Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
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The entirety of the south is known for it,the state changes depending where you are. For example here in Illinois we say it's Kentucky generally speaking.

Never was really sure why the south got stuck with the inbreeding meme when that sort of thing historically was more prevalent in the north

Likely what Zac said but honestly I don't have any idea it is most definitely a thing though
It's not the "South" that got stuck with the Inbreeding meme, it's Appalachia. If you look at most of the "where the inbreds are" memes in each southern state, they point to towards their nearest neighbor that has large parts in Appalachia. As all of you demonstrated and I can add that in Virginia it's West Virginia where the inbreds are.

The reason for this is actually due to a much older ethnic divide, one that predates the founding of the US. Go ask the English where the inbred are and, depending on where in the island it is, they'll likely say Scotland, Wales, or Ireland. You see, the lowland South was primarily settled by the English and in the very old Southern states, often second and third sons of English nobility and the well to do. Meanwhile Appalachia was primarily settled by the Scotts-Irish, people of primarily Protestant Irish and Scottish stock. In fact, the Highlands of Scotland and Appalachia are actually both fragments of a very, VERY ancient mountain chain, thus share a lot of similarities that drew those settlers to those regions as feeling "homely".

Anyway, to say there was bad blood between the English and the Scotts-Irish is... severely underselling things, and much of those attitudes were imported to the New World. The English, being the more cosmopolitan, often would project their worst impulses (things like Incest to preserve bloodlines, etc.) onto the "outsiders" to dehumanize them. Thus, for the English blooded settlers, the Scotts-Irish were said "others" and thus those memes got attached to them.

It didn't help that the dominate economic system of the general South, that of plantation slavery, was completely ineffectual in Appalachia (the land wasn't suited to it, being mountainous and rocky, no big plantations there*). Combine this with the general distaste for things like slavery and serfdom among the Scotts-Irish led to there being a massive economic and attitude divide regarding slavery in the Appalachia vs the General South. Along the Eastern US, many of the Underground Railroad routes that smuggled slaves to freedom moved through Appalachia due to this attitudinal difference.

Basically, Appalachia, while in the South, wasn't considered "southern" by most Southerners and was continually othered by them. Even in the US Civil War, many of the Union units that came from the South came from Appalachian counties of said Southern States, and of course you have the origin of West Virginia there where they were counties of Virginia that refused to secede with the rest of the State. This continued even after the war with how the State governments treated Appalachia as a place to colonize and extract resources from, often enabling the stealing of land from locals by corporations or enabling corporate misconduct in those regions. This was, of course, made more palpable to the general public by dehumanizing people in Appalachia via tropes like them being "inbred hillbillies" who didn't deserve that land and didn't know what to do with it, even though many of those families had been living in those mountains for generations.


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* The one exception to this in formal Appalachia was the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, which did have good land for plantations and thus saw more slavery than the rest of Appalachia.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
The core story of 2 is the enclave being stupid cartoon supervillains that want to kill everyone else in the entire world because the enclave decided they're the only real humans left, an ideology they adopted based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever and in spite of the fact it would make their attempts to rebuild postwar substantially harder. Fallout lost the plot and started doing nonsensical crap from the first sequel, and it wasn't until 3, warts and all, that the main series got a plot involving the enclave that wasn't retarded (save for all the worst aspects of 3's plot, all of which were direct carryovers from 2).
The plot of FO2 was literally "things the devs found cool", right down to the opening cutscene being the Enclave gunning down rando Vault Dwellers for no reason. The tone was terrible too, with this dark plot centred on racism and genocide ... having as its main villains a parody of both Nixon and Bill Clinton at once, a heavy who's basically just a dumb thug (and a Clint Eastwood movie reference) whose dialogue is variations of "I'm gonna kill you now", and a mad scientist who rambles on about brahmins. The first and last you only meet in one conversation each at the very end of the game and are basically never mentioned before that.

Remember, it was rushed out in one year after FO1. That's no way to produce the masterpiece some say FO2 is. What's even more hilarious is that Interplay's vision for FO3 was literally to redo FO2 BUT IN SPACE with a villain who wants to unleash a bioweapon to cleanse the world of humanity AGAIN for even more unclear reasons.
Actually the bad thing is that he wants to use Purity to create his own hydraulic empire, though in retrospect I am pretty sure the BOS turned into that anyways... so all you do is just buy a few good years.
According to Creation Club, they did ... and then collapsed within ten years, so things in the Capital Wasteland are LITERALLY THE SAME.
It seems like the Enclave's problem is more their elite caste than anything else. You know the *actual* Enclave and not the hired help they brought with them. I wouldn't also be suprised if not all of the actual Enclave were 100% on board with gassing everyone to death. I woudn't be surprised if the reason is that Autumn and Autumn the Elder were actually loyal opposition on the issue.
The Enclave military is always portrayed more sympathetically than the politicians. FNV suggests that the rank-and-file were sold propaganda about "restoring order". Honestly they should just launch a coup, then they might actually make progress in rebuilding America given that their politicians are too focussed on inane supervillain schemes to do anything useful ... *points to sig*.

Given what happened in Tactics, and then in the Bethesda era, it makes you wonder if the BoS were purging their own internal dissenters by sending them off to get killed or to fuck off somewhere else?
FNV suggests that this is canon and is the reason for the proliferation of Brotherhood Chapters who diverge from mainline Lost Hills BOS dogma.
 
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Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
I...don't really get the criticism you're making here. Fallout has a very generic post nuclear apocalypse feel to it, even from 1 and 2. Oh, wow, the pre-war government has returned to reclaim their previous territory but now they're evil, what a super original plot that's in no way a genre cliché.

As for the "Bethesda Fallout" aesthetics.....I don't see why that's a problem in terms of the show's quality. The Halo show was generally pretty good at fitting the aesthetics of the Halo games. Still sucked.


KcZPEa7.jpeg
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
The Enclave military is always portrayed more sympathetically than the politicians. FNV suggests that the rank-and-file were sold propaganda about "restoring order". Honestly they should just launch a coup, then they might actually make progress in rebuilding America given that their politicians are too focussed on inane supervillain schemes to do anything useful ... *points to sig*.
It’s remarkable how in a world of raiders, ghouls, mutants, and Caesar’s Legion, the Enclave is easily still one of the most batshit insane organisation. And it’s a punch up between them and the Institute for who is the worst.
 

ThatZenoGuy

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This. Fallout isn't just 50's raygun aesthetic, there's a bit in there but a lot is obscure cold war prototypes and 'actual' future technology that people of the 50's and 60's were looking into.
I mean christ, the usual handgun round in the franchise is 10mm Auto, an 80's cartridge.
If we look at Bethesda's version of Fallout at face value, it's glorified WW1 tech, with .45 ACP 'rifles' being standard issue.
 

Battlegrinder

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Obozny


Ok, that's still not very helpful. What does it even mean that this meme is complaining that about Megatron's design, and then also whining that it's supposed to have a mad max look, when that's what Megatron has?

I also can't help but notice that many things in the left hand side of the meme are things that have never appeared in a fallout game at all.


This. Fallout isn't just 50's raygun aesthetic, there's a bit in there but a lot is obscure cold war prototypes and 'actual' future technology that people of the 50's and 60's were looking into.

Outside of the G11, what obscure cold war weapons are we missing from later games, or actual 50s and 60s future tech?

I mean christ, the usual handgun round in the franchise is 10mm Auto, an 80's cartridge.
If we look at Bethesda's version of Fallout at face value, it's glorified WW1 tech, with .45 ACP 'rifles' being standard issue.

Um....no? We have no idea what the combat rifle was used for prewar, but it doesn't seem to be a standard issue weapon, since pre-qar soldiers are almost universally depicted with either laser rifles, the 5.56 mm R91 rifle, or the fallout 4 "assault rifle".
 
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Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Ok, that's still not very helpful. What does it even mean that this meme is complaining that about Megatron's design, and then also whining that it's supposed to have a mad max look, when that's what Megatron has?

I also can't help but notice that many things in the left hand side of the meme are things that have never appeared in a fallout game at all.

It was talking about the leather armor, That was the mad max reference also the fact that there should be running cars but that can't be depicted in Bethesda's engine. But I get that some people like Bethesda's art direction, I'm not one of them though it looks too cartoonish and Jetsons. Also for Megaton its because its been 200 years and people are still living like the bombs just exploded.
 

Battlegrinder

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It was talking about the leather armor, That was the mad max reference also the fact that there should be running cars but that can't be depicted in Bethesda's engine. But I get that some people like Bethesda's art direction, I'm not one of them though it looks too cartoonish and Jetsons. Also for Megaton its because its been 200 years and people are still living like the bombs just exploded.

Um...the leather armor in 3 is a near 1:1 copy of the gear Max has in the road warrior (and it's not the only mad mad reference in 3 either). 4 isn't as close (not be default, I'm sure if you mix and match bits of it over the greaser jacket you can get close), but it's not a wild departure from that general style either.

I grant that Bethesda has a few clear Ls in their art design, and hopefully they'll improve in 5...but I think they should also get some credit for have a clear art style. Combat armor is probably the easy example, prior to 4 fallout's combat armor was painfully generic, you have slapped that into anything from a modern day shooter to Halo and it would have fit in, 4 took the time to try and make something that looked like it was from a 50s inspired setting. Did they nail the look? No, the heavy armor set it a bit absurd looking, needs some work. But it's a lot better than the prior design IMO.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Um...the leather armor in 3 is a near 1:1 copy of the gear Max has in the road warrior (and it's not the only mad mad reference in 3 either). 4 isn't as close (not be default, I'm sure if you mix and match bits of it over the greaser jacket you can get close), but it's not a wild departure from that general style either.

I grant that Bethesda has a few clear Ls in their art design, and hopefully they'll improve in 5...but I think they should also get some credit for have a clear art style. Combat armor is probably the easy example, prior to 4 fallout's combat armor was painfully generic, you have slapped that into anything from a modern day shooter to Halo and it would have fit in, 4 took the time to try and make something that looked like it was from a 50s inspired setting. Did they nail the look? No, the heavy armor set it a bit absurd looking, needs some work. But it's a lot better than the prior design IMO.

The new combat armor literally looks like a fat version of marine armor in Halo Combat Evolved. The prior design looked more like something the colonial marines or Imperial guard Flak armor which is sort of a less common aesthetic nowadays. We are clearly never going to agree on this and have different tastes in aesthetics.
 

Husky_Khan

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The new combat armor literally looks like a fat version of marine armor in Halo Combat Evolved. The prior design looked more like something the colonial marines or Imperial guard Flak armor which is sort of a less common aesthetic nowadays. We are clearly never going to agree on this and have different tastes in aesthetics.


Have to look at the trailer again but seeing a more refined live action design of the Fallout Combat Armor would've been nice.
 

ThatZenoGuy

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Outside of the G11, what obscure cold war weapons are we missing from later games, or actual 50s and 60s future tech?
While not every weapon is exactly real, they basically all seem appropriate for the period, something that might have actually been designed or built for either civilian or military purposes.

Pancor Jackhammer, Desert Eagle, CAWS, P90, Microguns (no, the bloated oversized things in FO4 don't count, it's supposed to be chambered for 5mm), 14mm pistol, 10mm SMG (weirdly missing in FO4), Bazooka (I mean why is this even missing in new Fallouts?!), Grease gun, that one weird-ass british experimental AR, the FAL, BOZAR, M60, LSW.

And even including weird missing 100% fictional sci fi weapons, where's shit like the Pulse weapons? Actual hitscan rayguns that turn people into electified ash and mulches through power armor?

Oh wait, both FO3 and 4 (and NV, annoyingly) HAS no end-tier enemies. The shit you fight at the end is the same shit you've basically been dealing with at the start, with minor stat boosts.
Um....no? We have no idea what the combat rifle was used for prewar, but it doesn't seem to be a standard issue weapon, since pre-qar soldiers are almost universally depicted with either laser rifles, the 5.56 mm R91 rifle, or the fallout 4 "assault rifle".
That's not very accurate either, we see like a couple FO4 soldiers outside of power armor troops and well, they aren't too imposing.
Fo4Army_Fatigues.png

Basically a WW2 grunt with a fancier helmet. Also the FO4 assault rifle itself looks like a WW1 abomination.
Before FO4 there was a few weapons assumed to be in service with the military, the sniper rifle, a couple AR's in 5mm, laser weapons and plasma weapons. All reasonable so far.
But then FO4 comes along to shit on everything because of course it has to, and now we have to assume they were using .45 rifles as well, because they're titled 'combat rifle' and are found in pre-war locations such as military caches and such.

An almost identically appearing but rechambered weapons shows up as the 'combat shotgun' which weirdly implies the US army cheaped out by giving it's soldiers shotguns that could be rebarreled to .45.
 

ThatZenoGuy

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Unless Bethesda does something drastic I think they will get one more game out before Microsoft basically liquidates the entire company just like it has done countless times in the past. It's really a shame and means TES, Fallout and a few other IP's are going to just end up rotting away unless Microsoft goes out of business.


Much better that way, somebody with respect of the IP's can pick them up down the line.
 

evilchumlee

Well-known member
I *MIGHT* possibly drop back into 76 to try out the Atlantic City thing. 76 is garbage, but i'm from NJ and I always had ideas for a story set in Atlantic City.

I had a half-cocked fanfic about Fallout AC that was alittle bit "Boardwalk Empire" and focused heavily on mob-type stuff, although also with having a functional port. The long story short was there was a Vault in AC, but when the bombs dropped the mob moved in and took over control. By happenstance (and there being little of bother to bomb there), the city itself got throug the war with minimal damage, and the mafia in control of the Vault moved out to control the city. By the time of FO4, Atlantic City is a decently functioning city-state serving as a port, albeit still dominated by a mafia-mentality.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
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Some cool videos Riot NPC Battles Made.

The oldest one being the Legion Invasion of the Capitol Wasteland



Then the Enclave Invading the Mojave Wasteland.



And two neat videos, the NCR Liberating the Pitt.



And most recent of all, the NCR Invades the Capitol Wasteland which has the best storyline narration of the bunch even if I feel some of the battles were pretty janky.

 

ThatZenoGuy

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I gotta admit Gamebryo engine is actually really fun to make AI battles in, they're nowhere near as unpredictable as AI battles in Halo, but they're still just so damned entertaining.
 

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