I may loath many things about Christianity and its history, but the simple allowance of social dissolution from greed and apathy still saddens me.
We’re not dead yet.
I may loath many things about Christianity and its history, but the simple allowance of social dissolution from greed and apathy still saddens me.
What you just said was incredibly silly. You have this new atheism streak and you don't understand that the spread of your ideals weakened western society. Humans need faith, here is an example of someone else bringing up an exampleSorry for the late replies; to say life has been hectic is an understatement (also, having a dozen or so kittens equates a destructive force of nature. I can't believe how much they shit in litter trays. Seriously!).
I admit I didn't consider the "ready made networks" that being a member of a religion gives access to, such as social networks, and I do agree that the Bible has some good lessons as per any work of fiction like folk tales... but you can also build the same sort of networks independently without being religious, and people (including myself) have been doing that just fine all our lives (take this very sites, for example).
Also, being religious, in my book at least, is actually believing in/having faith in the religion you're part of (e.g. if Christian, you genuinely believe in God, Christ, and everything else, even if you think the Bible itself is more of a 'loose guide' or as realistic as Harry Potter (such as with hot topics like evolution versus 'creationism').
I suppose you could be, for example, considered a Christian if you grew up in a religious household/community and followed their ways/morals (like what most of the current West is built on) but didn't actually believe in God/Christ/all that jazz, but that's more a societal thing than actually being a believer, but that leads into "being Christian in name only" and all that.
Anyway, the fundamental viewpoint that man was created by the Abrahamic God for the Abrahamic God is something I and others could never agree with because it relies on what is essentially "what if?" fears and faith with zero evidence/proof, and that Christianity (and other religions) themselves are works of fiction because of their origins.
If an angel, a real, Biblical angel, descended and everyone worldwide was shown that all that religious shit was real? Well, yeah, I and others like me (the sane ones, at least) would admit we were wrong and likely develop faith/belief. But I'm willing to bet my last pound that an angel will never appear because they don't exist.
But Christianity, and indeed every other religion, can be traced back to other religions like language families can be through historical evidence/archaeology. Hell, Christianity and Islam as we know it are the bastardized offspring of several other religions and cultures, especially Judaism... which in itself is a bastardized cult from ancient Fertile Crescent religions. It's all fiction.
Hell, I see parallels between new age cults, like Scientology, and Christianity in a world-building sense -- if Scientology were created a thousand years ago instead of in the modern day, there's zero doubt in my mind that it'd be considered a religion like Islam, Christianity, et cetera now. Mormonism, for example, barely got away with it around two hundred years or so back.
So when I see (typically Americans, so yes that stereotype about your culture is true) blab on about God and Christ being all they need as a solution for the world's ills like a magical cure all, it does make me roll me eyes because they're always not talking about Christian culture/networks but blind belief/faith in a Sky Fairy. They also bring such comments up out of the blue when the ongoing conversations have zero to do with with religion, as though they were winning arguments, statements, and uncontestable facts.
If such comments were just about sticking to Christian morals and attitudes, like not being a dick to your neighbour, not being a whore, not being a degenerate and having orgies in the middle of a street, I'd actually agree with them because that is (or was, considering the last depressing few decades) the norm for Western culture and society. It's what our civilization was basically built on with the foundations being from Greece and Rome, and someone doesn't need to believe in a Sky Fairy to abide by all this.
But they're not. It's almost always the above mentioned "cure all" Sky Fairy/faith, and believing that those who don't are subhuman in some way, and even when it is about culture than belief, the line is almost always blurred with Americans, which is why you've all gained a reputation for being religious nuts.
That is arrogance; not the guy/girl not believing in a Sky Fairy or that a book of fables is a book of facts.
If you are an atheist why do you care about groomers? See what I mean? How can you argue something is morally wrong? Atheism only logically leads to moral relativism. And under moral relativism as long as society survives there is no way to say it's "wrong" you can show societies where people did things that you don't like in your western culture and they haven't collapsed so it's obviously not that bad.Fucking groomer; not much else to say except "search his hard drives".
We’re not dead yet.
The CCP loves to do that when dealing with brits actually. Most of us though preffer to point out how Perfidious Albion fucked with the WW1 peace and set the stage for both WW2 and Cold War with their shit handling of the situation.
And the Industrial Revolution of course. Which has been a disaster for the human race.
Poland motto.We’re not dead yet.
The first Agricultural Revolution was the real mistake.
I'd take you seriously if Christian churches would keep the pedo problem out of the ranks of their very own priesthood better than the rest of society does.What you just said was incredibly silly. You have this new atheism streak and you don't understand that the spread of your ideals weakened western society. Humans need faith, here is an example of someone else bringing up an example
You see the person in the example @Bear Ribs brought up? People will still believe in moral absolutes and morality, it's just that they will have to make up their own bullshit.
This post is not arguing that Christianity is true(though it is) it is me arguing that atheism is bad and should be stamped down on, religions that have an afterlife and consequences in your action whether it's Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or whatever are incredibly useful for societal stability to make people have the same morality this will lead to unity instead of allowing things to fester like in the modern west.
When will you understand that it doesn't take religious beliefs to have convictions regarding how the society should be run? If nothing else, the existence of commies should be proof enough for ya.If you are an atheist why do you care about groomers? See what I mean? How can you argue something is morally wrong? Atheism only logically leads to moral relativism. And under moral relativism as long as society survives there is no way to say it's "wrong" you can show societies where people did things that you don't like in your western culture and they haven't collapsed so it's obviously not that bad.
Simbari people - Wikipedia
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You are as gullible as leftists. The Saudis would physically not exist in 10 years if the West decreed so.This this moral relativism is why atheism should be illegal and the Saudis are right when they made a law that said atheists are terrorists a few years ago. Saudis will never fall to that argument I just put about "muh moral relativism" They will have morality that is the same 1000 years ago is the same today, and will be the same 1000 years from now.
The clergy is significantly better than the overall body of teachers, but a few key scandals of blatantly closing ranks to cover several-times-over hypocritical crimes torpedoed the public perception.I'd take you seriously if Christian churches would keep the pedo problem out of the ranks of their very own priesthood better than the rest of society does
I really have to disagree with that. Prior to the agricultural revolution families had 10+ children because child mortality rates were extremely high, and famines (which weakened populations for disease) were all too common.
We aren’t perfect, but a middle class person in the west has more access to amenities and luxuries than medieval monarchs (spices, running water, comparatively miraculous medicine…)
Evidence indicates our ancestors needed about 3-4 hours/day to take care of basic needs (food, clothing, shelter, tools, &c). The rest was available to do whatever.Naw, we wuz better off as hunter-gatherers.
Evidence indicates our ancestors needed about 3-4 hours/day to take care of basic needs (food, clothing, shelter, tools, &c). The rest was available to do whatever.
Suppose they start their day at 6AM like someone with an 8-5 job and typical commute has to. They're done for the day before their modern counterpart gets to the 1st 15min break.
Eh... it really doesn't.Everything in life has tradeoffs our modern life takes a lot of work to maintain
What you just said is a mind numbingly dumb thing straight from the mouth of globohomo. As others have said priests have a lower child molestation rate than public school teachers, the reason it's so prominant is because the media is anti Christian and is actively working to weaken and undermine the Church.I'd take you seriously if Christian churches would keep the pedo problem out of the ranks of their very own priesthood better than the rest of society does.
Yes it does. Communism is a religion, with it's own prophet Marx, its own Bible the communist manifesto, it's own priesthood the communist party, and it's own saints Stalin, Mao, Trotsky, and Lenin. You could still have convictions without some ideology but at that point they are just your oppinion and you aren't God king so why the fuck should society care that you don't like drag queen story hour, or pride parades or people cutting their parts off?When will you understand that it doesn't take religious beliefs to have convictions regarding how the society should be run? If nothing else, the existence of commies should be proof enough for ya.
What is this "our western culture"? You do realize that it's not an actual thing that was united and actually had someone that could unify and order them to march in lockstep? Like the only time "western civilization" was a thing that you can say is unified was Rome, and when the Catholic Church had power. Because then they could get kicked out if they allied with an outside enemy. Talking about western culture now is like talking about Germanic, or Nordic, or Latin culture. You can use it in the sense that these are related peoples but again Holland while Germanic can tell Germany to fuck off.Yes, we have "our western culture", and unlike leftists we are willing and eager to tell other peoples that they can fuck off if they don't like it, and they can be made to fuck off in pieces if they refuse to fuck off in peace.
A lot of the "societies where people did things that you don't like in your western culture" suck to live in, merely surviving at the mercy often of said western society actively shielding them from interference by third world criminals and shit is not exactly an aspirational goal.
And moral relativism is just a teenage level argument to attack anyone's social rules.
You can use it to argue for leftist shit, you can also use it to argue that there's nothing wrong with machinegunning illegal immigrant boats and hanging leftists. It's absolute double edged sword of an argument, it can be used by anyone, against anyone.
Another part of the analogy is that being a sword, it's much better at destroying things than for building anything.
I'm not guillible you are either simply delusional, you are trying to hitch a ride to the "west" for pride or power. You say if the "west" decided to wipe out the Saudis they would be wiped out. Well tell me who is the west, who can decide to wipe out the Saudis? If Poland(who is part of what is generally called the west) said "let's wipe out the Saudis!" they would be told to shut up. Now if America did it yes it could happen(there might be consequences from China, Russia, or other western powers like France, Germany, and the UK. But the US is the strongest.You are as gullible as leftists. The Saudis would physically not exist in 10 years if the West decreed so.
Being dependent on the magnanimity of other powers is not exactly the golden standard for how to run a society.
If Chicoms were ruling the world, which they would be if the West disappeared, Saudis could well be awaiting the fate of Uyghurs, as Chairman Xi would decree that he has no need for unruly desert barbarians dwelling above China's destined oil reserves.
And yet both have a higher rate than the population average, so my point stands.What you just said is a mind numbingly dumb thing straight from the mouth of globohomo. As others have said priests have a lower child molestation rate than public school teachers, the reason it's so prominant is because the media is anti Christian and is actively working to weaken and undermine the Church.
Leftists have no destined monopoly on secularism, just like Islam has no inherent monopoly on theocratic crazy.But sure you go ahead and trust your greatest allies the western secular media who will be coming to cut off your sons cock and give him a bleeding "neo vagina"
Well if its a religion, then its not secularism, case closed.Yes it does. Communism is a religion, with it's own prophet Marx, its own Bible the communist manifesto, it's own priesthood the communist party, and it's own saints Stalin, Mao, Trotsky, and Lenin.
Because these things are done by retarded commie believers, ruining people, wasting resources and destroying societies. Doesn't take the order of a god-king to not do this as most societies in the world don't, or to do a myriad other things, and the commies have their own beliefs to not care about what my or your gods say or don't say, they care equally little.You could still have convictions without some ideology but at that point they are just your oppinion and you aren't God king so why the fuck should society care that you don't like drag queen story hour, or pride parades or people cutting their parts off?
Does it need to be marching in lockstep? Was it ever?What is this "our western culture"? You do realize that it's not an actual thing that was united and actually had someone that could unify and order them to march in lockstep?
Civilizations naturally contain multiple nations, which would by definition not march in lockstep, as they aren't unified and are sovereign.Like the only time "western civilization" was a thing that you can say is unified was Rome, and when the Catholic Church had power.
Yet it happened and if someone got kicked out it was usually about more spicy internal politics.Because then they could get kicked out if they allied with an outside enemy.
Civilization is a more general term than culture. For example Islamic Civilization contains both Arabs and Persians and they kinda hate each other, even have own sects of Islam that consider each other heretics.Talking about western culture now is like talking about Germanic, or Nordic, or Latin culture. You can use it in the sense that these are related peoples but again Holland while Germanic can tell Germany to fuck off.
I meant what i said. If most of it at least agreed on it, it could be done. The unlikely nature of it and practicalities of it left aside, irrelevant to my point.As for moral relativism destroying things yeah, as an atheist so what?
I'm not guillible you are either simply delusional, you are trying to hitch a ride to the "west" for pride or power. You say if the "west" decided to wipe out the Saudis they would be wiped out. Well tell me who is the west, who can decide to wipe out the Saudis? If Poland(who is part of what is generally called the west) said "let's wipe out the Saudis!" they would be told to shut up. Now if America did it yes it could happen(there might be consequences from China, Russia, or other western powers like France, Germany, and the UK. But the US is the strongest.
Being allies with the number one and part of the same civilization is different than mere manganimity. If Russia was the number one, this would be a different situation though.Also your argument that being dependant on the magnanimity of other powers is not the gold standard for how to run a society is funny, you are Polish again if America decreed it we could wipe out Poland just like Saudi Arabia. Does that mean Poland is worthless or something? I would say no it's not worthless saying if you are not number 1 you don't matter is stupid.
BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!Your last statement about China geocoding Saudis like they do the Uyghurs is also dumb, first off the West has historically engaged in the exact thing you are accusing your fantasy version of China of doing. Look at Africa, and the Americas.
The limits of imperial overstretch are dictated by organization, communications and transport technology available, rather than by some timeless, unchanging constant - by the time it takes to send orders, envoys, goods or armies from the center of the empire to its edges.Second even if China did become the sole hyperpower and the west got destroyed or whatever, no China would not go take everything over because they would overextend themselves and like every other empire just not do well.
Not popular among who? The Chinese would not care more than about the Uyghurs, and the opinion of the people being wiped out would be inherently disregarded.China would economically dominate those nations but launching invasions and wiping out the natives for settler colonialism is not popular now adays because there is not as much bennefit as there was before the modern world took off.
Christianity is actually inherently vulnerable to Commie infiltration, because nature of Christianity means that Christians are often too easy to guilt-trip into doing dumb shit.And yet both have a higher rate than the population average, so my point stands.
I'm not a public education idolizing leftist, but i will point out that both of these professions seem to be, for obvious reasons, attracting pedos, and doing a poor job of keeping them out, for less obvious reasons, which kinda rains on your point that religious belief is supposed to be oh so good at keeping them out. If even the Church can't do it in its own ranks, how can you say it's a solution to the problem outside of it?
Welp, now i guess you will need to say that the Church is anti-Christian and working to weaken and undermine the Church too, and i will have a hard time disagreeing with that statement.
Why? Because the Church, which was supposed, for reasons of its belief, an inherently unbreakable bulwark to commie infiltration, is also being successfully infiltrated by commies, it's just taking them a bit more time than with some other institutions. And i'm talking about the Catholic one, some smaller Churches, especially in Americas, are just pure Christianity fanfiction written by commies.
Christianity is actually inherently vulnerable to Commie infiltration, because nature of Christianity means that Christians are often too easy to guilt-trip into doing dumb shit.
I hate agreeing with Hitler, but in that at least he wasn't completely wrong. I have people in my own family who support Communist crap because they are trying too hard to be good Catholics.
Precisely. Humans cannot rely solely on heart or solely on mind. We are both and have to use both.some times you have to shut down that compasionate voice in your head and do what needs to be done, because there is real evil in this world that you can not reason with.
Delusional take. No priests don't have a higher rate of child abusers than the regular population. You are just sucking off atheist talking sources. First off we should compare apples to apples and not oranges. Now if we are forced to stick with Catholics instead of Orthodox then we should not compare priests to all men, but other celibate men.And yet both have a higher rate than the population average, so my point stands.
I'm not a public education idolizing leftist, but i will point out that both of these professions seem to be, for obvious reasons, attracting pedos, and doing a poor job of keeping them out, for less obvious reasons, which kinda rains on your point that religious belief is supposed to be oh so good at keeping them out. If even the Church can't do it in its own ranks, how can you say it's a solution to the problem outside of it?
Again are you delusional yes there are heretics, though communists have not infiltrated the Church except in the minds of lunatic trad larpers or people wanting to have their cake and support everything the establishment conservatives do yet not criticize any of it's policies, like rampant greed, uncritical support for Israel, not caring for the poor, etc.Welp, now i guess you will need to say that the Church is anti-Christian and working to weaken and undermine the Church too, and i will have a hard time disagreeing with that statement.
Why? Because the Church, which was supposed to be, for reasons of its belief, an inherently unbreakable bulwark to commie infiltration, is also being successfully infiltrated by commies, it's just taking them a bit more time than with some other institutions. And i'm talking about the Catholic one, some smaller Churches, especially in Americas, are just pure Christianity fanfiction written by commies.
I mean yes they do, secularism is the beggining of leftism.Leftists have no destined monopoly on secularism, just like Islam has no inherent monopoly on theocratic crazy.
Everyone has a religion, it is your deeply held beliefs. Secularism itself is a religion to both people harping on the Constitution and communism.Well if its a religion, then its not secularism, case closed.
Marx, Stalin, Trotsky and Mao weren't god kings either.
What a stupid take. Please explain how drag queen story hour is "communism" Define communism for me, it's not "everything I don't like!" Communism is a specefic evil, the Soviet Union did not have drag queen story hour, China does not have drag queen story hour. The woke liberals might have some things they adopted from communism, but no they aren't commies.Because these things are done by retarded commie believers, ruining people, wasting resources and destroying societies. Doesn't take the order of a god-king to not do this as most societies in the world don't, or to do a myriad other things, and the commies have their own beliefs to not care about what my or your gods say or don't say, they care equally little.
They can be very fluid, and it's all just politics in the end. Because western civilization used to be just Greeks, then Rome. Then it was defined as Europe that was descended from Roman laws/civilization married with the Western Christian faith(aka Catholics) as opposed to eastern Christianity, sometimes west is Christianity+Roman law (which would include eastern Christians like Russians) when opposed by Islam. Logically the protestant nations should not be seen as western under the first definition which is catholic. Yet they are, also politics play a role as Latin America operates under a quasi western aegis, so does Saudi Arabia and is our ally. Hell in the cold war you were not western as Poland was part of Warsaw pact. Also you've also engaged in these silly things before by defining Israel as western. Hell I think you even said fucking Japan is western.Civilizations naturally contain multiple nations, which would by definition not march in lockstep, as they aren't unified and are sovereign.
Hell, even when Catholic Church had power plenty of kings fought, some even fought against the Church or eventually made their own. Civilization is a looser qualification than culture or nation, it contains many of the latter - much like Ancient Greek civilization contained Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Corinth and many other sovereign polities with somewhat different customs, cultures and so on.
Yes, but you should only use those terms if you are being academic instead of engaging in political rhetoric.Civilization is a more general term than culture. For example Islamic Civilization contains both Arabs and Persians and they kinda hate each other, even have own sects of Islam that consider each other heretics.
Same arguments apply to Asian civilization(Japan, China, Korea) vs Poland by itself. It's a meaningless statement.I meant what i said. If most of it at least agreed on it, it could be done. The unlikely nature of it and practicalities of it left aside, irrelevant to my point.
It's not mere magnanimity though? It's an alliance, perhaps it's one the west should end but it's not out of the kindness of our heart.Being allies with the number one and part of the same civilization is different than mere manganimity. If Russia was the number one, this would be a different situation though.
If USA took the road of Taliban larping some people propose and in turn for economic and scientific reasons lost the number one status and someone else too kit, well, who would want to be allies with a bunch of Taliban larpers, and why would other powers want to protect them anyway when they wish death upon them for not sharing the same religious convictions?
Do you deny that Europeans have not enslaved lots of people and genocided them? Are you saying France in Haiti, Belgium in the Congo, Britain in India were good boys who dindu nuffin wrong?BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!
And you have the temerity call me dumb in the very same sentence you write something so idiotic?
Ok I will agree with you here technology can effect the size of empires.The limits of imperial overstretch are dictated by organization, communications and transport technology available, rather than by some timeless, unchanging constant - by the time it takes to send orders, envoys, goods or armies from the center of the empire to its edges.
In 12th century, a united country the size of modern Russia, USA or China would be considered unlikely to form, nearly impossible to run well and likely to fall apart (which China was back then, and had quite a few times of civil war and falling apart, and which Rome acknowledged by splitting into east and west to alleviate related problems).
Perhaps in 32nd century the limits of imperial overstretch will be in Alpha Centauri.
Not popular with the Chinese? Again the Chinese want a wealthy industrialized life your argument is about as dumb as general plan ost. The Germans/Chinese don't want to go to a whole new land and build everything. Being a homesteder is not an attractive prospect for modern people like it was in olden times where getting your own plot of land was how you got wealth.Not popular among who? The Chinese would not care more than about the Uyghurs, and the opinion of the people being wiped out would be inherently disregarded.
Mere land for settlement would not be worth it, just the stuff under the land, and you need relatively few people to exploit that stuff (see: population densities of oil bearing areas in Russia and Canada).
No, religions are systems of worldview-foundational beliefs, the sort of rootless cosmopolitans we have furnishing the managerial state have such a total absence of integrating values that whatever beliefs they hold do not qualify as a religion.Everyone has a religion, it is your deeply held beliefs.