Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel

[Tiamat]

You guys forget, finding a way to blame the West/US allies for anything bad that happens, finding ways to cast doubt on any alliance the US is part of, and finding ways to ignore what the enemies of the west do in a desire to 'whatabout' everything is all DarthOne does anymore.

He's a vatnik loving contrarian Right-Wing NPC who cares more about 'opposing the current thing' than anything else.

Look, I do not want to dogpile on anyone or call names. But victim blaming in the wake of this heinous shit? That is crossing a line.

 

[Bacle]

Look, I do not want to dogpile on anyone or call names. But victim blaming in the wake of this heinous shit? That is crossing a line.

He takes fucking MacGregor seriously, vatnik lover seems appropriate, and I'm past the point of reasoning with him, instead of just mocking him, when he's this much of a Right Wing NPC who is proving horseshoe theory of politics right more every day.

That he insists on doing it in this thread, about this issue, and in this fashion at this time...I don't think he likes Hamas, but he really doesn't seem to care how many people they kill, so long as it's not on US soil. He doesn't even seem to care that US citizens are hostages, and wants to blame them for going to Israel when an attack of this type and magnitude has never happened before.

Even the Yom Kippur War was between uniformed national armed forces, not this sort of massacre and mass hostage taking.

 

[King Arts]

He takes fucking MacGregor seriously, vatnik lover seems appropriate, and I'm past the point of reasoning with him, instead of just mocking him, when he's this much of a Right Wing NPC who is proving horseshoe theory of politics right more every day.

That he insists on doing it in this thread, about this issue, and in this fashion at this time...I don't think he likes Hamas, but he really doesn't seem to care how many people they kill, so long as it's not on US soil. He doesn't even seem to care that US citizens are hostages, and wants to blame them for going to Israel when an attack of this type and magnitude has never happened before.

Even the Yom Kippur War was between uniformed national armed forces, not this sort of massacre and mass hostage taking.

Guess what Bacle you don’t decide who is a friend or enemy of America the people do. If we decide to be friendly to Palestine and hostile to Israel that is that and your bullshit becomes treason. I almost want the Palestinian lobby to win in the US to spite you. You try to drag us into your foreign wars and it ends up going against you.

 

[Bacle]

Guess what Bacle you don’t decide who is a friend or enemy of America the people do. If we decide to be friendly to Palestine and hostile to Israel that is that and your bullshit becomes treason. I almost want the Palestinian lobby to win in the US to spite you. You try to drag us into your foreign wars and it ends up going against you.

Glad you once again show you are more ok with Hamas and the death cult lobby tied to the lied of 'Palestine' taking power in the US than you are with me pointing out that MacGregor is a vatnik shill and Darth takes him seriously, and have such a hate boner for me that you want the jihadi lobby to win just so I can be charged with treason for supporting Israel.

Please, keep providing more examples of your antisemetic/anti-israel views and behavior out of spite for being dunked on so much.

 

[Bacle]

'Russia Will Pay a High Price for Killing Israelis' - Amir Weitmann

In an exclusive interview with Kyiv Post, Weitmann explains why Israel has not previously defended Ukraine and discusses what Russia's reckoning will look like.

www.kyivpost.com

Russia's support for Hamas is will never be forgotten by Israel, and they will pay for it.

 

[King Arts]

Glad you once again show you are more ok with Hamas and the death cult lobby tied to the lied of 'Palestine' taking power in the US than you are with me pointing out that MacGregor is a vatnik shill and Darth takes him seriously, and have such a hate boner for me that you want the jihadi lobby to win just so I can be charged with treason for supporting Israel.

Please, keep providing more examples of your antisemetic/anti-israel views and behavior out of spite for being dunked on so much.

I started this because you insulted Darth by calling him a vatnick when he is not just because you are a religious bigot against Christian’s.

And thinking you as being treasonous is not a far off stretch you literally want to manipulate the US political system for the benefit of a foreign state. If someone did that for China Russia or Iran many here would say it’s treason. But I guess if you decide to abandon America first for Israel it’s ok.

But please keep providing more evidence of your anti semetic/anti Arab beliefs.

 

[Bacle]

I started this because you insulted Darth by calling him a vatnick when he is not just because you are a religious bigot against Christian’s.

And thinking you as being treasonous is not a far off stretch you literally want to manipulate the US political system for the benefit of a foreign state. If someone did that for China Russia or Iran many here would say it’s treason. But I guess if you decide to abandon America first for Israel it’s ok.

But please keep providing more evidence of your anti semetic/anti Arab beliefs.

I have no problem with Semitic peoples; Hamas and it's death cult brethren are not an ethnicity or nation, they are Saudi/Yemenese/Jordanian/Egyptian nationals deported/pushed into the West Bank and Gaza as a catspaws against Israel.

If Egypt and Jordan could be convinced to take Gaza and the West Bank under administrative control, and it took in the long term, it would be a lot simpler.

But I understand why neither Egypt or Jordan want any more of the catspaws on their side of the border than there already are present.

I also understand that the US has far, far worse allies than Israel; like fucking Turkey and it's BS neo-Ottoman dreams.

And I called a vatnik a vatnik, because he keeps taking MacGregor seriously, and wants to cut aid and US ties to Israel as well it seems.

 

[Cherico]

I started this because you insulted Darth by calling him a vatnick when he is not just because you are a religious bigot against Christian’s.

And thinking you as being treasonous is not a far off stretch you literally want to manipulate the US political system for the benefit of a foreign state. If someone did that for China Russia or Iran many here would say it’s treason. But I guess if you decide to abandon America first for Israel it’s ok.

But please keep providing more evidence of your anti semetic/anti Arab beliefs.

Barcle probally should not have gone for the insult.

But isn't he a christian? I mean if he's a fellow jew nice to have another one on sight but I'm pretty sure he's christian of some stripe.

 

[Bacle]

Barcle probally should not have gone for the insult.

But isn't he a christian? I mean if he's a fellow jew nice to have another one on sight but I'm pretty sure he's christian of some stripe.

I'm at most a Deist, leaning towards the more nature worshipping bits of monotheism than any specific Judeo-Christian branch.

I believe in the divine but I don't think any group(s) have the whole of it represented.

As for the insult, the fact Darth has proved impervious to reason and purely out for contrarian takes feels insulting for those of us who spent so much time futilely trying to open his eyes.

Vatniks are a threat to Jews and Israel too, or have you not noticed how many ties Russia has developed with Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran, while trying to pretend to respect Israel's 'neutrality' in world affairs vis a vie Moscow's actions.

You not noticed the CCP hanggliders that Hamas used to hit that concert? Or the FPV hit's on the Merkava's that look straight out of Bakhmut? Or the Iron Domes sales to Taiwan?

The new axis of evil is built and in play, and Israel is just it's latest target, and the people who refuse to see that at this point, or want to believe the US can actually stick it's head in the sand despite evidence the rest of the world won't stop existing or mattering.

 

[Terthna]

Guess what Bacle you don’t decide who is a friend or enemy of America the people do. If we decide to be friendly to Palestine and hostile to Israel that is that and your bullshit becomes treason. I almost want the Palestinian lobby to win in the US to spite you. You try to drag us into your foreign wars and it ends up going against you.

To be fair, we're already involved because not only have Americans died, more are currently being held hostage by the Palestinians. However you want to try and frame that, a response of some sort is required; at bare minimum, we need to put troops on the ground to try and rescue those who are still alive. Not just because it's our duty to them; but also because if we don't, we will have announced to the world that America is weak and unwilling to defend either itself or its people, and then all of our lives will be in danger from our emboldened enemies.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Up until this month, Germany, France, Britain, etc, were all pro Palestine. Then their (specifically Germany's) citizen was attacked by Hamas, and Germany at least is acting like a normal country for once by going "WTF Gaza? F you!"

I am not prone to see them as pro-Palestine the entire countries, hell the average European voter is to my knowledge, unless is a far leftist (or leftist in general) , has enough worries paying the overtaxed system that he cannot even enjoy.

But the EU, the UN, and even the US gives a huge amount of aid to Israel. Something like $40B/25 years. This, as a % of Palestine's GDP, is well above what Israel gets. Without it, Palestine would be completely fucked. Israel, by contrast, would get along fine. It'd suck, but it'd do fine.

By Palestine you mean Gaza and West Bank mutually or just Gaza or just West Bank?

More, the international order that exists simply doesn't like land transfer wars. They've basically disappeared in comparison to the 1900s and previously. Traditionally, if Israel won a war, it would be fine shoving everyone out of Gaza. It's only the new international order that dislikes this. That was normal. Actually, likely nicer than normal, as it would only be a forced movement.

Note, I'm not saying the lack of land transfer wars is a bad thing. The elite actually have some good ideas every once in a while. But this harms Israel far more than it helps.

How so?

So all in all, Israel doesn't need the Elites to exist, and is probably hurt by the international order.

Israel has received actual concrete media, moral and equipment support from the governments of USA, Germany and others so it is very unlikely to seem what you claim it is doing. As I mentioned above, the governments of the EU and other entities is also trying to censor anything related to said conflict, just like they with COVID, with this last they favored pharmaceutical companies and now with the attempted censorships regarding Twitter and Rumble they seem to want to favor Israel. So of course to me it sounds the globalist elites favor Israel.

I disagree. The other way, yes. But ultimately, what happened in those genocides was specific: mass targeted murder of innocents. Israel at its worst is not looking to kill all or even many Gazans, only their army. At it's worst, they'd just move them somewhere else. In fact, we can see that the population of Gaza has doubled since 2000 or so, so it's clearly not a genocide.

This is much more similar to America's drone attacks, just all geographically concentrated: each is targeting a legit military target in a civilian place, so there will be civilian casualties. And Israel, through it's roofknocking bombs, warnings, etc, is far more humane that America was in Iraq & Afghanistan.

It is very difficult for me honestly to see as the way you see it. To paraphrase a comedian : Israel looks/pretends to bs like Superman but acts like Homelander. Though the same can be applied to Hamas to those who favored it.

So what I'd say here is that Israel is acting much more morally righteous than America did.

It's opponent (Hamas), is much worse than the Taliban, as Hamas is a full on death cult, whereas the Taliban was a lot of different things.

You haven't taken into account that the Taliban is not a uniform organization, not in a strict Western sense at least.

So we can conclude there's a bad guy in the war, and about as much of a good guy in a war that one could hope for.

Look, even if the elite favor Israel, that doesn't mean Israel is wrong. The elite should not serve as a south pointing moral compass, where everything they do is bad, just the same as one shouldn't simply adopt their views.

Pardon me @Abhorsen but the last three years and lots of other historical events of the past 20 years here in Europe do give me reason to do the exact opposite. Those who govern Europe and their puppeteers have given me plenty of reason to not trust them on anything they do at best. Short of actually and demonstrably saving humanity, if I could, I would throw gladly a wrench in their plans in anything they do or want to do or think to do. I have plenty of reasons think this way.

You are right that they US elites are pushing for Israel. But many are pushing against it. First, the Elites don't view themselves as a cohesive group. Take the uniparty of republicrats. No republicrat views themselves as a republicrat or a RINO or a DINO. They think the difference between a RINO and a DINO are incredibly real, and they hate the other side. This conflict is real, its ust that what they agree on sucks.

It is very difficult to me to believe this.

One thing they like? War. There's a variety of reasons, but they all like it. And Israel is just an excuse to them to engage in this favorite passtime. And some people are also just genuinely outraged by Hamas' actions. Remember, Elites don't view themselves as Elites, so they can be actually pissed about stuff.

I think that we can agree on.

So really, I'd be more concerned about America getting involved than Israel invading Gaza. I'm against the former, for the later. Not because I like war, but because it's necessary.

True.

He takes fucking MacGregor seriously, vatnik lover seems appropriate, and I'm past the point of reasoning with him, instead of just mocking him, when he's this much of a Right Wing NPC who is proving horseshoe theory of politics right more every day.

You don't reason at all compared to others.

That he insists on doing it in this thread, about this issue, and in this fashion at this time...I don't think he likes Hamas, but he really doesn't seem to care how many people they kill, so long as it's not on US soil.

And that's negative how exactly?

He doesn't even seem to care that US citizens are hostages, and wants to blame them for going to Israel when an attack of this type and magnitude has never happened before.

Anyone reasonable enough can understand that going into that area of the world is a huge risk. I took that risk when I visited and lived in Israel and Palestine SIX years ago. I knew perfectly well I was ripe for the taking even with 1,83 meters of muscle and not dressing like a tourist

Even the Yom Kippur War was between uniformed national armed forces, not this sort of massacre and mass hostage taking.

You guys forget, finding a way to blame the West/US allies for anything bad that happens, finding ways to cast doubt on any alliance the US is part of, and finding ways to ignore what the enemies of the west do in a desire to 'whatabout' everything is all DarthOne does anymore.

The enemies of the West have clearly shown to be the ones who rules it through the puppets we call "governments". Casting doubt on actually dubious alliances is perfectly fine, especially when said ally said just a few years it could do anything on its own & wants to send their enemies to us on the first days of the Hamas of the incursion.

He's a vatnik loving contrarian Right-Wing NPC who cares more about 'opposing the current thing' than anything else.

You meanwhile do the exact thing, yours is just "Support the current thing" as long is "our allies/guys do it" without questioning, just like an actual vatnik would do and as long they (your "allies") tell you they are "doing the right thing" or as along it aligns with you views. You are just like those on the Sufficient Velocity forum, just the other side of the coin.

 

[Marduk]

Guess what Bacle you don’t decide who is a friend or enemy of America the people do. If we decide to be friendly to Palestine and hostile to Israel that is that and your bullshit becomes treason. I almost want the Palestinian lobby to win in the US to spite you. You try to drag us into your foreign wars and it ends up going against you.

1. You're not "the people", you're as much "the people" as anyone else is. If anything, going by what i know of your views, they are shared by an extremely small fringe of US population (or any other western country).
2. Yes, you could. But that would put you on the same podium of idiocy as "queers for Palestine", maybe a step lower than them, but still. Sometimes just because you like a faction, will not make that faction like you, just make you look completely delusional, which they will willingly exploit... but still not like you. So, have fun, say even dumber things to spite people who think isolationism is dumb and don't want to join you in its childish logic, that will sure convince people it's a great idea.
3. It is a basic role of the state to consider involvement in foreign wars on the basis of own interests and foreign relations. Isolationism is a leftist delusion sold by leftist ideologues to useful idiots in countries they don't like. I want all the countries i don't like to become strictly isolationist yesterday, it is a great ideology... to wish upon your enemies.

EU U-turns after halting Palestinian funding following Hamas attack

Splits within the Commission and among member states on plan to halt aid to the Palestinian Authority.

www.politico.eu

European Union reverses earlier announcement that it was suspending development aid to Palestinians

The European Union has reversed an earlier announcement that it was “immediately” suspending aid for Palestinian authorities and instead said it would urgently review such assistance in the wake of the attacks on Israel by Hamas.

apnews.com

Will our EU based contrarians at least please take their update and start supporting Israel now that EU establishment is failing to do so?

I am not prone to see them as pro-Palestine the entire countries, hell the average European voter is to my knowledge, unless is a far leftist (or leftist in general) , has enough worries paying the overtaxed system that he cannot even enjoy.

You forget that Europe has a whole lot of leftists.

EuroTrack: Israel’s favourability falls following Gaza strikes | YouGov

YouGov Eurotrack data shows that Israel’s favourability across Europe has suffered significantly

yougov.co.uk

 

[DarthOne]

If it was a place like Iran, you might have a point; but this was Israel, and it wasn't Israelis that killed/kidnapped them. It was invading Palestinian terrorists that attacked without warning. Brushing what happened off as "they were asking for trouble simply by being there" is just blaming the victims here.

Considering they were right next to the damn border, that’s not exactly the same thing. Never mind that the Middle East is rife with terrorist groups in general.

Look, I’m not saying they deserved what happened to them. But pointing out that going to the Middle East in general isn’t healthy is not ‘victim blaming’.

Also, ‘victim blaming’? Are we leftists now with no concept of personal responsibility?

 

[DarthOne]

You guys forget, finding a way to blame the West/US allies for anything bad that happens, finding ways to cast doubt on any alliance the US is part of, and finding ways to ignore what the enemies of the west do in a desire to 'whatabout' everything is all DarthOne does anymore.

He's a vatnik loving contrarian Right-Wing NPC who cares more about 'opposing the current thing' than anything else.

Careful there, you almost hurt my feelings.

 

[Zachowon]

Considering they were right next to the damn border, that’s not exactly the same thing. Never mind that the Middle East is rife with terrorist groups in general.

Look, I’m not saying they deserved what happened to them. But pointing out that going to the Middle East in general isn’t healthy is not ‘victim blaming’.

Also, ‘victim blaming’? Are we leftists now with no concept of personal responsibility?

There is a diffremce between victim blaming and personal responsibility.
One is knowing that you put yourself somewhere that would lead to stupid things.
The other one is when you are blamed for nothing in your control except a small fraction of the events.

Israel is, or was considered a safe place to visit. The US government didn't even have any travel warning ir anything there because of how good and low hostility it had been.

It would be like traveling to NYC on 9/11 to see the big city, only to die during the collapse because you happen to be there at the wrong time

 

[DarthOne]

There is a diffremce between victim blaming and personal responsibility.
One is knowing that you put yourself somewhere that would lead to stupid things.
The other one is when you are blamed for nothing in your control except a small fraction of the events.

Israel is, or was considered a safe place to visit. The US government didn't even have any travel warning ir anything there because of how good and low hostility it had been.

It would be like traveling to NYC on 9/11 to see the big city, only to die during the collapse because you happen to be there at the wrong time

The Middle East hasn’t been ‘safe’ for over a decade if you’re American/western and non-Muslim.

 

[LordsFire]

Guess what Bacle you don’t decide who is a friend or enemy of America the people do. If we decide to be friendly to Palestine and hostile to Israel that is that and your bullshit becomes treason. I almost want the Palestinian lobby to win in the US to spite you. You try to drag us into your foreign wars and it ends up going against you.

Well, it's nice of you to take the mask off.

To try to crack through the fantasies you surround yourself with:

Hamas hates all non-Muslims. They are enemies of the USA, Europe, and every part of the world that does not want to submit to forced conversion or the sword.

If Israel disappeared tomorrow, they'd just move on to their next target. Given they hate a lot of muslims too, might be some of them.

 

[Abhorsen]

By Palestine you mean Gaza and West Bank mutually or just Gaza or just West Bank?

I mean both combined. Their gdp/year is about 10B. About 15% is just foreign aid money. Israel has a gdp/year of >550B, and gets slightly under $4B a year. That's less than 1%.

How so?

When it won the six day war or any of the intifada wars, if it weren't for the international order, it could have just kicked everyone out of gaza and become completely safe.

Israel has received actual concrete media, moral and equipment support from the governments of USA, Germany and others so it is very unlikely to seem what you claim it is doing. As I mentioned above, the governments of the EU and other entities is also trying to censor anything related to said conflict, just like they with COVID, with this last they favored pharmaceutical companies and now with the attempted censorships regarding Twitter and Rumble they seem to want to favor Israel. So of course to me it sounds the globalist elites favor Israel.

They are now. But all in all, with both money and pressure, they favor Palestine. The entire college system trains kids to hate Israel. The BBC refused to call Hamas terrorists for weeks. And I could go on.

It is very difficult for me honestly to see as the way you see it. To paraphrase a comedian : Israel looks/pretends to bs like Superman but acts like Homelander. Though the same can be applied to Hamas to those who favored it.

See, the issue with that analogy is that even if you buy that Israel is a bad actor, Hamas is a million times worse. No matter what, when you compare the two, Israel comes out on top: they don't go out of their way to murder kids (they go out of their way to not murder kids, in fact), they don't rape, etc. If Israel had the morals of Hamas, they would have just glassed Gaza city and been done with it a long time ago. They don't. Israel clearly has restraint. And it's this restraint that is the reason Israel is the relatively good guy here. Had it not been for that restraint, then they'd be equally bad, and I wouldn't care.

You haven't taken into account that the Taliban is not a uniform organization, not in a strict Western sense at least.

That's what I meant by saying "A lot of different things".

Pardon me @Abhorsen but the last three years and lots of other historical events of the past 20 years here in Europe do give me reason to do the exact opposite. Those who govern Europe and their puppeteers have given me plenty of reason to not trust them on anything they do at best. Short of actually and demonstrably saving humanity, if I could, I would throw gladly a wrench in their plans in anything they do or want to do or think to do. I have plenty of reasons think this way.

Oh, you should definitely not trust them. Never do that. But you don't need to trust them to come to this conclusion. The elite weren't wrong to oppose Hitler then the USSR, for example. But you could independently verify that they were correct. The same goes for Israel. Don't trust the elite groups. Look for yourself, and you'll find yourself siding with Israel here.

The issue with using them as a south pointing compass is that's falling into a discrediting strategy they use. Elites don't always choose the worst option, and there's a reason for that: because a lot of people reflexively pick the opposite of what they do, and then the Elites can point to that specifically to discredit them.

It is very difficult to me to believe this.

You've got to remember that the elites are only human. To them, their biggest competition to their livelyhood is an election. The way they get power is by grouping up against the other team. The Uniparty exists. The way it works, is that you have two competing groups with some shared desires (war, the security state, etc). The only thing that gets pushed forward in general is what they both believe in, which sucks for everyone.

 

[DarthOne]

Well, it's nice of you to take the mask off.

To try to crack through the fantasies you surround yourself with:

Hamas hates all non-Muslims. They are enemies of the USA, Europe, and every part of the world that does not want to submit to forced conversion or the sword.

If Israel disappeared tomorrow, they'd just move on to their next target. Given they hate a lot of muslims too, might be some of them.

And then we'd take care of them.

Preferably by turning their cities and territory into a parking lot via bombing before one of our soldiers sets so much of a boot on the ground.

 

[LordsFire]

And then we'd take care of them.

Preferably by turning their cities and territory into a parking lot via bombing before one of our soldiers sets so much of a boot on the ground.

So why not save the intermediary steps, and pay a fraction of the cost for someone else to deal with them first?