Leftist Child Grooming

[LordsFire]

That's not really news; every denomination thinks the others are all heretics.

...Not even remotely close. Aside from tiny spin-off denominations and the dying 'old protestant' denominations that have been overrun by wokeists, Christian denominations generally regard each other as 'you've got some details wrong, but the core correct.'

Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, E-Free, CRC, Catholics, Coptics, what Anglicans/Episcopalians that aren't wokeists, generally all regard each other as fellow Christians.

There's some far harsher disunity about how Biblical theology and morality applies to politics, but that's a somewhat different matter. There's plenty of things that Christians can and do get into arguments with each other about, but the core doctrines are generally not among them.

The difference is interpretation, I think. It also doesn't help that the original Bible has been translated, mistranslated, and translated again numerous times throughout history, like a game of Chinese Whispers: The core messages and meanings are there, but things change or are altered.

This is showing ignorance about the history of the Bible as a document.

The standards for creating copies were absurdly rigid, and after the recovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we know that the direct textual integrity over the course of ~1700 years from when they came was something like 98%. There is literally no other historical document remotely as well-substantiated as the Bible.

 

[Morphic Tide]

Of course, that's once the canonization settled a few centuries after the fact. With literary near-redundancy from a line of differing transcriptions in the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke, to much argument of exactly where the differences were drawn from.

 

[Bacle]

Of course, that's once the canonization settled a few centuries after the fact. With literary near-redundancy from a line of differing transcriptions in the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke, to much argument of exactly where the differences were drawn from.

This also ignores that Christianity itself is part of of a larger canon the Abrahamic faiths, some older than Christianity but still persistent, and that the Abrahamic faiths borrowed a lot of stuff from the Greco-Roman pantheon and reskinned it.

Examples I can think of off the top or my head are Sampson being a reskinned Hercules, and thus everything involving Sampson being connected to the greater Hercules mythology inside the Greco-Roman mythology. The Philistine's were likely another name for the Phoeneceans and that whole branch of old world mythology.

Where as the Greeks and Romans had reskinned some older faiths from the time of Ur; Venus/Aphrodite being a reskinned Ishtar for example brings in the whole Epic of Gilgamesh mythology into the mix.

So really, the question of how far back one wants to peel the onion of the origins of many parts of the Judeo-Christian canon, and compare it to the 'heathen' culture's before it and that existed along side it for many generations. The ties between Christmas and the old Nordic Yule traditions, the many times Christianity coopt'd local symbols or customs to make converstion easier.

Add in the use as a weather/space-weather record mixed into the canon; Sodom and Gamorrah probably got flattened by a Tunguska type fireball airburst, Biblical Flood was likely the Burckle Crater Tsunami event(s), and the 12 Plagues of Egypt are likely the aftermath of several large volcanic events in relatively close proximity and timing in the Med and Africa.

The Judeo-Christian canon, and all the down-stream and up-stream mythologies around it, completely aside from any moral lessons or religious dogma, is a very neat psuedo-historical record of many things in the human environment that get skipped over in churches a lot, but which weather, space weather, and volcanic researchers are paying more and more attention to as a way to coorelate new findings or discoveries in the natural historical fossil/climatic record.

Edited to correct which Mesopotamian god I was referencing.

 

[DarthOne]

This also ignores that Christianity itself is part of of a larger canon the Abrahamic faiths, some older than Christianity but still persistent, and that the Abrahamic faiths borrowed a lot of stuff from the Greco-Roman pantheon and reskinned it.

Examples I can think of off the top or my head are Sampson being a reskinned Hercules, and thus everything involving Sampson being connected to the greater Hercules mythology inside the Greco-Roman mythology. The Philistine's were likely another name for the Phoeneceans and that whole branch of old world mythology.

Where as the Greeks and Romans had reskinned some older faiths from the time of Ur; Venus being a reskinned Enkidu for example brings in the whole Epic of Gilgamesh mythology into the mix.

So really, the question of how far back one wants to peel the onion of the origins of many parts of the Judeo-Christian canon, and compare it to the 'heathen' culture's before it and that existed along side it for many generations. The ties between Christmas and the old Nordic Yule traditions, the many times Christianity coopt'd local symbols or customs to make converstion easier.

Add in the use as a weather/space-weather record mixed into the canon; Sodom and Gamorrah probably got flattened by a Tunguska type fireball airburst, Biblical Flood was likely the Burckle Crater Tsunami event(s), and the 12 Plagues of Egypt are likely the aftermath of several large volcanic events in relatively close proximity and timing in the Med and Africa.

The Judeo-Christian canon, and all the down-stream and up-stream mythologies around it, completely aside from any moral lessons or religious dogma, is a very neat psuedo-historical record of many things in the human environment that get skipped over in churches a lot, but which weather, space weather, and volcanic researchers are paying more and more attention to as a way to coorelate new findings or discoveries in the natural historical fossil/climatic record.

-Bzzzt- Wrong.

@S'task, mind weighing in on this? As I have little doubt you can counter this nonsense in more detail then I can.

 

[Bacle]

-Bzzzt- Wrong.

@S'task, mind weighing in on this? As I have little doubt you can counter this nonsense in more detail then I can.


Or @LordsFire

Venus/Aphrodite may the oldest god of the Indo-European pantheon.

About the Flood Myth(s).



A lot of the Genesis myth is older than Christianity too.

 

[Abhorsen]

I’d make ‘a suddenly, one day, for no reason whatsoever…’ comment but it would be rather tasteless.

So depending on how Germany does this, an insane asylum could be a lot better than a conviction. Generally, you can get locked in one forever, and for a non-lethal crime, that's better than the alternative. IDK about Germany specifically, but I know in the US, prison is usually better than an asylum.

 

[S'task]

Examples I can think of off the top or my head are Sampson being a reskinned Hercules, and thus everything involving Sampson being connected to the greater Hercules mythology inside the Greco-Roman mythology. The Philistine's were likely another name for the Phoeneceans and that whole branch of old world mythology.

Whoever told you this isn't familiar with the origin of either work. Modern scholar date the codification of both the Book of Judges, which the story of Sampson is taken from, and the 12 Labors to the 6th Century BC. Given the geographic distance between Greece and Israel, I doubt they were drawing on each other's stories, further, there's archeological evidence appearing to reference the story of Sampson dating back to the 12th Century BC.

While there are certainly similarities, they only really share one specific one in common (slaying a lion bare handed) and, well, given that a lion has long been an example of a powerful and dangerous beast to slay that is common to the entire region, I don't find it very convincing that two heroic figures shared that particular heroic act.

Where as the Greeks and Romans had reskinned some older faiths from the time of Ur; Venus/Aphrodite being a reskinned Enkidu for example brings in the whole Epic of Gilgamesh mythology into the mix.

. . . OK, I know what you MEANT to say, but for the love of all myths and legends please actually double check your mythological names because if I wasn't familiar with the mythology you are citing I would just post that "Enkidu" has jack shit all to do with Aphrodite being both not a god and not female and thus dismiss your entire argument whole cloth just because you got a name wrong.

Firstly, Enkidu is a heroic male warrior and figure that falls closer in line with Sampson and Heracles than with any deity.

Who you meant to cite was Inanna, better known to most as Ishtar, but they didn't reskin her. None of the myths or stories concerning Aphrodite are shared with Inanna, rather, they were deities that had, to borrow the DnD terms, a similar portfolio and were described in similar manners to such that when they encountered each other they decided that Inanna and Aphrodite were the same thing in a process known as syncretism.

There have been many attempts to claim Jewish religious beliefs were syncretic of other faiths, but there's actually very little evidence of it, and in fact there's strong evidence that ancient Judaism explicitly rejected such attempts. For instance, to use your own example, Inanna is often considered to be the same as the Canaanite deity Astarte otherwise known as Ashtoreth, who's worship is explicitly condemned in the Bible:

For Solomon became a follower of Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and of Milcom the abhorrent idol of the Ammonites. So Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the Lord, and did not follow the Lord fully, as his father David had done.

While there have been attempts to claim the ancient Israeli monotheistic religion is some weird offshoot of the local polytheistic ones, with YWHW being associated with a variety of "Kings of the Gods" or creator deities, most scholars depend not on solid evidence but linguistic similarities in names and their own faith that Judaism MUST be evolved from earlier religions and mythology.

 

[mrttao]

California Lavatory Goes Viral For Men's Room Having Nicer Tampon Dispenser Than Women's Room

Imagine trying to explain this to someone 20 years ago.

notthebee.com

The men's bathroom has a nice fancy tampon dispenser
The women's bathroom has a couple of tampons sitting on the counter next to the sink

 

[Zachowon]

Isn't linguistically the only thing we have to go on a word meaning gods in relation to what was being talked about. Potentially due ti being so early in the Bible thus early religious texts

 

[Jormungandr]

Whoever told you this isn't familiar with the origin of either work. Modern scholar date the codification of both the Book of Judges, which the story of Sampson is taken from, and the 12 Labors to the 6th Century BC. Given the geographic distance between Greece and Israel, I doubt they were drawing on each other's stories, further, there's archeological evidence appearing to reference the story of Sampson dating back to the 12th Century BC.

While there are certainly similarities, they only really share one specific one in common (slaying a lion bare handed) and, well, given that a lion has long been an example of a powerful and dangerous beast to slay that is common to the entire region, I don't find it very convincing that two heroic figures shared that particular heroic act.


. . . OK, I know what you MEANT to say, but for the love of all myths and legends please actually double check your mythological names because if I wasn't familiar with the mythology you are citing I would just post that "Enkidu" has jack shit all to do with Aphrodite being both not a god and not female and thus dismiss your entire argument whole cloth just because you got a name wrong.

Firstly, Enkidu is a heroic male warrior and figure that falls closer in line with Sampson and Heracles than with any deity.

Who you meant to cite was Inanna, better known to most as Ishtar, but they didn't reskin her. None of the myths or stories concerning Aphrodite are shared with Inanna, rather, they were deities that had, to borrow the DnD terms, a similar portfolio and were described in similar manners to such that when they encountered each other they decided that Inanna and Aphrodite were the same thing in a process known as syncretism.

There have been many attempts to claim Jewish religious beliefs were syncretic of other faiths, but there's actually very little evidence of it, and in fact there's strong evidence that ancient Judaism explicitly rejected such attempts. For instance, to use your own example, Inanna is often considered to be the same as the Canaanite deity Astarte otherwise known as Ashtoreth, who's worship is explicitly condemned in the Bible:


While there have been attempts to claim the ancient Israeli monotheistic religion is some weird offshoot of the local polytheistic ones, with YWHW being associated with a variety of "Kings of the Gods" or creator deities, most scholars depend not on solid evidence but linguistic similarities in names and their own faith that Judaism MUST be evolved from earlier religions and mythology.

IIRC, Aphrodite is believed to ultimately the result of a cult's centuries' long island hopping from the Mesopotamian goddess -- I'm not sure if it were Ishtar or Astarte or if Ishtar became Astarte, though?

Basically, the cult in ancient Canaan spread to Cyprus, and the ancient Cypriots either merged that goddess with an existing goddess of theirs, or the branch of the cult on the island changed over time into something distinctive; eventually, this mutated cult reached Mycenaean Greece, spread, and by then this goddess was adopted as the first incarnation of Aphrodite (Protodite).

One goddess mutated to become another, and that mutant became the predecessor to Classical Aphrodite.

Cue the Bronze Age Collapse, and Protodite over time became the Aphrodite we know and love from Classical Greece (except in Sparta, where she was revered as a goddamn war goddess of all things).

On a side note, Artemis was originally a mountain spring goddess from, IIRC, Thrace or Eastern Europe: It was only later that she was adopted as the Artemis we know of in Classical Greek myth.

 

[Bacle]

Whoever told you this isn't familiar with the origin of either work. Modern scholar date the codification of both the Book of Judges, which the story of Sampson is taken from, and the 12 Labors to the 6th Century BC. Given the geographic distance between Greece and Israel, I doubt they were drawing on each other's stories, further, there's archeological evidence appearing to reference the story of Sampson dating back to the 12th Century BC.

While there are certainly similarities, they only really share one specific one in common (slaying a lion bare handed) and, well, given that a lion has long been an example of a powerful and dangerous beast to slay that is common to the entire region, I don't find it very convincing that two heroic figures shared that particular heroic act.

I think the Greeks and Israelite's probably had a lot of cross pollination between the too groups, and I think they are reskinning of the same story.

. . . OK, I know what you MEANT to say, but for the love of all myths and legends please actually double check your mythological names because if I wasn't familiar with the mythology you are citing I would just post that "Enkidu" has jack shit all to do with Aphrodite being both not a god and not female and thus dismiss your entire argument whole cloth just because you got a name wrong.

Firstly, Enkidu is a heroic male warrior and figure that falls closer in line with Sampson and Heracles than with any deity.

Who you meant to cite was Inanna, better known to most as Ishtar, but they didn't reskin her. None of the myths or stories concerning Aphrodite are shared with Inanna, rather, they were deities that had, to borrow the DnD terms, a similar portfolio and were described in similar manners to such that when they encountered each other they decided that Inanna and Aphrodite were the same thing in a process known as syncretism.

Ok, I mixed up Ishtar and Enkidu; for some reason I had thought Enkidu was female. Probably some Fate-series influence there confusing my memory.

There have been many attempts to claim Jewish religious beliefs were syncretic of other faiths, but there's actually very little evidence of it, and in fact there's strong evidence that ancient Judaism explicitly rejected such attempts. For instance, to use your own example, Inanna is often considered to be the same as the Canaanite deity Astarte otherwise known as Ashtoreth, who's worship is explicitly condemned in the Bible:


While there have been attempts to claim the ancient Israeli monotheistic religion is some weird offshoot of the local polytheistic ones, with YWHW being associated with a variety of "Kings of the Gods" or creator deities, most scholars depend not on solid evidence but linguistic similarities in names and their own faith that Judaism MUST be evolved from earlier religions and mythology.

Pre-monotheistic proto-Jewish culture had more than one god in it, and the pantheon's of the day did a lot of borrowing and reskinning.

Phillistine's being another name for the Phoenician's, and being tied to both Greco-Roman mythology and Jewish mythology is very reasonable, given how widely spread Phoenicians around the Med, and how much contact they had with the varied cultures.

There is a reason so many of the old myths kept getting reskinned and renamed, instead of brand new mythologies showing up.

 

[Husky_Khan]

IIRC, Aphrodite is believed to ultimately the result of a cult's centuries' long island hopping from the Mesopotamian goddess -- I'm not sure if it were Ishtar or Astarte or if Ishtar became Astarte, though?

Basically, the cult in ancient Canaan spread to Cyprus, and the ancient Cypriots either merged that goddess with an existing goddess of theirs, or the branch of the cult on the island changed over time into something distinctive; eventually, this mutated cult reached Mycenaean Greece, spread, and by then this goddess was adopted as the first incarnation of Aphrodite (Protodite).

One goddess mutated to become another, and that mutant became the predecessor to Classical Aphrodite.

Cue the Bronze Age Collapse, and Protodite over time became the Aphrodite we know and love from Classical Greece (except in Sparta, where she was revered as a goddamn war goddess of all things).

On a side note, Artemis was originally a mountain spring goddess from, IIRC, Thrace or Eastern Europe: It was only later that she was adopted as the Artemis we know of in Classical Greek myth.

I apparently haven't checked this thread since Page 80 and was about to post some random news/ragebait story and when I come here I see everyone is having indepth discussions on religious history and mythology! 🙏

This is some good reading. Not sure how it relates to Leftist Child Grooming but I'm sure some mythological would be subjects of this thread if they're still lurking aboot...

 

[Jormungandr]

I apparently haven't checked this thread since Page 80 and was about to post some random news/ragebait story and when I come here I see everyone is having indepth discussions on religious history and mythology! 🙏

This is some good reading. Not sure how it relates to Leftist Child Grooming but I'm sure some mythological would be subjects of this thread if they're still lurking aboot...

Can't always be doom and gloom.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

That's not really news; every denomination thinks the others are all heretics.

While every denomination thinks its own interpretation is correct and that of every other denomination incorrect, *incorrect* does not generally equal *heresy*. Heresy is a very, very strong term that is not used lightly.

The strident extremist view that, “Anyone who disagrees with me on doctrinal matters that are important to me is a heretic!” is just that, strident extremism. It absolutely doesn’t reflect how the vast majority of Christians actually handle disagreements.

 

[Poe]

Pre-monotheistic proto-Jewish culture had more than one god in it, and the pantheon's of the day did a lot of borrowing and reskinning.

You're using terms all wrong. "Jewish" culture is simply Hebrew, you're likely referring to Canaanite (pre-Hebrew) culture. The words borrowing and reskinning are wrong, and also this culture is older the Greek one you are speaking about here anyway. Look it's not out the realm of possibility that Canaanite mythology influenced Greek but there's no good reason to assume that's what happened. But when you use terms like "proto-Jewish" to describe the polythiestic culture in the levant, and say they "did a lot of borrowing," it hints that you've been listening to the types of people (either athiest or anti-semitic) who use lots of baseless claims to "prove" the Israeli religion was totally made up and in that space there is a /ton/ of piss poor anthropology and /tons/ of seemingly made up archeological "facts."

Phillistine's being another name for the Phoenician's, and being tied to both Greco-Roman mythology and Jewish mythology is very reasonable, given how widely spread Phoenicians around the Med, and how much contact they had with the varied cultures.

The phillistines are an indo-european group widely thought to be related to Greeks, not Phoenicians who are Semites (relatives of the Hebrews/Canaanites.). At least that seems to be the consensus at the moment.

 

[Terthna]

Not really. While most denominations have disagreements there is a difference between minor doctrinal differences and heresy. Most churches believe that to be orthodox you have to accept the authority of the Bible as well as the content of the Apostles, Athanasian, and Nicene Creeds. Which were specifically made to differentiate true doctrine from heresy.

For instance while my church, the LCMS, considers Catholics and Baptists to be incorrect in some aspects they are still real Christians because they agree on the fundamental doctrine. As opposed to Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and woke churches who are heretics.

...Not even remotely close. Aside from tiny spin-off denominations and the dying 'old protestant' denominations that have been overrun by wokeists, Christian denominations generally regard each other as 'you've got some details wrong, but the core correct.'

Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, E-Free, CRC, Catholics, Coptics, what Anglicans/Episcopalians that aren't wokeists, generally all regard each other as fellow Christians.

There's some far harsher disunity about how Biblical theology and morality applies to politics, but that's a somewhat different matter. There's plenty of things that Christians can and do get into arguments with each other about, but the core doctrines are generally not among them.

While every denomination thinks its own interpretation is correct and that of every other denomination incorrect, *incorrect* does not generally equal *heresy*. Heresy is a very, very strong term that is not used lightly.

The strident extremist view that, “Anyone who disagrees with me on doctrinal matters that are important to me is a heretic!” is just that, strident extremism. It absolutely doesn’t reflect how the vast majority of Christians actually handle disagreements.

Perhaps I exaggerated a bit; but regardless, I think you all underestimate the scope of the divide between denominations. Probably because we're currently in a time of persecution directed against all Christians, which encourages more banding together than would otherwise exist.

 

[S'task]

Perhaps I exaggerated a bit; but regardless, I think you all underestimate the scope of the divide between denominations. Probably because we're currently in a time of persecution directed against all Christians, which encourages more banding together than would otherwise exist.

Even if you go back to, say, the 17th century when Christendom was at it's height you didn't see Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants throwing the term "Heresy" around against each other, nor did you see it used between the various Protestant sects. They used much stronger language than they do now, granted, and were much more hostile to each other, but "heretic" has an actual definition and it doesn't actually apply to the divisions between those three, the proper formal term to describe the division between them is "Schismatic", because they are Schisms in the Church. Heck, an avowed atheist or Muslim or Buddhist aren't even "heretics" in that and earlier eras. "Heretic" doesn't mean "does not believe the same as I", it's specifically reserved for people who supposedly are MEMBERS of a specific Church AND CLAIM TO BE MEMBERS but now believe / teach things that are considered seriously wrong or blasphemous to that Church.

 

[Terthna]

Even if you go back to, say, the 17th century when Christendom was at it's height you didn't see Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants throwing the term "Heresy" around against each other, nor did you see it used between the various Protestant sects. They used much stronger language than they do now, granted, and were much more hostile to each other, but "heretic" has an actual definition and it doesn't actually apply to the divisions between those three, the proper formal term to describe the division between them is "Schismatic", because they are Schisms in the Church. Heck, an avowed atheist or Muslim or Buddhist aren't even "heretics" in that and earlier eras. "Heretic" doesn't mean "does not believe the same as I", it's specifically reserved for people who supposedly are MEMBERS of a specific Church AND CLAIM TO BE MEMBERS but now believe / teach things that are considered seriously wrong or blasphemous to that Church.

This is one of those cases I think where what a word actually means academically, is less important than what it's used for in reality. You'll note that the post that started this tangent involved DarthOne using the word "heretic" at least in part to mean "does not believe the same as I".

 

[Jormungandr]

You're using terms all wrong. "Jewish" culture is simply Hebrew, you're likely referring to Canaanite (pre-Hebrew) culture. The words borrowing and reskinning are wrong, and also this culture is older the Greek one you are speaking about here anyway. Look it's not out the realm of possibility that Canaanite mythology influenced Greek but there's no good reason to assume that's what happened. But when you use terms like "proto-Jewish" to describe the polythiestic culture in the levant, and say they "did a lot of borrowing," it hints that you've been listening to the types of people (either athiest or anti-semitic) who use lots of baseless claims to "prove" the Israeli religion was totally made up and in that space there is a /ton/ of piss poor anthropology and /tons/ of seemingly made up archeological "facts."

The phillistines are an indo-european group widely thought to be related to Greeks, not Phoenicians who are Semites (relatives of the Hebrews/Canaanites.). At least that seems to be the consensus at the moment.

Canaanite culture spread all over the place in that ancient era: There are zero doubts it influenced the "Ancient Greek World" directly or indirectly because it influenced pretty much everything else (except Rome, but that's because it didn't exist back then, but then they basically stole the Greeks' shit, so... shrug).

Many of the Ancient Greeks' divine creation myths (basically religious "prehistory" to their existing religions and cults) are much pretty much retellings of or are adapted ancient Canaanite religious stories, concepts, and various deities' roles, IIRC, such as floods, Chaos, et cetera which were passed down.

The ancient Mediterranean was a very different place before the Bronze Age Collapse, that's for certain!

Also, one thing I've noticed is that if someone is investigating or subscribes to the theory that Judaism basically mutated from an older, polytheistic religion in the Middle-East (such as the aforementioned Canaanites), which is possible it basically happens all the damn time and there are links, they're automatically called anti-Semitic or "trying to destroy or discredit the Jews". smh

While there are people out there who no doubt do this because they do have an anti-Semitic agenda, not everyone is like those people with those motivations; debating and discussing are not anti-semitic just because the subject matter is... tricky; don't use it as a "buzzword" of sorts, which I've seen a lot of people use as a card.

 

[DarthOne]

Even if you go back to, say, the 17th century when Christendom was at it's height you didn't see Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants throwing the term "Heresy" around against each other, nor did you see it used between the various Protestant sects. They used much stronger language than they do now, granted, and were much more hostile to each other, but "heretic" has an actual definition and it doesn't actually apply to the divisions between those three, the proper formal term to describe the division between them is "Schismatic", because they are Schisms in the Church. Heck, an avowed atheist or Muslim or Buddhist aren't even "heretics" in that and earlier eras. "Heretic" doesn't mean "does not believe the same as I", it's specifically reserved for people who supposedly are MEMBERS of a specific Church AND CLAIM TO BE MEMBERS but now believe / teach things that are considered seriously wrong or blasphemous to that Church.

Yeah, I made a mistake with that comment earlier. My apologies.