Leftist Child Grooming


middle and high schools in seattle washington offering free on campus child transitioning & abortions
they do so through partnering with "nova wellness center".
I would bet we would see more schools partnering with those butchers
 
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Russia banned all gender mutilation, as well as banned trans from adopting kids.
CBS news is very concerned over this "dismantling individuals freedoms"


CBS said:
Russian lawmakers on Friday passed a law banning gender-affirming procedures in the country as the Kremlin continues its campaign of dismantling individual freedoms and instilling values it believes to be "traditional."
 
Delusional take. No priests don't have a higher rate of child abusers than the regular population. You are just sucking off atheist talking sources. First off we should compare apples to apples and not oranges. Now if we are forced to stick with Catholics instead of Orthodox then we should not compare priests to all men, but other celibate men.
Obviously sexual abusers are not celibate, and not of the rest are either, it's just that by regulation they are supposed to be, don't try to rope me into silly logic games.
The Church does stop homosexual abusers obviously no human group is perfect and some still slip through the cracks, but the same group bringing up stories of bad priests and saying it's more common are also the ones who use their sources to show trans kids are real. Why don't you believe them? It's because you are just believing whatever will allow you to believe in stupid "What was acceptable in society 10 or 15 years ago. More than that is fascist, less is commie!"
Both the pro-gay and ultra-conservative church officials agree on one thing, the presence of homosexuals among the priesthood is massively above population average, perhaps by an order of magnitude, and if such people agree about something, then there's a good chance there's something to it. They disagree on how to see it, they disagree on what to do with it, and they disagree on whether it's a bad thing or not, but they do agree that there's a whole lot of them, including in the leadership, which would explain why it's not doing much about that.

Again are you delusional yes there are heretics, though communists have not infiltrated the Church except in the minds of lunatic trad larpers or people wanting to have their cake and support everything the establishment conservatives do yet not criticize any of it's policies, like rampant greed, uncritical support for Israel, not caring for the poor, etc.
Sorry, but even "lunatic trad larpers" have absolutely nothing on ya.
Repeating that it didn't happen won't change the fact that it's happening since the friggin 1930's.
Look at your own gripes, this is shit proper red lefties obsess about, all of it.
I mean yes they do, secularism is the beggining of leftism.
Yeah, yeah, so is writing and industry, no one cares.
Everyone has a religion, it is your deeply held beliefs. Secularism itself is a religion to both people harping on the Constitution and communism.
But if communism is also religion then secularism simply doesn't exist, so what the fuck are we even talking about.
And yes those are effectively holy persons for Commies they read their writings and idolize them and try to emulate them and fullfill their vision.
Are they? Most commies denounce some or all of them as "not real communism", proportionally to how much of a mess they made and how hard it is to deny it.
What a stupid take. Please explain how drag queen story hour is "communism" Define communism for me, it's not "everything I don't like!" Communism is a specefic evil, the Soviet Union did not have drag queen story hour, China does not have drag queen story hour. The woke liberals might have some things they adopted from communism, but no they aren't commies.
It is a second degree offshot of communism because the existence of such event is based on the logic of cultural marxism, which is an offshot of communism that was figured out by commie intellectuals once it became clear that when it comes to material, economic promises to the "working class", communism got throughly beaten by capitalism, and its only going to get worse from there when it comes to classic communism's main selling point.
They can be very fluid, and it's all just politics in the end. Because western civilization used to be just Greeks, then Rome. Then it was defined as Europe that was descended from Roman laws/civilization married with the Western Christian faith(aka Catholics) as opposed to eastern Christianity, sometimes west is Christianity+Roman law (which would include eastern Christians like Russians) when opposed by Islam. Logically the protestant nations should not be seen as western under the first definition which is catholic. Yet they are, also politics play a role as Latin America operates under a quasi western aegis, so does Saudi Arabia and is our ally. Hell in the cold war you were not western as Poland was part of Warsaw pact. Also you've also engaged in these silly things before by defining Israel as western. Hell I think you even said fucking Japan is western.
Because no civilization has a hard line, usually there's some intermediate borderland somewhere between that's hard to classify here or there.
Please give a definition for "western culture/civilization" what makes you part of it, how do you become part of it, or leave it?
Saudi Arabia? Politically kinda but not fully allied, definitely not westernized. Some Asian countries are allied and culturally westernized but not a proper part of Western Civilization. Israel is a fairly similar case but a bit more, same with Latin America, though for different reason (cultural assimilation by Spanish Empire).
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.
If it looks like a duck but doesn't quack like it, it's probably not a duck but might be related.
Yes, but you should only use those terms if you are being academic instead of engaging in political rhetoric.
I'll use them when i decide so.
Same arguments apply to Asian civilization(Japan, China, Korea) vs Poland by itself. It's a meaningless statement.
In that case it would start a very unworthwhile war with the West.
It's not mere magnanimity though? It's an alliance, perhaps it's one the west should end but it's not out of the kindness of our heart.

As for your hypotetical I doubt this. Let's pretend the U.S. became a theocratic empire. We stop being a democracy and even bomb nations that are actively atheist like the Nordics, as long as they aren't a nuclear power. But nations that are majority Christian we try to have good relations with, non Christian but religious nations we have normal relations with, atheistic nations like CCP we dislike. Russia is still the same it wants to expand west. You are president of Poland, you don't want to be under Russian oligarch, America offers to give you support and protection because you are fellow Christians for the most part, you just have to keep being the same and not secularize like western europe. Do you accept or find another partner because "eww American taliban!"
Well for one the implication of that scenario is that NATO falls apart because you are bombing some of its members, next goes the NPT, Asian countries get doubts, saner parts of Europe follow, soon your "nuclear exception" gets a lot more action before the theocratic empire decides we're a bit too close to the line for being considered secular, as the difference from some parts of Western Europe is practically not that big, we aren't Catholic Turkey, certainly not Catholic Pakistan.
Do you deny that Europeans have not enslaved lots of people and genocided them? Are you saying France in Haiti, Belgium in the Congo, Britain in India were good boys who dindu nuffin wrong?
Scale and degree. Who got genocided, who's gone?
In fact most would eagerly trade their neighbors or foreign conequerors they had for European ones, and few peoples in fact had the opportunity to take the deal as the better alternative.
Ok I will agree with you here technology can effect the size of empires.


Not popular with the Chinese? Again the Chinese want a wealthy industrialized life your argument is about as dumb as general plan ost. The Germans/Chinese don't want to go to a whole new land and build everything. Being a homesteder is not an attractive prospect for modern people like it was in olden times where getting your own plot of land was how you got wealth.
Well having lots of oil is extra conductive towards having a wealthy industrialized life.

Germans/Chinese/Americans or whoever else has nice technology in fact already is going and building everything in third world shitholes with oil. At least everything important.
Of course its not homesteaders, its technicians and engineers usually paid in 6 figures, and obviously that gets even a lot of westerners interested in it, even when they have to tolerate the local third world oddities, it wouldn't be any less interesting to them if they had to do it with the colonial army.
Now your argument of resource extraction ok that's very different, and yes China might be willing to do that, but then again so would the west with some of it's colonies. If Saudi Arabia was being unreasonable and China really wanted the oil they would do that, but it is generally cheaper and easier to just trade and humor the Saudis than go destroy everything and fight and invade to get it(even if the Saudis are incompetent)
That scenario in fact happened to USA with Iran, yet they still aren't genocided, occupied, or even bombed into the stone age.
Again do you think the West are pure angels who won't oppress or steal or use force to get what they want? What makes you think other civilizations are more moral or more good?
As i see it, the West has immense power to oppress and steal from third world countries since about XX century, yet is using merely a tiny fraction if their technical ability to do that at most, in fact some parts of the West today are in fact inviting the Third World to con them instead.
Whether its morality, incompetence, improfitability or laziness that's causing such a state of affairs is a hard guess, but considering the application (and particularly lack of it) to specific cases i'd lean towards earlier options.
 
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Is There a Doctor in the House?

In recent years, a striking paradigm shift in medical ethics has emerged, driven by progressive political ideologies purporting to champion "Social Justice." This shift has precipitated a surge in initiatives centered around diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). The resulting effects have varied considerably; they include the introduction of explicit racial bias in treatment protocols in a quest for "health equity," and an unsettling disregard for biological sex as an important variable in both medical research and patient care. Instead, the new radical movement favors categorizing individuals based on their self-identified and medically irrelevant "gender identity."

Even more alarmingly, we are witnessing a direct assault on the language associated with women's health in medicine. Terms traditionally used in clinical settings, such as "mothers," are being replaced with neutral alternatives like "birthing parents." Similarly, the term "women" is frequently substituted with "individuals with a cervix," even though nearly half of women don't know what a cervix is and such language may therefore cause a significant number of women to forgo important routine cervical screenings.

This trend of overlooking biological sex as a critical medical variable stems from an ideological drive to "queer" the natural world. The proponents of this view resist categorization, arguing that such practices are instruments of oppression wielded by the powerful against the less powerful. According to this perspective, medicine must eschew not only biological categorization of patients, but also traditional notions of what is deemed desirable or adverse patient outcomes.

These ideological shifts have raised substantial concerns regarding potential harm that such denial of biological realities could inflict on patients. However, recent academic discourse has escalated these concerns to new levels. A provocative new paper in the journal Qualitative Research in Health titled "Medical uncertainty and reproduction of the 'normal': Decision-making around testosterone therapy in transgender pregnancy" by Pfeffer and colleagues propels us further down the road of medical malpractice.

The authors, a group of transgender sociologists and enthusiasts, and healthcare activists, with not one medical degree among them, argue to dramatically move the goal posts of medical ethics, choosing to completely disregard the health, safety, and well-being of the developing fetus, all in the name of "trans" inclusion. Abiding by their paper's guidance would land us in a vacuum devoid of medical ethics and a seismic shift away from the importance of scientific research and medical evidence in favor of activist directed healthcare.

The authors argue that "gendered" pregnancy care is too focused on helping women have healthy babies, and that it might be okay for transmen to continue taking testosterone during pregnancy despite the known health risks to the fetus and effects on its normal development. The desire for "normal fetal outcomes," according to the authors, is rooted in a problematic desire "to protect their offspring from becoming anything other than 'normal'" and "reflect historical and ongoing social practices for creating 'ideal' and normative bodies."

This is, quite frankly, insane.

In the paper, Pfeffer et al. maintain that:

[L]acking and uncertain medical evidence (HRT with testosterone during pregnancy and chest feeding) in a highly gendered treatment context (pregnancy and lactation care), both patients and providers tend to pursue precautionary, offspring-focused treatment approaches.

We argue that medical ethics exists to guide medical providers and protect both the expectant mother and her future offspring.

The authors of the article strive to underscore the prevailing power dynamic and expertise discrepancy between medical professionals and their pregnant patients. They also highlight "lack of training on trans pregnancy care," and the failure of the current "precautionary approach" within a "highly-gendered space of pregnancy care." However, conspicuously absent is any robust, concrete data to substantiate their claims. Instead, they bolster their argument by cherry-picking quotations from their study involving a pool of 70 international "trans" individuals and 22 "health care providers" or simply those who were "identifying as health care providers" at the time of the study.

Before continuing, we must point out the obvious flaw in the article: pregnancy care isn't "gendered," it's sexed. Only the biologically fertile human females of our species possess the physical attributes necessary for pregnancy and childbirth. This is a simple biological reality.

Let us now turn our attention to the role of a physician in caring for a pregnant woman and the developing fetus.

The doctor-patient relationship is sacred, considered to be the core element in the ethical principles of medicine. Medicine's practice, at its heart, is a moral undertaking, thus conferring upon the physician the fiduciary duty of 'primum non nocere'—first, do no harm. In the seminal work Principles of Biomedical Ethics by Tom Beauchamp and James Childress, they delineate the four fundamental principles of medical ethics, often known as the "Georgetown Mantra":

  • Beneficence: the duty to "do good"
  • Non-maleficence: the duty to "not do bad"
  • Respect for Autonomy: respecting a patient's right to self-determination
  • Justice: the principle to treat all people equally and equitably
In the context of pregnancy, the physician must uphold these principles towards both the mother and her unborn child(ren).

The authors of the new paper are quick to point out the power and expertise imbalance between doctors and patients. This is neither a new nor concerning arrangement. Firstly, it is expected and indeed desirable that our physicians possess deeper knowledge and expertise in the field of medicine. We seek their counsel precisely because of their expertise, and in matters of pregnancy, we particularly rely on those with training in midwifery or obstetrics and gynecology. When complications arise during pregnancy, we consult specialists trained in managing high-risk cases or practitioners of maternal-fetal medicine.

Secondly, women are keenly aware of the potential power disparities, or injustices, that exist in medicine, notably in obstetrics and gynecology. This field, with historical roots in unethical practices and racism, often compels women to forego modesty and disclose their vulnerabilities. But one doesn't need to enter a maternity ward to understand the difference between how men and women are treated in medicine. Generally speaking, women are often not accorded the same degree of seriousness as men in healthcare, particularly concerning pain. Research has shown that women's pain and suffering are more frequently dismissed or misdiagnosed, especially among women of color. Instances of women being prescribed sedatives instead of pain medication, and misdiagnoses during heart attacks, are sadly commonplace.

A recent episode of The Retrievals, a podcast by The New York Times, titled "The Patients," unveiled startling experiences of women at the Yale fertility clinic who underwent intense, unexpected pain during egg retrieval procedures. These women recount how "their pain was not taken seriously" and "they were not believed." It emerged that a nurse at the clinic had been illicitly swapping fentanyl for saline. Even after this revelation, the center seemed to downplay the harm and pain suffered by these women, who had endured excruciating medical procedures with saline salt water as a substitute for anesthesia. These imbalances and injustices are not isolated to "trans" patients and should not be co-opted as a rationale for altering medical guidelines or evidence-based care, especially regarding the most vulnerable among us—the unborn child. Rather, these disparities should move medical professional societies, such as the American Congress of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) and the Endocrine Society, to uphold the highest standards of medical practice, grounded in empirical evidence and biological fact, irrespective of a patient's sex.

The cornerstone of a patient's trust lies in their belief that their physician's recommended treatment plan will consistently be informed by these four core principles of medical ethics outlined above.

The concerns raised by Pfeffer and colleagues focus on the modern treatment approach physicians take, which they deem excessively "precautionary" and "offspring-focused." Fortunately, caring for the child and the mother are neither mutually exclusive nor zero-sum. In situations where a woman aspires to become pregnant and commits to motherhood, physicians can provide care that optimizes outcomes for both parties while minimizing potential harm. If a woman chooses to continue a pregnancy, doesn't the developing fetus also have a right to the four principles of medical ethics? In such cases, the physician is duty-bound to care for both the child and the mother. There will of course be circumstances when the mother may need to cease a particular medication or treatment to safeguard the fetus, and the physician must provide comprehensive counsel to the family, elucidating the risks and rewards involved for both the mother and the vulnerable life developing in utero.

One doesn't have to look hard to find a list of drugs and substances that are known to be harmful to a developing fetus. Yet, for numerous other substances, safety remains indeterminate due to insufficient research. Pregnant women participating in clinical trials present intricate ethical challenges, potentially subjecting unborn babies to an array of unanticipated iatrogenic issues. Further, scientists might be hard-pressed to find a mother who would be willing to risk the health of her unborn child to advance scientific or medical understanding. Given the nature of the type of research that would be needed to satisfy the safety threshold for women remaining on their high dose testosterone throughout their pregnancy and breast-feeding period, we can again imagine a very small subset of pregnant women who would be willing and eligible to participate in this research endeavor.

This raises serious questions: Should we allow unborn children to be the subjects in medical research? Should we allow breastfeeding, newborn infants to be subjects in clinical trials? This concern is highlighted in the statement of a participant from the study under scrutiny, who pondered, "If I take testosterone, will that reduce my milk production? Will it transfer to my kid? I don't know. Again, we don't have any information on that because nobody lets cis women take testosterone and breastfeed" (emphasis our own).

Current research is already probing the effects of testosterone on breast milk production and its impact on breastfeeding infants. One unsurprising preliminary finding suggest that elevated testosterone levels adversely affect milk production. The La Leche League notes that "testosterone interferes with the hormone necessary for lactation (prolactin) and can cause a significant decrease in milk supply" and may shorten the the length of time a baby is able to breastfeed and increases the amount of formula supplementation.

Presently, testosterone is classified as a teratogenic, US FDA pregnancy category X drug, suggesting it can induce birth defects. It is labeled as such because "studies in pregnant women have demonstrated a risk to the fetus, and/or human or animal studies have shown fetal abnormalities; risks of the drug outweigh the potential benefits."

It is well-established that prenatal exposure to androgens, such as testosterone, can cause genital defects in females. Androgens act as masculinizing hormones, guiding the formation of male genitalia and inhibiting the development of a vaginal opening in males. Consequently, medical practitioners are not displaying "cisnormativity and judgement" in their handling of "trans" patients regarding testosterone "therapy"; they are fulfilling their ethical duties of beneficence and non-maleficence. Given the known effects of testosterone on a developing fetus, a conservative, precautionary approach is duly warranted.

Before moving on, we would like to provide a direct quote from a woman taking testosterone that Pfeffer et al. highlight in their article:

There's a bunch of research around androgen exposure in utero and intersex conditions…I did have a little bit of a complex feeling around working hard to not have an intersex child… As someone who is gender 'other,' to work hard to not create a different body that is gender 'other,' it feels weird. It feels a little hypocritical. But it kind of came down to wanting the child I created to have the most options in their own body in their own life which most intersex folks don't have fertility open to them.

It's essential to differentiate between being intersex and being transgender. Intersex variations or differences in sex development impact an individual's chromosomes, genitals, hormones, reproductive system (including the gonads), and their entire life. Research shows that intersex adults experience significantly more health issues and are more likely to report physical health limitations than those without intersex variations. These are serious considerations for both expecting mothers and healthcare providers.

When considering the experimental nature of women who are on high-dose testosterone while pregnant, we concur with the authors that there is a scarcity of evidence and studies, but this is largely because this is unchartered territory. Safe and ethical methods to study, track, and monitor this demographic are lacking, as is a substantial sample size necessary to collect meaningful data. Putting the fetus aside for a moment, we currently have no data on the effects of testosterone on the pregnant woman herself, specifically a pregnant woman with gender dysphoria.

For those who wish to become pregnant, taking testosterone can be problematic. As indicated by Planned Parenthood, "some trans men's ability to get pregnant might decrease after taking testosterone for a while," in some cases halting ovulation entirely. In such instances, stopping testosterone may be necessary to conceive. For those who managed to conceive while still on testosterone, the NHS website recommends pausing testosterone usage during pregnancy and that pregnancy itself could trigger mood fluctuations and exacerbate feelings of "gender dysphoria."

Pfeffer and colleagues write that most participants in their study use testosterone "as a critical medically managed component of their transition" and that there are concerns and fears about pausing testosterone prior to or during pregnancy and the postpartum period. Specifically, pausing testosterone would make "public recognition as a man more challenging" and might increase body dysphoria and depression, including postpartum depression. We have to stop here, rub our eyes, and shake our heads. Why would someone wanting to pass as a male desire to take on the very female task of pregnancy? Not only that, but none of the stated concerns or fears of stopping testosterone during pregnancy, postpartum, or while breastfeeding are life-threatening or permanent conditions. There are ways to safely manage depression and body dysphoria that don't involve potentially harmful compounds.

Pregnancy, postpartum, and breastfeeding are stages known to be associated with dramatic hormonal shifts. Physicians must consider these factors when counseling a patient who is also taking exogenous hormones, like testosterone. The effects of external testosterone on the female body during pregnancy, postpartum, and breastfeeding remain unknown.

It seems that at least one of the the doctors interviewed agreed:

I think if you choose to have a pregnancy and your female hormone levels would be already so high that testosterone probably wouldn't even mentally help… if you're producing breast milk and you couldn't be without testosterone for mental health… if you couldn't deal without testosterone, then you probably shouldn't be pregnant.

Upon reviewing the treatment approach proposed in the article, it's clear that the authors lack a nuanced understanding of medical ethics and the principles of evidence-based medicine. They offer a distorted interpretation of the four basic principles of medical ethics and their application to patient care. If a "trans man" seeks to conceive and bear a child, the physician is obligated to safeguard both patients—the parent and the fetus.

The authors' suggestion that medical providers should deviate from the principle of "do no harm" to follow paths where the evidence indicates harm is quite shocking. This perspective, driven more by ideology, emotions, and personal desires than by evidence, conflicts with the foundations of evidence-based medicine.

This new paper arguing that "precautionary" and "safety first" approaches during pregnancy to prevent developmental conditions in the fetus is "eugenicist" and "inscribe binarized notions of sex" needs to be seen to be believed. It's truly demented.

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Translation:
"It's fine to take wrong-sex hormones that will harm your baby in the womb, because trying to ensure your baby develops normally is fascism"

Get these people out of medicine, and burn every one of their enabling institutions to the ground!
 
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Family doctor in Washington tells kids on tiktok that if they're struggling with their gender identity, they can go on puberty blockers or hormones and it's completely reversible

As noted in a previous post, THIS IS A LIE.



Study: Effects of puberty-blockers can last a lifetime

https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389

Use of GnRH analogues also might have long-term effects on:

Growth spurts.
Bone growth.
Bone density.
Fertility, depending on when the medicine is started.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
 
Obviously sexual abusers are not celibate, and not of the rest are either, it's just that by regulation they are supposed to be, don't try to rope me into silly logic games.
Are you going to be pedantic? I'm saying those males who are trying to stay away from women like single men, who are incels, gays, or whatever. Obviously I think the Catholics not letting priests marry is dumb. I'm Orthodox we let our priests marry when I think of Church I primarily think of mine, I don't know how bad it is exactly for the Catholics I know that while you are schismatic because the Pope tried to usurp power at least you are closer to the truth than most protestants.

Both the pro-gay and ultra-conservative church officials agree on one thing, the presence of homosexuals among the priesthood is massively above population average, perhaps by an order of magnitude, and if such people agree about something, then there's a good chance there's something to it. They disagree on how to see it, they disagree on what to do with it, and they disagree on whether it's a bad thing or not, but they do agree that there's a whole lot of them, including in the leadership, which would explain why it's not doing much about that
Again same as above.
Sorry, but even "lunatic trad larpers" have absolutely nothing on ya.
Repeating that it didn't happen won't change the fact that it's happening since the friggin 1930's.
Look at your own gripes, this is shit proper red lefties obsess about, all of it.
My own gripes are things Christians have railed against since before communism and Karl was a twinkle in Heinrich Marx his father's eye. Christianity is not uncritical and supportive of capitalism. Many aspects of capitalism that the right worships are anathema to Christianity like interest based loans usury.

Yeah, yeah, so is writing and industry, no one cares.
Ok, yeah secularism when it was picked up in France after the revolution, in the Soviet Union when it was made, in the modern west after the 60's and it led to all sorts of shit in only a few short decades. Yet writing and industry can go hundreds or thousands of years with no problem.

But if communism is also religion then secularism simply doesn't exist, so what the fuck are we even talking about.
I'm saying that we should pick a better religion(unifiying belief) one that prevents child trannies and gives hope for an afterlife for all time, instead of looking to secular beliefs that don't offer us any salvation whether it be communism, or constitutionalism.

Are they? Most commies denounce some or all of them as "not real communism", proportionally to how much of a mess they made and how hard it is to deny it.
Communists read Marx's book and talk about his theories and philosophy, there are branches of them like Maoists vs Stalinists vs Trotskiests. But their arguments are just like arguments between diffrent sects of the same faith. Only differance is that communism offers a shitty "utopia" on earth which it does not actually deliver and beyond that after your mortal life on earth is done you stop existing and go to the void of oblivion and nothingness. Such an attractive belief.:rolleyes:

It is a second degree offshot of communism because the existence of such event is based on the logic of cultural marxism, which is an offshot of communism that was figured out by commie intellectuals once it became clear that when it comes to material, economic promises to the "working class", communism got throughly beaten by capitalism, and its only going to get worse from there when it comes to classic communism's main selling point.
Umm then why do corporations and capitalists seem to be the biggest supporters of pride month? Like sure wokeism has been inspired by communism just like Islam was inspired by Christianity, or Mormonism was inspired by Christianity but they are seperate things, not even really related.

Saudi Arabia? Politically kinda but not fully allied, definitely not westernized. Some Asian countries are allied and culturally westernized but not a proper part of Western Civilization. Israel is a fairly similar case but a bit more, same with Latin America, though for different reason (cultural assimilation by Spanish Empire).
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.
If it looks like a duck but doesn't quack like it, it's probably not a duck but might be related.
I'm asking what makes something Western Civilization? Like if a member of NATO rebelled against America and said "No us Brits are the true leaders of the free world and western civilization!" and some nations joined and the UK and America went to war. This war would be western civilization vs what?

In that case it would start a very unworthwhile war with the West.
You said to not look at practicality, because the west wiping out Saudi would also start a very unworthwhile war with much of Islamic civilization.

Well for one the implication of that scenario is that NATO falls apart because you are bombing some of its members, next goes the NPT, Asian countries get doubts, saner parts of Europe follow, soon your "nuclear exception" gets a lot more action before the theocratic empire decides we're a bit too close to the line for being considered secular, as the difference from some parts of Western Europe is practically not that big, we aren't Catholic Turkey, certainly not Catholic Pakistan.
So in that case a theocratic America that dominates the new world and is occupying the Nordics, and any nation that tries to get nukes that is not part of an alliance and is supporting conservative religious societies, the remains of NATO France and the UK offer protection but they expect you to embrace globohomo and rapefugees, Russia to the east wanting to plunder you, and the CCP who wants to just do bussiness. Which would you want to make deals with? Is being a Catholic Turkey that bad that you would shun America and go with Britain, France, and Germany and their trans globalism? You are Polish so the Russians are out, and you also don't really like the Chinese. So which of these would you be willing to work for and which would you say no?

Scale and degree. Who got genocided, who's gone?
In fact most would eagerly trade their neighbors or foreign conequerors they had for European ones, and few peoples in fact had the opportunity to take the deal as the better alternative.

Note this is just genocides right? Not including the lesser invasions massacres and oppression.

That scenario in fact happened to USA with Iran, yet they still aren't genocided, occupied, or even bombed into the stone age.
There are definitely people who want to bomb them into the stone age, and want to keep shit alive that happened in the 70's. Though many don't want to.

As i see it, the West has immense power to oppress and steal from third world countries since about XX century, yet is using merely a tiny fraction if their technical ability to do that at most, in fact some parts of the West today are in fact inviting the Third World to con them instead.
Whether its morality, incompetence, improfitability or laziness that's causing such a state of affairs is a hard guess, but considering the application (and particularly lack of it) to specific cases i'd lean towards earlier options.
This is nonsense the west stopped oppressing the rest of the world so much because they can't keep oppressing them as much. Once the effort of using the colonies was too much they let them go. They did not give them up "Out of the kindness of their heart" No the locals fought and won their freedom.
 
Trans former NH lawmaker faces federal charges for allegedly using daycare connections to generate child exploitation images

The Justice Department referred to trans-identified male Stacie Laughton as "a New Hampshire woman."

The first openly transgender lawmaker in the US is facing federal charges in connection with sexual exploitation at a Tyngsborough, Massachusetts daycare center. A teacher at the daycare who assisted the lawmaker in obtaining sexual pictures of the children has also been arrested and was charged in June. In a press release, the Justice Department referred to trans-identified male Stacie Laughton as "a New Hampshire woman."

Stacie Laughton, 39, has been federally charged with one count of sexual exploitation of children and aiding and abetting by the US Attorney's Office District of Massachusetts. Lindsay Groves, Laughton's former girlfriend, was the alleged teacher at the center who helped Laughton, a former NH lawmaker, gather the images and has been charged with child exploitation.

Groves allegedly used bathroom breaks for the children, such as diaper changes, to take pictures of the children in the bathroom and would send the photos to Laughton.

There were over 2,500 text messages between Laughton and Groves on the phones obtained by the prosecution. These included at least four sexually explicit pictures of children between three and five years of age.

According to the Boston Herald, in one alleged text from Groves, she said to Laughton, "I want to do this with you with one of my kids." The text was in conjunction with a picture focused on the genitals of a prepubescent boy.

Laughton allegedly responded, "I also need to be honest I mean yes that picture was hot of that little boy but you probably have gotten the picture by now that I prefer little girls (sic), but he is cute."

Other texts allegedly talked about the couple hooking up with each other as well as with children.

Groves was employed by the daycare from 2017 up until June of this year, according to the Boston Herald.

On Monday, the mother of one of the boys at the daycare filed a lawsuit against the business. The suit said, "As a direct and proximate result of the defendant's negligence and carelessness as well as the invasion of his privacy, the plaintiff's minor son was caused to suffer, and will continue to suffer."

The suit alleges the daycare had been told, as early as 2018 by a parent, that Groves "was inappropriately touching children under their care" and that the business "did nothing to protect the children."

According to the US Attorney's Office District of Massachusetts, "The charge of sexual exploitation of children provides for a sentence of at least 15 years and up to 30 years in prison, at least five years and up to a lifetime of supervised release and a fine of up to $250,000."
 
Are you going to be pedantic? I'm saying those males who are trying to stay away from women like single men, who are incels, gays, or whatever. Obviously I think the Catholics not letting priests marry is dumb. I'm Orthodox we let our priests marry when I think of Church I primarily think of mine, I don't know how bad it is exactly for the Catholics I know that while you are schismatic because the Pope tried to usurp power at least you are closer to the truth than most protestants.
Now also including people who don't care about staying away from women, but care about getting close to power, money or other people's children.
Again same as above.

My own gripes are things Christians have railed against since before communism and Karl was a twinkle in Heinrich Marx his father's eye. Christianity is not uncritical and supportive of capitalism. Many aspects of capitalism that the right worships are anathema to Christianity like interest based loans usury.
And where are the Christian banks who don't do it? Oh, wait, there are banks like this, sharia banks those are called.
What Christianity, who gets to decide THE Christian position on capitalism? Catholics? Capitalist Protestants? South American liberation theology commies?
If there's anything more scummy than politicians telling people how to spend their money is politicians deciding how other politicians should tell people to spend their money, so that's why no one in the Western civilization except some fringe people cares about what religions think of economics.
Ok, yeah secularism when it was picked up in France after the revolution, in the Soviet Union when it was made, in the modern west after the 60's and it led to all sorts of shit in only a few short decades. Yet writing and industry can go hundreds or thousands of years with no problem.
I think you are just tooting your own horn and using the term "secularism" as low brow replacement for leftism to glue all the leftism's nastiness to the term and then throw it at everyone less of a theocracy fanboy than you, sorry but everyone can see through that and they are probably laughing at you behind their screens, nice try, but too transparent.
I'm saying that we should pick a better religion(unifiying belief) one that prevents child trannies and gives hope for an afterlife for all time, instead of looking to secular beliefs that don't offer us any salvation whether it be communism, or constitutionalism.
But communism has its salvation, its in the name, if you don't know the enemy, shut up and stop calling people who know them better dumb.
Salvation and afterlife are a focus of Abrahamic religions, major Asian ones do fine without that kind of focus, see Buddhism - oblivion.
Communists read Marx's book and talk about his theories and philosophy, there are branches of them like Maoists vs Stalinists vs Trotskiests. But their arguments are just like arguments between diffrent sects of the same faith. Only differance is that communism offers a shitty "utopia" on earth which it does not actually deliver and beyond that after your mortal life on earth is done you stop existing and go to the void of oblivion and nothingness. Such an attractive belief.:rolleyes:
By standards of majority of religions and sects with such a concept, we're all going to hell, have fun with your afterlife lottery.
Umm then why do corporations and capitalists seem to be the biggest supporters of pride month?
Because they think it will get them paid, or more specifically, they think it will spare them massive lawsuits and PR attacks.
This is also why the international corporations outright avoid doing it in branches located in places that do not look kindly upon it.
ike sure wokeism has been inspired by communism just like Islam was inspired by Christianity, or Mormonism was inspired by Christianity but they are seperate things, not even really related.
Well if they were inspired, then they are related, and we can even point out shared parts.

I'm asking what makes something Western Civilization? Like if a member of NATO rebelled against America and said "No us Brits are the true leaders of the free world and western civilization!" and some nations joined and the UK and America went to war. This war would be western civilization vs what?
It would be an internal war of the western civilization, like you know, the many, many ones that happened in history. Where did anyone say that nations of the same civilization never wage wars with each other?
You said to not look at practicality, because the west wiping out Saudi would also start a very unworthwhile war with much of Islamic civilization.
Would it really? Would it be unworthwhile? Those questions have much less obvious answers in your example.
So in that case a theocratic America that dominates the new world and is occupying the Nordics, and any nation that tries to get nukes that is not part of an alliance and is supporting conservative religious societies, the remains of NATO France and the UK offer protection but they expect you to embrace globohomo and rapefugees, Russia to the east wanting to plunder you, and the CCP who wants to just do bussiness. Which would you want to make deals with? Is being a Catholic Turkey that bad that you would shun America and go with Britain, France, and Germany and their trans globalism? You are Polish so the Russians are out, and you also don't really like the Chinese. So which of these would you be willing to work for and which would you say no?
Any that will get us nukes fastest and in turn allow us to tell the world of strawman powers to mind their own business while they last, which won't be long. Ally with Japan and South Korea for economics.

Note this is just genocides right? Not including the lesser invasions massacres and oppression.
As i said, scale and degree, lots of "muh oppressed stone age savages" stuff identical to leftist's complaints about "white supremacy and colonialism", plus silly math like one of the linked, blaming sleeping sickness deaths on those evil Europeans as if it was their bioweapon or something, and none of it less than 100 years ago.
Here's some real shit for comparison:
There are definitely people who want to bomb them into the stone age, and want to keep shit alive that happened in the 70's. Though many don't want to.
My point still stands. If you were right, these people would be doing more than wanting, and even most of that wanting is due to stuff they did outside of Iran and after the revolution rather than the turnaround and treachery involved there, if Iran wasn't trying to get back into the ME empire game it would be getting much less attention in USA.
This is nonsense the west stopped oppressing the rest of the world so much because they can't keep oppressing them as much. Once the effort of using the colonies was too much they let them go. They did not give them up "Out of the kindness of their heart" No the locals fought and won their freedom.
Some fought, some didn't, and some were fought for by others, sometimes by other westerners (a lot of western colonial empire's disappearance after WW1 and WW2 was political pressure from those). In some cases it was in fact given away for various reasons, sometimes political, sometimes economic. In most cases they absolutely could oppress them more, it just wasn't worth the effort and the bad PR.
 
@Marduk



In 2021, the French government released a report that claimed over 300,000 kids had been abused by the Catholic Church. Media gobbled it up. But in the post-covid world of doubting the experts, I figured, why not doubt these experts too, and evaluate their claims?

The report, which can be found here, was published in English. This is kinda suspicious and obviously for export to America.



The report claims that in their initial phase, they had a public campaign for people to contact them, resulting in:
6,471 contacts
3,652 telephone calls
2,459 emails
360 letters

Not exactly the 300,000 claimed.

F1VAqZGWwAAYxqv


Overall in their research, they conducted:
11 interviews with guilty priests
27 interviews with random priests and seminarians across France
73 interviews with "Specialists"
174 victims actually interviews.

You can tell from this that much of the report's claim are projection.

F1VBH6CakAIUosz


So where do they get the 300,000 figure from? From really shoddy work: They show that they sexual abuse case for France overall was 14% for women, and 6% for men. *hand waving motion* therefore 300,000 people. But hey, Anon, that's still the minority of abuse cases

F1VGtX0WIAUu8Fe


*hand wave, hand wave* " Don't blame us for pulling numbers out of thin air, it's science!"

F1VG3_kXgAED7GF


Best I can figure out is that they took France's Catholic population of 27.8M people, and applied the estimated trends from the general population. Yep. That's all. They sent out 1,628 questionnaires and got 69 replies that qualify as abuse. They estimated from those 69.

But perhaps the most bemusing thought: Even if these figures are accurate, That's about 4k cases of abuse a year on average. France has 65k rapes a year. Meaning the Catholic Church would only be 6% of the crime. Of course, I don't even think it is 6%. This report is a joke.

But, no doubt, the media will continue running with the fictional 300,000 abused kids they never seem to interview (Because they don't exist).

Never believe the news, Anon. They are liars. Always were, always will be.
 
@Marduk



In 2021, the French government released a report that claimed over 300,000 kids had been abused by the Catholic Church. Media gobbled it up. But in the post-covid world of doubting the experts, I figured, why not doubt these experts too, and evaluate their claims?

The report, which can be found here, was published in English. This is kinda suspicious and obviously for export to America.



The report claims that in their initial phase, they had a public campaign for people to contact them, resulting in:
6,471 contacts
3,652 telephone calls
2,459 emails
360 letters

Not exactly the 300,000 claimed.

F1VAqZGWwAAYxqv


Overall in their research, they conducted:
11 interviews with guilty priests
27 interviews with random priests and seminarians across France
73 interviews with "Specialists"
174 victims actually interviews.

You can tell from this that much of the report's claim are projection.

F1VBH6CakAIUosz


So where do they get the 300,000 figure from? From really shoddy work: They show that they sexual abuse case for France overall was 14% for women, and 6% for men. *hand waving motion* therefore 300,000 people. But hey, Anon, that's still the minority of abuse cases

F1VGtX0WIAUu8Fe


*hand wave, hand wave* " Don't blame us for pulling numbers out of thin air, it's science!"

F1VG3_kXgAED7GF


Best I can figure out is that they took France's Catholic population of 27.8M people, and applied the estimated trends from the general population. Yep. That's all. They sent out 1,628 questionnaires and got 69 replies that qualify as abuse. They estimated from those 69.

I see what you are trying to do here and i'm not impressed.
Are you trying to imply that if one report with high figure for that was a stretch, all other reports must be false? Even when a conservative wing of the clergy itself goes "yeah, we do have a problem, it's mostly all those damn homos and leftist infiltrators doing it"?
But perhaps the most bemusing thought: Even if these figures are accurate, That's about 4k cases of abuse a year on average. France has 65k rapes a year. Meaning the Catholic Church would only be 6% of the crime. Of course, I don't even think it is 6%. This report is a joke.
Excuse me, but i'm allergic to bad statistics which you are attempting to throw at me.
For that figure to not be massive overrepresentation, 4% of French population would need to be members of the clergy. Obviously it's nowhere near that much, there's about 30,000 Catholic clergy in France, which, by your estimation here, do 4% of the raping while being around 0.05% of the population. If you include about 40,000 nuns who are probably not a big part of the problem you still get 0.11%. Even if you control for age groups that would still be overrepresentation by a double digit factor.
 
I see what you are trying to do here and i'm not impressed.
Are you trying to imply that if one report with high figure for that was a stretch, all other reports must be false? Even when a conservative wing of the clergy itself goes "yeah, we do have a problem, it's mostly all those damn homos and leftist infiltrators doing it"?
Conservative clergymen think there is a problem...
but is it from personal observation or from the news?
also. irrelevant to what he said
Excuse me, but i'm allergic to bad statistics which you are attempting to throw at me.
For that figure to not be massive overrepresentation, 4% of French population would need to be members of the clergy. Obviously it's nowhere near that much
That is literally the whole point. yes.
The numbers on the report do not add up
 
Now also including people who don't care about staying away from women, but care about getting close to power, money or other people's children.
The point I'm saying is that the Catholics fucked themselves when they prevented priests from marrying, and that will make acts of sodomy more likely. We can compare the rate of gay priests to old era British navy, or modern sex segregated prisons where there are men who are there for long periods of time with no women.

And where are the Christian banks who don't do it? Oh, wait, there are banks like this, sharia banks those are called.
What Christianity, who gets to decide THE Christian position on capitalism? Catholics? Capitalist Protestants? South American liberation theology commies?
Are you saying that historically all Christian sects until the protestants at the earliest did not look down on usury?

If there's anything more scummy than politicians telling people how to spend their money is politicians deciding how other politicians should tell people to spend their money, so that's why no one in the Western civilization except some fringe people cares about what religions think of economics.
What are you talking about religion informs morality, and morality absolutely can influence economy the idiot neo con right that thinks otherwise is part of the reason the big bussiness have gone woke. Because establishment right only cares "numbers go up!" while the left "numbers go up, and our social policies are supported!" Thus the CEO's double dip.

I think you are just tooting your own horn and using the term "secularism" as low brow replacement for leftism to glue all the leftism's nastiness to the term and then throw it at everyone less of a theocracy fanboy than you, sorry but everyone can see through that and they are probably laughing at you behind their screens, nice try, but too transparent.
The beliefs of other people don't really determine if an argument is right or wrong. But I still think this is wrong, I think I got more likes in this debate than you.

But communism has its salvation, its in the name, if you don't know the enemy, shut up and stop calling people who know them better dumb.
Salvation and afterlife are a focus of Abrahamic religions, major Asian ones do fine without that kind of focus, see Buddhism - oblivion.
No it does not offer salvation. Let's assume that communism is true and is inevitable eventually society will become equal and classless and from each according to their ability and to each according to their need will be put into place. How is that salvation? Communists say it's inevitable even if some "utopia" is inevitable that does not mean it will happen in MY lifetime. So why should I sacrafice and work for it when I won't enjoy the "fruits" of my labors. Great future generations will live in a classless utopia free of want, how does that help me or you? Christianity says YOU after death will live in paradise with your family, friends, loved ones, and ancestors.

As for your second point you don't seem to know much about dharmic faiths. Their are multiple beliefs but most of them belief in an afterlife many afterlifes of heavens and hells though they are impermenant once your good karma for heaven, or bad karma for hell is used up you will be reborn in the mortal realm, and the cycle of rebirth. What they teach is that by becoming the Buddha you can break the cycle and stop being reborn. That is nirvana, some say that is basically an eternal heaven, others say it means becoming one with the universe, and others say it is oblivion and non existance.

By standards of majority of religions and sects with such a concept, we're all going to hell, have fun with your afterlife lottery.
Do you honestly want a religious discussion here? Like you are wrong and the "odds" favor Christianity. This is like atheist 101 level arguments by someone who is ignorant in both Christianity and other world religions.

Because they think it will get them paid, or more specifically, they think it will spare them massive lawsuits and PR attacks.
This is also why the international corporations outright avoid doing it in branches located in places that do not look kindly upon it.
So we see here that the Arabs have the right idea of how to treat Merchants and put them in their place, and not have the authorities suck up to them.

Well if they were inspired, then they are related, and we can even point out shared parts.
We can also see they have far more in common with western liberalism(I'm using liberalisms definition from the 1800's where most modern conservatives would be liberal as well as libertarians) and capitalism.

It would be an internal war of the western civilization, like you know, the many, many ones that happened in history. Where did anyone say that nations of the same civilization never wage wars with each other?
You haven't answered what traits make someone part of western civilization or not. Are you saying a nation can't stop being western?

Would it really? Would it be unworthwhile? Those questions have much less obvious answers in your example.
Yes it would be bad it would cause great strain on our resources for no benefit. We also would invite internal dissatisfaction to put it mildly.
Any that will get us nukes fastest and in turn allow us to tell the world of strawman powers to mind their own business while they last, which won't be long. Ally with Japan and South Korea for economics.
Japan and South Korea are not powerful enough nations that they can defend you militarily and an alliance. Honestly the old Polish idea of Intermarium is smarter than what you said. Japan and South Korea while they are strong and rich, are geographically limited their resources and force projection is limited to the pacific and Asia, they won't be sending carriers or fleets around Africa to come to Europe, if Poland needs help.

As i said, scale and degree, lots of "muh oppressed stone age savages" stuff identical to leftist's complaints about "white supremacy and colonialism", plus silly math like one of the linked, blaming sleeping sickness deaths on those evil Europeans as if it was their bioweapon or something, and none of it less than 100 years ago.
Here's some real shit for comparison:
So you are giving examples of internal atrocities that Asians did against Asians? How is that relavent you know there is a reason I did not bring up the holocaust and other genocides europeans did against themselves right?

My point still stands. If you were right, these people would be doing more than wanting, and even most of that wanting is due to stuff they did outside of Iran and after the revolution rather than the turnaround and treachery involved there, if Iran wasn't trying to get back into the ME empire game it would be getting much less attention in USA.
Those people want to, they just can't yet because of blowback. Also lol treachery? Come on it's not treachery nations in that positions are not allies anymore than Poland was to Russia in the Warsaw pact, they were forced to submit. Unless you are going to say that Poland betrayed russia by running into NATO?

Some fought, some didn't, and some were fought for by others, sometimes by other westerners (a lot of western colonial empire's disappearance after WW1 and WW2 was political pressure from those). In some cases it was in fact given away for various reasons, sometimes political, sometimes economic. In most cases they absolutely could oppress them more, it just wasn't worth the effort and the bad PR.
No there would be no benefit for oppressing them more that is worth it. You just said it yourself. Very few nations will make it their primary goal to make others life as terrible as possible just because, they will make others life bad to make their own good. I mean using your dumb logic I can say China is also extremely generous and kind as they aren't genociding the Mongols and oppressing them because they could since they aren't in an alliance, it's just not worth the effort and bad PR.
 
The point I'm saying is that the Catholics fucked themselves when they prevented priests from marrying, and that will make acts of sodomy more likely. We can compare the rate of gay priests to old era British navy, or modern sex segregated prisons where there are men who are there for long periods of time with no women.
What you're missing here is despite all that, it's far from impossible for priests to break their vows with women, and many choose that option instead of children or other men, unlike these analogies you want to pull up they absolutely do have other options. Its not even that they are punished harder for being caught breaking their vows with women, if anything the children option carries secular penalties and investigations on top of clerical ones unlike the others so by that logic it should be the most avoided option, so the utility of the position attracting already deviant people while they are insufficiently policed against by the organization has to have a major effect there.
Are you saying that historically all Christian sects until the protestants at the earliest did not look down on usury?
And that's a point against Christian sects until the protestants. What is clear that secular rulers even back then knew this is a travesty and used the Jews as a way to go around this problem, which in the end was discarded alltogether. Because it is a problem. Every government with something resembling a decently run, non resource based economy will agree about that one, be it Western or Asian.

What are you talking about religion informs morality, and morality absolutely can influence economy the idiot neo con right that thinks otherwise is part of the reason the big bussiness have gone woke. Because establishment right only cares "numbers go up!" while the left "numbers go up, and our social policies are supported!" Thus the CEO's double dip.
It absolutely can influence it. But it's not written anywhere that the religion's influences are good for said economy. Sometimes... they are fucking dumb, as the people establishing the moral rules tend to not know and/or not care about the economic result of their proscriptions. Wokeness being a prime example of that.

The beliefs of other people don't really determine if an argument is right or wrong. But I still think this is wrong, I think I got more likes in this debate than you.
You should be ashamed and feel bad for using that argument at all.
No it does not offer salvation. Let's assume that communism is true and is inevitable eventually society will become equal and classless and from each according to their ability and to each according to their need will be put into place. How is that salvation? Communists say it's inevitable even if some "utopia" is inevitable that does not mean it will happen in MY lifetime. So why should I sacrafice and work for it when I won't enjoy the "fruits" of my labors. Great future generations will live in a classless utopia free of want, how does that help me or you? Christianity says YOU after death will live in paradise with your family, friends, loved ones, and ancestors.
If i was going to choose religion by that logic i would pick Valhalla instead of the Christian paradise.
Meanwhile many Asian religions don't take the route of trying to bribe the would be adherents with nice promises of afterlife, and they are doing ok too.

Of course the prospect of working for establishing the glorious worker's utopia of equality appeals to us as much as the idea of paradise shopping with more conventional religions appeals to me, but that's besides the point, guess people have different preferences in that.
As for your second point you don't seem to know much about dharmic faiths. Their are multiple beliefs but most of them belief in an afterlife many afterlifes of heavens and hells though they are impermenant once your good karma for heaven, or bad karma for hell is used up you will be reborn in the mortal realm, and the cycle of rebirth. What they teach is that by becoming the Buddha you can break the cycle and stop being reborn. That is nirvana, some say that is basically an eternal heaven, others say it means becoming one with the universe, and others say it is oblivion and non existance.
How the fuck does that contradict what i just said?
Lots of rebirths and afterlives to argue about, but in the end, it's nirvana or oblivion.
Do you honestly want a religious discussion here? Like you are wrong and the "odds" favor Christianity. This is like atheist 101 level arguments by someone who is ignorant in both Christianity and other world religions.
LOL U R WRONG level of argumentation, yeah, take that to 4chan.
So we see here that the Arabs have the right idea of how to treat Merchants and put them in their place, and not have the authorities suck up to them.
Said Merchants are in fact doing all that to suck up to other authorities.
We can also see they have far more in common with western liberalism(I'm using liberalisms definition from the 1800's where most modern conservatives would be liberal as well as libertarians) and capitalism.
Pointless haggling about which is more in a mathematically immesureable quality.
You haven't answered what traits make someone part of western civilization or not. Are you saying a nation can't stop being western?
A sufficient sum of western characteristics makes it so.
Yes it would be bad it would cause great strain on our resources for no benefit. We also would invite internal dissatisfaction to put it mildly.
The latter would be far greater than the former, and the benefit is obvious. Hell, leftists a couple decades ago were accusing USA of doing something like that, except with Iraq rather than Saudis. Depending on where you're sitting, it's hilarious, great or unfortunate that they were wrong.
Japan and South Korea are not powerful enough nations that they can defend you militarily and an alliance.
They would be more capable of that than others in your fictional world because your usury hating religious nuts would drive US economy into the ground and its military would follow that route naturally.
Honestly the old Polish idea of Intermarium is smarter than what you said. Japan and South Korea while they are strong and rich, are geographically limited their resources and force projection is limited to the pacific and Asia, they won't be sending carriers or fleets around Africa to come to Europe, if Poland needs help.
Do they need to? Hence the nukes.
So you are giving examples of internal atrocities that Asians did against Asians? How is that relavent you know there is a reason I did not bring up the holocaust and other genocides europeans did against themselves right?
Wow, didn't know Mongols and Muslims committed atrocities only against Asians, that would be very racist of them... if it was true.
What makes atrocities crossing certain customary lines of loose racial classifications worse or inherently different than those that don't?
I mean outside of the world of leftist delusions of course, i know it's one of the big bads in that world.
Those people want to, they just can't yet because of blowback. Also lol treachery? Come on it's not treachery nations in that positions are not allies anymore than Poland was to Russia in the Warsaw pact, they were forced to submit. Unless you are going to say that Poland betrayed russia by running into NATO?
How was Iran forced into a fairly close alliance with USA? Did US army divisions go there and made them pick a pro-US ruler while staying there and watching him closely like Soviets did in Poland?
No there would be no benefit for oppressing them more that is worth it. You just said it yourself. Very few nations will make it their primary goal to make others life as terrible as possible just because, they will make others life bad to make their own good. I mean using your dumb logic I can say China is also extremely generous and kind as they aren't genociding the Mongols and oppressing them because they could since they aren't in an alliance, it's just not worth the effort and bad PR.
It's an interesting case, but the rest of the world and Russia are the causes.
But my point is, in a world where Europe and USA no longer act as semi-neutral and sometimes zealous to the point of going against own interests defenders of international law and human rights, a lot of countries around the world would feel less obliged to even pretend they care about those than they are now.

And as for why, you also answered yourself, getting lots of oil, preferably cheaply and reliably, is a pretty major part of what is generally considered arranging a good life for a country since the industrial age.

But overall, i think we should drop all the offtopics, like the shallow nature of your much obsessed about religiosity that goes down to paradise shopping, general leftist shitting on western civilization for not following your lead in the former, a whole ass political fiction story of unlikely nature, and even geopolitics, all to defend the honor of institutional religion which you claim to not even be a member of, just because it's a religious institution. Damn, if they knew they have such sympathy in the world they might even start selling indulgences again.
 
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The indoctrination goes on:


 

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