Halo Infinite

Draco

Adida
Yes and no. While I don't want Halo to turn into Star Wars, if a franchise doesn't advance in terms of narrative and what the people in it can and cannot do, it runs the high risk of becoming stagnant. Look at Star Wars and Disney Wars and see how both had an overabundance of Dark Siders and super-weapons of the week (which quickly became old) because the writers stuck with the formula of the Original Trilogy.
The key to my statement was "start with," as in the UNSC would begin by compartmentalizing the design that was already successful even further (see how the Spartan Laser was something that started as a vehicle based weapon for the Sparrowhawk in canon that was later miniaturized for troop use). So you could have something like a DMR or sniper rifle weapon that had a short charge time to fire a finer beam more suited to infantry specific combat than anti-vehicle, or perhaps a laser turret of some kind. Basically you would want to show a progression of UNSC development of energy weapons in a natural manner, and the best way to do that is to show things derived from what we already know, and then from there introduce more novel weapons as the games continued.

On this I disagree. I think that the flood should have been left a mystery and should not come back. We've already beaten the Flood in four, now five games (Halo 1-3 and Halo Wars 1-2). Frankly I'm sick of them by this point and I hate how OP they've become now that we know so much about them. And the stuff with the precursors, ancient Humans and the Forerunners is all just meh at best for me. As for the Logic plague, it just feels like we're going from 'space zombies' to the 'evil robots' trope. In short, trading one tired plot for another.
I never said the Flood shouldn't have been left a mystery, I myself find the ideas of a lot of the stuff in the Forerunner saga to be lackluster/too direct in their explanation of what occurred (especially ancient Humanity, I don't know what Greg Bear was thinking doing that plotline). But saying we've beaten the Flood in five games as a reason they shouldn't reappear when you'd also have these hypothetical future games where you'd fight some variation of the Covenant again anyway makes the sentiment ring somewhat hollow.

While Halo 5's plot certainly came off as "evil robots," that doesn't necessarily mean that the logic plague would come off as that on its own. Mendicant Bias, for example, was infected by the logic plague, but that story didn't seem like it was written as a evil robot story (at least not in the Halo 3 terminals). Rather it enhanced the threat of the Flood because it was able to turn someone to its side without physically infecting them via biomass. That would enhance the threat it poses, which to some extent was done with the introduction of the Gravemind in Halo 2; no longer was it a faceless mob of John Carpenter monsters, but an intelligent force that could properly plan its goals to devour everything.

Ultimately something like the logic plague makes the Flood threat more multifaceted, enhancing the depth of the fear that was already present with such a malicious and clever force. It is not restricted to one vector of attack, it is something deeper that can corrupt a polity or species in many ways, making it even harder to stop.

Plus, putting my personal feelings aside, dropping the Flood helps keep that feeling of 'no more (ancient) big bad evil to fight' and 'the giants have left the playground, but they left their guns behind' that I'd be aiming for.
While a fair point, the various Flood containment facilities on the other Halo rings are something that will need to be dealt with eventually. They're not going to go away on their own.
PS:Well, the idea I'm going for is that there's really only so many big awesome forerunner artifacts to find and we've sort of discovered/ blow up most of them by this point.
That's a fairly difficult concept to realize when the Forerunners had already been established as a galaxy spanning empire, and a single Keyship (which wasn't even a Forerunner warship) could tank Super MAC rounds like they were spitballs. They'd have had hundreds of research stations and military bases across space in order to properly police and observe the different species during their reign. Any one such base would be a monumental discovery that would cause a massive power shift for whoever controlled it. It doesn't have to be a Halo for it to be a big awesome artifact.
 

Dovahkiin

Well-known member
For anyone unaware, they’re finally showing off the gameplay tomorrow. And have already revealed the box art.

Reze3foLZuQ5e8DrBPA6aW-1200-80.jpg


  • A Wasp, from Halo 5 multiplayer, in the background
  • What is probably a grappling hook on Chief’s arm.
  • A Brute (named Hyperius according to a... concerning toy advertisement), probably some lieutenant of Atriox and the voice we heard in the Banished teaser, reflected in Chief’s visor.
  • What some are speculating to be an infamous location from the Forerunner Saga, in that tower on the right.
  • What might be an Easter Island-esque statue of a Human head, in a tiny corner on the left.
 
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Draco

Adida
For anyone unaware, they’re finally showing off the gameplay tomorrow. And have already revealed the box art.

Reze3foLZuQ5e8DrBPA6aW-1200-80.jpg


  • A Wasp, from Halo 5 multiplayer, in the background
  • What is probably a grappling hook on Chief’s arm.
  • A Brute (named Hyperius according to a... concerning toy advertisement), probably some lieutenant of Atriox and the voice we heard in the Banished teaser, reflected in Chief’s visor.
  • What some are speculating to be an infamous location from the Forerunner Saga, in that tower on the right.
  • What might be an Easter Island-esque statue of a Human head, in a tiny corner on the left.
I remain cautiously curious until I see the gameplay. Armor looks better in the darker green, though.
 

DarthOne

☦️
For anyone unaware, they’re finally showing off the gameplay tomorrow. And have already revealed the box art.

Reze3foLZuQ5e8DrBPA6aW-1200-80.jpg


  • A Wasp, from Halo 5 multiplayer, in the background
  • What is probably a grappling hook on Chief’s arm.
  • A Brute (named Hyperius according to a... concerning toy advertisement), probably some lieutenant of Atriox and the voice we heard in the Banished teaser, reflected in Chief’s visor.
  • What some are speculating to be an infamous location from the Forerunner Saga, in that tower on the right.
  • What might be an Easter Island-esque statue of a Human head, in a tiny corner on the left.
How is this toy advertisement concerning?

EDIT:
OH.

Merch-MEGA-Hyperius_cropped.png
 
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Dovahkiin

Well-known member
Well... that was something. Copying my thoughts from SB...
Well, gotta say that was... eh? Especially for a reveal on something they've been keeping a secret for so long?

New art style is nice (told y'all that 'not grey and red' =/= 'not Banished'), but the graphics looked a bit more cartoony than I'd prefer.

Escharum didn't particularly impress as a villain, but he's probably a warmup to Atriox in the long run, so alright. The still unnamed Pilot came across as slightly annoying too. Please don't have him be the next Palmer, 343i.

Nostalgia-pandering and ignoring of Halo 5 was expected, but I still can't help but worry about the complete absence of references to the Created. Although I am wondering what these 'Harbingers' are.

Gameplay looks solid, no strong feelings on the new abilities. Although I will, of course, derive no shortage of pleasure from the brainlet swarms already bitching about how the game is ruined purely because of Sprint being in.

Very pleased to see confirmation of open world and a database.
An article overviewing the new reveals.

And another trailer.

 

Draco

Adida
Well, gotta say that was... eh? Especially for a reveal on something they've been keeping a secret for so long?

New art style is nice (told y'all that 'not grey and red' =/= 'not Banished'), but the graphics looked a bit more cartoony than I'd prefer.

Escharum didn't particularly impress as a villain, but he's probably a warmup to Atriox in the long run, so alright. The still unnamed Pilot came across as slightly annoying too. Please don't have him be the next Palmer, 343i.

Nostalgia-pandering and ignoring of Halo 5 was expected, but I still can't help but worry about the complete absence of references to the Created. Although I am wondering what these 'Harbingers' are.

Gameplay looks solid, no strong feelings on the new abilities. Although I will, of course, derive no shortage of pleasure from the brainlet swarms already bitching about how the game is ruined purely because of Sprint being in.

Very pleased to see confirmation of open world and a database.
The art style at a general glance seems passable/okay, but nothing about it so far stands out as being anything iconic like in the older games. Meanwhile, the weird hexagonal poking bits in the environment aren't doing it for me, and all of the weapon designs have been mediocre to crap.

Not sure what you mean about Escharum, he's pretty much exactly the same as Atriox. No real presence, mostly hot air, the only downgrade is that he looks like any old Orc while Atriox looks like monkee. I would take Halo 3 Truth over either of them, which says a lot.

Brohammer is also proving not to be much of a bro, and I frankly have no interest in having the story focus on him as the emotional center, as they have said it will. Chief can carry it on his own, if they cared to put in the time to write him.

On the topic of the two characters taking up the whole screen, let's talk about how they literally take up the whole screen. By all accounts, the rumor that the game is going to be a one shot affair like the new God of War appears to be true. And from what I've seen, that's only going to be to the game's detriment. It was neat for the E3 trailer, but as of this reveal all this particular cinematography decision has done is make everything way too up close and claustrophobic, and will severely hamper any director's ability to convey scale via establishing shots, cuts, etc.

"It will definitely continue the story of the last game, guys," 343 said, as Chief played a background role in a story very much not about him after Halo 4. Looking like we're gonna be two for two on that trend.

None of the new gameplay features they showed looked like anything more than more gimmicks strapped onto the Halo formula they still haven't managed to get right on its own merits. And keeping sprint, clamber and sliding from 5 certainly isn't helping the game stand out, especially with the new gun designs and the grappling hook making this feel even more like a Titanfall rip-off with a Halo skin.

They needed to prove they could make a regular Halo campaign first before trying any open world campaign design. I have zero confidence they'll be able to deliver engaging encounters in a larger space when they could barely manage it in smaller structured ones.
 

Dovahkiin

Well-known member
Apparently this will also be the last mainline Halo game to be released in the foreseeable future, with Infinite basically being a platform they'll add new story and technical installments to over time.

On one hand, that means the initial release being somewhat myopically focused is less of a problem. On the other... they really better get the core gameplay experience down with this one.
The art style at a general glance seems passable/okay, but nothing about it so far stands out as being anything iconic like in the older games. Meanwhile, the weird hexagonal poking bits in the environment aren't doing it for me, and all of the weapon designs have been mediocre to crap.
Aside from the Banished-specific twists on some things, I don't think the art style itself seems radically different from anything in the Bungie games, and at least improves on most of 343i's previous efforts. What I'm less enthused about is this weird, glossy graphic system it's filtered through. Hopefully that was just the demo being unpolished, because it made everything look like plastic. That, and the Brutes looked a bit too Human for my liking.

And agreed on the environment looking strange, but I actually liked the weapons designs.
Not sure what you mean about Escharum, he's pretty much exactly the same as Atriox. No real presence, mostly hot air, the only downgrade is that he looks like any old Orc while Atriox looks like monkee. I would take Halo 3 Truth over either of them, which says a lot.
I definitely wouldn't say Atriox lacked presence in his introduction scene, Awakening the Nightmare, or either of the comics that have focused on him, even if he was conveniently sectioned off from the meat of Halo Wars 2. And his character, conceptually, certainly has potential I'd love to see explored.
Brohammer is also proving not to be much of a bro, and I frankly have no interest in having the story focus on him as the emotional center, as they have said it will. Chief can carry it on his own, if they cared to put in the time to write him.
On the topic of the two characters taking up the whole screen, let's talk about how they literally take up the whole screen. By all accounts, the rumor that the game is going to be a one shot affair like the new God of War appears to be true. And from what I've seen, that's only going to be to the game's detriment. It was neat for the E3 trailer, but as of this reveal all this particular cinematography decision has done is make everything way too up close and claustrophobic, and will severely hamper any director's ability to convey scale via establishing shots, cuts, etc.
Agreed on both counts.
They needed to prove they could make a regular Halo campaign first before trying any open world campaign design. I have zero confidence they'll be able to deliver engaging encounters in a larger space when they could barely manage it in smaller structured ones.
Well, even if the encounter design is no better itself, I do think that level of design + open world will still be more fun than that level of design + closed world.
 

Draco

Adida
Apparently this will also be the last mainline Halo game to be released in the foreseeable future, with Infinite basically being a platform they'll add new story and technical installments to over time.

On one hand, that means the initial release being somewhat myopically focused is less of a problem. On the other... they really better get the core gameplay experience down with this one.
Every day 343 reveals itself to really be Bungie in a different skin. Who else is ready for Destiny 3?
Aside from the Banished-specific twists on some things, I don't think the art style itself seems radically different from anything in the Bungie games, and at least improves on most of 343i's previous efforts. What I'm less enthused about is this weird, glossy graphic system it's filtered through. Hopefully that was just the demo being unpolished, because it made everything look like plastic. That, and the Brutes looked a bit too Human for my liking.
It is an improvement, but most of that improvement comes from the fact that they are, for lack of a better term, tracing over Bungie era designs because what they made on their own wasn't good or distinctive. So the point I suppose I should have made is that nothing in this game that is clearly a 343 original appears to be something that will stand the test of time like the OG Elites, Grunts, etc. do.

I concur on the graphics in general appearing unfinished. That could still change, but I find myself doubting that the mixture of style, lighting and environment design is going to resonate with me the way Halo 3 still does to this day.
And agreed on the environment looking strange, but I actually liked the weapons designs.
The new human weapons look like they were ripped straight from CS:GO and Infinite Warfare, while the Banished weapons look like the Cabal knockoffs they're slowly morphing into before our very eyes. The best of them in the gameplay reveal was the default AR, a remodel of the Reach design which I always thought was the weakest AR design in the series.
I definitely wouldn't say Atriox lacked presence in his introduction scene, Awakening the Nightmare, or either of the comics that have focused on him, even if he was conveniently sectioned off from the meat of Halo Wars 2. And his character, conceptually, certainly has potential I'd love to see explored.
Atriox's intro scene was the exact same scenario as the Locke vs Jul scene that was universally reviled: new character beats up established characters with little or no to-do to make them seem scary or cool. One of the easiest and most common tricks that bad writers fall back on when they don't actually know how to write an introduction. The only thing that makes Atriox's intro better than Locke vs Jul was the direction and cutscene fidelity, but the actual meat of it was still lacking.

Awakening the Nightmare did little to make me think Atriox was something to fear when the entire campaign of Halo Wars 2 showed him to be a complete incompetent who couldn't hold the Ark with four months of preparation and the second strongest capital ship design the Covenant ever fielded against an 80 year old school bus with a gun strapped to it running on a literal skeleton crew. The comic that focused on his past had him luck into Brutes following him after his rebellion, because we never see him garnering sympathy for his dissatisfaction with the Covenant, we just see him be big and sad until an Elite tries to stab him and then guys just...follow him after he does that for some reason. And the comic about those guys trying to assassinate him didn't hit home either, because apparently despite those coming to kill him of their own reasoning, him basically saying "I'll pay you not to" somehow worked.

His character concept has potential, but far be it from me to expect any Halo writing to be able to effectively act on that at this point in the series life.
Well, even if the encounter design is no better itself, I do think that level of design + open world will still be more fun than that level of design + closed world.
Perhaps, but that doesn't change the fact that enemy encounters are part of the core of Halo's gameplay, so that should be the thing they tighten up first before trying to reach beyond their grasp.
 

Dovahkiin

Well-known member
It is an improvement, but most of that improvement comes from the fact that they are, for lack of a better term, tracing over Bungie era designs because what they made on their own wasn't good or distinctive.
Sure. And that's completely fine by me. The complete lack of need for 343i to have tried "leaving their mark" (one of their artist's words) on Halo in the first place aside, I'll take 'derivative and decent' over 'original and butt-ugly' any day.
The new human weapons look like they were ripped straight from CS:GO and Infinite Warfare, while the Banished weapons look like the Cabal knockoffs they're slowly morphing into before our very eyes. The best of them in the gameplay reveal was the default AR, a remodel of the Reach design which I always thought was the weakest AR design in the series.
My response here is basically the same as above. I'm not really bothered by the weapons being reminiscent of other series, I just want them A) vaguely thematic for their respective factions, and B) not hideous in themselves. The new weapons we saw fit both bills for me.
Atriox's intro scene was the exact same scenario as the Locke vs Jul scene that was universally reviled: new character beats up established characters with little or no to-do to make them seem scary or cool. One of the easiest and most common tricks that bad writers fall back on when they don't actually know how to write an introduction. The only thing that makes Atriox's intro better than Locke vs Jul was the direction and cutscene fidelity, but the actual meat of it was still lacking.
I mean, aside from the fight having the same shitty choreography that Halo is apparently fated to always have in its cutscenes (albeit not as bad as it can be for the series), both the essence of Atriox beating up three Spartans at once and the general vibes of his presentation checked off "scary or cool" for me pretty solidly, and most other fans I've seen.
Awakening the Nightmare did little to make me think Atriox was something to fear when the entire campaign of Halo Wars 2 showed him to be a complete incompetent who couldn't hold the Ark with four months of preparation and the second strongest capital ship design the Covenant ever fielded against an 80 year old school bus with a gun strapped to it running on a literal skeleton crew. The comic that focused on his past had him luck into Brutes following him after his rebellion, because we never see him garnering sympathy for his dissatisfaction with the Covenant, we just see him be big and sad until an Elite tries to stab him and then guys just...follow him after he does that for some reason. And the comic about those guys trying to assassinate him didn't hit home either, because apparently despite those coming to kill him of their own reasoning, him basically saying "I'll pay you not to" somehow worked.
Most of Halo Wars 2 can't be laid directly at his feet though. Aside from the Red Team confrontation and maybe the very last mission of the campaign (it's not entirely clear), literally every Banished operation the Spirit of Fire directly confronts in HW2 is overseen by some subordinate of his, namely Decimus, Let 'Volir, or some random Warlord. Probably because as a faction leader, he has more important things to do than micromanage tactical planning against a force he reasonably assumed his lieutenants could handle themselves (a mistake Thel is equally guilty of in Halo: CE). After paying the price for underestimating Cutter/Red Team, he seems to personally assume control of their efforts against the SoF, which is followed by an ongoing (as of our last look) stalemate against the UNSC. Despite Cutter being the one with orbital superiority and a trio of Spartan-IIs at that point.

Lazy writing that's the result of writers trying to have their cake and eat it too with him? Yes. Atriox being particularly incompetent, in context? Not really, more so just a single mistake spiraling out of control in a big way, and not one too dissimilar from Thel's handling of Installation 04.

As for the comics, for the small glimpses that they were, I thought both did decent jobs showing his personality and motives off.
 

Draco

Adida
Sure. And that's completely fine by me. The complete lack of need for 343i to have tried "leaving their mark" (one of their artist's words) on Halo in the first place aside, I'll take 'derivative and decent' over 'original and butt-ugly' any day.
True, but that is no way for the style of the series to develop. It needs new things that are good too in order to continue. 343 needs to learn why the old things were good and make new things following those rules. They can't remodel the Mark VI forever.
My response here is basically the same as above. I'm not really bothered by the weapons being reminiscent of other series, I just want them A) vaguely thematic for their respective factions, and B) not hideous in themselves. The new weapons we saw fit both bills for me.
"Vague" thematics is how design language for a faction gets confused and muddied. The draw of Halo's weapon designs were that they were unique, you weren't going to find anything quite like the AR or the magnum in another series, or in reality. I have no interest in a Halo that has almost exact replicas of the TAR-21 and the Sig P250 as part of the weapon sandbox, it screams of a lack of originality. Not to mention how uncomfortable that drum magazine pump action shotgun would be to operate.

As for the other weapons, I'm already having a hard time remembering what the pulse carbine looked like, and the Banished weapons have nothing of the Brute design language in them. One is a big brick with lights on it, the other is a big cylinder. Extremely uninspired.
I mean, aside from the fight having the same shitty choreography that Halo is apparently fated to always have in its cutscenes (albeit not as bad as it can be for the series), both the essence of Atriox beating up three Spartans at once and the general vibes of his presentation checked off "scary or cool" for me pretty solidly, and most other fans I've seen.
Having three Spartans get laughed off by a brick wall with a monkey face isn't scary, it's lazy. It tells me nothing about Atriox other than that he is inexplicably more physically dominant than every other Brute in the series thus far. I could have replaced him with Decimus, or a regular Hunter, or a Grunt in a big suit of powered armor and achieved the same result.

A character's introduction needs to tell you something about the person. And, frankly, this introduction sends the wrong message about who this guy is supposed to be. He's the leader with a cult of personality, the pirate who avoided the Covenant for two decades. His introduction should have been centered around his abilities as a leader and tactician, not how hard he can punch or get punched without falling over. More Prophet of Truth, less Tartarus.
Most of Halo Wars 2 can't be laid directly at his feet though. Aside from the Red Team confrontation and maybe the very last mission of the campaign (it's not entirely clear), literally every Banished operation the Spirit of Fire directly confronts in HW2 is overseen by some subordinate of his, namely Decimus, Let 'Volir, or some random Warlord. Probably because as a faction leader, he has more important things to do than micromanage tactical planning against a force he reasonably assumed his lieutenants could handle themselves (a mistake Thel is equally guilty of in Halo: CE).
How come Atriox didn't shoot down Spirit of Fire as soon as it entered the Ark's airspace? The CAS assault carrier he had could have literally driven through it and it would have crumpled like paper, with no damage to his ship or its crew. And having the Spirit in the sky only served to bolster his enemies. As you'll recall, Thel did not make that same mistake at 04, and in fact not only managed to down the Autumn, but also kill or capture her entire bridge crew. Atriox could have done the same easily, but did not.

So, why is that?
After paying the price for underestimating Cutter/Red Team, he seems to personally assume control of their efforts against the SoF, which is followed by an ongoing (as of our last look) stalemate against the UNSC. Despite Cutter being the one with orbital superiority and a trio of Spartan-IIs at that point.
That there even is a stalemate in the first place is a colossal failure. Nay, heresy.
Lazy writing that's the result of writers trying to have their cake and eat it too with him? Yes. Atriox being particularly incompetent, in context? Not really, more so just a single mistake spiraling out of control in a big way, and not one too dissimilar from Thel's handling of Installation 04.
Do note that you're trying to compare Atriox bungling a full scale military campaign against an inferior force that he could have easily swatted aside if he had actually pressed his numerous advantages in any way to Thel commanding a force trying to contain guerilla soldiers and special operatives hiding in the shadows. History has shown that it is nigh impossible, even with massive numerical and technological advantages, to effectively weed out resistance fighters that have a decentralized logisitical structure.

Had Atriox blasted the Spirit at the start of the game and was then met with targeted losses that he could not have prepared for due to shadow operatives and human ingenuity with Forerunner tech, he would have been a good tactician that simply wasn't provided the information he needed to know to effectively protect his assets, fighting an enemy he could not fully weed out and kill. Instead he is a fool who let his followers bleed advantages until he was somehow fighting on even terms with a force less than half the size of his in open warfare.
As for the comics, for the small glimpses that they were, I thought both did decent jobs showing his personality and motives off.
Personality and motives are the easy part, the harder and equally necessary part was showing how he actually garnered sympathy for his cause. A bunch of Brutes who, as far as the text had shown, were still loyal to the Covenant's doctrine suddenly revolting when a big tough guy murdered his executioner after killing another loyalist does not exactly a compelling faction make.
 

Laskar

Would you kindly?
Founder
"I wish that 343i would go back to the old artstyle. They don't have to slavishly copy everything, I just want to see the old stuff return."
"It's not enough for the old stuff to return, the art direction has to shift so that everything is less busy, more visually distinct."
"Hey, while we're at it, can we get more open-objective levels like Silent Cartographer or Halo? Those were fun!"
"Yeah, and can we ignore the Created? Let's fight a more interesting enemy."

*All but one of the fingers on the Monkey's Paw curl violently inward, leaving only the middle finger defiantly extended.*

And... that's all my thoughts for tonight. Sorry, I just crawled back into town, and I'm exhausted.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Unpopular opinion, I loved it and I am Hype as fuck.

I am in the boa that the graphic quality we saw in that demo is not final, as it seems to...cartoonish and plastic. Unlike how realistic even Halo 2 A looks like.

Honestly as long as Thel is alive somewhere in this I will be happy.

I am thinking we are going to start before they lose, and perhaps the scene where he is saved is later on in the game, probably act 2, and we go from there.

Grabble hook I actually like.
 

Sir 1000

Shitlord
The trailer seemed interesting though how much open world is there really? From the glance at the map it looked very sectioned off and tiny. The hipster guy didn't bother me much but i expected something suitably bad ass from 117 when the brute guy was talking shit. I hope 343 gets its marketing act together as everything i have seen so far has been pathetic compared to the last games marketing. Not so much as a single moment of gravitas or emotion to be found.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
The trailer seemed interesting though how much open world is there really? From the glance at the map it looked very sectioned off and tiny. The hipster guy didn't bother me much but i expected something suitably bad ass from 117 when the brute guy was talking shit. I hope 343 gets its marketing act together as everything i have seen so far has been pathetic compared to the last games marketing. Not so much as a single moment of gravitas or emotion to be found.
It is prorba;y a starting area that will lead to further expansion
 

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