United States George Floyd Protests, Reactions and Riots

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Have an example, you do?

I think I put one in the Rittenhouse thread...I'll dig around after lunch.

 

[Sailor.X]

I actually agree that there shouldn't be any no-knock warrants, and from the body cam footage, it actually is obvious that the police lied about the sequence of events (as in they claimed they announced themselves before entering, but in fact only announced themselves as they were rushing in). He did have a gun, but it is said he had a permit to carry. I don't know if that's true or not, but this is another case where I'm at least kind of against the police. I'm just worried this is going to turn into yet another circus and be an excuse to have yet another round of "mostly peaceful protests."

No knock warrants need to be made illegal. If you google how many times the cops have raided the WRONG house and shot some innocent person by accident in the process it will make you mad.

 

[Marduk]

No knock warrants need to be made illegal. If you google how many times the cops have raided the WRONG house and shot some innocent person by accident in the process it will make you mad.

A good start would be to at least limit them in who and why can do them. No more random, possibly undertrained city PD doing no knock raids. If it absolutely has to be done, it better be something worth summoning FBI SWAT, DEA, US Marshals or other organization that is meant to be good at it. That in turn would also limit the number of these raids, and with both lower number and more competence the number of snafus involved would fall dramatically.

 

[Husky_Khan]

In this case it was a SWAT Team that was dispatched to the residence which is undoubtedly why they were able to so effortlessly gun this innocent person down so efficiently instead of spraying fifty round and hitting a few neighbors and bystanders.

Sources tell WCCO-TV that Minneapolis police would not serve the search warrant that ended in the death of Amir Locke unless it was a “no-knock” warrant.

St. Paul police originally asked for a “knock-and-announce warrant,” but only went back to get the “no-knock” warrant after Minneapolis police said they would not serve the first one, the sources said.

On Friday, St. Paul police also confirmed that the search warrants in the incident were signed by a Hennepin County judge and will remain sealed until a court determines otherwise, as is standard practice in homicide investigations and per Minnesota law.

The raid was in connection to an ongoing Homicide Investigation being conducted by the St. Paul Police but the victim wasn't named on the warrant.

Amir Locke Fatal Shooting By MPD: What We Know (And Don't Know) So Far

In the days following a Minneapolis police officer fatally shooting Amir Locke, a Black man, in a downtown apartment building, body camera footage has been released and the family has publicly condemned the shooting. Here's what we know (and don't know) so far.

minnesota.cbslocal.com

 

[Zachowon]

In this case it was a SWAT Team that was dispatched to the residence which is undoubtedly why they were able to so effortlessly gun this innocent person down so efficiently instead of spraying fifty round and hitting a few neighbors and bystanders.



The raid was in connection to an ongoing Homicide Investigation being conducted by the St. Paul Police but the victim wasn't named on the warrant.

Amir Locke Fatal Shooting By MPD: What We Know (And Don't Know) So Far

In the days following a Minneapolis police officer fatally shooting Amir Locke, a Black man, in a downtown apartment building, body camera footage has been released and the family has publicly condemned the shooting. Here's what we know (and don't know) so far.

minnesota.cbslocal.com

More information and the complete search warrant, as well as the youtuber breaking down why Amir Locke isnt as innocent as he may seem.

 

[Sailor.X]

More information and the complete search warrant, as well as the youtuber breaking down why Amir Locke isnt as innocent as he may seem.

You have to take everything B Tatum says now with a grain of salt. Take a look at some vidoes he did a few weeks earlier. He got a few things wrong and did not correct the record.

 

[Sailor.X]

Also on the subject of No Knock Warrants.



And to add.

 

[Abhorsen]

More information and the complete search warrant, as well as the youtuber breaking down why Amir Locke isnt as innocent as he may seem.

This whole video excuses jack shit. The guy even acknowledges that Amir Locke wasn't the one that police were there for. This is why people call you a bootlicker. Even when it's completely obvious the police have done wrong, you try to make excuses.

The police should probably almost never have a no-knock warrant. Drug cases don't matter enough to try save the evidence vs the risk of police killing an innocent, and for cases where they're not concerned about hostage situations, the cops can do what they used to do: surround the house and announce themselves, then raid if they don't come out (there's plenty of ways to raid with a high degree of safety even when they know you are going to come, if the opponents aren't trained). Yes it's harder, but it's a degree of difficulty worth not killing people during raids.

 

[Doomsought]

The only things that justify a no-knock warrant are things that justify the use of state militia rather than police.

 

[Battlegrinder]

The only things that justify a no-knock warrant are things that justify the use of state militia rather than police.

That's going too far in the other direction, and it's actually a worse idea. SWAT teams are actually trained for no knock warrants and it's rare for them to screw it up (it only seems like they constantly drop the ball because no knock are overused and the media actively amplifies every mistake while erasing any context). National Guard troops aren't trained for this and can't be mobilized quickly enough to step in and replace SWAT. That's one of the reasons swat teams exist in the first place.

 

[Rocinante]

That's going too far in the other direction, and it's actually a worse idea. SWAT teams are actually trained for no knock warrants and it's rare for them to screw it up (it only seems like they constantly drop the ball because no knock are overused and the media actively amplifies every mistake while erasing any context). National Guard troops aren't trained for this and can't be mobilized quickly enough to step in and replace SWAT. That's one of the reasons swat teams exist in the first place.

I don't think he was suggesting using state militia rather than police, but saying that the only things that should allow for a no knock warrant are things that are severe enough that it might be considered a military type situation.

That's how I understood it at least.

 

[Doomsought]

That's going too far in the other direction, and it's actually a worse idea. SWAT teams are actually trained for no knock warrants and it's rare for them to screw it up (it only seems like they constantly drop the ball because no knock are overused and the media actively amplifies every mistake while erasing any context). National Guard troops aren't trained for this and can't be mobilized quickly enough to step in and replace SWAT. That's one of the reasons swat teams exist in the first place.

Swat teams should not exist. What they are called to do, deal with active combat situations, are something that should be dealt with by militia, not police.

Swat is one of the worst things that have ever happened to the American justice system. They both trivialized the matter and also weakened the state militia by denying them one of their primary purposes.

 

[Zachowon]

You have to take everything B Tatum says now with a grain of salt. Take a look at some vidoes he did a few weeks earlier. He got a few things wrong and did not correct the record.

Like what?
and if there is an issue let him know, he is willing to fix things if he gets things wrong and enough point it out.

This whole video excuses jack shit. The guy even acknowledges that Amir Locke wasn't the one that police were there for. This is why people call you a bootlicker. Even when it's completely obvious the police have done wrong, you try to make excuses.

The police should probably almost never have a no-knock warrant. Drug cases don't matter enough to try save the evidence vs the risk of police killing an innocent, and for cases where they're not concerned about hostage situations, the cops can do what they used to do: surround the house and announce themselves, then raid if they don't come out (there's plenty of ways to raid with a high degree of safety even when they know you are going to come, if the opponents aren't trained). Yes it's harder, but it's a degree of difficulty worth not killing people during raids.

So people that have killed multiple other people and are known to be armed, saying you are Police is the fastest way for them to find a way out the back or to shoot you.

Appartments are a LOT harder to lock down as well, and it depends on the amount of officers ailable and everything. if it isnt a hostage situation, like this one, they would sendt he SWAT team, and thier job is to get in, clear the house and everything.
Am I saying Locke is justified? No, but he was spending time at a family members house who has murdered people.... The idea that he was armed was because he was most liekly worried some people are after those who live there is not far fetched.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Swat teams should not exist. What they are called to do, deal with active combat situations, are something that should be dealt with by militia, not police.

Swat is one of the worst things that have ever happened to the American justice system. They both trivialized the matter and also weakened the state militia by denying them one of their primary purposes.

Even if the national guard was trained to handle policing duties, which they're not, at best it takes hours to get even a small national guard unit assembled and mobilized, and it requires authorization from the state governor to order that mobilization. It's not feasible to try and replace SWAT units with national guard troops, that's why thry had to develop SWAT in the first place.

And before you say "well, they should just keep a reserve of national guard guys on standby, and train them for policing", that's also not practical, states and cities cannot afford to pay hundreds of soldiers to sit around all day doing nothing (they can't afford to do that with SWAT units either, that's why SWAT teams normally work as regular officers and only gear up as needed).

 

[Abhorsen]

So people that have killed multiple other people and are known to be armed, saying you are Police is the fastest way for them to find a way out the back or to shoot you.

Appartments are a LOT harder to lock down as well, and it depends on the amount of officers ailable and everything. if it isnt a hostage situation, like this one, they would sendt he SWAT team, and thier job is to get in, clear the house and everything.

That's literally the job they agreed to do. Its a tough dangerous job. But part of that job is valuing the lives of the people they serve, such as Amir Locke, above their own. The State quite simply has no right to do no-knock raids. I quite simply don't care it makes it slightly safer for police. It makes it more dangerous for everyone else, including the innocent.

Am I saying Locke is justified? No, but he was spending time at a family members house who has murdered people.... The idea that he was armed was because he was most liekly worried some people are after those who live there is not far fetched.

That's a totally legitimate reason to have a gun as an innocent person. The fact that the police killed him is absolute bullshit.

Seriously this back the blue no matter who is shit for everyone, democrats and conservatives.

 

[Zachowon]

That's literally the job they agreed to do. Its a tough dangerous job. But part of that job is valuing the lives of the people they serve, such as Amir Locke, above their own. The State quite simply has no right to do no-knock raids. I quite simply don't care it makes it slightly safer for police. It makes it more dangerous for everyone else, including the innocent.


That's a totally legitimate reason to have a gun as an innocent person. The fact that the police killed him is absolute bullshit.

Seriously this back the blue no matter who is shit for everyone, democrats and conservatives.

I am just saying if his cousins were not criminals and were not pissing people off, he wouldnt have to sleep on the couch with a fucking gun...

Ah yes, announce you are there, get shot, and if they have something bigger then a hand gun potentially get multiple of the people on the other side of the door. Cops also can not return fire blindly because that is how innocents die, so more people are put at risk.

One has to take into account the risk to others and oneself. Is the risk of a shootout worth it in an apartment building?

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I am just saying if his cousins were not criminals and were not pissing people off, he wouldnt have to sleep on the couch with a fucking gun...

It sure would be nice if we didnt' have to fear bad people doing bad things. This is America, you have the right to bear arms to protect your rights and life.

Ah yes, announce you are there, get shot, and if they have something bigger then a hand gun potentially get multiple of the people on the other side of the door. Cops also can not return fire blindly because that is how innocents die, so more people are put at risk.

Or announce yourself and talk the idiot down. Not a perfect solution because there isn't one. Life is risk, cops, especially SWAT, signs up for that risk.

One has to take into account the risk to others and oneself. Is the risk of a shootout worth it in an apartment building?

So we should NOT enforce the law?

I'm all about cops catching crooks.

I'm also for ending no-knock warrants b/c those things are suspect as hell constitutionally & the NATURALLY endanger the cops in EACH INSTANCE.

 

[Zachowon]

It sure would be nice if we didnt' have to fear bad people doing bad things. This is America, you have the right to bear arms to protect your rights and life.

Or announce yourself and talk the idiot down. Not a perfect solution because there isn't one. Life is risk, cops, especially SWAT, signs up for that risk.

So we should NOT enforce the law?

I'm all about cops catching crooks.

I'm also for ending no-knock warrants b/c those things are suspect as hell constitutionally & the NATURALLY endanger the cops in EACH INSTANCE.

SWAT are not to talk, they are to move in. They are the ones used when normal cops are at to much of a risk.

They were there for someone who commited a homicide and was known to have guns and shoot at (IIRC Cops) so they knew knocking would just get them shot at if the man was there.

I am not saying this instance was justified, and the cops should have announced, but do you casually sleep with your gun basically in your hand because you know there is a chance someone who wants you dead tries to break in?

We should enforce the law, but just like in the military, one has to make a risk assessment. Is the risk better to endanger those in the rooms around you?

 

[Doomsought]

Even if the national guard was trained to handle policing duties, which they're not, at best it takes hours to get even a small national guard unit assembled and mobilized, and it requires authorization from the state governor to order that mobilization. It's not feasible to try and replace SWAT units with national guard troops, that's why thry had to develop SWAT in the first place.

And before you say "well, they should just keep a reserve of national guard guys on standby, and train them for policing", that's also not practical, states and cities cannot afford to pay hundreds of soldiers to sit around all day doing nothing (they can't afford to do that with SWAT units either, that's why SWAT teams normally work as regular officers and only gear up as needed).

The expediency that is lost with the use of militia is specifically why I think swat should be abolished. The purpose of SWAT is not policing, the purpose of swat is assault.

 

[Battlegrinder]

The expediency that is lost with the use of militia is specifically why I think swat should be abolished.

I just explained how the process of deploying the national guard is anything but expedient.

The purpose of SWAT is not policing, the purpose of swat is assault.

Please explain this in more detail, I don't understand what you're trying to claim.

It sounds like you're saying you think SWAT is supposed to only be used for kick down the door, take no prisoners style paramilitary operations, which is A) wrong, and B) extremely illegal.