Imperium of Man vs Galactic Empire

[King Arts]

Imperial ships have the most boring designs IMO its like someone told the engineer to give them big fucking triangles.

They look cool and are effective. Since it's design allows all the turrets to fire at the same time if facing fowards, yet if it's caught on it's side then it won't be any worse than Imperium battleships instead of with broadsides who can ONLY fire half their guns at the same time at most.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

They look cool and are effective. Since it's design allows all the turrets to fire at the same time if facing fowards, yet if it's caught on it's side then it won't be any worse than Imperium battleships instead of with broadsides who can ONLY fire half their guns at the same time at most.

The Republic tended to have the more aesthetically interesting designs IMO.

 

[King Arts]

The Republic tended to have the more aesthetically interesting designs IMO.

But they have the same design?
The only difference between the Imperial star destroyer and the Venator is a small size difference and that the Republic painted a red line on theirs while the empire just has a grey mono color.

 

[Husky_Khan]

But they have the same design?
The only difference between the Imperial star destroyer and the Venator is a small size difference and that the Republic painted a red line on theirs while the empire just has a grey mono color.

Same general design but the color scheme and smoothing out bits did make the Venators and other Republic era vessels to varying extents actually look very nice.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

But they have the same design?
The only difference between the Imperial star destroyer and the Venator is a small size difference and that the Republic painted a red line on theirs while the empire just has a grey mono color.

I was specifically thinking of stuff like the Valor Class Cruisers.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

I'd say the Galactic Empire would take this, thanks to having real time communication coupled with absurdly swift FTL. The Imperium would struggle to ever have the initiative and would be reduced to WWI-esque blind assault by time tables having completely lost the OODA loop. While the Empire could marshal ships from across the front for an overwhelming deep strike against a system, Base Delta Zero everything to cinders then pull back and return to their former positions before the Imperium realizes the ships have moved let alone one of their worlds have just ceased to exist.

 

[King Arts]

Same general design but the color scheme and smoothing out bits did make the Venators and other Republic era vessels to varying extents actually look very nice.

I don't think a color change is enough to qualify as a new or different design. But yes the color on the Venators does look better than just a plain gray.

I was specifically thinking of stuff like the Valor Class Cruisers.

Ahh you meant Old Republic era like the Hammerheads, not clone wars era Republic.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

I really must stress that the Imperium’s warships hilariously out range, outsize, and outclass basically anything Star Wars has. An Emperor class battleship could pound the Executor into scrap before the latter could get into weapons range (not that getting into a broadside contest with any Imperial battleship is advisable). Not to mention its officers are aristocratic yet deeply experienced hard arses, unlike the more political appointments in Palpatine’s Navy.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

I really must stress that the Imperium’s warships hilariously out range, outsize, and outclass basically anything Star Wars has. An Emperor class battleship could pound the Executor into scrap before the latter could get into weapons range (not that getting into a broadside contest with any Imperial battleship is advisable). Not to mention its officers are aristocratic yet deeply experienced hard arses, unlike the more political appointments in Palpatine’s Navy.

Problem is, thanks to the equally hilariously advantage the Galactic Empire has in communication and movement speed, the Imperium would have a difficult time exploiting those advantages. They'd almost always be the ones reacting while the GE could dictate the shape and time of the battlespace. If the GE needs a 100-1 advantage to ensure victory in a fleet battle then they can manage that.

 

[Blasterbot]

IoM would crush GE low diff. warp fuckery being less a thing would be weird to them. but they could adapt. Humans in 40k have had a whole lot of gene modding done to them over time hence why abhumans are a thing. point is they are gonna be above the baseline SW Humans. Xenos sometimes have bonus abilities over a human. usually not. GE using droids is gonna get the Mechanicus to bust out their big guns as well right from the start. droids might not be Men of Iron but they gonna be too close for comfort.

the various weapons are all sci fi bullshit but by feats I want to say that 40k tends to edge them out. which sci fi bullshittery you want to give it to could be supported with sources though since both have very high and low end feats.

Psykers and force sensitives are both very rare. normally I'd say force sensitive is slightly better generally since they got less downsides. that said it would only be palpies darksiders fielded or untrained force wielders here. so psykers would edge them out there.

in terms of military one is an empire that has made itself into a war machine for 10,000 years led by a demigod with a brain that out performs supercomputers. the other had to be handed a win by palpy who was playing both sides and then spent a few decades trying to put down guerrilla fighters. sure if palpy cuts loose he is gonna make a huge impression. he isn't a primarch though and exterminatus would be a valid response if you couldn't deal with him directly.

 

[ATP]

Problem is, thanks to the equally hilariously advantage the Galactic Empire has in communication and movement speed, the Imperium would have a difficult time exploiting those advantages. They'd almost always be the ones reacting while the GE could dictate the shape and time of the battlespace. If the GE needs a 100-1 advantage to ensure victory in a fleet battle then they can manage that.

That.They would knew where their enemies are,and how strong they are - when IoM would knew where their enemies were one year ago.
Sure,GE could lost some planets, but they would destroy IoM important systems by then - they have weapon capable of turning suns into nova.
Just do that in all important Mechanicus systems,and ask nicely IoM if they surrender,or not.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Problem is, thanks to the equally hilariously advantage the Galactic Empire has in communication and movement speed, the Imperium would have a difficult time exploiting those advantages. They'd almost always be the ones reacting while the GE could dictate the shape and time of the battlespace. If the GE needs a 100-1 advantage to ensure victory in a fleet battle then they can manage that.

Another side effect of a clean Warp is that psykers can now easily communicate across the galaxy. The warp being hell in cannon really limits what the Imperium can do.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Another side effect of a clean Warp is that psykers can now easily communicate across the galaxy. The warp being hell in cannon really limits what the Imperium can do.

Except we don't know what affect, if any, that would have since that has never been depicted. Prudence requires us to assume things operate normally to their universe.

Anything else and we're no longer debating 40k but your fanfic.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Except we don't know what affect, if any, that would have since that has never been depicted. Prudence requires us to assume things operate normally to their universe.

Anything else and we're no longer debating 40k but your fanfic.

Its pretty clearly stated that the state of the warp is what causes most problems for the Imperium as far as communications and travel go. Assuming things would just remain the same is kind of just forcing the status quo. Regardless cannon star wars which is being used here are pathetically underpowered to take on the Imperium of man.

 

[King Arts]

I really must stress that the Imperium’s warships hilariously out range, outsize, and outclass basically anything Star Wars has. An Emperor class battleship could pound the Executor into scrap before the latter could get into weapons range (not that getting into a broadside contest with any Imperial battleship is advisable). Not to mention its officers are aristocratic yet deeply experienced hard arses, unlike the more political appointments in Palpatine’s Navy.

Proof that Imperium ships outrange the empire? ICS calcs are pretty good and battle fleet gothic calcs can be pretty low.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Again the GE Empire having faster FTL is being a drastically overrated advantage, the GE isn't a von Neumann AI swarm they still need to find the planets and when they attack have sufficient fleets to take over the planet.

Average Empire fleets are just a handful of ISD's which I remind you in both canons cap at 25k, will also have to remember that the GE can't commit all of those ships because they'll have to defend their territory, assuming they use 50% of their ISD fleet because literally only ISD's have the fire power to beat a strike cruiser you're looking at 80 planets per Star Destroyer to conquer.

The ISD's Navy isn't big enough to blitz the Imperium's defenses and realistically they'd only be able to commit 12k ISD most of which would die before they realize anything below an ISD will be literal fodder when invading Imperium territory.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Its pretty clearly stated that the state of the warp is what causes most problems for the Imperium as far as communications and travel go. Assuming things would just remain the same is kind of just forcing the status quo. Regardless cannon star wars which is being used here are pathetically underpowered to take on the Imperium of man.

And if we had an example of a "clean" Warp communication time I'd be willing to use it. We don't.

Hell if we had a quote explicitly stating the time for a communication was solely because of its turbulent nature and that comminication would be far swift pre-war in heaven that would be something but we don't have that.

We have no basis to make any determination on com speed one way or the other. Attempting to do so is to move from arguing from Canon to your personal fanon.

I didn't say anything in regards to firepower however I believe it's equalized per ton meaning an ISD should be roughly on pae with an Escort which, while weak ships, can inflict damage if give the opertunity.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Again the GE Empire having faster FTL is being a drastically overrated advantage, the GE isn't a von Neumann AI swarm they still need to find the planets and when they attack have sufficient fleets to take over the planet.

Average Empire fleets are just a handful of ISD's which I remind you in both canons cap at 25k, will also have to remember that the GE can't commit all of those ships because they'll have to defend their territory, assuming they use 50% of their ISD fleet because literally only ISD's have the fire power to beat a strike cruiser you're looking at 80 planets per Star Destroyer to conquer.

The ISD's Navy isn't big enough to blitz the Imperium's defenses and realistically they'd only be able to commit 12k ISD most of which would die before they realize anything below an ISD will be literal fodder when invading Imperium territory.

Faster ftl and communications.

In otherworldly they can detect, analyze, prepare, launch and recall a strike against an Imperium world controlling the battles pace.

So a thousand ISDs can engage and destroy many times their total number piecemeal style while the Imperium is sluggishly trying to respond to long out dated information.

 

[King Arts]

Again the GE Empire having faster FTL is being a drastically overrated advantage, the GE isn't a von Neumann AI swarm they still need to find the planets and when they attack have sufficient fleets to take over the planet.

Average Empire fleets are just a handful of ISD's which I remind you in both canons cap at 25k, will also have to remember that the GE can't commit all of those ships because they'll have to defend their territory, assuming they use 50% of their ISD fleet because literally only ISD's have the fire power to beat a strike cruiser you're looking at 80 planets per Star Destroyer to conquer.

The ISD's Navy isn't big enough to blitz the Imperium's defenses and realistically they'd only be able to commit 12k ISD most of which would die before they realize anything below an ISD will be literal fodder when invading Imperium territory.

Again though the Imperium doesn’t have that many capital ships either it’s not like they have millions of dauntless or retribution classes. They probably also have a few thousand.

And if we had an example of a "clean" Warp communication time I'd be willing to use it. We don't.

Hell if we had a quote explicitly stating the time for a communication was solely because of its turbulent nature and that comminication would be far swift pre-war in heaven that would be something but we don't have that.

We have no basis to make any determination on com speed one way or the other. Attempting to do so is to move from arguing from Canon to your personal fanon.

I didn't say anything in regards to firepower however I believe it's equalized per ton meaning an ISD should be roughly on pae with an Escort which, while weak ships, can inflict damage if give the opertunity.

I’d say ISDs are stronger than escorts like sword or whatever they are proper capital ships on the same level as a cruiser.

The executor class would be equal to an emperor or retribution. Though there are less than 10 executors while there could be hundreds of retribution classes around maybe thousands.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Again the GE Empire having faster FTL is being a drastically overrated advantage, the GE isn't a von Neumann AI swarm they still need to find the planets and when they attack have sufficient fleets to take over the planet.

Average Empire fleets are just a handful of ISD's which I remind you in both canons cap at 25k, will also have to remember that the GE can't commit all of those ships because they'll have to defend their territory, assuming they use 50% of their ISD fleet because literally only ISD's have the fire power to beat a strike cruiser you're looking at 80 planets per Star Destroyer to conquer.

The ISD's Navy isn't big enough to blitz the Imperium's defenses and realistically they'd only be able to commit 12k ISD most of which would die before they realize anything below an ISD will be literal fodder when invading Imperium territory.

I don't think the Empire could avoid a collapse with the sort of horrific losses taking Imperium worlds would entail.