You're a Boomer? You can PM me if you don't want to answer publicly.
Anyway, what do you think about LBJ vs. Donald Trump? Or alternatively HHH (Hubert Horatio Humphrey) vs. Donald Trump?
What If? Interesting ASB Elections
You're a Boomer? You can PM me if you don't want to answer publicly.
Anyway, what do you think about LBJ vs. Donald Trump? Or alternatively HHH (Hubert Horatio Humphrey) vs. Donald Trump?
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Not sure about Humphrey, but presuming it's a 2016 or 2020 electorate deciding between Johnson and Trump, I think it'd be more contentious. Initially, I predict that LBJ will lead in the polls big time due to Civil Rights and the War on Poverty, at least among Democrats and moderates who can be "persuaded" to vote Blue in November.
But then, I suspect his momentum will come to a screeching halt as soon as LBJ's bad side comes to light, mainly on the back of Johnson being a repugnant, warmongering bully who shamelessly waved Jumbo about and casually used the N-word, both of which are undeniably on public record and can't be memory-holed away very easily. True, they're probably irrelevant trivia to most voters now, but in an ASB election where LBJ gets another shot at the presidency, his biography will carry much more weight than ever. In which case, I think he'd get cancelled by the blue-check crowd on Twitter and fear another round of DNC riots (or at least, raucous protests) that showcase a divided base. In short, as easy as it is to slam Trump as a boor and a blowhard, the same could also be said about Johnson, and I don't think many Democrats would give him the benefit of the doubt on that.
Agreed, and I also think that Trump's anti-war message could help him, especially if he claims to know what will happen if the US will get involved in Vietnam due to future hindsight. Trump will run on an accomodation platform with the Soviet Union.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Which no longer exists by the twenty-first century.
Still, I agree that Trump may still have anti-war messaging going for him, though he and Johnson will both be in for a really dirty race. Honestly, the attack ads practically write and film themselves, with LBJ attacking Trump as a politically inexperienced elitist who talks big, but has ultimately done nothing for his country (i.e. bone spurs and Vietnam). Conversely, Trump’s ads will slam Johnson as a corrupt warmonger who’s everything—which is to say, an actual racist, misogynist, and loose cannon—the Democrats claim to hate, and then some. I doubt he’ll take kindly to being heckled as “Crooked Johnson” or “Kid-Killer Johnson”, either, so there’s that.
Plus, depending on which side of the fence you’re on, it’d be either fun or sad to watch Johnson attempt to become the line-straddling, “missing-link” candidate between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. His “Johnsonomics” platform—or maybe the “Lyndon School of Economics”, if you prefer—is one thing on its own, but advertising it to a divided Democratic base that could easily turn on him and start up a sequel to the 1968 DNC riots is another. I’d have to think a lot more about what Johnsomics itself might entail, but off the top of my sleep-deprived head, I imagine it’d cobble together a series of compromises and half-measures between the incumbent neoliberal and growing democratic-socialist wings of the party. For starters, I think he’d want to greatly expand on Obamacare without eliminating private insurance wholesale, though he may include price controls and move to institute a public option in the long haul, anyway. I also think he’d push for lower and middle-class tax relief, with much higher taxes for the wealthy that can be offset by restoring certain deductions that existed in his time, but were repealed when Reagan reformed the tax code. He probably has ultra-rich donors to please himself, after all, and apart from the strictly economic benefits and drawbacks of hyper-progressive taxation, wealthy people today don’t have the same “team mindset” as the GI Generation did (and may be more likely to exploit loopholes and move to save havens, as a result). And, of course, there’s LBJ’s signature preponderance for public spending and antipoverty programs, though I’ve written too much to delve into specific details on what he’d do there, as is. In which case, I suppose whatever sounds “in-character” for LBJ that’s also within the modern Overton Window is plausible enough, though selling it to people when you’re as crass and newly disreputable as him is a different story.
I’m similarly curious as to what he’d advertise as his foreign policy, especially when it comes to the excuses he gives over Vietnam and what he says about the more recent Middle Eastern conflicts. Not to mention concerns about him overreacting to Russian saber-rattling in Ukraine, due to both his Cold War mindset and his own volatile temperament. Diplomacy with Vietnam would also be awkward, even if he does little to alienate them after previous administrations have normalized relations with Southeast Asia over the last few decades.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Which no longer exists by the twenty-first century.
Still, I agree that Trump may still have anti-war messaging going for him, though he and Johnson will both be in for a really dirty race. Honestly, the attack ads practically write and film themselves, with LBJ attacking Trump as a politically inexperienced elitist who talks big, but has ultimately done nothing for his country (i.e. bone spurs and Vietnam). Conversely, Trump’s ads will slam Johnson as a corrupt warmonger who’s everything—which is to say, an actual racist, misogynist, and loose cannon—the Democrats claim to hate, and then some. I doubt he’ll take kindly to being heckled as “Crooked Johnson” or “Kid-Killer Johnson”, either, so there’s that.
Plus, depending on which side of the fence you’re on, it’d be either fun or sad to watch Johnson attempt to become the line-straddling, “missing-link” candidate between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. His “Johnsonomics” platform—or maybe the “Lyndon School of Economics”, if you prefer—is one thing on its own, but advertising it to a divided Democratic base that could easily turn on him and start up a sequel to the 1968 DNC riots is another. I’d have to think a lot more about what Johnsomics itself might entail, but off the top of my sleep-deprived head, I imagine it’d cobble together a series of compromises and half-measures between the incumbent neoliberal and growing democratic-socialist wings of the party.
For starters, I think he’d want to greatly expand on Obamacare without eliminating private insurance wholesale, though he may include price controls and move to institute a public option in the long haul, anyway. I also think he’d push for lower and middle-class tax relief, with much higher taxes for the wealthy that can be offset by restoring certain deductions that existed in his time, but were repealed when Reagan reformed the tax code. He probably has ultra-rich donors to please himself, after all, and apart from the strictly economic benefits and drawbacks of hyper-progressive taxation, wealthy people today don’t have the same “team mindset” as the GI Generation did (and may be more likely to exploit loopholes and move to save havens, as a result). And, of course, there’s LBJ’s signature preponderance for public spending and antipoverty programs, though I’ve written too much to delve into specific details on what he’d do there, as is. In which case, I suppose whatever sounds “in-character” for LBJ that’s also within the modern Overton Window is plausible enough, though selling it to people when you’re as crass and newly disreputable as him is a different story.
I’m similarly curious as to what he’d advertise as his foreign policy, especially when it comes to the excuses he gives over Vietnam and what he says about the more recent Middle Eastern conflicts. Not to mention concerns about him overreacting to Russian saber-rattling in Ukraine, due to both his Cold War mindset and his own volatile temperament. Diplomacy with Vietnam would also be awkward, even if he does little to alienate them after previous administrations have normalized relations with Southeast Asia over the last few decades.
In addition, I wonder if Johnson will be "asked" to testify over the Bobby Baker scandal and the Gulf of Tonkin incident, possibly as an October Surprise that puts the cherry on top of an already-ruined electoral sundae? If so, then I think he'd (temporarily) displace Hillary Clinton as the corrupt and divisive face of the Democratic Party, with Lyndon's "line-straddling" being discredited and the 2020 election marked by the perceived need to clearly choose between neoliberalism or democratic socialism, rather than mix and match in a temporizing fashion.
While I don't know what this means for butterflies after 2016, I still suspect that in the meantime, Clinton will have no qualms about throwing LBJ under the bus for nabbing the Democratic nomination. Maybe even taking him to task at the debates for his sexism and "Trump-esque vulgarity", though she'd probably preface it with praise for his domestic achievements and courageously taking office, following Kennedy's assassination. The clips, headlines, and soundbites should be quite fun, though I wonder who Bernie will endorse... and how much "Johnson treatment" will be needed to persuade him?
In addition, I wonder if Johnson will be "asked" to testify over the Bobby Baker scandal and the Gulf of Tonkin incident, possibly as an October Surprise that puts the cherry on top of an already-ruined electoral sundae? If so, then I think he'd (temporarily) displace Hillary Clinton as the corrupt and divisive face of the Democratic Party, with Lyndon's "line-straddling" being discredited and the 2020 election marked by the perceived need to clearly choose between neoliberalism or democratic socialism, rather than mix and match in a temporizing fashion.
While I don't know what this means for butterflies after 2016, I still suspect that in the meantime, Clinton will have no qualms about throwing LBJ under the bus for nabbing the Democratic nomination. Maybe even taking him to task at the debates for his sexism and "Trump-esque vulgarity", though she'd probably preface it with praise for his domestic achievements and courageously taking office, following Kennedy's assassination. The clips, headlines, and soundbites should be quite fun, though I wonder who Bernie will endorse... and how much "Johnson treatment" will be needed to persuade him?
I also wonder just how much trouble LBJ will get for calling Hillary Clinton "a spry and seductive little old fox"!
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
I also wonder just how much trouble LBJ will get for calling Hillary Clinton "a spry and seductive little old fox"!
Sounds appropriately Johnson-esque!
Uncertain electoral map aside, I expect that once it's all over, LBJ and the Clintons will despise each other to an extent that's hard to hide from the press and the public. In fact, I'd expect some decent tabloid gossip and pointed interview questions about their rivalry during primary season, with Trump (unsurprisingly) weighing in during his rallies and Fox News appearances. All in all, an even more "fun" 2016 election than what we got IOTL!
Sounds appropriately Johnson-esque!
Uncertain electoral map aside, I expect that once it's all over, LBJ and the Clintons will despise each other to an extent that's hard to hide from the press and the public. In fact, I'd expect some decent tabloid gossip and pointed interview questions about their rivalry during primary season, with Trump (unsurprisingly) weighing in during his rallies and Fox News appearances. All in all, an even more "fun" 2016 election than what we got IOTL!
Yeah, him being a man born in Texas before the start of World War I, I suspect that he would be highly likely to say something like that!
Seriously! How much worse will the Clinton-LBJ hate be relative to the Clinton-Obama hate that existed in the spring and summer of 2008?
Any thoughts on this, @Zyobot? My hunch is that Wilson would win simply because Buchanan would be denounced as a traitor everywhere outside of the former Confederacy, and even there, not everyone would actually be happy with his actions towards the Confederacy. I do suspect that most of the people who will vote for Wilson will do so while aggressively holding their noses, of course. And I would presume that Wilson would have to backtrack on his support for segregation, though he'll obviously be denounced as a rotten rat by the current Woke crowd either way:
/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/pmn/YLCIEENAINAWXP53UWN2B5RWTU.jpg)
Camden’s Woodrow Wilson High School renamed Eastside High
The Camden school board decided to rename the Woodrow Wilson High School because of the segregationist views and ideas of the former president.
www.inquirer.com
Princeton Renames Wilson School and Residential College, Citing Former President’s Racism
Princeton’s trustees voted Friday to rename the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs and Wilson College, removing the name of the alumnus and former U.S.
paw.princeton.edu
Anyway, what about 'Abraham Lincoln (1864) vs. Franklin Roosevelt (1944)'?
There shouldn't be a woke crowd in either 1912, 1916, or 1856. If it's happening in 2020 the real race is a three way between the Green and Libertarian candidates and a write in campaign for Cthulhu.
What if it's the 2020 electorate and no third party candidates or write-in candidates are actually allowed on the ballot?
Record low voter turnout and everyone in both parties in congress promising to immediately impeach the winner for faking their deaths through time travel.
What if Alien Space Bats also force the American people to ratify a constitutional amendment that prohibits any US President from being impeached due to sheer disgust towards his policies?
Anyway, what about this one? :
'Richard Nixon (1968/1972) vs. Donald Trump (2016)'
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
‘Donald Trump (2016) Vs. Woodrow Wilson (1916)’.
Assuming it’s a modern electorate choosing between the two… yeah, curb-stomp for Trump. Every evil adjective the Democrats could brand The Donald with probably applies to their guy ten or twentyfold. Hell, even the “Oh, but he was a product of his time!” would still work against Wilson, since most people would strongly oppose having someone carrying those outdated views into the modern White House, and then some.
Assuming it’s a modern electorate choosing between the two… yeah, curb-stomp for Trump. Every evil adjective the Democrats could brand The Donald with probably applies to their guy ten or twentyfold. Hell, even the “Oh, but he was a product of his time!” would still work against Wilson, since most people would strongly oppose having someone carrying those outdated views into the modern White House, and then some.
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Yeah, Trump wins in a landslide, hands down. You think that Trump is a racist? Woodrow Wilson was Trump x 100!
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Yep.
Not to mention the hypocrisy factor of the DNC sticking with the fella who showed Birth of a Nation right in the White House and actually abused his powers in an almost proto-fascistic manner the first time around. Honestly, I think it’d cripple the whole Democratic Party’s credibility for a few more election cycles, though anti-GOP voter fatigue and the two-party nature of American politics would catch up eventually. That, and the DNC would expel the idiots who gave Wilson the nod and permanently learn from their mistake, so…
I actually think that the Democratic base would love Wilson if he was Woke rather than racist. Interestingly enough, Wokes and racists aren't too different from each other:
Demands for Segregated Housing at Williams College Are Not News | National Review
It is disturbingly common for American colleges, public and private, to offer segregated dorms, graduation ceremonies, and events.
www.nationalreview.com
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
I actually think that the Democratic base would love Wilson if he was Woke rather than racist. Interestingly enough, Wokes and racists aren't too different from each other:
Demands for Segregated Housing at Williams College Are Not News | National Review
It is disturbingly common for American colleges, public and private, to offer segregated dorms, graduation ceremonies, and events.
Yeah, but then Wilson would have to “flip” his rhetoric, if not necessarily his Segregationist policies.
Might also do a one-eighty on immigration, too, just to throw scraps to the loose and open-borders people.