How much purchasing power would you be willing to lose to support Ukraine?

[History Learner]

Europe hasn't lost anything. You need to have something to lose it. It is not like someone told Europe they cannot drill for oil anymore. Europe has to adapt: from new energy sources, like nuclear, coal, wind and solar to less energy waste and imports from other places than Russia.

Where exactly are major oil deposits in Europe? Uranium? Whats the efficiency for Wind and Solar there and, while you're at it, who controls those supply chains? We can also do a quick glance at how Europe hasn't lost anything:

 

[IndyFront]

I support Ukraine but it is pretty obvious that Biden's America has other plans besides just "supporting Ukraine", they want another "unsinkable aircraft carrier" from which they can project power into the region, like Israel/Egypt or ASEAN/Japan

 

[Megadeath]

I support Ukraine but it is pretty obvious that Biden's America has other plans besides just "supporting Ukraine", they want another "unsinkable aircraft carrier" from which they can project power into the region, like Israel/Egypt or ASEAN/Japan

What actually gives you that idea? Is there anything that even suggests at it? Coz they and everyone else have been kicking the NATO membership can down the road, and when they talk about Ukraine's future defence it's in terms of what weapon systems they'll have to prevent another incursion rather than foreign trip wire forces. I've certainly not heard anything about future basing rights.

That said, if that is where things end up all the better. America are far from perfect but they're vastly better world police than anyone else could ir would be in the role, and everyone just going it alone is tremendously wasteful and vastly more dangerous. The better they can enforce pax Americana the better it is for the world, even if it does occasionally inconvenience other countries, or mean they get the bigger piece of cake in most deals.

 

[IndyFront]

What actually gives you that idea? Is there anything that even suggests at it? Coz they and everyone else have been kicking the NATO membership can down the road, and when they talk about Ukraine's future defence it's in terms of what weapon systems they'll have to prevent another incursion rather than foreign trip wire forces. I've certainly not heard anything about future basing rights.

That said, if that is where things end up all the better. America are far from perfect but they're vastly better world police than anyone else could ir would be in the role, and everyone just going it alone is tremendously wasteful and vastly more dangerous. The better they can enforce pax Americana the better it is for the world, even if it does occasionally inconvenience other countries, or mean they get the bigger piece of cake in most deals.

Chill. Nobody suggested this was a bad thing, but my point is that it is naive to think there aren't ulterior motives to Biden supporting Ukraine.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Chill. Nobody suggested this was a bad thing, but my point is that it is naive to think there aren't ulterior motives to Biden supporting Ukraine.

Blackrock is already apparently going to be involved in the reconstruction, I'm sure that will go over great. From the Ukrainian perspective it'll be like "So we fought a war to trad Russian oligarchs for American oligarchs?"

 

[IndyFront]

Blackrock is already apparently going to be involved in the reconstruction, I'm sure that will go over great. From the Ukrainian perspective it'll be like "So we fought a war to trad Russian oligarchs for American oligarchs?"

Yep. Basically. It's not inherently a good or bad thing, it just is what it is.

 

[Megadeath]

Chill. Nobody suggested this was a bad thing, but my point is that it is naive to think there aren't ulterior motives to Biden supporting Ukraine.

The ulterior motive is the obvious one. Stopping Russia from regaining power. Along with not thinking your suggested outcome was a bad thing, I asked if there was anything to support it. Can you provide anything that does?

Blackrock is already apparently going to be involved in the reconstruction, I'm sure that will go over great. From the Ukrainian perspective it'll be like "So we fought a war to trad Russian oligarchs for American oligarchs?"

There's a pretty significant difference between russian kleptocracy and the unequal power distribution of the West. It's naive and ridiculous to think that large corporations wouldn't be involved in the monumental task of rebuilding Ukraine, and whilst that undoubtedly will lead to sweetheart deals, quid pro quo agreements and shady dealing, it's still significantly less awful for everyone involved then the russian "smash and grab" approach. It should also be somewhat minimised by the large, public and politically and nationally vital anti-corruption push Ukraine are having.

 

[ATP]

Where exactly are major oil deposits in Europe? Uranium? Whats the efficiency for Wind and Solar there and, while you're at it, who controls those supply chains? We can also do a quick glance at how Europe hasn't lost anything:

We had gheotermal energy and coal.Which could be turned into oil cheaply now.
All we need is get rid of soviet allies,who made us close coal mines.

 

[History Learner]

We had gheotermal energy and coal.Which could be turned into oil cheaply now.
All we need is get rid of soviet allies,who made us close coal mines.

Coal has a lower energy deficiency than other energy sources, requiring more of it to be used for the same energy output. Likewise, coal Liquefaction infrastructure doesn't currently exist in Europe and is rather expensive to build too.

 

[IndyFront]

The ulterior motive is the obvious one. Stopping Russia from regaining power.

You really think Hunter and co didn't have invested interests in Ukraine? Look, as I've stated before, I support Ukraine in their endeavor against Russian imperialism, but to think Biden is simply doing this because "he cares" about Ukraine is absurd, which was my original point.

 

[ATP]

Coal has a lower energy deficiency than other energy sources, requiring more of it to be used for the same energy output. Likewise, coal Liquefaction infrastructure doesn't currently exist in Europe and is rather expensive to build too.

Old methods -yes.New one,made in Japan or Poland - not so.
And,we still could live on gheotermal energy aside from that.

 

[History Learner]

Old methods -yes.New one,made in Japan or Poland - not so.

Whats the new method?

And,we still could live on gheotermal energy aside from that.

What is the capacity?

 

[ATP]

Whats the new method?


What is the capacity?

Methods.Check yourself.
2.Enough to power half of Poland,if we use it.

 

[LordsFire]

I support Ukraine but it is pretty obvious that Biden's America has other plans besides just "supporting Ukraine", they want another "unsinkable aircraft carrier" from which they can project power into the region, like Israel/Egypt or ASEAN/Japan

I agree with your greater point that the US has some ulterior motives in Ukraine, and Biden may not be capable of benevolence anymore given how systematically he's worn away his own conscience, but...

Thinking the US wants Ukraine for airbases is just showing your ignorance on this subject. Every NATO nation in Europe is already available for the US to use as airbases. While another one doesn't hurt, it's not some special regional ability the US lacks and wants to pick up.

 

[History Learner]

Methods.Check yourself.

Nope, you made the claim, burden of proof is on you.

2.Enough to power half of Poland,if we use it.

I doubt that, so provide a source.

 

[IndyFront]

I agree with your greater point that the US has some ulterior motives in Ukraine, and Biden may not be capable of benevolence anymore given how systematically he's worn away his own conscience, but...

Thinking the US wants Ukraine for airbases is just showing your ignorance on this subject. Every NATO nation in Europe is already available for the US to use as airbases. While another one doesn't hurt, it's not some special regional ability the US lacks and wants to pick up.

You really think Hunter and co didn't have invested interests in Ukraine? Look, as I've stated before, I support Ukraine in their endeavor against Russian imperialism, but to think Biden is simply doing this because "he cares" about Ukraine is absurd, which was my original point.

 

[Zachowon]

Burisma was pro Russian and was wanted by Ukraine...

 

[Megadeath]

You really think Hunter and co didn't have invested interests in Ukraine? Look, as I've stated before, I support Ukraine in their endeavor against Russian imperialism, but to think Biden is simply doing this because "he cares" about Ukraine is absurd, which was my original point.

I'm pretty sure no one is claiming they're doing it out of altruism. But there's no need to imagine vague, shadowy reasons that you're apparently incapable of providing anything but insinuation to back up. It hurts Russia. That's in America's interest. That it's also the right thing to do is basically a bonus.

 

[IndyFront]

I'm pretty sure no one is claiming they're doing it out of altruism. But there's no need to imagine vague, shadowy reasons that you're apparently incapable of providing anything but insinuation to back up. It hurts Russia. That's in America's interest. That it's also the right thing to do is basically a bonus.

OK you're going on my ignore list, probably one of Rufus's trolls lurking about various forums

 

[Agent23]

We had gheotermal energy and coal.Which could be turned into oil cheaply now.
All we need is get rid of soviet allies,who made us close coal mines.

Kurwa!
(Meant as an exclamation, not an insult.)
I say it before, I will say it again.

Build nuclear power plants, NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS!!!111
Budowa elektrowni jądrowych.