Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum

[Marduk]

A good argument for being way out in the sticks and growing your own food, I suppose.

You don't get it. Most places in the world don't have nearly enough land to grow even remotely enough food for their population without modern agricultural technology and its performance even if they used all the land for it.
There will be too many people with the same idea and most will suck at implementation anyway.

 

[Scottty]

You don't get it. Most places in the world don't have nearly enough land to grow even remotely enough food for their population without modern agricultural technology and its performance even if they used all the land for it.
There will be too many people with the same idea and most will suck at implementation anyway.

A major solar flare that shuts down electronics would have catastrophic effects on today's civilization, yes. But one's chances of survival would still be better the less integrated into and dependent on "the system" one was.

 

[Marduk]

A major solar flare that shuts down electronics would have catastrophic effects on today's civilization, yes. But one's chances of survival would still be better the less integrated into and dependent on "the system" one was.

Doesn't matter how integrated and dependent you are before, being as far away from the hordes of other starving and angry people as possible would be the #1 priority, everything else is irrelevant if they can loot it when the catastrophe happens. The rest is location, location, location.

 

[Scottty]

Doesn't matter how integrated and dependent you are before, being as far away from the hordes of other starving and angry people as possible would be the #1 priority, everything else is irrelevant if they can loot it when the catastrophe happens. The rest is location, location, location.

Location matters indeed. But it's far from the only thing that matters in the "without it, it you die as well" sense.
For example: people who know how to grow their own food are going to have a survival advantage over people who only know how to order food from the shops.
People who are part of a closely-knit in-group who can all be counted on to watch each others' backs are going to have a massive survival advantage over toxic people who nobody likes or trusts.
And so on.

 

[mrttao]

You don't get it. Most places in the world don't have nearly enough land to grow even remotely enough food for their population without modern agricultural technology and its performance even if they used all the land for it.
There will be too many people with the same idea and most will suck at implementation anyway.

"Get out in the sticks" means "go to a remote location".
Yes, there are too many people...
But they are not evenly distributed. Most of those too many people are crammed into dense cities.

And with all the electronics fried, they are going to have to WALK a very long distance to reach farms they can violently seize.
Most people are gonna die in the cities.

 

[Marduk]

"Get out in the sticks" means "go to a remote location".
Yes, there are too many people...
But they are not evenly distributed. Most of those too many people are crammed into dense cities.

And with all the electronics fried, they are going to have to WALK a very long distance to reach farms they can violently seize.
Most people are gonna die in the cities.

A reasonably fit person can walk 30 km a day and do it for few days.
How many locations *that are fit for low tech subsistence farming* are this far from cities?

 

[The Whispering Monk]

A reasonably fit person can walk 30 km a day and do it for few days.

How many people in urban environs actually qualify as reasonably fit?

 

[Marduk]

How many people in urban environs actually qualify as reasonably fit?

Not that many.
Unfortunately it's a high correlation with the same people who rob stores and take part in mostly peaceful riots.

 

[DarthOne]

Not that many.
Unfortunately it's a high correlation with the same people who rob stores and take part in mostly peaceful riots.

Which means they’re doing things for their own gain and not to feed their families. So I won’t feel bad about shooting them.

 

[LordsFire]

A reasonably fit person can walk 30 km a day and do it for few days.
How many locations *that are fit for low tech subsistence farming* are this far from cities?

A couple things to remember related to this:

1. How many of these people actually understand farms are where food comes from, and know where they are?
2. How many of these people have the initiative and determination to go to such places if they know about them/
3. How many of them are actually within even multiple days journey of such places?
4. How many of them can navigate without GPS?

There's several similar considerations, but the long and short of it is that in a Carrington event situation, there's good reason to expect that there'd be small groups of stragglers, not large mobs, heading out of cities and looking for food. Some of those people would absolutely be people with a past penchant for violence, but it's going to be very limited quantities, and most likely only after they've used violence to take food from other people in cities.

I'd expect a lot more heavy raiding of suburbs before attacking outright rural dwellers becomes an issue.

Honestly, there'd be so many moving parts and so many fine details in situations like this, and so many different major urban areas, that you'd probably have all kinds of different scenarios playing out.

 

[DarthOne]

A couple things to remember related to this:

1. How many of these people actually understand farms are where food comes from, and know where they are?
2. How many of these people have the initiative and determination to go to such places if they know about them/
3. How many of them are actually within even multiple days journey of such places?
4. How many of them can navigate without GPS?

There's several similar considerations, but the long and short of it is that in a Carrington event situation, there's good reason to expect that there'd be small groups of stragglers, not large mobs, heading out of cities and looking for food. Some of those people would absolutely be people with a past penchant for violence, but it's going to be very limited quantities, and most likely only after they've used violence to take food from other people in cities.

I'd expect a lot more heavy raiding of suburbs before attacking outright rural dwellers becomes an issue.

Honestly, there'd be so many moving parts and so many fine details in situations like this, and so many different major urban areas, that you'd probably have all kinds of different scenarios playing out.

Well, there’s a solution to that:



Minimum electrical parts, and you can probably run one on bio fuel.

Also:
‘I have a tank and you don’t.’

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Better get that tank ready quickly. In the case of a situation like this, real war bands would show up quicker than many would like to think.

 

[Marduk]

A couple things to remember related to this:

1. How many of these people actually understand farms are where food comes from, and know where they are?
2. How many of these people have the initiative and determination to go to such places if they know about them/
3. How many of them are actually within even multiple days journey of such places?
4. How many of them can navigate without GPS?

There's several similar considerations, but the long and short of it is that in a Carrington event situation, there's good reason to expect that there'd be small groups of stragglers, not large mobs, heading out of cities and looking for food. Some of those people would absolutely be people with a past penchant for violence, but it's going to be very limited quantities, and most likely only after they've used violence to take food from other people in cities.

I'd expect a lot more heavy raiding of suburbs before attacking outright rural dwellers becomes an issue.

Honestly, there'd be so many moving parts and so many fine details in situations like this, and so many different major urban areas, that you'd probably have all kinds of different scenarios playing out.

Unnatural selection will happen. There won't be food to take from people in suburbs for long... A lot will die, but those that don't will become much more dangerous as they learn. Even minor organized crime knows the concept of scouting targets before crime, so it's not a big jump for them. There's no reason why they can't get as bad as third world militias and gangs, some already are similar.
And yeah, incredible chaos is a given.

 

[mrttao]

A reasonably fit person can walk 30 km a day and do it for few days.
How many locations *that are fit for low tech subsistence farming* are this far from cities?

everyone already pointed out that people are not reasonably fit.

but you kinda missed the part about them having to even come up with the idea, come up with maps, know which direction to go to, and then manage to perform said hike while dodging the various armed gangs who would kill them for their food or kill them to cook them AS food.

Besides all that, initially those who want to use violence for food are going to be murdering each other in the cities over canned food.
Only when they run out of canned food in the cities will they even consider moving out

 

[Vyor]

No, those people will be the ones left alive when the next Carrington Event fries all the electronics on which your AI stuff depends.

Only to realize that without electronics they won't get healthcare, logistics for food and energy, and that is if they get any food because there won't be enough for 90% of people and everyone will try to be in the 10% of people, with violence if need be.

A major solar flare that shuts down electronics would have catastrophic effects on today's civilization, yes. But one's chances of survival would still be better the less integrated into and dependent on "the system" one was.

LOL, LMAO


All of you are fucking retards.

Want to know how long we'd be out of power for? About 1-2 years... in the most remote regions of the planet. Everywhere else maybe 6 months.

Your cars? Still functional. Computers? Still functional. Anything inside a modern building or a shell of metal? Still functional. Military hardware? Very functional. Generators? Still functional.

Actually, if people do the proper thing and are alerted to the event before it arrives? They'll just turn off the system and then we'd only be out of power for days at worse rather than months.

Satellites are a bit fucked, mind, but all of the ones on the night side of the planet would work fine. Indeed, everyone and everything on the night side of the planet won't notice anything.

It's almost like we build faraday cages into almost all of our shit and buildings or something. Oh, and have proper ground circuits specifically to prevent interference(which an EMP is).

 

[Marduk]

LOL, LMAO


All of you are fucking retards.

Want to know how long we'd be out of power for? About 1-2 years... in the most remote regions of the planet. Everywhere else maybe 6 months.

6 months is plenty enough to die, especially if it covers a winter.

Your cars? Still functional. Computers? Still functional. Anything inside a modern building or a shell of metal? Still functional. Military hardware? Very functional. Generators? Still functional.

Unless your car is from the previous century, it may need repairs. Not that it will help when the gas station and refinery feeding it have no power, same with generators.
Electronics, if you sheltered them or the event wasn't too bad, sure, but good luck powering that for some time.
Not sure how many modern buildings actually work as a decent faraday cage.
Military hardware, sure, that's built to deal with this sort of stuff, still needs fuel though.

Actually, if people do the proper thing and are alerted to the event before it arrives? They'll just turn off the system and then we'd only be out of power for days at worse rather than months.

Possibly, but depending on the source this sort of stuff may move fast enough for many to not take precautions, we are talking hours of warning and most people don't track solar events closely.
Also there are degrees to resistance to this sort of stuff, minor events happen often, but they don't hit hard enough to do more than disrupt very sensitive scientific equipment, so how much damage happens does depend on the scale and type of the event.

 

[Vyor]

Unless your car is from the previous century, it may need repairs. Not that it will help when the gas station and refinery feeding it have no power, same with generators.

Why would generators not have power? They are literally just spinning magnets and copper wire.

Not sure how many modern buildings actually work as a decent faraday cage.

If they have electricity, all of them. The power lines and water pipes will do it very well.

 

[Marduk]

Why would generators not have power? They are literally just spinning magnets and copper wire.

In the previous century, most new ones have plenty of electronic optimization like car engines.
Still, good luck running refineries, oil extraction and logistics for them off those.

If they have electricity, all of them. The power lines and water pipes will do it very well.

That's grounding, not faraday cage...

 

[ATP]

"Get out in the sticks" means "go to a remote location".
Yes, there are too many people...
But they are not evenly distributed. Most of those too many people are crammed into dense cities.

And with all the electronics fried, they are going to have to WALK a very long distance to reach farms they can violently seize.
Most people are gonna die in the cities.

Indeed,"Dies the Fire " scenario.There was good scene in one of later books,where children of survivors explored empty lands 20 years later and found old road full of skeletons - people who tried to go away from some big city,but all died there.
/No water nearby,and hot climate/

 

[Zachowon]

Generators would be plenty viable.