Israeli-Hamas War News & Updates

@Abhorsen So what was that about favoring Fatah to come in and take over after Hamas is dealt with?

People linked to Fatah just tried to off Abbas.
... Thanks for citing evidence that proves my point? Fatah, as in the actual leadership of it, is willing to risk assassination rather than actually help Hamas out.

EDIT: removed some stuff, as it was unnecessarily confrontational.
 
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... Thanks for citing evidence that proves my point? Fatah, as in the actual leadership of it, is willing to risk assassination rather than actually help Hamas out.

EDIT: removed some stuff, as it was unnecessarily confrontational.
They wanted to off Abbas because he is not trying to one up Hamas in being radicals in attacking Israel, and Abbas is head of the Palestinian Authority, which is more than just Fatah.



So to say Fatah is a good choice to take over Gaza, when it's membership is willing to put out a hit on the head of the PA for not trying to kill more Jews than Hamas, seems rather foolish.

You are just going to the next rank down the jihadi ladder, not getting someone who wants peace, with Fatah.
 
They wanted to off Abbas because he is not trying to one up Hamas in being radicals in attacking Israel, and Abbas is head of the Palestinian Authority, which is more than just Fatah.
And how does this disprove my point? First, you haven't shown that the Sons are Fatah, or even in Fatah. They just seem to be a small subgroup of Fatah at worst, though they could be from any police unit if they are telling the truth, and IDK that all West Bank cops are Fatah, there could be other nominally allied groups.

Second, Abbas is the head of Fatah as well as the PLO. This is basic, like Palestine/Israel 101 stuff. So yeah, the leadership of Fatah is also against helping out Hamas, because they also hate Hamas. Something you'd know if you took five minutes to read about the region.

At worst for Fatah, it was an internal struggle for control, not Fatah deciding to off their own leader, but a split off group trying to change things.

So to say Fatah is a good choice to take over Gaza, when it's membership is willing to put out a hit on the head of the PA for not trying to kill more Jews than Hamas, seems rather foolish.
Yes, because a small subgroup that hates what the larger group is doing is how you judge the larger group. Phenomenal reasoning.

You are just going to the next rank down the jihadi ladder, not getting someone who wants peace, with Fatah.
And here you show that you actually don't understand what a death cult is, why Hamas is one, and Fatah is not, and why that matters for negotiations.

Oh, and hint: next time you try to pick a fight with someone, maybe don't lead with evidence that proves their point. Remember, you are trying to post evidence that supports your argument, not your opponent's argument. Subtle difference, but I got faith in you!
 
Given that Abbas and a few others seem to be the only sane ones in the Palestinian leadership, and people below him want him dead for not being more extremist/Death Cultist, putting him or Fatah into power will just have another Hamas-like entity take over once he and his allies are out of power (one way or another).

You'd basically just be kicking the can down the road. Again.
 
And how does this disprove my point? First, you haven't shown that the Sons are Fatah, or even in Fatah. They just seem to be a small subgroup of Fatah at worst, though they could be from any police unit if they are telling the truth, and IDK that all West Bank cops are Fatah, there could be other nominally allied groups.

Second, Abbas is the head of Fatah as well as the PLO. This is basic, like Palestine/Israel 101 stuff. So yeah, the leadership of Fatah is also against helping out Hamas, because they also hate Hamas. Something you'd know if you took five minutes to read about the region.

At worst for Fatah, it was an internal struggle for control, not Fatah deciding to off their own leader, but a split off group trying to change things.


Yes, because a small subgroup that hates what the larger group is doing is how you judge the larger group. Phenomenal reasoning.


And here you show that you actually don't understand what a death cult is, why Hamas is one, and Fatah is not, and why that matters for negotiations.

Oh, and hint: next time you try to pick a fight with someone, maybe don't lead with evidence that proves their point. Remember, you are trying to post evidence that supports your argument, not your opponent's argument. Subtle difference, but I got faith in you!
It only supports your argument for handing over Gaza to Fatah in your own head, and anyone who isn't invested in trying to defend them as a choice will see why.
 
It only supports your argument for handing over Gaza to Fatah in your own head, and anyone who isn't invested in trying to defend them as a choice will see why.
My argument: Fatah isn't a death cult, and Fatah hates Hamas, so putting them in charge of Gaza afterwards could stop Hamad from returning to power there.

Your evidence: there's a group in the West Bank that's really mad that Fatah isn't helping out Hamas, and so tried to kill their leader.

Sounds to me that this evidence shows that a) Fatah clearly doesn't like Hamas, and b) if they are too scared to join the fight, they aren't a death cult as they aren't suicidal.

Now, it could be that the group behind the assassination has a ton of popular support in the Fatah rank and file, etc. But you've shown no evidence for that, so all else being equal, there's no reason to assume that now.

So no, it's an actually useful piece of evidence for me that I'll use in the future. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 
My argument: Fatah isn't a death cult, and Fatah hates Hamas, so putting them in charge of Gaza afterwards could stop Hamad from returning to power there.

Your evidence: there's a group in the West Bank that's really mad that Fatah isn't helping out Hamas, and so tried to kill their leader.

Sounds to me that this evidence shows that a) Fatah clearly doesn't like Hamas, and b) if they are too scared to join the fight, they aren't a death cult as they aren't suicidal.

Now, it could be that the group behind the assassination has a ton of popular support in the Fatah rank and file, etc. But you've shown no evidence for that, so all else being equal, there's no reason to assume that now.

So no, it's an actually useful piece of evidence for me that I'll use in the future. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
There is a very different issue with Fatah returning to power in Gaza too.

Namely, they got fucking kicked out from power in Gaza in the first place. This assassination attempts also shows meaningful internal opposition against the current non-violent policy, whatever motivates it - could be the economic and humanitarian benefits, could be merely a vendetta against Hamas in particular for past events - if you're gonna go full cartel on our guys, don't expect us to move a little finger to help you now.
In the latter case Fatah will get more militant once Hamas is dealt with, and in the former case, it's up in the air whether current Fatah leadership will be able to not only stay alive and stay in power but also physically keep control of Gaza.
 
Namely, they got fucking kicked out from power in Gaza in the first place. This assassination attempts also shows meaningful internal opposition against the current non-violent policy, whatever motivates it - could be the economic and humanitarian benefits, could be merely a vendetta against Hamas in particular for past events - if you're gonna go full cartel on our guys, don't expect us to move a little finger to help you now.
This is a very fair point. I think their only chance is with Israeli effective backing, though maybe not public backing. There's a fair chance that Fatah just ends up splitting, with the people sent to Gaza just ending up forming Hamas 2.0 though, and there's a fair chance that Fatah wants this as a way to get rid of that group inside Fatah, so maybe it's not a great idea for those reasons.

Still, I haven't seen a much better end state. The other real option is long term Israeli occupation, and that's going to be bloody.

In the latter case Fatah will get more militant once Hamas is dealt with, and in the former case, it's up in the air whether current Fatah leadership will be able to not only stay alive and stay in power but also physically keep control of Gaza.
I totally expect them to stay violent, but likely less violent than expected (I don't expect constant rockets from them, for example) because after the fight, the capabilities to resist will be very degraded, and they'll be busy fighting Hamas. The question is whether they become a death cult, which I tend to doubt.
 
This is a very fair point. I think their only chance is with Israeli effective backing, though maybe not public backing. There's a fair chance that Fatah just ends up splitting, with the people sent to Gaza just ending up forming Hamas 2.0 though, and there's a fair chance that Fatah wants this as a way to get rid of that group inside Fatah, so maybe it's not a great idea for those reasons.

Still, I haven't seen a much better end state. The other real option is long term Israeli occupation, and that's going to be bloody.


I totally expect them to stay violent, but likely less violent than expected (I don't expect constant rockets from them, for example) because after the fight, the capabilities to resist will be very degraded, and they'll be busy fighting Hamas. The question is whether they become a death cult, which I tend to doubt.
You forget Egypt is right there, and borders Gaza too.

If Egypt wanted to take control of Gaza, I don't think Israel or the international community would object much.

Heck, Israel has tried to get Egypt to take control of Gaza for years, but Cairo doesn't want the mess.
 
This is a very fair point. I think their only chance is with Israeli effective backing, though maybe not public backing.
Said backing would be... politically ultra-spicy both for Fatah and Israel.
There's a fair chance that Fatah just ends up splitting, with the people sent to Gaza just ending up forming Hamas 2.0 though, and there's a fair chance that Fatah wants this as a way to get rid of that group inside Fatah, so maybe it's not a great idea for those reasons.

Still, I haven't seen a much better end state. The other real option is long term Israeli occupation, and that's going to be bloody.


I totally expect them to stay violent, but likely less violent than expected (I don't expect constant rockets from them, for example) because after the fight, the capabilities to resist will be very degraded, and they'll be busy fighting Hamas. The question is whether they become a death cult, which I tend to doubt.
The problem is, even if Hamas as an organization gets driven underground (considering their foreign presence and allies total destruction is unlikely), considering their infamous initiative to turn the education system into death cult indoctrination 101 for almost 2 decades, Gaza will still contain plenty of unaccounted for death cultists. It's going to be a challenging place to hold, whoever will do it. Which is exactly why no one wants it to be their problem. More will clear up after this operation is over, there is a good reason why Israel is suggesting open ended occupation, they don't want to make firesale deals in a hurry while the situation is unclear, maybe other options will show up when things calm down.
 
You forget Egypt is right there, and borders Gaza too.

If Egypt wanted to take control of Gaza, I don't think Israel or the international community would object much.

Heck, Israel has tried to get Egypt to take control of Gaza for years, but Cairo doesn't want the mess.
Yeah, but we know Egypt doesn't want Gaza. That's the optimal solution, but also never going to happen.

Said backing would be... politically ultra-spicy both for Fatah and Israel.
Yes. That is a huge issue. But there's not a ton of options.

The problem is, even if Hamas as an organization gets driven underground (considering their foreign presence and allies total destruction is unlikely), considering their infamous initiative to turn the education system into death cult indoctrination 101 for almost 2 decades, Gaza will still contain plenty of unaccounted for death cultists. It's going to be a challenging place to hold, whoever will do it. Which is exactly why no one wants it to be their problem. More will clear up after this operation is over, there is a good reason why Israel is suggesting open ended occupation, they don't want to make firesale deals in a hurry while the situation is unclear, maybe other options will show up when things calm down.
I hope other options show up. This is just the long term solution I can see. I expect Israel to eventually get tired of holding the territory, but I could be wrong, so the question is what happens after that.

Honestly, they could hold handing over Gaza to Fatah as a bargaining chip for a long while, and maybe get something out of that.
 
I hope other options show up. This is just the long term solution I can see. I expect Israel to eventually get tired of holding the territory, but I could be wrong, so the question is what happens after that.

Honestly, they could hold handing over Gaza to Fatah as a bargaining chip for a long while, and maybe get something out of that.
Saudis and UN peacekeepers are also theoretical options after the bullshit dies down. Even if they don't work out, other options being negotiated will stop Fatah from acting as if they are the only option in their negotiations.

One thing that could develop in an interesting direction is that since about a week Israel is in a shooting war with the Houthis, just like Saudis are. Israel still didn't do any tit-for-tat as far as i know...
That's not typical for them, perhaps something bigger is being discussed?
 
The assassination attempt on Mahmoud Abbas might've been Palestinian misinformation. An unrelated gun fight, rumored to be involving drugs, occurred while Abbas convoy was nearby and a Palestinian Islamists group and very professional Palestinian journalists reported it as an assassination attempt.


 
Houthi Rebels based in Yemen Allegedly Launched an Attack upon the Israeli City of Eilat. The building damaged was apparently a school. No injuries were reported however.



An almost surreal story where Israeli Intelligence Contacted a Gazan Dentist Living in an Apartment Complex and Told Him That the Apartments Would be Struck Soon But They Would Wait If He Could Evacuate the Buildings Beforehand.


IDF Reports They Are Facilitating the Transportation of over five thousand tons of Humanitarian Supplies Into Gaza recently.



Associated Press Newswire reports that as the Palestinian death toll surpasses 10,000, infection and food insecurity run rampant across Gaza. It's gotten so bad...

AP News said:
Some Palestinians have even vented their anger against Hamas, shouting insults at officials or beating up policemen in scenes unimaginable just a month ago, witnesses say.

AP News said:
A man who was told off by a Hamas officer for cutting the bread line took a chair and smashed it over his head, according to an aid worker in line. In another area, angry crowds hurled stones at Hamas police who cut in front of a water line and beat them with their fists until they scattered, according to a journalist there.

Over the past few night in Gaza City, Hamas rockets streaming overhead toward Israel have prompted outbursts of rage from a U.N. shelter. In the middle of the night, hundreds of people have shouted insults against Hamas and cried out that they wanted the war to end, according to a 28-year-old sleeping in a tent there with his family.


Clearly Identified Palestinian Medic in the West Bank Races Out to an Injured Militant and Rescues his Assault Rifle in the Midst of Combat.



Things have gotten so bad for Gazan medical services that the Indonesian Hospital in Gaza has uhhh Doctors walking around carrying assault rifles.





On the October 7th Attacks...

Reportage on a Claim that Many Hamas Militants Were Using a Stimulant Called 'Captagon' which had been used by other Islamist Militant and Terrorist Groups Before in the Syrian Civil War.


Interviews with Captured Hamas Militants Giving Accounts of How They Originally Had a Plan of Seizing Israeli Settlements, Holding Them and Their Occupants Hostage and Planting Minefields to Help Defend the Positions But Failed To Do So Due to Counter-attacks. The article also details accounts on how captured militants, sometimes boasting, of killing Israeli civilians with hammers, or that they were ordered to kill children since they would become future settlers and displaying a general lack of remorse for their conduct which one admits was no different from ISIS.

The article also reports on eyewitness accounts of witnessing gang rape perpetrated by Hamas militants and the ultra-Orthodox Zaka Volunteer Organization stating their first responders have found the remains of Women showing the signs of sexual violence perpetrated upon them.

Law Enforcement is also studying over 50,000 collected videos to find evidence of crimes perpetrated by Hamas militants for their upcoming prosecution.


Article details the Israeli investigation of accounts of sexual abuse and other sex crimes allegedly perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th. The scale of the massacre and number of bodies however limits the ability of forensic analysis needed to properly collect and document evidence of sex crimes, especially now that a month has passed.

Times of Israel said:
Now, a month after the massacre, the window for collecting physical evidence of rape that can stand up in court is closed, said a forensic official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Under good conditions, authorities would have had about a week to collect evidence from bodies if they were promptly found and professionally handled.

But these were not optimal conditions for evidence collection. In the wake of the massacre, resources were overwhelmingly directed toward identifying victims — not their cause of death — a process that is still ongoing. The circumstances of the mass casualty event and the ongoing war contaminated crime scenes, or did not allow for the collecting of relevant evidence. And in many cases, the bodies were in such states of mutilation or decay when found that it was impossible to obtain evidence.

Bodies collected in the field are bagged and delivered to an emergency morgue set up at the Israel Defense Forces' Shura Base, near the town of Ramle. Michal Levin Elad, head of the National Forensic Investigative Division of the Israel Police, spoke with The Times of Israel on October 31 at Shura and said that the base's "prime mission is to identify victims; we were not concerned with how they died or what happened."

Of the 1,400 people presumed killed on October 7, about 310 soldiers and 840 civilians have been identified. It is unclear if among them are the 58 police officers killed, as well. This means that around 200 bodies remain unidentified.

Accounts and Evidence Collected in Most Cases, Doesn't Pass the Forensic Evidence Threshold Needed.

Times of Israel said:
At Shura, IDF Captain (Res.) Maayan, who said she was unable to share her last name, is a dentist and part of the medical forensic team working to identify bodies.

Maayan said on October 31 that she has seen several bodies that had signs consistent with sexual abuse.

"I can tell that I saw a lot of signs of abuse in the [genital region]," Maayan said, using her hand to euphemistically demonstrate. "We saw broken legs, broken pelvises, bloody underwear," and women who were not dressed below the waist, she said.

Ina Kubbe, a gender and conflict scholar with Tel Aviv University, confirmed that these are signs consistent with sexual violence, but that a forensic investigation is required for any formal determination of rape.

"Yes, we have seen that women have been raped. Children through elderly women have been raped. Forcible entry, to the point that bones were broken," said Shari, who asked not to share her last name. "We saw genitals cut off," she added. Shari is part of a special women's unit that prepares female soldiers' bodies for burial after mass casualty events. She, too, is not legally qualified to determine rape.

The IDF has also screened, behind closed doors, a 47-minute compilation of raw footage from the Hamas assault, including a video of a mutilated woman whose undergarments had been removed. There are also pictures and videos uploaded to social media providing additional circumstantial evidence supporting rape claims.

The article also states that in interrogations of Hamas militants, incidents of sexual violence including necrophilia were revealed.


 
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Saudis and UN peacekeepers are also theoretical options after the bullshit dies down. Even if they don't work out, other options being negotiated will stop Fatah from acting as if they are the only option in their negotiations.
I could see Saudi, but not the UN. Israel rightly doesn't trust them for shit. The Saudis being peacekeepers is actually a great idea IMO. It let's Saudi Arabia save face for an Israel deal and we know they don't like Hamas.

One thing that could develop in an interesting direction is that since about a week Israel is in a shooting war with the Houthis, just like Saudis are. Israel still didn't do any tit-for-tat as far as i know...
That's not typical for them, perhaps something bigger is being discussed?
I think it's more a logistics problem for Israel. Actually hitting Yemen is a fair bit harder than hitting south Lebanon. They might be better off ignoring it right now, rather than reacting. Currently it's been a kamikaze drone and a cruise missile, right? IDK that there's anything they could attack that would actually stop suicide drones, as those can be launched nearly anywhere, unlike rockets, which need to be aimed.
 
I could see Saudi, but not the UN. Israel rightly doesn't trust them for shit. The Saudis being peacekeepers is actually a great idea IMO. It let's Saudi Arabia save face for an Israel deal and we know they don't like Hamas.
Multinational force in general keeps the costs down for all the individual participants, one country doing it, for most countries the sheer effort involved is as much of a dealbreaker as the political side of things. Saudis could do it as part of the discussed normalization deals and one country is easier to make deals with, but at great expense, especially while they need major military attention on Yemen.
I think it's more a logistics problem for Israel. Actually hitting Yemen is a fair bit harder than hitting south Lebanon. They might be better off ignoring it right now, rather than reacting. Currently it's been a kamikaze drone and a cruise missile, right? IDK that there's anything they could attack that would actually stop suicide drones, as those can be launched nearly anywhere, unlike rockets, which need to be aimed.
They can use it as practice run for their long range strike options against Iran, including aerial refueling... unless Saudis give them airbase access for refueling.
Israel can use warships too for coastal areas, and lets not forget their own drones and cruise missiles.
Strikes against assembly, control, or storage points for the drones and cruise missiles would do, so if Israel gets the right intel, it would be doable.
 
I think it's more a logistics problem for Israel. Actually hitting Yemen is a fair bit harder than hitting south Lebanon. They might be better off ignoring it right now, rather than reacting. Currently it's been a kamikaze drone and a cruise missile, right? IDK that there's anything they could attack that would actually stop suicide drones, as those can be launched nearly anywhere, unlike rockets, which need to be aimed.

It's also been theorized the drone could've been launched from Syria or even Iraq.



The Israelis also reportedly did intercept another Houthi launched ballistic missile with their Arrow Defense System.

 
Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu states he has no desire to occupy or govern Gaza but wants it put under a "civilian government" after its been "demilitarized, deradicalized and rebuilt."


To that end... Mahmoud Abbas has offered to generously take control of Gaza.


Israel to implement daily four hour humanitarian pauses in fighting as their forces continue to advance into Gaza City. An estimated 80,000 Palestinians evacuated to the South from Gaza City on Thursday.


Video of Destruction of the Hamas Tunnel Network and Underground Infrastructure by IDF Ground Forces.





Fighting Continues Near Multiple Hospitals in Gaza City where the IDF is engaging Palestinian Fighters.

At Rantis Hospital.



And At the Al Shifa Hospital Which Is Still Standing Despite the IDF Having Reportedly Blown It Up Weeks Ago.



Damascus International Airport, Thanks In Large Part to Many Israeli Strikes, Has Been Largely Out of Commission for a Month.

 
IDF Forces Are Located Close to Al-Shifa Hospital Where Hamas Wisely Located A Headquarters Underneath and Used as a Torture Facility in Previous Years.





The Al-Shifa Hospital, Including its Maternity Ward, Reportedly Remain Well Defended However.



IDF Reports that the Israeli Air Force has conducted over five thousand missions in support of ground operations in Gaza, with over 80% conducted by planes and helicopters and 570 by drones. Some of the strikes have been within a few hundred meters of IDF forces.



US and Israeli Officials are Meeting With Qatari Officials to Discuss a Three Day Humanitarian Cease Fire And the Release of 10-20 Hostages Currently Held by Hamas.



OSINT Analyst (and former TOW Gunner) Ryan McBeth Examines Some Hamas Video of Their Attacks on IDF Armor as well as Explains A Bit on Israel's Trophy Active Protection System.

 
Map of Alleged Advances Made by the IDF Forces in Northern Gaza.



Dismounted IDF Reservists Reportedly Clearing Out More of the Northern Environs of Gaza.



Jordanian Air Force Made Another Paradrop of Humanitarian Medical Supplies to a Jordanian Field Hospital Located Within Gaza.



Combat Footage From Within Gaza From Israel's 551st Brigade.



Gazan Militants Still Have Access to MANPADs. Islamic Jihad Allegedly Downed an Israeli Heron Medium Endurance UAV with a Strela.

 

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