One has to think, if we don't help out in Taiwan with enough manpower, what is to.stop China from pushing towards Phillipines, surrounding out territories?
General military questions thread
- Thread starter Buba
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Those nation's own militaries, and China's own internal issues.
Even without the US or anyone else getting involved, no way the CCP takes Taiwan or any other nation, militarily without 3 Gorges and a lot of other critical bits eating a cruise missiles or suicide drone.
The weight and power regional navies and militaries have, versus depending on us when domestic politics may get in the way, the better.
I know history, I know the threat is there if China does something stupid, and that the public doesn't quite get it. But I also know how much of the public sees it, and that he elites who control things make more money and influence in grey zone/proxy fights than in actual full scale war.
As well, MAD wasn't around during the last world war, and as far as most of the public is concerned, war with China ends in MAD, so what's the point in worrying about conventional capabilities?
I mean I understand how the conventional forces keep the nuclear triad intact and functional, but I also under how most of this is rather esoteric knowledge not many average joes or janes consider or even know.
I do not say these things because I like the positions, but because I can see how the winds are blowing in multiple parts of the domestic side, and understand the disconnect between some types of military versus civie thinking.
I am trying to help you better understand the realities of the domestic side, and how that relates to the seeming foregone conclusion you have that we will engage in a conventional war with the CCP that will require a draft.
That is a conclusion that ignores the political and socio-econmic realities of the current US domestic situation, while also bypassing the question of 'how' you change said domestic political situation to make a draft politically acceptable to enough people for it to happen, all while trying to avoid ACW 2.0 if a draft is floated and is not popular with the public.
You also forget groups like BLM and other Woke groups are often partly funded by the CCP or proxies, and they wield enormous social power. The CCP got Disney and the NBA to fucking bend the knee, and have had their 'researcher/student' spies everywhere in this nation for years figuring out how we tick as a society.
Wake up and smell the suck; until you do, you won't be able to properly guage public perception, and understand why all the military training and exercises in the world do not change the domestic realities of why it unlikely a full scale war with China will happen as you claim.
My goal isn't to deal with public perception. It is to tell the issue that war is on the corner and it won't be a small proxy war anymore.
If China continues on its rapid decline, they get desperate. Dragging in Russia and Iran.
That alone is an ossue
Bassoe
Well-known member
A better question might be, why should we care? Your mistake is correlating the interests of the American Empire's leadership with the interests of its citizens. Letting China play at imperialism might not be in the best interests of the American Empire's leadership, but I'm a plebeian. All my friends and family are plebeians. We wouldn't benefit. Our best interests consist of not being used as cannon fodder.
Here's the best case scenario for how a modern war between America and China would actually play out:
- Large numbers of young American men who've been rendered economically redundant by automation and globalization and whom changing societal norms have denied any chance of marriage and family are drafted and sent off to get shot by large numbers of drafted young Chinese men who're in essentially the same situation thanks to the One Child gender imbalance. In this manner, the American and Chinese status quos both remove threats to themselves
- Large sums of money, either taken directly from American taxpayers or printed, devaluing the preexisting savings of American citizens are given to military-industry complex megacorps to create even more redundant military equipment.
- Various laws to censor dissidence against the status quo and spy upon everyone are forced through, justified by 'wartime emergency'. Needless to say, once the war is over, they're never going away.
- Any potential postwar benefits for the survivors in the form of improved wages and working conditions, now that the supply of potential employees has been decimated by the war while the demand for labor remains the same will be nonexistent, the employers will simply import substitute labor from abroad, offshore the jobs to countries uninvolved in the war, automate the jobs out of existence, or some combination of the above. This also means returning soldiers won't be able to get their jobs back.
- Veterans will be screwed by the state they served, just like in every single other one of America's wars.
- The war is an enormous bloody stalemate, insofar as, if either side looks like they're winning the conventional war, their opponent can threaten MAD.
Eh, not really.
That may be the aspect you think, but it wont be like that. The world economy will tank no matter what happens though
paulobrito
Well-known member
What China rapid decline?
The countless construction failures, the massive pushback from causing COVID. Etc etc
paulobrito
Well-known member
Ah, I see, you are one of these that believe too much in US propaganda. Figures.
Except it isn't US propaganda....
Morphic Tide
Well-known member
Hell, at that point you can frankly see somebody dusting off something like the SR-71 as a kamakazi. Just total lunatic speed to physically ram a full-sized jet into the wall.
That's pretty obvious to anyone with any sort of knowledge and understanding.
I don't think Putin is that stupid.
If China wants to go crazy, Putin will keep Russia neutral and try to stake out his claim after the dust has settled.
KGB wasn't full of idiots.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Three Gorges Dam is a massive concrete structure, jets are fragile build, it will only scratch the surface. The cruise missiles also won't do much. You would need MOPs to do the job.
Your war cravings are warping your perception of reality, find some other masturbation fantasies as your current ones are bad for your mental health.
paulobrito
Well-known member
Right...
Well, time is going to prove which one of us is correct.
Until that, everyone is entitled is delusions.
We have plenty of news coming from China about the massive amounts of dam busting and flooding happening. As well as growing unrest.
paulobrito
Well-known member
And we have news from massive droughts and fires in the USA and the infrastructure is crumbling. And about half the population don't approve of the governement. Your point?
It would depend on how strong the dam actually is.
Given that we know all about the quality of architecture in China.
Buba
A total creep
In the Order of the Stick online comic one of the characters has a skill called
"Craft Disturbing Mental Image".
You possess it too!
Good for you
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
If it was so flimsy that it could have been brought down by jet plane ramming, it wouldn't be able to stand the pressure of water behind it. Hollywood pyrotechnics don't work that well in real life.
Probably the best way to commit this war crime would be to hit the bedrock at the foundation of the dam with multiple MOPs, to endanger the dam stability.
Not to the level of China.
paulobrito
Well-known member
US-related media - the natural problems in China are much worse than ours.
China-related media - The natural problems in the US are much worse than ours.
EU-related media - we have our own floods, thank you very much.
me - everybody is fxxxd.