once again with a calm warp the FTL is comparable between the two. unless the force can interfere with the warp they aren't going to be at a massive FTL disadvantage. at worst put them a class or two behind the ISD drive at best for comparison.
IoM also has a massive industrial capacity. at least as good and arguably better considering how well they can absorb losses.Dont underestimate the industrial capacity of the Empire. The ability to manufacture death stars at the same time as essentially replacing the entire republic fleet with new ships in a fairly short timeframe speaks of an immense industrial potential.
plotschield.The same stormtroopers take Lei frigate loosing 4 KIA,and rebel ice base with little loses.Imperial Storm Troopers lose against teddy-bears with stone age weapons.
Maybe they'd find it easier to actually land shots on an Ork charging at them with a chainsaw - bigger target after all.
IoM also has a massive industrial capacity. at least as good and arguably better considering how well they can absorb losses.
IoM also has a massive industrial capacity. at least as good and arguably better considering how well they can absorb losses.
the old stuff was better and irreplaceable. there is still a lot of production going on though. it is better to think of DaoT era stuff as precursor relics. stuff from 30k sometimes can still be made in limited quantities. sometimes it can't be made at all any more. there is still quite a bit of space ship production going on though. it is a galactic scale empire that has a lot of attrition in space. they would not have lasted 10,000 years without it.Do they?
From what I've been told, their massive ornate battleships take centuries to build, and run on legacy technology that they no longer properly understand, even if they can still build more it it.
Contrast this with what one SWverse world (Exegol) can churn out in a couple of decades...
not really though. DoAT era stuff would stomp the GE even harder true. it doesn't change that the IoM is way ahead of SW. we aren't really counting where the GE could be in 100 or 1000 years. we are taking what they got at their peak power as the galactic empire. so nothing after endor. heck with Rowboat in charge he is actually for the first time in a very long time getting the IoM to advance not just hold on against the endless hordes of Chaos, orks, tyranids and a myriad of other horrors. you can argue that they must lose. but if they have been building the same lasgun for 10000 years and it is a damn good lasgun learning to eak out 1.5% more power out of a bow by using a specific wood native only to kashyyyk or something isn't really gonna help. the las gun is just better.Another reason why IoM must lost - they still built the same stuff they built 10.000 before,or worst.
When GE is inventing new stuff every decade.
wouldn't know offhand. both got entire worlds dedicated for manufacturing and shipyards. pretty sure IoM has more though. 40k tends to go crazy with big numbers. death star while neat isn't that big of a game changer. it taking 4 years to make one and the resources that could have made a thousand or more ISDs? kind of a bad trade.i dunno, it took the GE 4 years to build the second deathstar, while building many other ships besides. Could IOM match that?
Imperial Storm Troopers lose against teddy-bears with stone age weapons.
Maybe they'd find it easier to actually land shots on an Ork charging at them with a chainsaw - bigger target after all.
the old stuff was better and irreplaceable. there is still a lot of production going on though. it is better to think of DaoT era stuff as precursor relics. stuff from 30k sometimes can still be made in limited quantities. sometimes it can't be made at all any more. there is still quite a bit of space ship production going on though. it is a galactic scale empire that has a lot of attrition in space. they would not have lasted 10,000 years without it.
not really though. DoAT era stuff would stomp the GE even harder true. it doesn't change that the IoM is way ahead of SW.
Which raises some questions about how that was measured.Those guys were also Palpatines "Most elite forces"
wouldn't know offhand. both got entire worlds dedicated for manufacturing and shipyards. pretty sure IoM has more though. 40k tends to go crazy with big numbers. death star while neat isn't that big of a game changer. it taking 4 years to make one and the resources that could have made a thousand or more ISDs? kind of a bad trade.
Do we have any examples like we have of the Empire building deathstars or spamming tens of thousands of ISDs?IoM also has a massive industrial capacity. at least as good and arguably better considering how well they can absorb losses.
Do they?
From what I've been told, their massive ornate battleships take centuries to build, and run on legacy technology that they no longer properly understand, even if they can still build more it it.
Contrast this with what one SWverse world (Exegol) can churn out in a couple of decades...
Its a small moon. I cant think of anything in the IOM to match it. Not even the phalanx. Sure, it would be better to make 1000+ SD, but the sheer industrial might to make something so vast in just 4 years speaks of immense productive power, something im not sure the IOM can match.
It is only the highest-end technology that they cannot replicate. Most of the massive ornate battleships are perfectly buildable.Do we have any examples like we have of the Empire building deathstars or spamming tens of thousands of ISDs?
Basically every time we hear about a ship's age it's thousands of years old. They even still have ships in service that predate the Imperium. That suggests a fairly weak industry if their attrition is that low and they still can only barely keep pace
You may cut rate of production for escorts, but the above rate of production for battleships and cruisers is pretty much set-in-stone minimum value.Around 5% of Imperial worlds are run by Mechanicum, but not all of them are forge worlds. If we assume 5% of those are full-on forge worlds, then Mechanicus has 50 000 worlds and 2 500 Forge Worlds. A shipyard may take several years to construct a Cobra class destroyer, a decade for a cruiser or a battlecruiser and a century for a battleship. A single Forge World may produce one or more cruisers per year as there will always be several in various stages of construction. Smaller worlds may take years to produce an escort, decades to produce a single cruiser or centuries for a battleship.
Based on the information above, it seems likely that each forge world is building 1 battleship, 10 cruisers and 50 destroyers concurrently. This means that rate of production will be 1 battleship per 100 years, 1 cruiser per year and 10 destroyers per year. With 2 500 forge worlds, total production will be 25 battleships, 2 500 cruisers and 25 000 destroyers per year. This unfortunately does not really help in establishing actual size of the fleet, as we do not have any other variable: warships can last for thousands of years, and are not really decommissioned, but rate at which ships are lost is not known either. Assuming average lifespan of 100 years would give a total fleet of over half a million ships. A ten thousand year lifespan with 90% loss rate would still result in fleet some 27,5 million strong. Loss rate would have to be above 99% for fleet to be at or below 2 million. However, number of warships cannot be significantly above the 2 million either, as the Imperial Navy is consistently portrayed as overstretched.
Not sure it is "new stuff". Canon does not give us enough information to say anything conclusively, but if we take EU into account, then Star Wars galaxy advances at about the same pace as the Imperium does.Another reason why IoM must lost - they still built the same stuff they built 10.000 before,or worst.
When GE is inventing new stuff every decade.
I'm not seeing where your getting any production numbers from. Without knowing attrition rate or even when, or if, a ship is decommissioned we can't determine how often a forge world would need to build a battleshipYou may cut rate of production for escorts, but the above rate of production for battleships and cruisers is pretty much set-in-stone minimum value.
It is only the highest-end technology that they cannot replicate. Most of the massive ornate battleships are perfectly buildable.
Not sure it is "new stuff". Canon does not give us enough information to say anything conclusively, but if we take EU into account, then Star Wars galaxy advances at about the same pace as the Imperium does.
Production numbers are estimates from canon information, specifically what I noted here:I'm not seeing where your getting any production numbers from. Without knowing attrition rate or even when, or if, a ship is decommissioned we can't determine how often a forge world would need to build a battleship
Battlefleet Gothic notes that Imperial Heavy Cruiser takes between three and 11 years to produce, so "a decade" I noted above is really the upper end of the estimate. Even if we assume that it is 11 years per cruiser per Forge World, and only 2 500 Forge Worlds (which again is basically minimum estimate) we get a minimum of 230 cruisers per year.A shipyard may take several years to construct a Cobra class destroyer, a decade for a cruiser or a battlecruiser and a century for a battleship. A single Forge World may produce one or more cruisers per year as there will always be several in various stages of construction. Smaller worlds may take years to produce an escort, decades to produce a single cruiser or centuries for a battleship.
Production numbers are estimates from canon information, specifically this:I'm not seeing where your getting any production numbers from. Without knowing attrition rate or even when, or if, a ship is decommissioned we can't determine how often a forge world would need to build a battleship
Battlefleet Gothic notes that Imperial Heavy Cruiser takes between three and 11 years to produce, so "a decade" I noted above is really the upper end of the estimate. Even if we assume that it is 11 years per cruiser per Forge World, and only 2 500 Forge Worlds (which again is basically minimum estimate) we get a minimum of 230 cruisers per year.A shipyard may take several years to construct a Cobra class destroyer, a decade for a cruiser or a battlecruiser and a century for a battleship. A single Forge World may produce one or more cruisers per year as there will always be several in various stages of construction. Smaller worlds may take years to produce an escort, decades to produce a single cruiser or centuries for a battleship.
Specifically for this scenario, why would Imperium need to "understand why it does what it does"? It will not make any difference in any timeline less than "centuries". Can the Empire hold out that long? And with Guilliman back, Mechanicum is again innovating.Still being able to make it is one thing, understanding why it does what it does is quite another.
Maybe. But even so, any major change will take decades.Well no - in the movies they clearly aren't as stagnant as some of the old EU materials implied.
Well there's a difference between being able to build a cruiser between 3-11 years and perpetually doing so .Battlefleet Gothic notes that Imperial Heavy Cruiser takes between three and 11 years to produce, so "a decade" I noted above is really the upper end of the estimate