Halo Infinite

[DarthOne]

 

[Doomsought]

Wait, they are still making Halo games?

 

[DarthOne]

Wait, they are still making Halo games?

Yes? There’s been Halo 4 and 5 as well.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

I cant actually imagine a universe in which this game is good, or even not terrible. My god, we've really come a long way, haven't we.

 

[Draco]

Can't wait to see how they bungle introducing these guys to people who haven't played Wars 2. Just like Fireteam Osiris and Blue Team in 5.

 

[DarthOne]

Can't wait to see how they bungle introducing these guys to people who haven't played Wars 2. Just like Fireteam Osiris and Blue Team in 5.

I'm just hoping that they don't do to Atroix what they did to poor...

I actually had to stop and look up his name. Jul 'Mdama. Which just goes to show how ultimately irrelevant he and his Covenant Splinter Remnant were to the story.

I don't know if I've shared this before on this website, but to be honest, I would have much preferred that they saved the Didact for later on and given him a heck of a lot more set up to help make the parallels between him and Chief much clearer.

Alternatively, and more likely, I would have done the post- Covenant era very differently from what we got. Instead of humanity bouncing back with (apparent ease) and having mega-ships like the Infinity, the galaxy is much more like Europe after the World War 2. The Human Covenant War has devastated massive portions of space; humanity and the Covenant have gotten the shit kicked out of them by both the war and, in the Covenant's case, their Civil War. So also sort of a post- fall of the Soviet Union feel. There's no longer one great Enemy who is unambiguously evil, merely a load of lesser evils in a galaxy that is increasingly spinning off its axis into unknown territory.

• I might have a new alien race or two pop up, but they're more off to the side doing their own thing. Mostly to keep the games from feeling like 'more aliens like the Covenant, but different that you have to fight!'

So there's much more of a focus on Covenant Remnant groups and, to some degree, human ones. Both those who have their issues with an alliance with the Sangheili/Elites (ranging from those who want no alliance at all to those who want a more distant alliance) and those who are using the chaos of the post-war period to make a bid for freedom and set up their own factions. Which isn't to mention how all the former-Covenant races view humanity.

Another possibility is that ONI, who come out of the war just as battered as everyone else, get some of their dirty laundry aired. Chaos ensues.

Likewise, there's a lot of focus on scavenging Covenant technologies leftover from the war. Not to mention Forerunner technology. And OH BOY do I have a thing for two to say about the Forerunners and the Flood, but more on that later. Something I'd also like to play with deconstructing is the whole 'humans are special' angle set up in the old Halo EU and the games. Namely, how humans just seem to be much better interacting with and adapting Forerunner technology. This comes back to bite humanity in two major ways.

1. the various factions are very wary of the UNSC and, even some of the good guys, are reluctant to let them get their hands on more Forerunner/ Covenant-derived Forerunner technologies. While the bad guys are doing everything they can to keep said technologies from Humanity's hands. Why? Well because humanity with Forerunner technology would be quite a power to contend with. Potentially a dangerous one at that for themselves and their own plans for the future.. Basically, Realpolitik.
   
   
2. Remember those Human Splinter groups I mentioned? While they don't have the resources of the UNSC, they still aren't stupid- especially with the larger factions pooling their knowledge and resources together for mutual protection against the UNSC and the Covenant. And even if they can't reproduce the technology, they still can figure out how to use it. So now you've got them running around with Covenant and a few bits of Forerunner technology.

Speaking of technology, we get to see some fucking advancements in the various weapons and so on the players can use. Or in short, 'Yes, UNSC, you can haz pew-pews'. Obviously human-made energy weapons look and probably behave differently from the Covenant versions; think along the lines of a more conventional design, but with a few tweaks and a more industrial edge to them. They'd also be somewhat rare to start with, with the UNSC only giving them to elite units and so on.

As for the Forerunners and the Flood...honestly, I think one of the biggest mistakes that was made was that we learned too much about them. Familiarity breeds contempt and a mystery solved is nowhere as interesting as one that you only have the pieces to. So, had I been planning the post-Halo 3 universe, we wouldn't really have learned much more about the Flood or the Forerunners. They remain mysteries; with the Flood almost certainly not showing up again. Plus, the narrative should be looking forward, not back.

Likewise, I would have done my best to make any large and/or powerful Forerunner artifacts staggeringly rare to find, much less ones containing any real information. As in post Halo 3 canon, it seems that we can't go a game without tripping over them. While the Halo Rings and the Ark worked great for the narrative in Halo 1-3, they don't really fit in with the direction the story is going. Plus, it sort of undermines how we're told that Forerunner tech is supposed to be this rare and marvelous thing, if we keep bumping into it.

Oh and the Halo art style is kept looking more like it did in the 343 era. Likewise, the species should look like they did in Halo 3 (look at how the damn Jackals and Grunts changed appearance every game even in the old days). Which helps keep the visual continuity of the series intact and keeps the fans happy. (Though obviously things like new armor and weapons will look different, they should look like logical extensions of the old art design. Like they're from the same 'family' as it were).

Last but not least, if there's any 'rogue AI' buzzing around, they'd be of human origin or post-Covenant Empire factions trying to make their own. Nothing like 'the Guardians' show up.

 

[Dovahkiin]

Well, however the rest of the game turns out, I'm glad we're dealing with the Banished instead of the Covenant 2.5 (led by Sally Neon or Jul's edgelord son in popular expectation). I just hope they're tied into the story organically, instead of being there solely because the game needs Covenant enemies and having no other purpose.

In other encouraging news, we've already seen what some enemies will look like through toy leaks, and they look a hell of a lot better than 343i's previous contributions...

Spoiler

... and two particular toys seem to suggest a major new gameplay feature for the series.

Spoiler

From this and an advertisement for a 'Banished Skiff', looks like Infinite will have aquatic combat.

 

[DarthOne]

@Tzeentchean Perspective Mind sharing with the class what you found to be so funny?

 

[Erwin_Pommel]

'Yes, UNSC, you can haz pew-pews'. Obviously human-made energy weapons look and probably behave differently from the Covenant versions; think along the lines of a more conventional design, but with a few tweaks and a more industrial edge to them. They'd also be somewhat rare to start with, with the UNSC only giving them to elite units and so on.

Aye, that make sense. Mostly in vehicles though as the Rhino iirc is the earliest deployment of "energy" weapons by the UNSC and this was even early on in the war before Spartans II's even had their shields! If we're going infantry scale, however, I'd say some sort of rapid-fire gauss weapon would do well. Like an exoskeleton-equipped marine hauling about one ala plasma cannon/machine gun/flamethrower style.

 

[Tzeentchean Perspective]

@Tzeentchean Perspective Mind sharing with the class what you found to be so funny?

This:

I'm just hoping that they don't do to Atroix what they did to poor...

I actually had to stop and look up his name. Jul 'Mdama. Which just goes to show how ultimately irrelevant he and his Covenant Splinter Remnant were to the story.

It's just a hilarious example of how 343I goofed up in writing Halo 4/5. That guy was being set up as a major enemy in Halo 4's Spartan ops...then he dies in a cutscene after the first level of Halo 5. Not even a boss battle, a cutscene.

 

[Draco]

In other encouraging news, we've already seen what some enemies will look like through toy leaks, and they look a hell of a lot better than 343i's previous contributions...

Spoiler

... and two particular toys seem to suggest a major new gameplay feature for the series.

Spoiler

From this and an advertisement for a 'Banished Skiff', looks like Infinite will have aquatic combat.

Definitely much better designs overall, I'm just hoping they don't give the Hunters those glowing eyes again. I found those ridiculous.

Also the water vehicles would follow, I saw some interview or post from Frank O'Connor in the past few weeks that had him talking about new water physics and how they ought to be using it more for gameplay than as a scenery feature. I for one just hope the player can go underwater again without exploding as soon as a toe gets wet.

I'm just hoping that they don't do to Atroix what they did to poor...

I actually had to stop and look up his name. Jul 'Mdama. Which just goes to show how ultimately irrelevant he and his Covenant Splinter Remnant were to the story.

Frankly from what I understand, Atriox is already not super relevant in the galactic conflict post-war as it stands, because he has had very little interaction with the major players. The UNSC had barely encountered him, if at all, as a faction leader until the Spirit of Fire ran into them, who aren't exactly representative of the current state of the human polity. And we have no information about his interactions with Thel's forces, so by all accounts he comes off as a random mercenary leader who got lucky with finding the Ark. Which I'm not entirely sure how he managed that, considering the Ark is over 200,000 lightyears from anywhere in the galaxy, and there is no mention of Atriox having attacked Earth.

I believe he should have had a larger role to play in details about the Brutes post war. He's already meant to have some form of cult of personality, had it been something explored in more of the fiction when dealing with the Jiralhanae (say, having him come up during the negotiations between Lydus and Thel in Escalation) it would make him come off as a more important figure, and also tie more of the fiction together. As it stands, the only reason he's in Infinite is because they blew their load killing Jul and they know no one gives a shit about Salted Nylon, and they can't get away with having an ambiguous Covenant presence for the third game in a row.

I don't know if I've shared this before on this website, but to be honest, I would have much preferred that they saved the Didact for later on and given him a heck of a lot more set up to help make the parallels between him and Chief much clearer.

They could have managed it in one game, look at how Halo 2 managed to parallel Thel and Chief. They just needed to...well, actually write a character for the Didact.

Alternatively, and more likely, I would have done the post- Covenant era very differently from what we got. Instead of humanity bouncing back with (apparent ease) and having mega-ships like the Infinity, the galaxy is much more like Europe after the World War 2.

I don't necessarily mind having the Infinity existing, my main issue with it stems from it being something built during the Covenant War. That ship would've costed more than all of the frigates it can carry in its belly three times over, and the UNSC needed every ship it could get. Remember, the Spirit was a refitted colony ship, and the Pillar of Autumn was literally pulled out of the scrap heap because it was better than actual nothing. Having Infinity as a post war creation, especially if you want a greater focus on the humans interacting with Forerunner tech angle, would work as a physical demonstration of the fear you want other species to have of humans acquiring Forerunner materiel, while also just being a big flex in its own right for the UNSC to try and posture themselves as the big kids when they're actually struggling more than they let on.

The Human Covenant War has devastated massive portions of space; humanity and the Covenant have gotten the shit kicked out of them by both the war and, in the Covenant's case, their Civil War. So also sort of a post- fall of the Soviet Union feel. There's no longer one great Enemy who is unambiguously evil, merely a load of lesser evils in a galaxy that is increasingly spinning off its axis into unknown territory.

• I might have a new alien race or two pop up, but they're more off to the side doing their own thing. Mostly to keep the games from feeling like 'more aliens like the Covenant, but different that you have to fight!'

So there's much more of a focus on Covenant Remnant groups and, to some degree, human ones. Both those who have their issues with an alliance with the Sangheili/Elites (ranging from those who want no alliance at all to those who want a more distant alliance) and those who are using the chaos of the post-war period to make a bid for freedom and set up their own factions. Which isn't to mention how all the former-Covenant races view humanity.

While the political conflict certainly needed a better focus post Halo 3, especially with the prospect of the Insurrection actually having legs to stand on with the UNSC being pushed all the way back to Earth, care would need to be taken that you didn't oversaturate the field with different players. One need only look at how much people like Atriox as a nu-Covenant leader compared to Jul and Salty to note that some factions would ultimately hold the audience's attention/influence in the story more than others, which then begs the narrative efficiency question of why those other factions that aren't as important are being given any focus.

Another possibility is that ONI, who come out of the war just as battered as everyone else, get some of their dirty laundry aired. Chaos ensues.

What Halo 5 could have been.

Likewise, there's a lot of focus on scavenging Covenant technologies leftover from the war. Not to mention Forerunner technology. And OH BOY do I have a thing for two to say about the Forerunners and the Flood, but more on that later. Something I'd also like to play with deconstructing is the whole 'humans are special' angle set up in the old Halo EU and the games. Namely, how humans just seem to be much better interacting with and adapting Forerunner technology. This comes back to bite humanity in two major ways.

1. the various factions are very wary of the UNSC and, even some of the good guys, are reluctant to let them get their hands on more Forerunner/ Covenant-derived Forerunner technologies. While the bad guys are doing everything they can to keep said technologies from Humanity's hands. Why? Well because humanity with Forerunner technology would be quite a power to contend with. Potentially a dangerous one at that for themselves and their own plans for the future.. Basically, Realpolitik.
   
   
2. Remember those Human Splinter groups I mentioned? While they don't have the resources of the UNSC, they still aren't stupid- especially with the larger factions pooling their knowledge and resources together for mutual protection against the UNSC and the Covenant. And even if they can't reproduce the technology, they still can figure out how to use it. So now you've got them running around with Covenant and a few bits of Forerunner technology.

Speaking of technology, we get to see some fucking advancements in the various weapons and so on the players can use. Or in short, 'Yes, UNSC, you can haz pew-pews'. Obviously human-made energy weapons look and probably behave differently from the Covenant versions; think along the lines of a more conventional design, but with a few tweaks and a more industrial edge to them. They'd also be somewhat rare to start with, with the UNSC only giving them to elite units and so on.

You'd probably want to start with derivations off the idea of the Spartan Laser, much like the different vehicles in Halo Wars did. I for one wouldn't have much interest in the UNSC getting bog standard Star Wars type blasters, at any rate.

As for the Forerunners and the Flood...honestly, I think one of the biggest mistakes that was made was that we learned too much about them. Familiarity breeds contempt and a mystery solved is nowhere as interesting as one that you only have the pieces to. So, had I been planning the post-Halo 3 universe, we wouldn't really have learned much more about the Flood or the Forerunners. They remain mysteries; with the Flood almost certainly not showing up again. Plus, the narrative should be looking forward, not back.

"Resignation is my virtue, like water I ebb and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved, but you imposed." -The Gravemind, Halo 3

Unlike the Covenant polity, the Flood is not something the galaxy can so easily get away from. Whether as the actual parasite, or the logic plague detailed in the Forerunner books (which sets up the threat as much more metaphysical, which I think is the correct course). Though we are agreed, the level of detail they put into the Forerunners in some places was a misstep, with not enough parallels to the galaxy as it is today; see the obvious parallels they could have done between Chief losing Cortana fighting the Ur-Didact to the IsoDidact losing the Librarian when firing the rings.

Also, much more distinction between the Didacts needed, because the same guy/not the same guy shit to the point where the Librarian was both of their wives was a load of nonsense. And fuck the genesong.

Likewise, I would have done my best to make any large and/or powerful Forerunner artifacts staggeringly rare to find, much less ones containing any real information. As in post Halo 3 canon, it seems that we can't go a game without tripping over them. While the Halo Rings and the Ark worked great for the narrative in Halo 1-3, they don't really fit in with the direction the story is going. Plus, it sort of undermines how we're told that Forerunner tech is supposed to be this rare and marvelous thing, if we keep bumping into it.

Well, it was sort of the nature of the things, even in the original trilogy, that finding one big Forerunner thing led very quickly to finding another three. Remember, it only took about two months for the UNSC and Covenant to go from finding a rock on Sigma Octanus, to a Halo ring, to another ring, to the portal at Voi, and then the Ark.

Last but not least, if there's any 'rogue AI' buzzing around, they'd be of human origin or post-Covenant Empire factions trying to make their own. Nothing like 'the Guardians' show up.

You could have done something with the Created (like give them a better name for one) but it needed way better establishment than what it got. It could have been the logic plague, the Flood in a new skin (deconstructing people to make them crazy robots to fight in your own army has it parallels with turning people into crazy zombies), but even if it is supposed to be that it doesn't come across. Because the writers will say "oh, Cortana's not evil gaiz" but then have her quote the Gravemind when accessing the Domain in a comic, so I don't know what the fuck they're doing.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Well, however the rest of the game turns out, I'm glad we're dealing with the Banished instead of the Covenant 2.5 (led by Sally Neon or Jul's edgelord son in popular expectation). I just hope they're tied into the story organically, instead of being there solely because the game needs Covenant enemies and having no other purpose.

In other encouraging news, we've already seen what some enemies will look like through toy leaks, and they look a hell of a lot better than 343i's previous contributions...

Spoiler

... and two particular toys seem to suggest a major new gameplay feature for the series.

Spoiler

From this and an advertisement for a 'Banished Skiff', looks like Infinite will have aquatic combat.

Halo four- fight a group of covenant pirates
Halo five- fight a group of covenant pirates
Halo six- fight a group of covenant pirates

Atrium or Arnold or Alphonso or whatever the fuck his name is IS Jul Mdama! Every second spent on him is a second wasted by the writers. Just another in a line of shitty excuses to fight the covenant again.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Halo seems to be suffering from the problem that more then a few scifi franchises have come across when their bipolar division of galactic power that sustained the franchise for so long finally ends.

It's like what literally happened with Wing Commander. The first three games were about the Humans fighting the Kilrathi. Then after that war was one, they were like... Oh I guess we can fight disaffected Humans and stuff now for Wing Commander 4 and make the iconic leader a traitor or something.

Then for the fifth one we'll just do what every other scifi franchise is doing and introduce an otherworldly bio-organic alien species bent on omnicidal conquest or whatever.

Neither was as beloved as the first three games where you were fighting the furballs.

It's like with Dragon Age: Origins which shot their load with the Darkspawn and after that everything just seemed that much less epic. Or the Mass Effect series taking place after the first three games were dealing with the Reapers. How can you follow that up?

You go big. You commit to this great divisive war between two great powers. After these plotlines are resolved... then your either working with the scraps or have to radically change the franchise and risk introducing something so new that it just won't work and instead your franchise slowly circles a beautifully giant toilet seat in the sky. Looking at you Stargate SG-1 with your Ori storylines those last few seasons.

 

[DarthOne]

Frankly from what I understand, Atriox is already not super relevant in the galactic conflict post-war as it stands, because he has had very little interaction with the major players. The UNSC had barely encountered him, if at all, as a faction leader until the Spirit of Fire ran into them, who aren't exactly representative of the current state of the human polity. And we have no information about his interactions with Thel's forces, so by all accounts he comes off as a random mercenary leader who got lucky with finding the Ark. Which I'm not entirely sure how he managed that, considering the Ark is over 200,000 lightyears from anywhere in the galaxy, and there is no mention of Atriox having attacked Earth.

I believe he should have had a larger role to play in details about the Brutes post war. He's already meant to have some form of cult of personality, had it been something explored in more of the fiction when dealing with the Jiralhanae (say, having him come up during the negotiations between Lydus and Thel in Escalation) it would make him come off as a more important figure, and also tie more of the fiction together. As it stands, the only reason he's in Infinite is because they blew their load killing Jul and they know no one gives a shit about Salted Nylon, and they can't get away with having an ambiguous Covenant presence for the third game in a row.

They could have managed it in one game, look at how Halo 2 managed to parallel Thel and Chief. They just needed to...well, actually write a character for the Didact.

On that, we are in complete agreement. And I've often puzzled over how the heck the Banished got to the Ark myself a few times.

I don't necessarily mind having the Infinity existing, my main issue with it stems from it being something built during the Covenant War. That ship would've costed more than all of the frigates it can carry in its belly three times over, and the UNSC needed every ship it could get. Remember, the Spirit was a refitted colony ship, and the Pillar of Autumn was literally pulled out of the scrap heap because it was better than actual nothing. Having Infinity as a post war creation, especially if you want a greater focus on the humans interacting with Forerunner tech angle, would work as a physical demonstration of the fear you want other species to have of humans acquiring Forerunner materiel, while also just being a big flex in its own right for the UNSC to try and posture themselves as the big kids when they're actually struggling more than they let on.

Very good points and ideas there! Kind of reminds me of Imperial Japan's Yamato class-ships; they knew they couldn't out build the USA in numbers, so they went for big ships to act as force multipliers and ego-pieces

While the political conflict certainly needed a better focus post Halo 3, especially with the prospect of the Insurrection actually having legs to stand on with the UNSC being pushed all the way back to Earth, care would need to be taken that you didn't oversaturate the field with different players. One need only look at how much people like Atriox as a nu-Covenant leader compared to Jul and Salty to note that some factions would ultimately hold the audience's attention/influence in the story more than others, which then begs the narrative efficiency question of why those other factions that aren't as important are being given any focus.

Oh most certainly! I'd think you'd have, at most three or four major antagonist factions in total spread out among the ex-Covenant races and Insurrectionists. Though you'd get maybe the occasional mention of minor factions or maybe have a minor faction that only shows up for a mission or two. For example, imagine you have to assassinate someone or otherwise disrupt a meeting between one of the major antagonist factions and one or two of the minor factions who the major faction is trying to get to join them or the like.

What Halo 5 could have been.

indeed.

You'd probably want to start with derivations off the idea of the Spartan Laser, much like the different vehicles in Halo Wars did. I for one wouldn't have much interest in the UNSC getting bog standard Star Wars type blasters, at any rate.

Yes and no. While I don't want Halo to turn into Star Wars, if a franchise doesn't advance in terms of narrative and what the people in it can and cannot do, it runs the high risk of becoming stagnant. Look at Star Wars and Disney Wars and see how both had an overabundance of Dark Siders and super-weapons of the week (which quickly became old) because the writers stuck with the formula of the Original Trilogy.

"Resignation is my virtue, like water I ebb and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved, but you imposed." -The Gravemind, Halo 3

Unlike the Covenant polity, the Flood is not something the galaxy can so easily get away from. Whether as the actual parasite, or the logic plague detailed in the Forerunner books (which sets up the threat as much more metaphysical, which I think is the correct course). Though we are agreed, the level of detail they put into the Forerunners in some places was a misstep, with not enough parallels to the galaxy as it is today; see the obvious parallels they could have done between Chief losing Cortana fighting the Ur-Didact to the IsoDidact losing the Librarian when firing the rings.

Also, much more distinction between the Didacts needed, because the same guy/not the same guy shit to the point where the Librarian was both of their wives was a load of nonsense. And fuck the genesong.

Well, it was sort of the nature of the things, even in the original trilogy, that finding one big Forerunner thing led very quickly to finding another three. Remember, it only took about two months for the UNSC and Covenant to go from finding a rock on Sigma Octanus, to a Halo ring, to another ring, to the portal at Voi, and then the Ark.

You could have done something with the Created (like give them a better name for one) but it needed way better establishment than what it got. It could have been the logic plague, the Flood in a new skin (deconstructing people to make them crazy robots to fight in your own army has it parallels with turning people into crazy zombies), but even if it is supposed to be that it doesn't come across. Because the writers will say "oh, Cortana's not evil gaiz" but then have her quote the Gravemind when accessing the Domain in a comic, so I don't know what the fuck they're doing.

On this I disagree. I think that the flood should have been left a mystery and should not come back. We've already beaten the Flood in four, now five games (Halo 1-3 and Halo Wars 1-2). Frankly I'm sick of them by this point and I hate how OP they've become now that we know so much about them. And the stuff with the precursors, ancient Humans and the Forerunners is all just meh at best for me. As for the Logic plague, it just feels like we're going from 'space zombies' to the 'evil robots' trope. In short, trading one tired plot for another.

Plus, putting my personal feelings aside, dropping the Flood helps keep that feeling of 'no more (ancient) big bad evil to fight' and 'the giants have left the playground, but they left their guns behind' that I'd be aiming for.

PS:Well, the idea I'm going for is that there's really only so many big awesome forerunner artifacts to find and we've sort of discovered/ blow up most of them by this point.

 

[DarthOne]

Halo seems to be suffering from the problem that more then a few scifi franchises have come across when their bipolar division of galactic power that sustained the franchise for so long finally ends.

It's like what literally happened with Wing Commander. The first three games were about the Humans fighting the Kilrathi. Then after that war was one, they were like... Oh I guess we can fight disaffected Humans and stuff now for Wing Commander 4 and make the iconic leader a traitor or something.

Then for the fifth one we'll just do what every other scifi franchise is doing and introduce an otherworldly bio-organic alien species bent on omnicidal conquest or whatever.

Neither was as beloved as the first three games where you were fighting the furballs.

It's like with Dragon Age: Origins which shot their load with the Darkspawn and after that everything just seemed that much less epic. Or the Mass Effect series taking place after the first three games were dealing with the Reapers. How can you follow that up?

You go big. You commit to this great divisive war between two great powers. After these plotlines are resolved... then your either working with the scraps or have to radically change the franchise and risk introducing something so new that it just won't work and instead your franchise slowly circles a beautifully giant toilet seat in the sky. Looking at you Stargate SG-1 with your Ori storylines those last few seasons.

I think the best way to get around that isn't so much a question of trying to raise the stakes back to what they were, if not higher, but to make the conflict interesting via nuance and or making the antagonists interesting characters that we can't help but either root for a little, or love to hate. Look no further then Ba'al from Stargate, or Kane from Command and Conquer.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Very good points and ideas there! Kind of reminds me of Imperial Japan's Yamato class-ships; they knew they couldn't out build the USA in numbers, so they went for big ships to act as force multipliers and ego-pieces

Sure, the Infinity would be like the Yammato, if every US ship bigger than a PT boat was one-shotting every class in the IJN with impunity and the IJN had already decided to build nothing but destroyers and torpedo boats years before.

 

[DarthOne]

Sure, the Infinity would be like the Yammato, if every US ship bigger than a PT boat was one-shotting every class in the IJN with impunity and the IJN had already decided to build nothing but destroyers and torpedo boats years before.

I was referring to and making a metaphor of the Infinity class itself, not the wider picture of the Human-Covenant war.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

I was referring to and making a metaphor of the Infinity class itself, not the wider picture of the Human-Covenant war.

Yes, I know, I'm saying the metaphor doesnt quite capture the scale of the suicidal retardation that needed to be present throughout the top brass of the UNSC to get the infinity made.

 

[DarthOne]

Yes, I know, I'm saying the metaphor doesnt quite capture the scale of the suicidal retardation that needed to be present throughout the top brass of the UNSC to get the infinity made.

Ah, your referring to how the UNSC didn't have working capital ship-grade energy shields or energy weapons during the Covenant War, meaning that even if they had got it finished in time, it would have just been a big target for the Covenant? And how the resources that went into building the Infinity would have been better spent else where?

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Ah, your referring to how the UNSC didn't have working capital ship-grade energy shields or energy weapons during the Covenant War, meaning that even if they had got it finished in time, it would have just been a big target for the Covenant? And how the resources that went into building the Infinity would have been better spent else where?

Not refering to the lack of energy shields or energy weapons specifically, but more generally to the disparity between covenant and UNSC ships. But yes, broadly. The Infinity, before it's post-war bootstrapping with new technology, would have held up as well as the Hindenburg in a battle. You make a supership fifty times the size of a destroyer, and you get at absolute best one tenth that value.

World's most expensive single use Energy Projector target.