Five minutes of hate news

[mrttao]

...I have heard this canard from many liberals, but I have never heard any evidence actually backing it up.

Do you have any evidence? I'm willing to not reject it out of hand, coming from you rather than some liberal NPC.

Wait, you mean this is contested?
I thought it was well agreed by all sides that the CIA loves toppling governments

With the liberals insisting they only topple foreign governments which makes america evil.
While conservatives say they also topple domestic governments, which makes them the deep state who rules over us undemocratically.

With the first major example being operation PBSuccess aka the guatemala coup of 1954, at the behest of the united fruit company.

Now I feel like I haven't done enough due diligence research on it. derp.
I can easily find a ton of sources. but they are all official narrative types.

 

[LordsFire]

Wait, you mean this is contested?
I thought it was well agreed by all sides that the CIA loves toppling governments

With the liberals insisting they only topple foreign governments which makes america evil.
While conservatives say they also topple domestic governments, which makes them the deep state who rules over us undemocratically.

With the first major example being operation PBSuccess aka the guatemala coup of 1954, at the behest of the united fruit company.

Now I feel like I haven't done enough due diligence research on it. derp.
I can easily find a ton of sources. but they are all official narrative types.

Oil.

You said oil, specifically in the context of letting American corporations basically loot the local natural resources with basically no meaningful amount of money going to the locals.

That's the one I keep hearing from leftists, and never a whit of evidence for.

 

[TheRejectionist]

...I have heard this canard from many liberals, but I have never heard any evidence actually backing it up.

Do you have any evidence? I'm willing to not reject it out of hand, coming from you rather than some liberal NPC.

While not expressively about oil, one of the most recent ones is Yemen.



Guatemala in 1954 saw Dulles convince and lobbying to overthrow the local president Arbenz because this guy didn't want his fellow Guatemalans to be US companies' serfs and the same companies owning the land of the country more than the locals.

The US also tried to install Carmona 20 years ago in Venezuela. This is article talks about it, it was wrote by a very pro-Western intervention journo. Said intervention also allowed the Commie Chavez to tighten censorship.

Venezuela coup linked to Bush team

There's also plenty of other examples, but being half Latino this is the best ones right now.

 

[mrttao]

Oil.

You said oil, specifically in the context of letting American corporations basically loot the local natural resources with basically no meaningful amount of money going to the locals.

That's the one I keep hearing from leftists, and never a whit of evidence for.

Huh. I did say oil. that was a slip up, I should have said resources.

And the liberal calling was "no more wars for oil" not "no more CIA for oil".
The liberals argued that the wars in iraq and afghanistan were due to americans wanting to loot their oil and had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11.
I mean, the USA obviously seized the oil wells while there, but that wasn't the motivation. I was talking about CIA coups specifically and not wars.

As for a CIA oil coup... IIRC was one coup. I don't remember the exact country name. But my vague recollection is that the director of the CIA at the time had a close family relationship to an american oil company so he did a coup just for them. I am looking into it now to see if I can find who it was and what the deal with that was

 

[LordsFire]

I mean, the USA obviously seized the oil wells while there, but that wasn't the motivation. I was talking about CIA coups specifically and not wars.

Again, this.

Last I checked, the oil wells in Iraq were not owned by US companies after the 2003 conflict ended, though I think some US talent was brought in to get them back in proper functional order.

I could be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge, it's just another one of those things the leftist politicians and media repeated ad nauseum until people treated it like fact, in spite of being anything but.

 

[mrttao]

Again, this.

Last I checked, the oil wells in Iraq were not owned by US companies after the 2003 conflict ended, though I think some US talent was brought in to get them back in proper functional order.

I could be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge, it's just another one of those things the leftist politicians and media repeated ad nauseum until people treated it like fact, in spite of being anything but.

Well, thanks for correcting me.
I guess I got gaslighted on the subject by MSM.

Part of the insidiousness of pervasive all encompassing gaslighting is that even if you catch and block much of it, some of it will still trickle in as your filters miss it.

Any idea on who owns those then? and how the money is distributed?
I did a quick search and everything I found indicates USA Corporations being involved throughout and up to today. I couldn't find any sources saying otherwise.

 

[Ixian]

The US doesn't topple governments for oil, just occasionally for bananas.

 

[LordsFire]

Well, thanks for correcting me.
I guess I got gaslighted on the subject by MSM.

Part of the insidiousness of pervasive all encompassing gaslighting is that even if you catch and block much of it, some of it will still trickle in as your filters miss it.

Any idea on who owns those then? and how the money is distributed?
I did a quick search and everything I found indicates USA Corporations being involved throughout and up to today. I couldn't find any sources saying otherwise.

Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, etc, are all monarchies.

The oil wells are owned by the rulers directly. There's a reason they're filthy rich, and that they're memetically famous for all their ostentatious displays of wealth.

How much of that trickles down to the 'common man?'

Well, they're monarchies. Depends on how good or bad of a ruler the Sheikh(King) of the day is.

 

[mrttao]

Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, etc, are all monarchies.

The oil wells are owned by the rulers directly. There's a reason they're filthy rich, and that they're memetically famous for all their ostentatious displays of wealth.

How much of that trickles down to the 'common man?'

Well, they're monarchies. Depends on how good or bad of a ruler the Sheikh(King) of the day is.

What do any of those 4 countries have to do with Iraq?

MSM alleges in 2023 that Iraq got its best oil deal to date.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/iraqs-massive-total-oil-deal-heralds-new-revenue-sharing-formula-2023-07-19/

With the govt getting a 25% cut of the oil extracted.

unlike the 2009 agreement where. foreign corporations take the oil and pay them $1.40 per barrel

according to

Oil prices

The price of crude oil, from which oil products such as gasoline are derived, is influenced by a number of factors beyond the traditional movements of supply and demand, notably geopolitics. Some of the lowest cost reserves are located in sensitive...

www.oecd-ilibrary.org

in 2008 USA was paying $94.97 per barrel
in 2009 USA was paying $58.83 per barrel
(price varied by country)

according to

Brent crude oil prices averaged $19 per barrel less in 2023 than 2022 - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

2022 oil per barrel was $101
2023 oil per barrel was $83

Thus switching from a flat $1.4 per barrel to a 25% cut will raise the amount to somewhere between $20 and $25 per barrel.
a massive increase.
And it is still mostly being looted.

 

[LordsFire]

What do any of those 4 countries have to do with Iraq?

MSM alleges in 2023 that Iraq got its best oil deal to date.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/iraqs-massive-total-oil-deal-heralds-new-revenue-sharing-formula-2023-07-19/

With the govt getting a 25% cut of the oil extracted.

unlike the 2009 agreement where. foreign corporations take the oil and pay them $1.40 per barrel

according to

Oil prices

The price of crude oil, from which oil products such as gasoline are derived, is influenced by a number of factors beyond the traditional movements of supply and demand, notably geopolitics. Some of the lowest cost reserves are located in sensitive...

www.oecd-ilibrary.org

in 2008 USA was paying $94.97 per barrel
in 2009 USA was paying $58.83 per barrel
(price varied by country)

according to

Brent crude oil prices averaged $19 per barrel less in 2023 than 2022 - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

2022 oil per barrel was $101
2023 oil per barrel was $83

Thus switching from a flat $1.4 per barrel to a 25% cut will raise the amount to somewhere between $20 and $25 per barrel.
a massive increase.
And it is still mostly being looted.

From your own article:

"In the end, Total took a 45% share while the state-owned Basra Oil Company took 30% and QatarEnergy 25%."

That's ownership. So there's a 25% cut of profits directly to the state, on top of the state owning 30% of the joint venture, which translates to a little under 40% total profits going to the state.

'TotalEnergy' is a French energy company, not an American one. On top of that, it looks like this is also a case of 'the western company is providing the money to build everything, and the talent to run it.'

That's not 'looting.'

'Looting' would be 'our army came in, forced you out, and now we are taking the oil and all the profits for ourselves.' 'All but a pittance' would reasonably fit under the definition too, I suppose.

'We do a large, possibly majority share of the work, and you get just under 40% of the profits' is something very different.

 

[mrttao]

From your own article:

"In the end, Total took a 45% share while the state-owned Basra Oil Company took 30% and QatarEnergy 25%."

That's ownership. So there's a 25% cut of profits directly to the state, on top of the state owning 30% of the joint venture, which translates to a little under 40% total profits going to the state.

'TotalEnergy' is a French energy company, not an American one. On top of that, it looks like this is also a case of 'the western company is providing the money to build everything, and the talent to run it.'

That's not 'looting.'

'Looting' would be 'our army came in, forced you out, and now we are taking the oil and all the profits for ourselves.' 'All but a pittance' would reasonably fit under the definition too, I suppose.

'We do a large, possibly majority share of the work, and you get just under 40% of the profits' is something very different.

1. it is not "my own article". It is a shitty MSM piece.
MSM being the only sources I can find for numbers
And as I asked, do you have alternative numbers, because I don't.

2. Please reread. You completely misread my post.
You are discussing the profit split starting from 2023.
Which is when Iraq dropped USA oil companies and partnered with france.

The looting period was from 2009 to 2023? (not sure if exactly 2023. maybe a few years prior)
During that period of time Iraq puppet govt signed a horrible deal with American oil companies where it got $1.4 a barrel.

This pittance is <2% of the profit in 2008, it is <2% in 2023 too.
in 2009 it was <3% of the profit as the value of oil dipped a bit.
14 years of between 1% to 3% of the value of oil being paid to the country that owns it is absolutely looting.

And the fact the USA govt was not getting the loot does not make it "not looting", it makes it worse.
It shows what a corrupt banana republic the USA is that such looting happens by private groups.
USA govt agents have arranged to fuck over both Iraqi AND USA citizens.

The left retarded rallying cry was "no wars for oil".
where it should have been "don't let corrupt oligarchs steal everything and fuck us over".

The war already happened, and it was not for oil.
The looting where 98% of the profit was taken away by shell, exonmobile, etc should not have been allowed to stand.
It should have been split up between USA govt and Iraq govt.

 

[mrttao]

"In the end, Total took a 45% share while the state-owned Basra Oil Company took 30% and QatarEnergy 25%."

That's ownership. So there's a 25% cut of profits directly to the state, on top of the state owning 30% of the joint venture, which translates to a little under 40% total profits going to the state.

Thanks for the correction. I appreciate it.

... wait, hang on a moment.
I looked over it again...

It is not 30%+25% = 55% to Iraq

It is actually:
Iraq 30% ownership
France 45% ownership
Qatar 25% ownership
That adds up to 100%

And according to Iraqi officials the revenue will be split according to % ownership.

Thus Iraq is getting 30% of the revenue.
Which, the article then goes on to say that once you account for expenses that 30% gross revenue becomes 25% of the net profit

To be honest, it is a pretty weak deal to get 30% of gross revenue
Just... a massive improvement over the 1.3% of revenue they were getting in 2023
It is a 23x increase in their income.

 

[mrttao]

This BTW truly exemplifies the saying "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

Back in the day the screeching retarded liberals came at me screaming
> MURDERER, YOU VOTE FOR MURDERING INNOCENTS FOR OIL.

Knowing that I am not a murderer, and that the USA govt was not getting the money. I dismissed them as screeching retards.

Had they instead gone
> "hey there friend. did you know some corrupt officials are screwing you over? they are stealing 98% of the sale price of iraqi oil to line their own pockets. neither the USA govt nor Iraqi govt gets that money"

I would have been far more inclined to dig into it.
Now I feel kinda bad for missing it.

 

[LordsFire]

The looting period was from 2009 to 2023? (not sure if exactly 2023. maybe a few years prior)
During that period of time Iraq puppet govt signed a horrible deal with American oil companies where it got $1.4 a barrel.

This is not complete information. Is that the 'the government tax' mixed with joint ownership like the new arrangement? Is that all they got?

I'm going to need better information before I'm going to accept that kind of depiction.

It is not 30%+25% = 55% to Iraq

It is actually:
Iraq 30% ownership
France 45% ownership
Qatar 25% ownership
That adds up to 100%

And according to Iraqi officials the revenue will be split according to % ownership.

Thus Iraq is getting 30% of the revenue.
Which, the article then goes on to say that once you account for expenses that 30% gross revenue becomes 25% of the net profit

To be honest, it is a pretty weak deal to get 30% of gross revenue
Just... a massive improvement over the 1.3% of revenue they were getting in 2023
It is a 23x increase in their income.

No.

It's 'you're paying the government 25% of your profits as a tax,' and then the government also owns 30% of the company, so gets 30% of the profits in that way. Which means that they are functionally getting a 25% tax on the remaining 70% of the profits they don't already own.

A quarter of 70% is 17.5%, so that'd actually work out closer to 50% than 40%; I guess I was rounding things too conservatively earlier.

 

[mrttao]

This is not complete information. Is that the 'the government tax' mixed with joint ownership like the new arrangement? Is that all they got?

supposedly that is all they got for that time period.

No.

It's 'you're paying the government 25% of your profits as a tax,' and then the government also owns 30% of the company, so gets 30% of the profits in that way. Which means that they are functionally getting a 25% tax on the remaining 70% of the profits they don't already own.

A quarter of 70% is 17.5%, so that'd actually work out closer to 50% than 40%; I guess I was rounding things too conservatively earlier.

you seem to be correct.

 

[Captain X]

 

[LordsFire]

supposedly that is all they got for that time period.

I strongly suspect that things were more along the lines of '30% ownership in the venture for the government, with the tiny flat tax on top of it.'

I'm open to being proven wrong, but I've literally never seen any evidence that it's money made almost exclusively by western companies, much less American ones in particular.

My perceptions may have been shaped overly-much by what I saw growing up in the UAE, and the national oil company there, but I suspect it's closer to what happened in Iraq than what the leftists like to claim.

 

[DarthOne]

 

[TheRejectionist]

 

[TheRejectionist]

Assume that they are saying the contrary of reality.