Election 2020 Election Fraud: Let's face it, this year will be a shitshow

[LordsFire]

As for what pushed Biden over the line? He wasn't trump. Effectively 0% of democrat voters were ever likely to swing to trump. Simultaneously, trump alienated plenty of republicans. There were entire republic movements against him. Sure he got plenty of votes, because he's (For some reason.) incredibly motivating for a specific type of idiot. He's also insanely divisive. trump burned many, many bridges. He never built a single one. Do you think trump ever did a single solitary thing to change the minds of people who didn't like him to start with? Can you not see how plenty of his choices, stances and behaviours would drive away some of the people who did?

And here, again, you show that your thoughts on this subject exists entirely in the continuum of leftist propaganda.

There were absolutely people who voted for Trump that did not vote for him before, including people who voted for Democrats in 2016. Notable examples are Tim Pool and Dave Rubin.

The very fact that Trump won millions more votes in 2020 than 2016 completely wrecks your argument here.

Worse, it was publicly available that not only had Biden actually done a lot of what Trump was accused of (some very racist public statements, litany of footage of him sniffing little girls in ways that make them clearly uncomfortable, openly talking about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating his son fired), so if these sorts of things are supposed to have disqualified Trump, then they absolutely should have disqualified Biden as well.

Why didn't they?

 

[Rocinante]

And here, again, you show that your thoughts on this subject exists entirely in the continuum of leftist propaganda.

There were absolutely people who voted for Trump that did not vote for him before, including people who voted for Democrats in 2016. Notable examples are Tim Pool and Dave Rubin.

The very fact that Trump won millions more votes in 2020 than 2016 completely wrecks your argument here.

Worse, it was publicly available that not only had Biden actually done a lot of what Trump was accused of (some very racist public statements, litany of footage of him sniffing little girls in ways that make them clearly uncomfortable, openly talking about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating his son fired), so if these sorts of things are supposed to have disqualified Trump, then they absolutely should have disqualified Biden as well.

Why didn't they?

Me: Hillary 2016 (I regret that)
Trump 2020.

There are a lot of people like me. If I've learned anything it's that I'm not unique.

 

[Terthna]

Trump is more of hindrance than a help to the movement he created at this point, and the Dems very much want him, and not DeSantis, to run in 2024.

What are you basing that assumption on? Because everything I've seen makes it look like the establishment doesn't want Trump to run.

 

[Rocinante]

What are you basing that assumption on? Because everything I've seen makes it look like the establishment doesn't want Trump to run.

They absolutely do, because they think Biden has a better chance at beating Trump.

They want him to win the Primaries and lose the generals.

That's why they're going for him legally. They know damn well this will fire up his base and get him through the Primaries.

This was their strategy in 2016 and it failed. It was also their strategy in the midterms, and it worked pretty much flawlessly. They propped up a bunch of bad candidates to get them through the primaries, to ultimately lose the generals.

 

[Bigking321]

They propped up a bunch of bad candidates to get them through the primaries, to ultimately lose the generals.

Eh.

More like a bunch of populists got through the primaries then the establishment Republicans did everything they could to make sure as many as possible lost.

Sure the democrats funded a bunch like your saying, but if the establishment wasn't in bed with the dems you would be saying that it backfired again instead of working.

Though if you just want to lump the dems and establishment Republicans together I suppose you could say they managed to successfully thwart the will of the people and sabotage the elections again.

Getting a bit rambley here.

My point is that this isn't a situation where most ones that lost were bad candidates. It's a situation where most candidates that lost were sabotaged by the people in power on both sides.

Not that there weren't bad candidates at all. Dr Oz was a horrible choice for example.

 

[Vyor]

It's likely that Tucker was fired because of his continued insistence on showing J6 footage...

 

[Cherico]

It's likely that Tucker was fired because of his continued insistence on showing J6 footage...

Really hate how controlling the current establishment is.

 

[Bacle]

What are you basing that assumption on? Because everything I've seen makes it look like the establishment doesn't want Trump to run.

The GOP establishment doesn't want Trump to run, the Dem establishment does; Trump alienates a lot of the middle, while DeSantis doesn't, and the GOP establishment likes DeSantis because he has most of Trump's upsides, without Trump's baggage.

 

[Sobek]

If the "middle" is stupid enough to be alienated by Trump after 8 years of constant "scandals" that keep being proven to be absolute bullshit abd fake news then the same middle is just gonna get alienated out of DeSantis if he gets the nomination by equally retarded and fake scandals thay Meatball won't be able to just deal with like Trump is.

You are trying to appeal to "moderates" that either don't exist or who are so fickle their support means fuck all. It's like those marketing and executive types who insist artists change the fuck out of a movie/book/videogame to appeal to a "broader audience" and end up just ignoring the main base and doing nothing to invite anyone new in.

Stick that "baggage" shit up your ass. They like DeSantis because they think they can use him to get the MAGA vote to push him to the White House while making sure the POTUS is someome they can fully control and have follow the instructions given by the oligarchy. It's blatant fucking empty pandering.

 

[Bacle]

You are trying to appeal to "moderates" that either don't exist or who are so fickle their support means fuck all. It's like those marketing and executive types who insist artists change the fuck out of a movie/book/videogame to appeal to a "broader audience" and end up just ignoring the main base and doing nothing to invite anyone new in.

There are more registered independents than members of either the GOP or Dem party, and their vote still counts and often live in the swing areas as well.

Losing a few votes in deep red areas that are safe anyway hurts electoral chances less than alienating key swing voters in the middle and in battleground areas.

Preaching to the choir doesn't work in US politics, and you don't win elections by subtraction, so it's the middle that decides the outcomes in (fair) US elections. DeSantis has a lot of Trump's politics, without his baggage, and not all of Trump's baggage is 'made up', or have you forgotten he's never admitted 'his' vax's are doing so much damage to the population.

DeSantis is Trump without the ego and need to grandstand, which is exactly what we need as a nation. DeSantis will follow through where Trump just blustered and didn't bother to actually use the proper governmental mechanisms to accomplish goals. DeSantis is also not coming in with Trump's pre-politics background; some people forget Trump tried to trademark 'You're Fired' and lost a court case about it not that long before 2016 happened.

Don't like that the middle has this power, tough shit, that's reality, and why always trying to pander to a shrinking fringe on the extreme of the Right is a losing game. There are a lot of people who don't mind Trump's policies, but despise the man personally, and there is no way around that fact.

Trump was a bull in a china shop, and caused the deep state and elite's to drop the mask of what they are. However, Trump needs to stay out of politics, and the GOP needs to keep the MAGA politics his movement pushed; without Trump's ego getting in the way, a lot more of the policies Trump/the GOP want/wanted could be accomplished much easier.

You really need to get a reality check, @Sobek, and understand for the GOP to win in the long term, the fringe is needed less than the middle, and no amount of butthurt from that fringe will change that.

 

[DarthOne]

The GOP establishment doesn't want Trump to run, the Dem establishment does; Trump alienates a lot of the middle, while DeSantis doesn't, and the GOP establishment likes DeSantis because he has most of Trump's upsides, without Trump's baggage.

adding to what our resident ancient Egyptian crocodile god @Sobek said; if you think the Dems, MSM and GOP establishment won’t do to DeSantis exactly what they did to Trump, you are sadly mistaken. Only they’ll have an arguably easier time, because DeSantis doesn’t have as many years proving them wrong.

Also if they were to get DeSantis in and NOT do that? I’d be deeply suspicious.

Edit: Trump is no more on the fringe politically then DeSantis is; or at least no by much.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Hillary doesn't get in trouble for continuing to insist that she really won the 2016 election, and neither do those supporting her.

I don't recall Clinton claiming she "really won" more than the immaterial national popular vote. Is there an easy link?

Also fucking hilarious how you ignore the Steele dossier was faked by the very people who would be investigating Trump Megadeath. Not only that you then go full retard and contradict yourself by complaining that the suits about election fraud needed to have "proof" to go ahead and not just be a suit to demand evidence, when the Steele dossier did EXACTLY THAT. And of course you woukd read the Time article and be all like "oh a huge network of politicians and bussinesspeople just got together to pressure judges not to take legal challenges about the election seriously no big deal super normal guys!"

Maybe I'm being dumb but it sounds to me like you're pretending an investigation is the same thing as a court case. (Otherwise it doesn't seem like a contradiction.) Can you explain how I got it wrong, or just what you were actually saying that isn't that?

Also fuck off with DeSantis the both of you. He is not the guy. The fact he refuses to admit he wants to run in 2024 openly and is instead doing this faggy "oh I am not running I just so happen to go on a book tour while also cozying up to big donors for election ads guys!" is disgusting and pathetic. He is biting the hand that raised him up and trying to be something he obviously isn't.

Florida law apparently prohibited him from running for office while still holding office. He was stalling to buy time to browbeat the (Republican) state legislature into changing that law for him. AFAIK, they have until May 5 to do it in the current legislative session.

 

[Bacle]

adding to what our resident ancient Egyptian crocodile god @Sobek said; if you think the Dems, MSM and GOP establishment won’t do to DeSantis exactly what they did to Trump, you are sadly mistaken. Only they’ll have an arguably easier time, because DeSantis doesn’t have as many years proving them wrong.

Also if they were to get DeSantis in and NOT do that? I’d be deeply suspicious.

Edit: Trump is no more on the fringe politically then DeSantis is; or at least no by much.

See, I think a lot of the GOP establishment liked Trump's politics, but hated his personality, and DeSantis gives them and the GOP as a whole pretty much all of Trump's upsides, without his baggage, and with experience actually governing a state that has resisted and fought back against wokeness in measurable, actionable ways.

Insisting anyone but Trump is just 'controlled opposition' of one flavor or another shows how blinded some people have become by their desire for Trump to be their savior, they cannot comprehend anyone else doing better than Trump without it being someone who is 'controlled opposition'.

This is fucking ridiclous at this point how far some people are going to throw pre-emptive shade and hate at DeSantis for simply being a realistic choice for the GOP besides Trump, and for DeSantis not repelling the middle like Trump does.

It doesn't matter if deep red areas and deep red folks don't get a 'preaching to the choir' candidate, it matters who appeals to the swing 10%, and Trump doesn't.

 

[strunkenwhite]

It doesn't matter if deep red areas and deep red folks don't get a 'preaching to the choir' candidate, it matters who appeals to the swing 10%, and Trump doesn't.

It matters to primary voters though. I think they're increasingly fed up with catering to the tastes of filthy moderates, even if following their heart costs them elections.

 

[ShieldWife]

DeSantis should wait until 2028 to run. He’s still a young man, he could have a long political career in front of him. If he runs against Trump now, he will be forever tainted as the guy the establishment used to undermine Trump. If he’s wise he should stand aside and back Trump in 2024 and build trust with the people he’s need for his 2028 run.

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

DeSantis should wait until 2028 to run. He’s still a young man, he could have a long political career in front of him. If he runs against Trump now, he will be forever tainted as the guy the establishment used to undermine Trump. If he’s wise he should stand aside and back Trump in 2024 and build trust with the people he’s need for his 2028 run.

Every year the Democrats remain in power gives them more opportunities to "fortify" our elections and import more immigrants. 2024 may already be a lost cause as it is, by 2028 the fate of America as a whole will probably be decided one way or the other.

If DeSantis can't take the White House now he never will.

 

[Blasterbot]

See, I think a lot of the GOP establishment liked Trump's politics, but hated his personality, and DeSantis gives them and the GOP as a whole pretty much all of Trump's upsides, without his baggage, and with experience actually governing a state that has resisted and fought back against wokeness in measurable, actionable ways.

Insisting anyone but Trump is just 'controlled opposition' of one flavor or another shows how blinded some people have become by their desire for Trump to be their savior, they cannot comprehend anyone else doing better than Trump without it being someone who is 'controlled opposition'.

This is fucking ridiclous at this point how far some people are going to throw pre-emptive shade and hate at DeSantis for simply being a realistic choice for the GOP besides Trump, and for DeSantis not repelling the middle like Trump does.

It doesn't matter if deep red areas and deep red folks don't get a 'preaching to the choir' candidate, it matters who appeals to the swing 10%, and Trump doesn't.

if appealing to 10% of fickle people who cannot look past trumps personality for his actual policy requires you to alienate 15% of your base it is a terrible choice that will cost you down ballot. those people will hear that desantis is a rascist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, transphobe, nazi. who is worse than Trump. and they will believe it. they will only learn through pain. and they will bring it on themselves. I can live in the shit economy they bring about. they can't.

 

[Sobek]

See, I think a lot of the GOP establishment liked Trump's politics, but hated his personality, and DeSantis gives them and the GOP as a whole pretty much all of Trump's upsides, without his baggage, and with experience actually governing a state that has resisted and fought back against wokeness in measurable, actionable ways.

You are so wrong it is funny. They hated Trump from day one. They hate that he is willing to attack the sacred cow of "muh bussiness" for the sake of the USA. They hate that he isn't just giving more money to the MIC.

You are coming at this from a completly wrong angle. No wonder you think DeSantis has a chance with that sort of mentality.

Your "middle" shit is not gonna work because you don't actually know what "middle" you are trying to appease. You have let the MSM types set the board and keep playing by their rules, so they move the pieces to the left and your dumbass thinks "oh my pieces are too much to the right let me just put them closer to the center" and every time you fall for it.

DeSantis is having it so easy in Florida it isn't even funny. Florida has been a safe GOP state for over a decade, and has majority GOP control on all levels. Compare that to Trump who had to deal with a entire Federal government that was setup and ready to welcome Hillary to the point they already were acting like her getting elected was a formality.

You are being absurdly naive to think Meatball is gonna be able to deal with this shit, especially when the GOP people who would back him in a heartbeat would be electoral poison to most MAGA. He won't even commit to saying he is running, and keeps pussyfooting around and crying when Trump treats him like he is. If he can't even handle that I have no hope for him to deal with a media who has shown themselves willling to lie about a tape showing a golden shower orgy totally exists guys.

 

[Bacle]

It matters to primary voters though. I think they're increasingly fed up with catering to the tastes of filthy moderates, even if following their heart costs them elections.

Which is why primary appeal should never be mistaken for general election chances, and why the people who vote in primaries need to think about the general election when the nominate people, not just the 'preaching to the choir' crowd's desires.

DeSantis should wait until 2028 to run. He’s still a young man, he could have a long political career in front of him. If he runs against Trump now, he will be forever tainted as the guy the establishment used to undermine Trump. If he’s wise he should stand aside and back Trump in 2024 and build trust with the people he’s need for his 2028 run.

Thinking of it as 'against Trump', instead of as possibly representing people tired of Trump, is the wrong way to view DeSantis, and frankly is falling for the 'Trump Savior Complex' too many still have, and it's just as dumb now as the 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' is and has been.

It's time to move on from Trump.

if appealing to 10% of fickle people who cannot look past trumps personality for his actual policy requires you to alienate 15% of your base it is a terrible choice that will cost you down ballot. those people will hear that desantis is a rascist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, transphobe, nazi. who is worse than Trump. and they will believe it. they will only learn through pain. and they will bring it on themselves. I can live in the shit economy they bring about. they can't.

Those 10% are the ones who swing general elections and live in swing districts/states, and Trump's 'down ballot' effect was negative in 2022, so it's unlikely Trump's down ballot effect will get better with his poor choice in endorsements recently.

Also, I kinda doubt the attacks that worked on Trump will work on DeSantis; half of Trump's issues were getting into petty and stupid fights over dumb shit, when he should have either ignored the issue or dealt with it more professionally.

Not all of Trump's flaws were/are media fabrications.

You are so wrong it is funny. They hated Trump from day one. They hate that he is willing to attack the sacred cow of "muh bussiness" for the sake of the USA. They hate that he isn't just giving more money to the MIC.

You are coming at this from a completly wrong angle. No wonder you think DeSantis has a chance with that sort of mentality.

Your "middle" shit is not gonna work because you don't actually know what "middle" you are trying to appease. You have let the MSM types set the board and keep playing by their rules, so they move the pieces to the left and your dumbass thinks "oh my pieces are too much to the right let me just put them closer to the center" and every time you fall for it.

DeSantis is having it so easy in Florida it isn't even funny. Florida has been a safe GOP state for over a decade, and has majority GOP control on all levels. Compare that to Trump who had to deal with a entire Federal government that was setup and ready to welcome Hillary to the point they already were acting like her getting elected was a formality.

You are being absurdly naive to think Meatball is gonna be able to deal with this shit, especially when the GOP people who would back him in a heartbeat would be electoral poison to most MAGA. He won't even commit to saying he is running, and keeps pussyfooting around and crying when Trump treats him like he is. If he can't even handle that I have no hope for him to deal with a media who has shown themselves willling to lie about a tape showing a golden shower orgy totally exists guys.

And I think you are massively out of touch with the majority of the US moderates or their actual political views, while operating on accelerationist logic where anyone but Trump is 'controlled opposition'.

As I said above, I doubt the attacks they used against Trump will be anywhere near as effective as against DeSantis, because DeSantis doesn't have an ego he needs to satisfy like Trump does.

 

[Blasterbot]

Those 10% are the ones who swing general elections and live in swing districts/states, and Trump's 'down ballot' effect was negative in 2022, so it's unlikely Trump's down ballot effect will get better with his poor choice in endorsements recently.

Also, I kinda doubt the attacks that worked on Trump will work on DeSantis; half of Trump's issues were getting into petty and stupid fights over dumb shit, when he should have either ignored the issue or dealt with it more professionally.

Not all of Trump's flaws were/are media fabrications.

correct not all of them are. it is in fact very easy to point them out. and they still lied all the time. and every "moderate" I talk to only references the lies.

don't think that those swing voters in those swing states are the only people there. you will lose people in those states. people that did not vote before trump, and won't if he is visibly fucked over without a fair shake. If trump doesn't endorse the winner of the primary? 15% is about what I expect to stay home. I hear those same "moderates" believe the media's take on the don't say gay bill. I hear them say he wants to genocide trans and that he hates minorities. as much as I don't like his politecs Seth McFarlane had it right when he talked about swing voters.