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shangrila

Well-known member
God that just sounds like a stupid story. I kinda want there to be a story where the plucky American freedom fighter fights aliens that aren't retarded and he ends up losing.
The freedom fighters didn't win. Earth was conquered by what was basically Space Somalia but humans still had absolutely no chance. The MC won by drawing on his profitable trade relations with Space America to induce them to intervene after striking a single symbolic victory, France in the Revolutionary War after Saratoga style.

Like I said, Ringo isn't a shit writer, he just can't control his self-indulgence.
 

shangrila

Well-known member
Milscifi is dime a dozen. It's just all Space WWII, Space Napoleonic Wars, Space Vietnam, or recently even Space War on Terror.

Milscifi that takes real life space science and engineering seriously is what's ultra rare, rarer than even hard scifi itself. The interest is just too niche, and it's too much work for the typical schlock writer. Ringo is probably advantaged by his collaborations with actual rocket scientist Travis Taylor. The only other writer I'm aware of that's produced multiple works in this field is William H Keith (and his numerous pseudonyms) and he puts in lots of weird personal appeals into his books too. Namely neopagan religions and assorted group marriages becoming prevalent.
 

ATP

Well-known member
For the time being I think I will stick with Larry Correia and David Weber.
There is one John Ringo series which is worth reading:

4 book Looking Glass series - evil Dreen try to eat/enslave world,USA try to stop them,get 3 freindly alien races ,but would ultimatelly lost anyway,if series continue.

Becouse Dreen had numbers,and could send another fllet after one was destroyed,where humans in the end had 2 spaceships.
God that just sounds like a stupid story. I kinda want there to be a story where the plucky American freedom fighter fights aliens that aren't retarded and he ends up losing.
Alens could be retardes,as long as they have numbers and technology.If you have 1M soldiers with M.16 ,tanks,artillery and planes,and noble opponent had ,let say,5k dudes with hunting rifles,they would lost,even if your commander were genuine idiot.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
There is one John Ringo series which is worth reading:

4 book Looking Glass series - evil Dreen try to eat/enslave world,USA try to stop them,get 3 freindly alien races ,but would ultimatelly lost anyway,if series continue.

Becouse Dreen had numbers,and could send another fllet after one was destroyed,where humans in the end had 2 spaceships.

Alens could be retardes,as long as they have numbers and technology.If you have 1M soldiers with M.16 ,tanks,artillery and planes,and noble opponent had ,let say,5k dudes with hunting rifles,they would lost,even if your commander were genuine idiot.
I generally assume people aren’t idiots. In alien invasion stories the writers should put themselves in the place of the alien invaders and what you would do if you were an alien invader or a foreign occupier. I know if I was an alien with advanced technology I could conquer earth and I’m not some genius only the dumbest of the dumb couldn’t.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
i.e. greatly increase their sex drive and makes hormonal birth control ineffective
1. If hormonal birth control is ineffective, that means lots of dead women and babies. As women will now ovulate while already pregnant. and sex will result in new fetuses forming on top of the old fetuses. causing a horrible mess inside the woman. As well as miscarriages if they don't get double pregnant when the period starts after a failed ovulation.

2. Why even bother making a virus that makes hormonal birth control ineffective when they literally control all the worlds govts? Just literally order the FDA and all its equivalents to ban hormonal birth control. And shut down the factories that make it.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
I generally assume people aren’t idiots. In alien invasion stories the writers should put themselves in the place of the alien invaders and what you would do if you were an alien invader or a foreign occupier. I know if I was an alien with advanced technology I could conquer earth and I’m not some genius only the dumbest of the dumb couldn’t.
I mean... the russian invasion of ukraine proves people can be idiots.
But at the same time, xenos this stupid probably would have crashed into Jupiter instead of reaching earth to invdae.
 

shangrila

Well-known member
Speaking of scifi authors spamming their personal bugbears and perhaps more on topic, you might know the late Eric Flint is leftist, but you might not know how leftist until you read his earlier book Mother of Demons.

A human colony starship crashes on an alien planet with an indigenous civilization roughly at Roman Empire level of development. The Starship is stated to be the first and the last ever, as advanced civilization on Earth was about to collapse from climate change. This has become a surprisingly common backstory in leftist scifi, for instance it's part of the backstory of the Beyond Earth video game, the supposed SMAC successor. Yes, it's completely ridiculous that a civilization with the energy budget for STL interstellar flight has a problem maintaining civilization against climate change.

Every adult onboard the ship dies immediately or shortly thereafter from malnutrition. Only a single adult and the children survive to the point of figuring out how to consume the native life, with the adult effectively becoming mother to all of them. She hides away the ship's surviving technology, including fully operational computers and databases so the children will grow up stone age tribals, explicitly so they could not develop beyond the indigenous species and perhaps colonize them in the future. The last third of the book is various characters, both human and alien praying to her like a god to release just enough knowledge to defeat a powerful enemy to progressive sensibilities. No one questions her right to deny the children their heritage or that of mankind, or her right to make the ultimate decision, everyone only wanted to persuade her. I get the feeling that character is the ultimate progressive self-insert.

Now, what's this offense to progressive sensibilities that she needs to defeat with her gift of knowledge? The alien species are a bunch of landsquids. There are breeder females, very few in number and enormous; neuter females, making up the vast majority and doing all the general work; and males, physically tiny and relatively few forming small harems for each breeder. Obviously the breeder females mate with males and produce all the children, while the neuters pairbond amongst each other. The main alien character is a neuter female, exiled for being a pervert by pairbonding with a male. Isn't Flint clever for making non-homosexuals the perverts? And the main villains so evil the MC needs to allow humans their technology, are an alien empire ruled by neuters that forces all their breeders and males to do nothing but reproduce.

1. If hormonal birth control is ineffective, that means lots of dead women and babies. As women will now ovulate while already pregnant. and sex will result in new fetuses forming on top of the old fetuses. causing a horrible mess inside the woman. As well as miscarriages if they don't get double pregnant when the period starts after a failed ovulation.

2. Why even bother making a virus that makes hormonal birth control ineffective when they literally control all the worlds govts? Just literally order the FDA and all its equivalents to ban hormonal birth control. And shut down the factories that make it.
Critiquing obvious porn movie logic is like pondering how so many stepsisters manage to get stuck ass up. Though consider the governments the aliens control are mostly so incompetent the aliens decided to kill them and start over. Do you really think using their hypertech to properly engineer a virus to do what they want is harder than planetary scale governance reform?

In any case, the book makes very clear that the aliens are the equivalent of Somali pirates. Conquering Earth was already super illegal under interstellar law, it's just no real navy was likely to show up to enforce that law. The MC wins by what is essentially equivalent to bribing a Senator in an appropriate committee to divert single destroyer to patrol in the area.
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
Isn't Flint clever for making non-homosexuals the perverts? And the main villains so evil the MC needs to allow humans their technology, are an alien empire ruled by neuters that forces all their breeders and males to do nothing but reproduce.
I think you should consider the past form of the verb since he died 2 years ago. Eric Flint was a tad bit bonkers but frankly it does sound more rational than Ringo and Kratman (then again it is difficult to be LESS rational than an older model warhound like Z).
 

ATP

Well-known member
I generally assume people aren’t idiots. In alien invasion stories the writers should put themselves in the place of the alien invaders and what you would do if you were an alien invader or a foreign occupier. I know if I was an alien with advanced technology I could conquer earth and I’m not some genius only the dumbest of the dumb couldn’t.
Indeed.Even Adolf the Idiot would conqer world with their technology.

If aliens with technology which allow them to cross among stars come here,they win,no matter how stupid they could be.
Unless aut bacteria kill them.
Or mutinous american teenager with his girlfriend save Earth thanks to herculean strenghth of their Will.
persecuted japaneese boy would do,too.
 
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Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
If military sci-fi is that hard to come by, I might need to focus more attention on trying to fill that niche. It's somewhat natural for me, after all.

Probably still couldn't get conventionally published, unfortunately; that industry is largely committing ritual suicide.
There is a ton of really good military Sci fi out there.

If you're into that sort of thing, I have a few suggestions for you.

The Lost Fleet and spinoff series: nearly 20 books, maybe up to 20 by now. Follows a fleet around with big relativistic battles. Written by a military leader, contains lots of really good lessons on leadership.

Wayward Galaxy: futuristic space rangers (army rangers) stranded on hostile planet. Lots of focus on battles, usually person to person battles, not space battles. Some good humor. Like six books.

Galaxy's Edge: not a star wars reference. Pretty good long series.

Expeditionary Force: nearly 20 books if you count spin-offs. This is my favorite series, and I HIGHLY recommend this one on audio, as the narration really brings this series to life. Think, modern day humans get hold of lots of advanced alien tech and go out into the universe that is full of alien threats. A lot of silly dialog. A lot of dialog in general, and a lot of comedy. But I love the characters. It can get kind of repetitive, but I love it.

Planetside series: three books when I read it. Probably a few more now.

These are the ones that came to mind first. I thoroughly enjoyed all these series.
 
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Ixian

Well-known member
Speaking of scifi authors spamming their personal bugbears and perhaps more on topic, you might know the late Eric Flint is leftist, but you might not know how leftist until you read his earlier book Mother of Demons.

A human colony starship crashes on an alien planet with an indigenous civilization roughly at Roman Empire level of development. The Starship is stated to be the first and the last ever, as advanced civilization on Earth was about to collapse from climate change. This has become a surprisingly common backstory in leftist scifi, for instance it's part of the backstory of the Beyond Earth video game, the supposed SMAC successor. Yes, it's completely ridiculous that a civilization with the energy budget for STL interstellar flight has a problem maintaining civilization against climate change.

Every adult onboard the ship dies immediately or shortly thereafter from malnutrition. Only a single adult and the children survive to the point of figuring out how to consume the native life, with the adult effectively becoming mother to all of them. She hides away the ship's surviving technology, including fully operational computers and databases so the children will grow up stone age tribals, explicitly so they could not develop beyond the indigenous species and perhaps colonize them in the future. The last third of the book is various characters, both human and alien praying to her like a god to release just enough knowledge to defeat a powerful enemy to progressive sensibilities. No one questions her right to deny the children their heritage or that of mankind, or her right to make the ultimate decision, everyone only wanted to persuade her. I get the feeling that character is the ultimate progressive self-insert.

Now, what's this offense to progressive sensibilities that she needs to defeat with her gift of knowledge? The alien species are a bunch of landsquids. There are breeder females, very few in number and enormous; neuter females, making up the vast majority and doing all the general work; and males, physically tiny and relatively few forming small harems for each breeder. Obviously the breeder females mate with males and produce all the children, while the neuters pairbond amongst each other. The main alien character is a neuter female, exiled for being a pervert by pairbonding with a male. Isn't Flint clever for making non-homosexuals the perverts? And the main villains so evil the MC needs to allow humans their technology, are an alien empire ruled by neuters that forces all their breeders and males to do nothing but reproduce.


Critiquing obvious porn movie logic is like pondering how so many stepsisters manage to get stuck ass up. Though consider the governments the aliens control are mostly so incompetent the aliens decided to kill them and start over. Do you really think using their hypertech to properly engineer a virus to do what they want is harder than planetary scale governance reform?

In any case, the book makes very clear that the aliens are the equivalent of Somali pirates. Conquering Earth was already super illegal under interstellar law, it's just no real navy was likely to show up to enforce that law. The MC wins by what is essentially equivalent to bribing a Senator in an appropriate committee to divert single destroyer to patrol in the area.

Bribery with maple syrup if i remember correctly, that MC owned the entire industry of thanks to his discovery of its mildly narcotic effects on the aliens from Space! America.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
Bribery with maple syrup if i remember correctly, that MC owned the entire industry of thanks to his discovery of its mildly narcotic effects on the aliens from Space! America.
that is stupid. the maple cartel will never allow some outsider to just take over just because he discovered a new market for it.

the cartel is a govt sanctioned monopoly, and it is illegal to produce more maple syrup than it allows you. the allotment varies by both seniority and standard political shenanigans.

 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
that is stupid. the maple cartel will never allow some outsider to just take over just because he discovered a new market for it.

the cartel is a govt sanctioned monopoly, and it is illegal to produce more maple syrup than it allows you. the allotment varies by both seniority and standard political shenanigans.

Yeah, product monopolies, from avocados to oil to maple syrup, are very protective and stringent.

Hell, even the fucking cartel-affiliated ones (especially avocados) are the same with regulations and such.

The MC in that story would likely find himself buried in a barrel of syrup somewhere.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
Yeah, product monopolies, from avocados to oil to maple syrup, are very protective and stringent.

Hell, even the fucking cartel-affiliated ones (especially avocados) are the same with regulations and such.

The MC in that story would likely find himself buried in a barrel of syrup somewhere.
To expand on it. The process the MC would have to go through is

Step 1. sell maple in absolute secrecy while
A. gaslighting the xenos into never ever visiting a grocery store on earth and finding out that you can just buy that shit at the store and an existing supply chain exists.
B. stop the maple cartel from finding out the xenos really want their maple. (while also supplying them with the maple)

Step 2. use said xenos to topple the canadian govt and install him as dictator of canada. Doing so before anyone else reaches out to the xenos with an offer of selling them maple.

Step 3. use canadian govt involvement with the maple cartel to seize it for himself. All the while avoiding assassinations by said cartel.

... I guess an alternative to that is that he could move FAST and on day 1 before the info has time to spread he approaches a xeno in the ruling class with the suggestion of the xeno being in charge (and taking most of the profits) while the MC being the underling in canada handling production and ensuring basically all the maple goes out xeno mafia guy and nobody else. Cutting off the supply of maple worldwide to any humans. so pretty please set me up as a petty dictator of canada instead of installing your own guy.

It might maybe possibly work. but will see him as getting a small pittance, with a focus on being ruler of canada rather than maple. price fixing it so the maple producers suffer while the xeno partner makes more money. Making the humans hate him, and opening himself up to be replaced by a political rival of that xeno (since they are xeno somalia)
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
To expand on it. The process the MC would have to go through is

Step 1. sell maple in absolute secrecy while
A. gaslighting the xenos into never ever visiting a grocery store on earth and finding out that you can just buy that shit at the store and an existing supply chain exists.
B. stop the maple cartel from finding out the xenos really want their maple. (while also supplying them with the maple)

Step 2. use said xenos to topple the canadian govt and install him as dictator of canada. Doing so before anyone else reaches out to the xenos with an offer of selling them maple.

Step 3. use canadian govt involvement with the maple cartel to seize it for himself. All the while avoiding assassinations by said cartel.

... I guess an alternative to that is that he could move FAST and on day 1 before the info has time to spread he approaches a xeno in the ruling class with the suggestion of the xeno being in charge (and taking most of the profits) while the MC being the underling in canada handling production and ensuring basically all the maple goes out xeno mafia guy and nobody else. Cutting off the supply of maple worldwide to any humans. so pretty please set me up as a petty dictator of canada instead of installing your own guy.

It might maybe possibly work. but will see him as getting a small pittance, with a focus on being ruler of canada rather than maple. price fixing it so the maple producers suffer while the xeno partner makes more money. Making the humans hate him, and opening himself up to be replaced by a political rival of that xeno (since they are xeno somalia)
Sounds a bit like Doctor Breen from Half-Life and the Combine. Well, except the Combine are more like an interdimensional, world-invading cancer that just can't stop growing than Space!Somalia, but still...
 

mrttao

Well-known member
... I guess an alternative to that is that he could move FAST and on day 1 before the info has time to spread he approaches a xeno in the ruling class with the suggestion of the xeno being in charge (and taking most of the profits) while the MC being the underling in canada handling production and ensuring basically all the maple goes out xeno mafia guy and nobody else. Cutting off the supply of maple worldwide to any humans. so pretty please set me up as a petty dictator of canada instead of installing your own guy.

It might maybe possibly work. but will see him as getting a small pittance, with a focus on being ruler of canada rather than maple. price fixing it so the maple producers suffer while the xeno partner makes more money. Making the humans hate him, and opening himself up to be replaced by a political rival of that xeno (since they are xeno somalia)
This plan btw is based on the multiple times USA has toppled a democracy to replace it with a dictator and then have the dictator sign a sweetheart with american resource companies that completely rapes his country and people.
With the vast majority of the profits going to the american oligarchs who own said companies.
The life expectancy of those dictators is... pretty damn grim.

He faces the additional problem that maple is not mined from the ground. It is produced by farmers. So just giving over the land to a Space-Somalia corporation and letting them handle everything won't exactly work. due to their incompetence.
 
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LordsFire

Internet Wizard
This plan btw is based on the multiple times USA has toppled a democracy to replace it with a dictator and then have the dictator sign a sweetheart with american oil companies that completely rapes his country and people.
With the vast majority of the profits going to the american oil company.
The life expectancy of those is... pretty damn grim.
...I have heard this canard from many liberals, but I have never heard any evidence actually backing it up.

Do you have any evidence? I'm willing to not reject it out of hand, coming from you rather than some liberal NPC.
 

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