Election 2020 Election Fraud: Let's face it, this year will be a shitshow

[Cherico]

Neo-cons are not right wing.

Its more correct to say they have been more or less kicked out of the republican coalition and are moving into the democrat one. Its a political realinment so all of the pieces and fractions are moving around.

 

[Megadeath]

Neo-cons are not right wing.

New conservatives are not right wing?

EDIT; Come to think of it, whether they are or aren't right ring, the response was in reply to a question about what conservatives believe. Pretty sure neo conservatives can be classified as at least a sort of conservative.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

New conservatives are not right wing?

Their name is a misnomer to a large degree. And you can be conservative without being right-wing. There are such things like Conservative Socialism...

 

[Megadeath]

Their name is a misnomer to a large degree. And you can be conservative without being right-wing. There are such things like Conservative Socialism...

True, see my edit. The question replied to wasn't actually about what right wingers believe, but what conservatives believe. Also I'd add that arguments about which groups do or don't count as a t̶r̶u̶e̶ ̶s̶c̶o̶t̶s̶m̶a̶n̶ right-winger kinda proves my initial point.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

True, see my edit. The question replied to wasn't actually about what right wingers believe, but what conservatives believe. Also I'd add that arguments about which groups do or don't count as a t̶r̶u̶e̶ ̶s̶c̶o̶t̶s̶m̶a̶n̶ right-winger kinda proves my initial point.

Indeed. We have a wide spectrum of right-wingers here, and we can very much vociferously with each other on some issues. For instance, I'd argue that some level of government intervention in the economy is not just appropriate- but highly desirable*. But, I am Canadian and our culture differs, I have thought about these issues...and I can actually look to Canada's great infrastructure projects and say, "This was worth doing."

Though for the most part, I tend to agree that too much government regulation is bad for the economy and it strangles out competition (especially smaller firms) and has a tendency towards monopoly through regulatory capture...

*At the right time and place, and at the correct levels that is. Bailing out the banks is not an example, for instance. What I am talking about is the government intervention that opened up massive parts of Canada for develop. Like the CNR, the irrigation in Palliser's Triangle, etc. Or what Diefenbaker did to open up our North. Mostly the government intervening in this respect, creating opportunities for the economy to expand as opposed to meddling in it.

 

[S'task]

Thats is a interesting series of statement please elaborate

This has been well known for nearly a decade, and was shown first through the research on Moral Foundation Theory by Haidt.

The Moral Stereotypes of Liberals and Conservatives: Exaggeration of Differences across the Political Spectrum

We investigated the moral stereotypes political liberals and conservatives have of themselves and each other. In reality, liberals endorse the individual-focused moral concerns of compassion and fairness more than conservatives do, and conservatives endorse the group-focused moral concerns of...

journals.plos.org

"Across the political spectrum, moral stereotypes about “typical” liberals and conservatives correctly reflected the direction of actual differences in foundation endorsement but exaggerated the magnitude of these differences. Contrary to common theories of stereotyping, the moral stereotypes were not simple underestimations of the political outgroup's morality. Both liberals and conservatives exaggerated the ideological extremity of moral concerns for the ingroup as well as the outgroup. Liberals were least accurate about both groups. "

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theindependentwhig.com

"In a study I did with Jesse Graham and Brian Nosek, we tested how well liberals and conservatives could understand each other. We asked more than two thousand American visitors to fill out the Moral Foundations Qyestionnaire. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out normally, answering as themselves. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out as they think a “typical liberal” would respond. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out as a “typical conservative” would respond. This design allowed us to examine the stereotypes that each side held about the other. More important, it allowed us to assess how accurate they were by comparing people’s expectations about “typical” partisans to the actual responses from partisans on the left and the right)’ Who was best able to pretend to be the other?

The results were clear and consistent. Moderates and conservatives were most accurate in their predictions, whether they were pretending to be liberals or conservatives. Liberals were the least accurate, especially those who described themselves as “very liberal.” The biggest errors in the whole study came when liberals answered the Care and Fairness questions while pretending to be conservatives."

These studies were done nearly a decade ago BEFORE media siloing and and as much sorting has happened. Given the systemic efforts at censoring Conservative speech that happens on modern college campuses and algorithmically by Google and other companies, I can only imagine it has gotten worse as time goes on.

This ability to more correctly predict how someone on the left would answer political questions showcases well that the typical conservative is less siloed and more exposed to left wing ideas than the inverse, and the consistent inability of liberals, especially far left liberals, to answer these questions correctly as conservatives would shows that they both don't understand the right and are not exposed to right wing ideas, thus they are more consistently in echo chambers and getting siloed information.

As to polarization and the left moving more leftward more rapidly than the right, well, despite the headlines, the Washington Post showcased it rather dramatically:

This shows that the Republican party, while it has moved rightwards since 2000, has only had slight movement in that direction. Meanwhile the Democrats have shifted DRAMATICALLY leftward in comparison and very rapidly as well.

This is backed up by other surveys, take this article going over the details, with this chart that showcases things:


Now, you might consider the Democrats going farther to the left a good thing, and that's fine. You might also consider that the Republicans remaining more or less consistently right wing to be a bad thing, that's also fine. What is undeniable though is that Democrats have moved more left, faster than Republicans have shifted rightward in the last two decades.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I have seen that idea thrown about but never seen it backed up with anything fact based which is odd,

It's not that odd, the facts are there but they are inconvenient for the narrative so they tend to be censored.

F'rex here's a 2009 study by the University of Virginia. The results of testing how well people understand their political opponent's position were clear. Conservatives were much better at telling how liberals think than liberals were at telling how conservatives do. Of course they deleted the paper when it became politically undesirable but the Internet hasn't forgotten.

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

As it's dry and technical, I have listed their conclusions here and left a link to the methodology and data for those who want to dig.

1. Are the moral stereotypes accurate with regard to the direction of liberal-conservative differences in the foundations? Yes.
2. Are these stereotypes exaggerations of the real group differences? Yes.
3a. Conservatives were most accurate about the individual-focused moral concerns of either side, and liberals were least accurate.
3b. Moderates were most accurate about the group-focused moral concerns of either side, and liberals were least accurate
3c. Liberals exaggerate moral differences the most

And a key paragraph:

Liberals see conservatives as being motivated by an opposition to liberals’ core values of compassion and fairness, as well as being motivated by their own (non-moral) values of ingroup loyalty, respect for authorities and traditions, and spiritual purity. For instance,when conservatives express binding-foundation moral concerns about gay marriage—e.g., that it subverts traditional gender roles and family structures—liberals may have difficulty perceiving any moral value in such traditional arrangements and therefore conclude that conservatives are motivated by simple homophobia, untempered by concerns about fairness, equality, and rights.

This misperception is asymmetrical: conservatives did underestimate liberal moral concerns with the binding foundations, but they were no more likely to underestimate than liberals themselves.

Edit: And Ninja'd

 

[LordsFire]

Bit of a red herring. Conservatives are kind of a loose coalition of many different groups, some of whom have totally separate but mostly non-conflicting beliefs, and some with shared beliefs arrived at through different reasoning.

There's a reason I asked for 'a few key,' not 'the key.'

To be blunt, I'm expecting him to come back with nothing but the stock propaganda from leftist media and leftist political leadership. If he can accurately describe, say, three key beliefs of right-Libertarians, Conservative Christians, heck, even monarchists or the odd 'big-business conservative' I'll be surprised.

I doubt he even knows what the distinction between a neo-con is, but if he can accurately describe some of their values, I'd accept that too.

I don't think he's capable though, not with the sorts of things he's been saying, and how he's been saying them. I think that repetition of propaganda talking points is all we'll see.

 

[Vyor]

Its more correct to say they have been more or less kicked out of the republican coalition and are moving into the democrat one. Its a political realinment so all of the pieces and fractions are moving around.

New conservatives are not right wing?

EDIT; Come to think of it, whether they are or aren't right ring, the response was in reply to a question about what conservatives believe. Pretty sure neo conservatives can be classified as at least a sort of conservative.

Is a group that was created by marxists and liberals right wing or conservatives?

 

[Bacle]

Is a group that was created by marxists and liberals right wing or conservatives?

He's not wrong that Neocons do view themselves as conservatives.

Remember Neocons came to power under Bush Jr., because the main defining characteristics of Neocons are that they are the globalist conservatives, or at least they are in the sense they believe the US has to be the world police, and have never seen an excuse for war or conflict they did not like. Neocons are also the 'oil based conserative' group, since there is a lot of connections between oil companies and neocon politicians.

 

[DarthOne]

Democrats Are Already Telling Americans To Expect Delayed Election Results This Fall

Democrats Are Already Forecasting Delayed Election Results

Left-wing media outlets attempt to downplay concerns over delayed election results and regularize incompetent election administration.

thefederalist.com

Left-wing media outlets attempt to downplay concerns over delayed election results and regularize incompetent election administration.

Democrats throughout the political and corporate media spheres are attempting to normalize delayed election results in highly contested states ahead of Election Day, forecasting that final vote totals might not be fully known until well after Nov. 8.

During a Zoom call with reporters last week, Pennsylvania’s acting secretary of state, Leigh Chapman, said that Americans should not be surprised if the state doesn’t have final election results on election night this November, with the Pennsylvania Democrat blaming any potential delays in vote tabulations on a state law that says election workers can’t begin processing mail-in ballots until Election Day.



“Official results will be available within a few days,” Chapman said. “This delay does not mean anything nefarious is happening. It simply means that the process is working as it is designed to work in Pennsylvania and that election officials are doing their job to count every vote.”

Pennsylvania is among nine states and the District of Columbia that permit election officials to begin processing absentee and mail-in ballots prior to the polls closing, but not before Election Day, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. As of Oct. 19, more than a million Pennsylvania voters had applied to vote by mail, with Chapman telling reporters the “overwhelming majority” of mail-in ballot requests have come from Democrats.

Delayed election results are not a new phenomenon for Pennsylvania; back in late May, the state took over a week to finalize the results of its Republican Senate primary that saw Mehmet Oz locked in a close contest with Dave McCormick. Voters in the state also experienced similar delays during the 2020 presidential election, where it took several days for the state to be called for then-candidate Joe Biden.

Most recently, the U.S. Supreme Court tossed out a lower court ruling that had allowed undated mail-in ballots to be counted, which is a violation of Pennsylvania law. Despite such statutory obligations and the high court’s ruling, Chapman decided to take matters into her own hands and flat-out told counties in the commonwealth that they didn’t need to comply with the ruling. The statement from Chapman has since prompted a lawsuit from the Republican National Committee and other GOP groups.


Democrats’ 2022 Playbook
In predictable fashion, left-wing media outlets are attempting to downplay concerns over delayed election results and regularize incompetent election administration. In the write-up of Chapman’s remarks, for instance, ABC News went out of its way to run interference for the Pennsylvania Democrat and titled the article, “Why Pennsylvania may not have election night results and why that’s OK.”

Other notable outlets pushing the same narrative include Politico, which on Sept. 19 ran an article headlined, “Why we may not know who won the Senate on Election Day,” that detailed how it “took five days after Election Day 2020 to tally enough votes for media organizations to call the presidential race for Joe Biden” and warned that the “same thing could happen in some of the country’s most important midterm elections this year.”

“Many of the same factors in the same battleground states are at play in 2022, starting with races that could have very slim margins,” state politics reporter Zach Montellaro wrote. “Add in the continued popularity of mail voting and state laws in Pennsylvania and elsewhere that can delay processing of those ballots, and the chance of another waiting game is distinct — possibly with control of the Senate up in the air.”

Not wanting to miss out on all the fun, the left-wing “fact checker” Politifact ran a similar piece on Oct. 3 titled, “Not all results will be known on election night 2022. That’s normal.” Citing several political journalists and “election experts,” the article’s authors argue that while there are “a few reasons to hope that the 2022 midterm elections will produce a faster count than 2020 did,” a “big lesson of 2020 voting — being patient — will be important this year, too.”


“Americans may not know on election night which party will control the House or Senate in 2023, if the results are close in multiple states with hot congressional races,” the Politifact report reads. “It might take days, or longer, to count enough ballots to know with reasonable certainty the outcome of key races.”

“People shouldn’t think of ‘election night’ anymore, rather ‘election week,'” it added.

Cause for Concern?
Try as they may to soften the blow of delayed election results, Democrats’ plan is banal at best. In 2020, outlets such as The New York Times and The Washington Post were already attempting to prepare voters for a long, drawn-out election process stemming from a massive increase in mail-in voting. Fairly soon, the media began pushing the narrative that Trump’s presumed election night lead, or the “red mirage,” would evaporate as mail-in ballots — which were used heavily by Democrat voters — were counted in the days following the election.

Despite their bid to cast “election week” as the “new normal,” the extensive amount of time it takes for U.S. election officials to finalize election results is embarrassing when compared to other first-world countries. In France, for example, it took officials less than 24 hours to determine the winner of its recently held presidential election. To date, the European nation still uses paper ballots in elections, while mail-in voting was outlawed in 1975 over concerns of “potential fraud.”

While none of this is to say that any potential delays in counting in the 2022 midterms will be a result of fraud, international election observers have indicated that delayed election results are one of several warning signs of incompetent election administration. But above all, forcing voters to wait in limbo while government officials take days to determine the outcome of an election does nothing but raise suspicions among the electorate about the validity and transparency of the electoral process. In the end, the biggest losers are the people themselves, whose trust in one of their country’s core institutions is further eroded and destroyed.

'Delay', uh-huh....

 

[Bacle]

Democrats Are Already Telling Americans To Expect Delayed Election Results This Fall

Democrats Are Already Forecasting Delayed Election Results

Left-wing media outlets attempt to downplay concerns over delayed election results and regularize incompetent election administration.

thefederalist.com

'Delay', uh-huh....

Delayed just long enough to know how many fake ballots the Dems will need to win key races, particularly in the Senate.

I think the Dems and elite may allow the GOP to take a slim majority in the House, just to 'calm' the GOP base a little, but I doubt the GOP will be allowed to have over 50 seats in the Senate.

 

[DarthOne]

Delayed just long enough to know how many fake ballots the Dems will need to win key races, particularly in the Senate.

I think the Dems and elite may allow the GOP to take a slim majority in the House, just to 'calm' the GOP base a little, but I doubt the GOP will be allowed to have over 50 seats in the Senate.

Then we know what we have to do.

 

[Bacle]

Then we know what we have to do.

Didn't realize this was an issue, removed.

 

[LordSunhawk]

Actually it is against the law to record video within a polling place, nor may you take photographs. In AZ, at least, nothing of the sort may happen within the 75 foot bubble around the polls.

Please do not advocate for people to break the law. I will say, as a poll worker, that this cycle, unlike 2020, we are actually getting the proper materials to follow secure election procedures (tamper-evident seals, proper chains of custody, proper two-person rules for handling ballots, etc). As such, any chicanery will be happening on the back end, not the front end.

I would prefer an end to mail-in ballots, however there is a proposition on the ballot that effectively neuters the ability to cheat that way by adding verifiable ID requirements to mail-in ballots as well as tightening up ID requirements. While it will be irritating to check IDs for people dropping off mail-in ballots, it's something that needs to be done.

 

[Bacle]

Actually it is against the law to record video within a polling place, nor may you take photographs. In AZ, at least, nothing of the sort may happen within the 75 foot bubble around the polls.

Please do not advocate for people to break the law.

This is something the Left has not respected at all, and it is not enforced against them.

And why is it against the law for people to take photo's of their own votes in a polling booth? And why is is illegal to get evidence of any fuckery people notice in polling stations?

This sounds like the sort of law the Dems put in place to make it easier to pull shit like they did in 2020.

I will say, as a poll worker, that this cycle, unlike 2020, we are actually getting the proper materials to follow secure election procedures (tamper-evident seals, proper chains of custody, proper two-person rules for handling ballots, etc). As such, any chicanery will be happening on the back end, not the front end.

Have they fixed the so called 'non-internet connected' voting machines, because if the machines/voting software just does the 'D votes = 1.23, R votes = 0.77' shit, it doesn't matter how secure the front end is.

I would prefer an end to mail-in ballots, however there is a proposition on the ballot that effectively neuters the ability to cheat that way by adding verifiable ID requirements to mail-in ballots as well as tightening up ID requirements. While it will be irritating to check IDs for people dropping off mail-in ballots, it's something that needs to be done.

I wouldn't mind getting rid of mail in voting, but that's the only real way for deployed military and some disabled people to vote.

Securing vote-by-mail with ID checks and such is a move in the right direction though.

 

[LordSunhawk]

This is something the Left has not respected at all, and it is not enforced against them.

And why is it against the law for people to take photo's of their own votes in a polling booth? And why is is illegal to get evidence of any fuckery people notice in polling stations?

This sounds like the sort of law the Dems put in place to make it easier to pull shit like they did in 2020.
Have they fixed the so called 'non-internet connected' voting machines, because if the machines/voting software just does the 'D votes = 1.23, R votes = 0.77' shit, it doesn't matter how secure the front end is.

I wouldn't mind getting rid of mail in voting, but that's the only real way for deployed military and some disabled people to vote.

Securing vote-by-mail with ID checks and such is a move in the right direction though.

Actually we enforce the 75 foot bubble rather vigorously, normally. In the 2018 and 2020 cycles this wasn't true, due to the incompetent moron in charge, but in 2022 we enforce it very strongly. The anti-electioneering provisions have been in place for at least 50 years in AZ.

The in-precinct tabulators now have proper tamper evident seals on the doors that would allow access to any such ports, plus we run both zero and results tapes. The shenanigans will come with adjudication of provisional ballots and such, rather than the ordinary ballots.

 

[Bacle]

Actually we enforce the 75 foot bubble rather vigorously, normally. In the 2018 and 2020 cycles this wasn't true, due to the incompetent moron in charge, but in 2022 we enforce it very strongly. The anti-electioneering provisions have been in place for at least 50 years in AZ.

Hmm, ok then; I had not realized the prohibition on recording your vote and voting place were part of electioneering provisions.

The in-precinct tabulators now have proper tamper evident seals on the doors that would allow access to any such ports, plus we run both zero and results tapes. The shenanigans will come with adjudication of provisional ballots and such, rather than the ordinary ballots.

Well, having tamper seals on those ports is a step in the right direction.

Still think voting machines that can connect to the internet or any network at all is a hilarious stupid idea and very open to abuse, but at least something meaningful is being done to attempt to address the problem.

 

[Vyor]

Hmm, ok then; I had not realized the prohibition on recording your vote and voting place were part of electioneering provisions.

It's meant to stop intimidation of poll workers and those voting.

 

[LordSunhawk]

Hmm, ok then; I had not realized the prohibition on recording your vote and voting place were part of electioneering provisions.

Well, having tamper seals on those ports is a step in the right direction.

Still think voting machines that can connect to the internet or any network at all is a hilarious stupid idea and very open to abuse, but at least something meaningful is being done to attempt to address the problem.

The connections are indirect, there are ports that are used for uploading the ballot styles into the tabulators memory (so it can properly read the almost 500+ ballot styles in use in Maricopa County) but you can hook up external network ports using them. With the tamper-evident seals that is no longer possible, we record all seal information and preserve any opened seals (we remove them at the end of the night in order to remove the results cartridge, which is brought to the receiving site along with the tapes).

We have, I might add, 'solved' the issue that led to Sharpiegate and Sharpiegate 2.0entel Boogaloo. If the ink isn't completely dry when you feed the ballot into the tabulator then it smears on the mylar film inside the tabulator which will cause issues. We now have cleaning supplies suitable to clean that film, which should prevent issues.