Legiones Astartes in Star Wars verse.

[Tyzuris]

Basically a decade before The Phantom Menace, all Legiones Aatartes are transported to Star Wars verse to either Wild Space or Unknown Territories along with all the worlds they need for logistical support.

Assume this is a few years after Horus becoming Warmaster.

How will Horus and his brothers shape the fate of the SW galaxy?

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Millions upon millions of Astartes, led by their Primarchs, would overrun the Galaxy in a matter of decades. There's a reason the Legiones Astartes almost brought the 30k Galaxy to heel.

 

[Skallagrim]

Depends on how you interpret the setting.

If you actually look at what SW weapons can do, and to what extent SW shields can withstand those weapons, you come to the conclusion that SW is ludicrously over-powered compared to most other settings. It's been calculated that a single X-wing would be able to take on the Enterprise, for instance, and destroy it with ease.

I'm not an expert on 40K, but I think it's canonical that their bolters are more powerful than their lasguns. Or, approaching that the other way around: their energy weapons are weaker than high-grade kinetic weapons. But those kinetic weapons are a joke when faced with SW energy shields, just as anything 40K's Imperium has defensively is a joke compared to the SW energy weapons. That is: SW capital ships can easily Base Delta Zero any of the Imperium's planets, while the Imperium's weaponry won't even be able to penetrate the shielding of those SW ships. Meanwhile, the Imperium's methods of Exterminatus don't stand a chance of penetrating the planetary defences that even a lot of minor worlds in the SW setting possess.

The disparity is simply staggering. This isn't touching on the fact that the Warp doesn't exist in SW, so they can only move at sublight, whereas the hyperspace-capable SW ships can cross the galaxy in mere weeks (if not days).

Now, if you ignore the fridge logic of what SW weapons can demonstrably do (and how powerful they -- and, by comparison, all shielding -- must really be), and instead assume that the weapons of both settings are roughly of equal power... and that the Astartes magically get hyperdrive for all their ships... then I think an organised legion of super-soldiers, which is already extremely experienced, will over-run the complacent Galactic Republic within a very short span of time.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

An Astartes pattern bolter is a hell of a lot more than a simple kinetic weapon (and just because it's kinetic, doesn't mean it's inferior). It fires rocket propelled explosive rounds that tear apart Daemons. A Stormtrooper, a far better armoured soldier than what's around before Phantom Menace, would explode into red mist from a direct hit.

The lasgun meanwhile, punches a fist sized hole through its target and can turn a human head to liquid flesh with one or two shots. It is a genuine laser weapon and probably one of the finest small arms in sci-fi, whilst the blaster seems to be some kind of plasma gun.

Imperial warships can also engage at far greater range with lance batteries, nova cannons and the like. They are also coated in armour and layer upon layer of void shielding that they can recycle through. Whilst warp travel would be near impossible in the Star Wars galaxy, once a hyperdrive is captured and the various superhuman geniuses of the 30k Imperium reverse engineer it, they'd advance across the galaxy very quickly.

 

[ATP]

Basically a decade before The Phantom Menace, all Legiones Aatartes are transported to Star Wars verse to either Wild Space or Unknown Territories along with all the worlds they need for logistical support.

Assume this is a few years after Horus becoming Warmaster.

How will Horus and his brothers shape the fate of the SW galaxy?

That depend on :
1.how quickly they would get hyperdrive and copy it.
2.How good SW schields and weapons are compared to WH30 ones.

But If WH40 was better or even only as good as SW,and they manage copy hiperdrives quickly,Galactic is theirs.

P.S Poor Chaos gods,they worked so hard to get half of Astartes - and now they have nothing.
Becouse Emprah could re-create Astartes,and Chaos could only corrupt them.Which need Corrupting Primarhs first,which now is impossible.
WH40 would be nicer place with stronger IoM as a result.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Depends on how you interpret the setting.

If you actually look at what SW weapons can do, and to what extent SW shields can withstand those weapons, you come to the conclusion that SW is ludicrously over-powered compared to most other settings. It's been calculated that a single X-wing would be able to take on the Enterprise, for instance, and destroy it with ease.

I'm not an expert on 40K, but I think it's canonical that their bolters are more powerful than their lasguns. Or, approaching that the other way around: their energy weapons are weaker than high-grade kinetic weapons. But those kinetic weapons are a joke when faced with SW energy shields, just as anything 40K's Imperium has defensively is a joke compared to the SW energy weapons. That is: SW capital ships can easily Base Delta Zero any of the Imperium's planets, while the Imperium's weaponry won't even be able to penetrate the shielding of those SW ships. Meanwhile, the Imperium's methods of Exterminatus don't stand a chance of penetrating the planetary defences that even a lot of minor worlds in the SW setting possess.

The disparity is simply staggering. This isn't touching on the fact that the Warp doesn't exist in SW, so they can only move at sublight, whereas the hyperspace-capable SW ships can cross the galaxy in mere weeks (if not days).

Now, if you ignore the fridge logic of what SW weapons can demonstrably do (and how powerful they -- and, by comparison, all shielding -- must really be), and instead assume that the weapons of both settings are roughly of equal power... and that the Astartes magically get hyperdrive for all their ships... then I think an organised legion of super-soldiers, which is already extremely experienced, will over-run the complacent Galactic Republic within a very short span of time.

Yes yes if you engage in thirty years of cherrypicking and ignoring all the low showings of star wars they can do just about anything. It took ten years on spacebattles to pummel the warsies into their final and inevitable submission, dont start the doomed conflict again now.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Yes yes if you engage in thirty years of cherrypicking and ignoring all the low showings of star wars they can do just about anything. It took ten years on spacebattles to pummel the warsies into their final and inevitable submission, dont start the doomed conflict again now.

Don't get me wrong, Star Wars Legends has some impressive feats, but it just cannot stand up to the raw concentrated might of the Imperium of Man. No faction in 40k can do this, indeed the only reason they endure is because the Emperor's domains are beset on all sides. This isn't even that ancient empire, this is the 30k Imperium, one of the strongest factions in Sci-fi.

I wasn't aware of the storied history of spacebattles debates. Sounds vaguely entertaining from a distance.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Don't get me wrong, Star Wars Legends has some impressive feats

Thats the thing no fan will ever tell you about their pet setting, wether they're talking about superman or their weebshit waifu or Star Wars or, for that matter, 40k, is all the hundreds or even thousands of "low end" feats from the setting that show it embarrassingly without the "commonly accepted" power levels.


The only enlightened way to view "power scale" in settings in my opinion is to accept that they're inconsistent, and engage only in friendly, good faith discussions about these issues with people willing to accept your presuppositions. Antagonistic VS debates are fundamentally self defeating when one description has a standard bolt hit having effects in excess of real world artillery shells and another has a marine drop half a fucking magazine into a dead ork boy he's standing on top of and there still being a body afterwards. You simply have to be dealing with someone willing to ignore some of what they know for the benefit of having a conversation about your preferred vision of the setting in question.

 

[Skallagrim]

Yes yes if you engage in thirty years of cherrypicking and ignoring all the low showings of star wars they can do just about anything. It took ten years on spacebattles to pummel the warsies into their final and inevitable submission, dont start the doomed conflict again now.

That's a bit of a weird response, considering that my post actually pointed out that it depends on how you choose to compare stuff.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

That's a bit of a weird response, considering that my post actually pointed out that it depends on how you choose to compare stuff.

Yes with a tremendous slant towards one interpretation being more evidenced and reasonable.

 

[Skallagrim]

Yes with a tremendous slant towards one interpretation being more evidenced and reasonable.

That's how you choose to read it. You decry "antagonism", but my post wasn't antagonistic towards anyone. You're being way more belligerent ("pummel the warsies into their final and inevitable submission"). So... relax a bit. I've got no quarrel with you.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Thats the thing no fan will ever tell you about their pet setting, wether they're talking about superman or their weebshit waifu or Star Wars or, for that matter, 40k, is all the hundreds or even thousands of "low end" feats from the setting that show it embarrassingly without the "commonly accepted" power levels.

When you have multiple writers for a single setting, working without a codified lore, inconsistency is semi-unavoidable I suppose. Turbo lasers for example have gone from vapourising asteroids to having the explosive yield of hand grenades. It's probably good to find a middle ground between preposterously low end feats and preposterously high end feats.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

That's how you choose to read it. You decry "antagonism", but my post wasn't antagonistic towards anyone. You're being way more belligerent ("pummel the warsies into their final and inevitable submission"). So... relax a bit. I've got no quarrel with you.

Oh dont ever let it be said I decry antagonism or belligerence in general, I just understand that approaching VS debates from the usual perspective is self defeating. I'm certainly not suggesting people shouldn't be aggressive and rude and pummel their interlocutors into the digital pavement, just that aggression in one specific mode is useless.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

When you have multiple writers for a single setting, working without a codified lore, inconsistency is semi-unavoidable I suppose. Turbo lasers for example have gone from vapourising asteroids to having the explosive yield of hand grenades. It's probably good to find a middle ground between preposterously low end feats and preposterously high end feats.

This idea also evolved on spacebattles so I know exactly where it leads. See what happens when you argue that we should all try to find "middle grounds" is that everyone just calls what they already thought to be the only reasonable interpretation the Middle Ground and shrieks endlessly that everyone else is being unreasonable and hyperbolic. You're right back to square one. Moreover middle can be a somewhat opaque term, is the middle between a gun that either blows up a planet or is stopped by a banana blowing up half a planet? All you know for sure is that the answer you've chosen is definitely *not* correct. The other two are "correct", they just cant exist in the same universe.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

This idea also evolved on spacebattles so I know exactly where it leads. See what happens when you argue that we should all try to find "middle grounds" is that everyone just calls what they already thought to be the only reasonable interpretation the Middle Ground and shrieks endlessly that everyone else is being unreasonable and hyperbolic. You're right back to square one. Moreover middle can be a somewhat opaque term, is the middle between a gun that either blows up a planet or is stopped by a banana blowing up half a planet? All you know for sure is that the answer you've chosen is definitely *not* correct. The other two are "correct", they just cant exist in the same universe.

Then it occurs to me that we need to rather than find any middle ground, find a consistent way of comparing things...or at least find a consistent way of comparing things in a thread. It is probably best to apply the same standards so that we can compare like to like, so we don't have guys with flashlights and t-shirts fighting magical space knights who can destroy things with their mind. Or guys in useless plastic armour who couldn't hit something in front of their face fighting against transhuman supersoldiers who can dance across the battlefield in the time it takes you to blink. It should be like against like. So on the low end it would be guys in t-shirts vs guys who cannot hit the broadside of the barn. And then at the high end you get your pure bullshit vs bullshit.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Then it occurs to me that we need to rather than find any middle ground, find a consistent way of comparing things...or at least find a consistent way of comparing things in a thread. It is probably best to apply the same standards so that we can compare like to like, so we don't have guys with flashlights and t-shirts fighting magical space knights who can destroy things with their mind. Or guys in useless plastic armour who couldn't hit something in front of their face fighting against transhuman supersoldiers who can dance across the battlefield in the time it takes you to blink. It should be like against like. So on the low end it would be guys in t-shirts vs guys who cannot hit the broadside of the barn. And then at the high end you get your pure bullshit vs bullshit.

Problem being "consistent" means that every single debate turns into a thesis level statistics analysis in which no one who has not studied every single line and frame of all the settings involved can even participate on either side, because your opponent will simply conceal anything from you that doesn't support their "side" so that whatever they believe to be true will seem "consistent".

 

[Navarro]

Generally the consensus is that the GFFA and IoM are generally equiv. on the tactical level, and 40k has the edge on ground combat.

 

[Navarro]

Depends on how you interpret the setting.

If you actually look at what SW weapons can do, and to what extent SW shields can withstand those weapons, you come to the conclusion that SW is ludicrously over-powered compared to most other settings. It's been calculated that a single X-wing would be able to take on the Enterprise, for instance, and destroy it with ease.

I'm not an expert on 40K, but I think it's canonical that their bolters are more powerful than their lasguns. Or, approaching that the other way around: their energy weapons are weaker than high-grade kinetic weapons.

A lasgun is a pulse laser equivalent to a high-caliber bullet, a bolter is an assault rifle that fires armour-piercing rockets.

But those kinetic weapons are a joke when faced with SW energy shields,

Which would be fine if the majority of SW personnel and equipment were shielded ... oh wait, they aren't. Also, most SW shields don't block kinetic impacts at all IIRC.

[/quote]just as anything 40K's Imperium has defensively is a joke compared to the SW energy weapons.[/quote]

40k has personal forcefields, powered armour, and powered armour equipped with personal forcefields. I would rather be clad in Tactical Dreadnought Armour facing a blaster than stormtrooper gear facing a bolter personally.

That is: SW capital ships can easily Base Delta Zero any of the Imperium's planets, while the Imperium's weaponry won't even be able to penetrate the shielding of those SW ships.

40k yields are approximately equal to SW ones in space - maybe a bit higher.

Meanwhile, the Imperium's methods of Exterminatus don't stand a chance of penetrating the planetary defences that even a lot of minor worlds in the SW setting possess.

It doesn't take special equipment to carry out an Exterminatus. The specific exterminatus methods talked about (one of which is literally just "fire a missile with enough sheer gigatonnage to either lifewipe the planet or even deathstar it") just take less effort and time than doing it manually (in fact, conventional bombardment from 40k fleets has been shown to mass-scatter planets, something which has never happened in SW canon so far as I can tell).

The Imperium has plenty of high-yield weapons - I mean, we have canon examples of 40k having gigaton-yield missiles used in space warfare, and Star Destroyer orbital bombardments being inferior to WW2 artillery barrages:

 

[CarlManvers2019]

They can’t be at war the whole time

I presume they will need resources and recruits to replenish their ranks

They will also basically be telling large numbers of humans to murder their alien friends and neighbors, though from what I can understand how genocidal they are can vary

Regardless of their power, it’s still an entire galactic civilization they’ll be fighting

 

[Lord Sovereign]

The Imperium of the 31st millennium would be pleasantly surprised by the aliens of Star Wars. For example, Warmaster Horus would be more than happy to be chummy with the Chiss. One of the reasons the Imperium is so xenophobic is because the aliens of that universe are shit heads to a man, which is not a condition of the Star Wars Galaxy. Wookies are not Orks, they can be reasoned with.