Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel

[King Arts]

Incidentally... it is interesting that the jewish oligarchs who are fucking over Israel keep on blaming usa and europe for all those problems.
"foreign corruption" they call it. "corrupt chicago diaspora jewish politicians coming to israel and bringing their american corruption with them". "eu and usa force us to accept rapefugees" they say.

Their argument is that the state of Israel is illegitimate abomination before God. So they refuse to protect it, isreal should be dissolved and jewish males should study the torah all day while their wives work to put food on the table and birth a dozen children each. until we have studied the torah enough for god to forgive our sins and come down from the heaven and kill all the goys for us.

Despite not recognizing the legitimacy of israel though, they still vote... but they all vote for the Haredy party which then sells off their votes to other parties in exchange for tax exemptions, govt gibs shekels to every registered haredy household (stolen from the non haredy tax payers), and draft exemption...

I am actually baffled at their recent change to this policy where they finally started to serve in the military. it is a huge drastic change from previous policy. I am not sure what exactly their leaders are planning with this. as they do all their planning face to face to avoid electronic surveillance. (same as what the hamas leaders did btw)

Hmm... maybe they are thinking they have big enough pop now to perform a coup? and are hoping to take over enough of the military so they can do it and install a jewish version of hamas into power?
and obviously slaughter all the heretics who are not part of the haredy party.

Well fuck that's much scarier than I thought. I thought they were just wellfare queens who do nothing but pray and study all day while the women work, and sell their vote to whoever allows them to continue that lifestyle.

But a Jewish version of Hamas sounds not fun, especially if they launch a coup.

 

[Pocky Balboa]

You may wish to review the RC definitions of schism, schismatic, heresy, and heretic. It very much still is the official position of the RC, on a definitional basis. The Curia, or at least portions thereof, have simply decided that ecumenicalism is a better (and more practical) means of serving the divine intent than the tried, and not so effective, approach of crusades and inquisitions.

He's saying you're wrong about this part:

That is also, of course the position of every other Christian sect with regards to every other Christian sect.

 

[DarthOne]

We're used to leftist bullshit here, so please don't use motte and bailey tactics, it just makes you look bad.

And that hypothesis completely doesn't fit with the fact that then you proceeded to do like a textbook application of Motte and Bailey rhetorical tactic.

The fuck does the topic at hand has with COVID-19?
No, suspicion is warranted in unusual events.
Islamists launching a perfidious attack to massacre some civilians? That's as predictable as North Korea saber rattling, Africa being poor and China hating Taiwan.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But we are nowhere near anything that could be considered extraordinary.

Oh thank you very much for magnanimously allowing me to have an opinion.

Well then, you failed to be civil.
I didn't accuse you of holocaust denial, merely compared your logic in casting implied suspicions of conspiracy regarding the events at hand to that of those of such malicious conspiracy theorists.
So, you fucking retarded vatnik loving analphabetic troglodyte, go back to school to learn some reading comprehension.

That's right. Run from the Bailey and hide in your Motte, and better stay there for your own good.
You made a conscious choice to make this specific kind of speculation, and it's not out of the ordinary for you to make speculations pointed at certain... geopolitical factions in the world, but never others, and you stuck with that specific speculation until other posters attacked it in a concentrated manner.

You think i would not be able to use the search engine to quickly see all your posting in this thread? One post? Really?
Lemme remind you, you have spent days in this thread, trying to "speculate" that there is no way the mainstream interpretation of these events could not be correct, while leaving it up to the reader to come up with subtly suggested alternative, conspirationist interpretations.
And then you got less subtle here, indirectly implying "US political and military establishment" into the operation.
"but i was only speculating" you say.
You also made another "cui bono" post trying to subtly imply Israel.
And another one, to add insult to injury, referencing the commonly known, and not taken seriously in polite society 9/11 theories...
And when you get confronted on that, you coyly go "oh it was mostly speculation".

So yeah, just one post, just innocent speculation.
Tell that to someone who doesn't read your bullshit.

So, you like speculation? Lemme give you a taste of your own medicine then.
How interesting that in your copious production of speculations on this forum, i can't remind myself of any case of your speculation putting a country that could be considered hostile to NATO and geopolitical West in a bad light, preferably worse than the mainstream interpretation of the events being speculated about.
After all, you regularly do that for West aligned countries.
Could you point everyone to some such cases? Or shall we speculate further about this pattern?

You know what? I’m done. I’m done arguing with you and trying to convince you. I’m done with this forum. And I’m done with your disingenuous assertions.

Oh and the reason why I don’t both to speculate on nations like China or other nations hostile to the West? Is because they are already enemies. I’m less inclined to speculate about the nation that hates my guts and makes no secret about it then I am feckless allies.

 

[King Arts]

You know people have been saying this is good for Bibi. Because his government was facing problems but now it has a brand new mandate and popularity because of a 9/11 effect.

What did Hamas achieve from this exactly?
>Attack a bunch of civilians at a festival to declare war
>Zero military or govt targets hit
>Zero objectives within Israel achieved
>Netanyahu's deeply unpopular govt given a new lease of life
>Gaza getting raised to the ground as a result
Is hamas just retarded due to 85 average IQ or did they intend to an hero collectively?

 

[Navarro]

Security chiefs got wind of something amiss in Gaza, thought it was a drill – reports

Netanyahu says he was updated only when devastating Hamas infiltration began at 6:29 a.m. Saturday; reports say top brass had 'scraps' of info, didn't raise alert or boost forces

www.timesofisrael.com

Senior IDF and security officials reportedly held an assessment hours before the start of Hamas’s brutal onslaught on southern Israel on Saturday morning, having received “weak scraps” of information that something was afoot, but concluded that the activity in Gaza was likely a drill.
In response to the reports, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had not received any intelligence warnings from the security establishment before the start of the devastating mass Hamas infiltration, in which some 1,300 people were killed as terrorists rampaged across communities in southern Israel.
“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was updated at exactly 06:29 on Saturday, and not before, upon the outbreak of the fighting,” the Prime Minister’s Office said in a statement. “He immediately went to the Kirya [military headquarters in Tel Aviv], held an assessment of the situation and convened the Security Cabinet.”

The reports said that senior military and Shin bet officials, including IDF Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi, held phone discussions just a few hours before Hamas’s devastating infiltration, after indications of irregularities were noted.
The generals reportedly concluded that the activity in Gaza was probably a drill, and agreed to hold further discussions in the morning. They reportedly chose not to raise an alert or boost forces to the Gaza border area, since the issue was not considered pressing.



The IDF had long touted its security fence, with cameras, watchtowers and hi-tech sensors, as providing security to residents of Gaza border towns. But early Saturday, Hamas terrorists knocked chunks of it aside with explosives and bulldozers at multiple locations, then drove right through the gaping holes in jeeps and on motorcycles, while others sailed over in hang gliders, as drones dropped explosives on observation towers and took out cameras. Amid a simultaneous rocket barrage across southern and central Israel, an estimated 1,500 terrorists stormed into southern Israel and slaughtered soldiers and civilians alike, with some local resistance but the military hierarchy slow to react.
Reports on Thursday cited two sets of telephone conversations held overnight Friday-Saturday between the Shin Bet security service’s southern district chief, IDF military intelligence, the IDF’s operations branch and the Southern Command, as well as Halevi. A separate consultation was hosted by Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar, Haaretz reported.

While the Shin Bet assessed the information presented as “weak scraps,” the agency did fear the possibility of a kidnapping attempt and dispatched a small operations team to the south. No other steps were taken, Haaretz reported. During the mass infiltration on Saturday, the small Shin Bet team participated in the fighting at one of the kibbutzim attacked by Hamas, and some of its members were injured.
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IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said Thursday morning that there were no major intelligence warnings, but confirmed there were some small early signs.
“There was no such warning. The signs that came up hours before could be based on different intelligence signs,” Hagari said.

So, so far as we can tell, Israeli intel did detect signs of an attack (and even that was just "weak scraps") but thought it was far more small scale than it ended up being.

Not everything is an elaborate conspiracy. Intel agencies aren't as hyper-competent as they make themselves out to be, and they have a lot of noise to sift through to get any hint of a signal.

Is hamas just retarded due to 85 average IQ or did they intend to an hero collectively?

Both, it seems. Hamas thinks it can conquer the world and was planning to occupy the area long term - even now it's ignoring the massive army at its borders to keep on firing terror rockets at civilians...Its leaders are also delusional fanatic psychopaths living in Qatar who see the people in Gaza as pretty much completely expendable in the name of carrying out jihad.

 

[The One Char]

You know people have been saying this is good for Bibi. Because his government was facing problems but now it has a brand new mandate and popularity because of a 9/11 effect.

What did Hamas achieve from this exactly?
>Attack a bunch of civilians at a festival to declare war
>Zero military or govt targets hit
>Zero objectives within Israel achieved
>Netanyahu's deeply unpopular govt given a new lease of life
>Gaza getting raised to the ground as a result
Is hamas just retarded due to 85 average IQ or did they intend to an hero collectively?

They expected to get stomped by the IDF in about five minutes going by seized orders. It should be noted that I'm of the opinion whatever the flaws Israel has Gaza and Hamas are far worse, being a sadly rabid pack of dogs that must be put down. @ThatZenoGuy and @DarthOne Are having an understandably hard time squaring that monstrous fact.

 

[Marduk]

You know people have been saying this is good for Bibi. Because his government was facing problems but now it has a brand new mandate and popularity because of a 9/11 effect.

What did Hamas achieve from this exactly?
>Attack a bunch of civilians at a festival to declare war
>Zero military or govt targets hit
>Zero objectives within Israel achieved

From some statements by their leaders it seems taking hostages with intent to exchange them for favors and prisoners in the future was a major objective, if not the main one, and it was fulfilled beyond expectations.
Other than that, usual terror, you can question if it is a good strategy, but it is their strategy.
In light of the Shalit deal they got in the past, it's not that crazy they would expect good deals.
They may have made a miscalculation in how much terror to go with in addition to the hostage taking and sinking negotiations before they even started, time will tell, but it did achieve considerable "jihadi rep" gain for them, as you can see from the discussions in... media not aimed at western audiences, most likely with an expectation of money and other aid from them. As far as the world of aloha snackbar goes, they have now picked the banner of the new superstars after ISIL faded away.

>Netanyahu's deeply unpopular govt given a new lease of life

On incredibly high interest. There is an incredibly aggressive scapegoat seeking operation going on in Israel now, and it is more likely than not that some blame for the security failures will get pinned on him and kill his career. If he aces the retaliation, he may be able to defend himself from it, but less than stellar course of further events could also cement his downfall.

>Gaza getting raised to the ground as a result

Then Israel has to occupy the place, while various useful idiots from the world start talking of rebuilding it with own money in few months or at worst, years.
In the end they get better opportunities for skirmishing with Israel, in their circles something that gives them an edge over Fatah in terms of being THE resistance organization. It's not like they are going to be better at running civil service, soliciting foreign aid or something after all.

Is hamas just retarded due to 85 average IQ or did they intend to an hero collectively?

Umm, what did you expect from an organization that has a whole ideology built around an heroing collectively, individually, and even "volunteering" others to do it?

 

[King Arts]

From some statements by their leaders it seems taking hostages with intent to exchange them for favors and prisoners in the future was a major objective, if not the main one, and it was fulfilled beyond expectations.
Other than that, usual terror, you can question if it is a good strategy, but it is their strategy.
In light of the Shalit deal they got in the past, it's not that crazy they would expect good deals.
They may have made a miscalculation in how much terror to go with in addition to the hostage taking and sinking negotiations before they even started, time will tell, but it did achieve considerable "jihadi rep" gain for them, as you can see from the discussions in... media not aimed at western audiences, most likely with an expectation of money and other aid from them.

I mean yeah getting a deal where you give one guy back to get 1000 is good. But they won't get as good a deal because with 1000 prisoners does Israel have a million Hamas prisoners?

On incredibly high interest. There is an incredibly aggressive scapegoat seeking operation going on in Israel now, and it is more likely than not that some blame for the security failures will get pinned on him and kill his career. If he aces the retaliation, he may be able to defend himself from it, but less than stellar course of further events could also cement his downfall.

There is no way he could fuck it up. I mean there is no reason for him to go soft on Hamas. I've heard they started using white phosphorous. If I was Bibi I would probably seriously consider using mass chemical weapon strikes on Gaza.

Then Israel has to occupy the place, while various useful idiots from the world start talking of rebuilding it with own money in few months or at worst, years.
In the end they get better opportunities for skirmishing with Israel, in their circles something that gives them an edge over Fatah in terms of being THE resistance organization. It's not like they are going to be better at running civil service, soliciting foreign aid or something after all.

If mass bombardment/gas attacks were used would there be enough people left in Gaza for the Palestinians to see Hamas as anything than the harbinger of their own destruction. There would be a few thousand survivors but Gaza is small and Hamas probably does not have gas masks to protect against chemicals.

Umm, what did you expect from an organization that has a whole ideology built around an heroing collectively, individually, and even "volunteering" others to do it?

I mean there is a differance between being willing to sacrafice yourself if you have a goal to hurt the enemy. But well again Israel is not seriously hurt here. How many Jews are there in Israel. Even if they don't rescue the hostages and the 1000 are lost for good. The state of Israel would not be weaker. The individual jews and their famillies in this situation would be affected yes, but the state as a whole is fine.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

whatever the flaws Israel has Gaza and Hamas are far worse

For who?

 

[Bacle]

Reminder 'Palestine' is an invention of Yassar Arafat, and never existed before that.

 

[mrttao]

Reminder 'Palestine' is an invention of Yassar Arafat, and never existed before that.

Actually the term was invented by the UK in the year 1920.
When Britain conquered the land from the Ottoman empire they decided to call it the Mandatory Palestine territory.
It existed from 1920 to 1948

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was never a Palestinian state though or a Palestinian nation, or a Palestinian people. A multi ethnic society with no "natives"

Palestine had an assigned British high commissioner. underneath him were
Parliamentary body of the Muslim Community
Parliamentary body of the Jewish Community

The twatter post is correct that there has never been a "palestinian state" there.
That is largely irrelevant though.

 

[Bacle]

Actually the term was invented by the UK in the year 1920.
When Britain conquered the land from the Ottoman empire they decided to call it the Mandatory Palestine territory.
It existed from 1920 to 1948

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was never a Palestinian state though or a Palestinian nation.
Palestine had an assigned British high commissioner. underneath him were
Parliamentary body of the Muslim Community
Parliamentary body of the Jewish Community

Yes, the British Mandate; there was no Palestinian state, and that is the key point.

It does seem Israel is saying they will release the seige of Gaza if all hostages are returned, but are not going to stop striking Hamas infrastructure and positions in the mean time.



Also, folks, just be watchful and careful tomorrow, those Hamas cells that infil'd the west over the years might be getting activated for the big one now.

 

[Prince Ire]

'Palestinian statehood' is a lie created by Yassar Arafat and his allies in the neighboring Arab nations, nothing more or less.

Statehood and nationhood are hardly the same thing, or was their no Polish nation for the entire 19th century? Austria-Hungary was a state but not a nation, while the Basques are a nation but not a state.

 

[Marduk]

I mean yeah getting a deal where you give one guy back to get 1000 is good. But they won't get as good a deal because with 1000 prisoners does Israel have a million Hamas prisoners?

Well it might by the time this is over
More seriously though, while the number Hamas got for Shalit is impressive, numbers aren't everything, and Israel (and other countries) probably have some important people they couldn't get even for Shalit.

There is no way he could fuck it up. I mean there is no reason for him to go soft on Hamas. I've heard they started using white phosphorous. If I was Bibi I would probably seriously consider using mass chemical weapon strikes on Gaza.

If you have heard the same case i've heard then it's a low effort troll using footage of Russians doing it in Ukraine.
Yes, there is no reason for him to go soft, but if, say, there are major losses in the attack, he fails the diplomacy and gets Israel hit with EU sanctions, Iran or its proxies manage to pull off something big, or something like that, he will have a big problem. There is a whole minefield of ways he could be screwed before this is over.

If mass bombardment/gas attacks were used would there be enough people left in Gaza for the Palestinians to see Hamas as anything than the harbinger of their own destruction. There would be a few thousand survivors but Gaza is small and Hamas probably does not have gas masks to protect against chemicals.

There is a massively underappreciated part of this conflict involved here, namely the relationship between Palestinians, Israel and the wider Arab, even Muslim world.
The jihadi faction couldn't care less about the future of Palestinian population, as if they weren't clear enough about that in all their actions.
They care about killing Jews and taking as much of land away from them and returning it to Dar Al-Islam as possible. No amount of dead Palestinians is too many for them, and in fact if it took all of them, however unlikely that is, these people would expect the rest of Muslim world to fill in for them and do the rest of the fighting, inspired by their martyrdom.

I mean there is a differance between being willing to sacrafice yourself if you have a goal to hurt the enemy. But well again Israel is not seriously hurt here. How many Jews are there in Israel. Even if they don't rescue the hostages and the 1000 are lost for good. The state of Israel would not be weaker. The individual jews and their famillies in this situation would be affected yes, but the state as a whole is fine.

If terror attacks were good at attaining direct military goals there would be no distinction between one and another, and all armies would do the same things terrorist organizations do, just better.
Look at what USA did in reaction to 9/11, and that proportionally hit an even smaller portion of population. Terrorism is not about the number of people it kills and manpower/economic/military loss this translates to (that's just plain total war/mass murder/genocide), but about sending a message to the rest.

 

[mrttao]

Yes, the British Mandate; there was no Palestinian state, and that is the key point.

Yes, just wanted to clarify that the term Palestine was not invented by Arafat.
Regardless, racial history is largely irrelevant here.

 

[Bacle]

So Russia provided Hamas intel and western trophy weapons captured from Ukraine.

 

[Morphic Tide]

Yes, just wanted to clarify that the term Palestine was not invented by Arafat.

IIRC, it somewhat was because it was derived from, but not the direct use of, the term the Romans used when they turned the area into a province, which was in turn derived but distinct from "Philistine" as a way to get across how severely the Hebrews fucked up to go from "client kingdom" to "province".

 

[Prince Ire]

Reminder 'Palestine' is an invention of Yassar Arafat, and never existed before that.

Lots of nations had never been states at any point in history prior to their independence. You are just utterly ignorant about the history of nationalism and cannot differentiate between the idea of the state and the idea of the nation.

 

[Bacle]

Lots of nations had never been states at any point in history prior to their independence. You are just utterly ignorant about the history of nationalism and cannot differentiate between the idea of the state and the idea of the nation.

I'm just not going to pretend that Palestine is anything other than a lie cooked up by Yassar Arafat.

 

[Prince Ire]

I'm just not going to pretend that Palestine is anything other than a lie cooked up by Yassar Arafat.

Whatever lie you want to tell yourself so that you can pretend you don't want to commit cultural genocide. Your good buddy Putin thinks the same thing about Ukraine.