How much purchasing power would you be willing to lose to support Ukraine?

How much purchasing power would you be willing to lose to support Ukraine?

  • 10%

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • 15%

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 20%

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • 30%

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • 30%+ and a bunch of refugees, I am fine paying 20$ a gallon.

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • 0%

    Votes: 17 68.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
You still need Natural Gas for industrial process applications and things like fertilizer until Gen IV Fission or Fusion gets sorted out.

For nitrogen fertilizer yeah but regardless if people didn't have to waste gas on things like heating homes due to having more nuclear power plants that would have a dramatic effect on demand.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
WTF, you guys are still discussing shit in this thread despite the poll closing...?!?!
I mean, I kinda know why Marduk and WolfBoy are still posting here, I am surprised I see normal people... 😂 :sneaky:
Nowadays Poland is more homophobic than Ukraine is in terms of its policies/situation, which is interesting:

EX9b39yX0AAHDJe-1080x675.jpg
Yeah, no, combining so many metrics in a single poll is IMHO bullshit, also don't forget that LGBTQKFC virtue signalling from authorities is a way to suck up to the west/hegemon. ;)

In any case, I think that you will have as much pushback and danger of legal prosecution against sticking cucumbers, carrots and various pieces of china-made plastic with dubious health benefits coated in petroleum-based lubricants up your poop chute or getting your throat swabbed by a male excretory organ in both countries.

Which is probably zero.

This is eastern Europe, people have real problems and as long as you are not advertising your favorite kinks no one will give a damn.
 

ATP

Well-known member
The problem was this was never about geopolitical goals for Germany; Russian gas just made economic sense after they turned against Nuclear following the 1998 elections. American gas isn't competitive naturally against Russian.

No,idiot germans tried conqer Europe using kgb gas.Forget,that ,if they succed,kgb would rule them,too.
Fortunatelly,genius putin prevented that.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
The problem was this was never about geopolitical goals for Germany; Russian gas just made economic sense after they turned against Nuclear following the 1998 elections. American gas isn't competitive naturally against Russian.

Not surprising considering that a Russian lapdog won in Germany in 1998 (and 2002):


I'm surprised that Germany green-lighted the Baltic countries' NATO accession in 2004 with him in charge, honestly.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
What russians? they are long dead.And postsoviets decided some time ago sell gas to China anyway.
And - it is good for Europe.Now,we must come back to coal,no matter what green idiots think/or tather not think/
In some industrial processes the use of gas is more efficient, in others it is unavoidable.

Coal plants are larger and more expensive and complex and less flexible than gas turbines and also require a lot of water and produce a lot of stuff you do not want to breathe in.Soot, mercury, small amounts of radon, SO2, nitrogen oxide.
People working at nuclear power plants are actually in less risk of cancer than coal miners for interlace, and you can easily stockpile enough uranium to meet your baseline needs for decades in the space where you won't be able to fit enough coal to power a small town for a year.

A coal plant needs about a day to get started for instance, that is not a problem with a gas turbine.

Coal is fine for baseload consumption increases when you need more power consistently, like say in winter, or during the summer when you have more AC usage, and most thermal plants where I am are still coal-fired ones despite the green lunacy making them switch in part to gas.

But for in-day spikes and even cooking stuff at home and some forms of home heating gas is best.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
In some industrial processes the use of gas is more efficient, in others it is unavoidable.

Coal plants are larger and more expensive and complex and less flexible than gas turbines and also require a lot of water and produce a lot of stuff you do not want to breathe in.Soot, mercury, small amounts of radon, SO2, nitrogen oxide.
People working at nuclear power plants are actually in less risk of cancer than coal miners for interlace, and you can easily stockpile enough uranium to meet your baseline needs for decades in the space where you won't be able to fit enough coal to power a small town for a year.

A coal plant needs about a day to get started for instance, that is not a problem with a gas turbine.

Coal is fine for baseload consumption increases when you need more power consistently, like say in winter, or during the summer when you have more AC usage, and most thermal plants where I am are still coal-fired ones despite the green lunacy making them switch in part to gas.

But for in-day spikes and even cooking stuff at home and some forms of home heating gas is best.
Modern technology negate most bad effects.And,you could change coal into gas cheaply,at least Poland have that technology.
Besides,for countries like Poland biogas is alternative.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Modern technology negate most bad effects.And,you could change coal into gas cheaply,at least Poland have that technology.
Besides,for countries like Poland biogas is alternative.
The way I see the power stack is like this:
1) Nuclear, for all the reasons I listed above.
2) Hydropower, which is actually quite cheap, all things considered:
At US$0.05/kWh, hydroelectricity remains the lowest-cost source of electricity worldwide, according to a recent report by the International Renewable Energy Agency, entitled Renewable Power Generation Costs in 2017.
Coal for winter thermal generation and extra power during predictable anal increases as well as industries that need it, like steel production.Might help out in droughts if hydro generates less energy, but in other areas you have enough water.

Gas for industries that require it (glass, chemicals, fertilizers and polymers)and for more flexibility, like cooking, heating places where it is not going to be as feasible to use central thermal plants or heating via electricity.Probably better in case of droughts.

A mix of gas and coal and petroleum products and wood for less dense areas, villages and the like.

A coal or wood stove is fine for cooking, cheaper than electricity and a village with 50-100 houses spaced burning coal/wood/pellets/brickets will still have cleaner air than downtown even if the downtown in question uses gas to power its thermal plant.

Solar - can probably help out rural areas in the summertime, with things like refrigeration and ACs during the hottest part of the day, maybe work as supplemental energy in time of droughts, when coal and hydro are impaired.
 
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History Learner

Well-known member
What russians? they are long dead.And postsoviets decided some time ago sell gas to China anyway.
And - it is good for Europe.Now,we must come back to coal,no matter what green idiots think/or tather not think/

Not sure what you mean with the first, but on the case of energy, @Agent23 is largely correct coal just isn't as effective nor that available in Europe nowadays. Likewise, it's not just a matter of energy at this point:

 

ATP

Well-known member
Not sure what you mean with the first, but on the case of energy, @Agent23 is largely correct coal just isn't as effective nor that available in Europe nowadays. Likewise, it's not just a matter of energy at this point:


Poland had coal for 400 years.But,our eunuchs agreed to german demand and closed part of mines.Now,we could come back to being normal.
And soviets decided in 2021,that they would sell their gas to Asia,not germany - so,it do not change.No soviet gas for Europe.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Poland had coal for 400 years.But,our eunuchs agreed to german demand and closed part of mines.Now,we could come back to being normal.
And soviets decided in 2021,that they would sell their gas to Asia,not germany - so,it do not change.No soviet gas for Europe.
190 years, actually, at current consumption.Bulgaria has 75 years of proven reserves, and both Poland and we import coal for some bloody reason.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
190 years, actually, at current consumption.Bulgaria has 75 years of proven reserves, and both Poland and we import coal for some bloody reason.

Which mean,than our reserves would stand when postsoviets would run out of gas and oil.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
Poland had coal for 400 years.But,our eunuchs agreed to german demand and closed part of mines.Now,we could come back to being normal.
And soviets decided in 2021,that they would sell their gas to Asia,not germany - so,it do not change.No soviet gas for Europe.

Which means Europe has lost 40% of its natural gas and something like 30-40% of its oil supply. Coal can't make up for that, and we are seeing the effects:

FjSEaAHX0AELp2B
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Aaand some people tried to explain to you the various problems with coal...
Which mostly do not longer exist,thanks to modern technologies,and cheap methods of turning coal into gas or oil.
Not mention those green energy which actually work - like gheotermy.
 

Pef

Member

30%+ and a bunch of refugees, I am fine paying 20$ a gallon.


I think we are all paying more than this already, with inflation and food prices going over 30%. Somebody has decided it was a reasonable price to place on everyone on the planet.
As for refugees, it depends on the country. Some countries took millions, others none.
Which means Europe has lost 40% of its natural gas and something like 30-40% of its oil supply. Coal can't make up for that, and we are seeing the effects:

Europe hasn't lost anything. You need to have something to lose it. It is not like someone told Europe they cannot drill for oil anymore. Europe has to adapt: from new energy sources, like nuclear, coal, wind and solar to less energy waste and imports from other places than Russia.
 

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