Five minutes of hate news

[Skallagrim]

No, the thing is, per the Constitution, the government cannot play favorites, so they are stuck either acknowledging everything, or nothing, basically. The reason these atheists are doing the trolling is because certain Christians feel the need to do these public prayers to begin with. If they could just not do prayers as part of official business, this wouldn't be an issue - there would be no prayers to satan or Beyonce, or anyone else, but since some of you are butthurt about not being able to pray to your deity of choice as part of official business, they're allowed to do the same. Which in my view is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Compare:

"Hey, right-winger! You want free speech? I'm allowed to stand outside your house 24/7 with a megaphone shouting that your wife is a whore, and heckle your children as they walk to school! That's free speech, too! Ha ha ha!"

There is reasonable application, and there is abuse that becomes a violation. And your argument here is pretty much equivalent to "if you don't want hecklers harrassing your family forever, you should just never say 'bigoted' things the lefties hate again".

You shouldn't allow trolls to hijack society.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Satanism is unfathomably cringe anyway.

 

[Vyor]

Compare:

"Hey, right-winger! You want free speech? I'm allowed to stand outside your house 24/7 with a megaphone shouting that your wife is a whore, and heckle your children as they walk to school! That's free speech, too! Ha ha ha!"

There is reasonable application, and there is abuse that becomes a violation. And your argument here is pretty much equivalent to "if you don't want hecklers harrassing your family forever, you should just never say 'bigoted' things the lefties hate again".

You shouldn't allow trolls to hijack society.

I wasn't aware that a public area inside a government building was... outside of your house.

 

[Skallagrim]

I wasn't aware that a public area inside a government building was... outside of your house.

I wasn't aware that comparisons must be deliberately misinterpreted to avoid engaging with the point.

But regardless, both the street in front of your house and a municipal building are 'public' space; paid for with tax money and owned by the government.

 

[Vyor]

I wasn't aware that comparisons must be deliberately misinterpreted to avoid engaging with the point.

But regardless, both the street in front of your house and a municipal building are 'public' space; paid for with tax money and owned by the government.

Yes, now, shall I grab the text of the first amendment?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Harassment of a specific person would not be peaceable... but yes, using a megaphone to protest a specific person IS LEGAL.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[Zachowon]

Not particularly. Seems like that would bother a lot of people and be against various rules.

If it was a majority Muslim city and they voted for it, then fair enough I suppose.

That's the thing.
It's allowed by the Constitution

 

[Bigking321]

That's the thing.
It's allowed by the Constitution

You asked if I was in favor of it. I said not really.

I'm not sure what your point is? I can be opposed to something even if it's currently legal.

 

[Skallagrim]

Yes, now, shall I grab the text of the first amendment?


Harassment of a specific person would not be peaceable... but yes, using a megaphone to protest a specific person IS LEGAL.

Go fuck yourself.

You are still not engaging with the argument, and your closing line demonstrates that you don't intend to.

Have a nice day.

 

[LordsFire]

No, the thing is, per the Constitution, the government cannot play favorites, so they are stuck either acknowledging everything, or nothing, basically. The reason these atheists are doing the trolling is because certain Christians feel the need to do these public prayers to begin with. If they could just not do prayers as part of official business, this wouldn't be an issue - there would be no prayers to satan or Beyonce, or anyone else, but since some of you are butthurt about not being able to pray to your deity of choice as part of official business, they're allowed to do the same. Which in my view is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You might have some kind of point, if it weren't for how the government, once its offices and institutions fall into 'secular' hands, inevitably and always persecutes Christians, and favors literally any other religious group.

Muslims, satanists, pagans, whatever.

They'll kick out Christian cultural symbology (like the 10 commandments on a plaque in a courthouse), forbid Christian faculty or students from praying in schools, but then set up prayer rooms for muslim students, invite pagan 'priestesses,' or their particular favorite, bring in 'clergy' from completely depraved and sold-out denominations like Episcopalians who are just degenerate leftists wearing a 'christian' skinsuit.

Secularists have tried to pretend for decades that they're just trying to get things to a 'neutral' posture, but that posture is anything but neutral. It's just blatantly anti-Christian.

Just look at what's become of the UK.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

The more i think about it, there would be nothing anti-constitutional if we target a religion that specifically goes against the principles of our constitution.

It would simply be defending the Constitution.

 

[Vyor]

The more i think about it, there would be nothing anti-constitutional if we target a religion that specifically goes against the principles of our constitution.

It would simply be defending the Constitution.

Yes, now... what about the current crop of false satanists does that?

 

[Rocinante]

Democrat Rep. Jasmine Crockett says we need illegals to pick the crops so that "your kids can go to college"

My friend said "this is basically the modern day equivalent of the house n*gger trying to keep the field n*gger down"

Which, aside from the racial slurs, was pretty funny considering it appears to be somewhat accurate.

 

[Captain X]

Yes. That's the loophole they are abusing. Make up a super offensive religion and shove it in people's faces for the explicit goal of offending people.

Which I honestly don't care about.

Utter rubbish. They do it because they want religion completely removed from any public spaces. So they want to be as annoying and offensive as possible until the public gets annoyed enough to ban everything just to stop them.

Some of them probably want that, but the fact is that it only really needs to be removed from government. Insisting on doing a prayer during official government meetings and displaying the nativity scene for Christmas on government property is the reason they are even able to troll, though. You and others keep missing this point, or frankly are just ignoring it. All you have to do is not do that stuff and you take away that loophole. After that point they can complain all they want, but the same Amendment that says the government can't play favorites also says they can't prohibit the free exercise of religion, and if you go with the "nothing" option in the "all or nothing" decision, that means they can't do their stupid shit in official meetings or on government grounds.

It's not in response to anything. Just edgy atheists larping as a offensive religion and thinking they are very clever by abusing the freedom of religion.

It's in response to the government playing favorites even though it isn't supposed to. I happen to agree with them on that aspect, even if I think the satanist stuff is just childish and I have no respect for it. Of course I also lack respect for the insistence on stuff like prayers in council meetings and nativity scenes on capitol grounds that is behind the edgelord response to it. Again, all you have to do is not do that shit and you take that away from them.

 

[Captain X]

Compare:

"Hey, right-winger! You want free speech? I'm allowed to stand outside your house 24/7 with a megaphone shouting that your wife is a whore, and heckle your children as they walk to school! That's free speech, too! Ha ha ha!"

There is reasonable application, and there is abuse that becomes a violation. And your argument here is pretty much equivalent to "if you don't want hecklers harrassing your family forever, you should just never say 'bigoted' things the lefties hate again".

You shouldn't allow trolls to hijack society.

And this is a complete misrepresentation of the matter at hand. I'm disappointed that you, of all people, would conflate leading a city council in prayer in an official meeting with what you just did.

 

[Skallagrim]

And this is a complete misrepresentation of the matter at hand. I'm disappointed that you, of all people, would conflate leading a city council in prayer in an official meeting with what you just did.

Conversely, my view of this is that you are eminently reasonable, but become less so when the topic is religion. You apply different rules there-- and that can be a matter of a deeply felt personal position, but it's still not a view with which I can agree.

Mind you, if Jews or Buddhists or Hindus or Sikhs wanted a prayed of their religion in communities where they are a clear majority, that's not an issue. The thesis here isn't "Christendom über Alles", which (I think) is what you tend to see whenever the topic comes up.

The problem here is that deliberate trolls who don't even believe in their purported "religion" use the façade of religion to bully everyone into doing what they want. And that is the exact tactic lefty trolls use. In fact... it's the same group of people, essentially.

And that's why I'm quite disappointed, in my turn, that you go along with it so readily. Same for @Vyor. You both miss the point. This isn't a freedom of religion thing. This is a fake-religion-used-as-a-weapon thing. As long as you ignore that, the trolls have a weapon to always force their way. It's "bake the cake, bigot!!!" all over again.

 

[Vyor]

And that's why I'm quite disappointed, in my turn, that you go along with it so readily. Same for @Vyor. You both miss the point. This isn't a freedom of religion thing. This is a fake-religion-used-as-a-weapon thing. As long as you ignore that, the trolls have a weapon to always force their way. It's "bake the cake, bigot!!!" all over again.

It literally isn't and can't be that.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Yeah I'm with Skallagrim on this one. Using a fake weaponized religion isn't speech, it's a form of attack like any fourth-generational warfare. Accordingly it has to be squashed or the attacks won't ever cease.

It's no less freedom of speech as is aiming a gun at someone while screaming that you're going to shoot them. Until he actually shoots, technically nothing 'that bad' has happened yet. But you gonna take that chance?

 

[Zachowon]

Except you can't say it is a fake religion.
Without proof, snd any proof you use will be used against you

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Yes, now... what about the current crop of false satanists does that?

Not much.

My actuall point with this is actually aimed at Islam. Its basic rules are antithetical to individual freedom.

 

[King Arts]

That's the thing.
It's allowed by the Constitution

No it’s prohibited by YOUR interpretation of the constitution.

We could just interpret it in a new way where we divide beliefs into cults and religions religious beliefs like Christianity Judaism Islam and Buddhism would be protected, while cult beliefs like satanism or Scientology could be banned.

The more i think about it, there would be nothing anti-constitutional if we target a religion that specifically goes against the principles of our constitution.

It would simply be defending the Constitution.

This is a very stupid idea. After all it can be used against Christianity since it’s against freedom.

After all true Christianity is not pro constitution, at best it’s neutral but you can argue it’s against it. Actual Christianity that isn’t some new weird Protestant heresy sees enlightenment beliefs as a compromise of society to have peace in diverse places so we don’t have wars killing each other for our sect. But it’s not a good virtue to support or defend the false religions of others.