Election 2020 Election 2020: It's (almost) over! (maybe...possibly...ahh who are we kidding, it's 2020!)

[Xilizhra]

This. This is why a lot of people are moving from 'suspicious' to 'they straight-up sold it.' If this is the most secure election ever, why the hell is there so much fishy going on? Conservatives didn't raise hell when Obama won his first or second time. If Republicans were supposed to be as racist as Dems claim, why are people 'fabricating claims' now, instead of when a black man was about to take office?

The complaints aren't based on being sore losers. They're based on this being the most blatantly fraudulent presidential election in most of our lifetimes.

Erm, Obama just had different fabricated claims. Remember Birtherism?

 

[Bacle]

I honestly do not think that's the case.

The democratic establishment Is starting to slowly figure out that the progressive side of the party is bug fuck nuts, and the progressive side is starting to figure out that the establishment are essentially corrupt assholes who are only in it for the power. That's a civil war that's already starting to go off now.

Letting crazy people go after other peoples lawyers means that they might come for your lawyers some day. Letting these guys get arrested means one less person that goes after them in the future.

If they do get arrested for it, you may have a point, but I highly doubt they will.

The Far-Left know they can make corporations and local politicians bend the knee, they will not stop, and they do have enough power to make the establishments Dems play ball at this point. They are a best that the establishment Dems only THINK they still control, and that control is increasingly fragile.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Erm, Obama just had different fabricated claims. Remember Birtherism?

Funny enough people still hold onto kenyagate which at this point makes no sense.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Dude, literally. I’m trying to get across the fucking simple point that civil wars are weighty and fucking serious affairs. People are indeed right to consider them the last and most simple way of resolving problems, but they need to consider what they actually entail. How is something so exceedingly simple so easily misunderstood, it can’t be stupidity because no one here is that stupid, it must be willful blindness.

I think it's more of the fact not mere weeks ago, you wanted trump to go god emperor and purge the heathans and then went rabid accelerationst mode saying "Burn it (The US) all down and may it never be remembered." the fact that you are treating it with such caution and gravitas all of the sudden is frankly....well whiplash.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's more of the fact not mere weeks ago, you wanted trump to go god emperor and purge the heathans and then went rabid accelerationst mode saying "Burn it (The US) all down and may it never be remembered." the fact that you are treating it with such caution and gravitas all of the sudden is frankly....well whiplash.

I consider it a positive thing when someone drinks a bitter draught of sobriety and assesses matters of state coldly.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Hastur is making the implicit assumption these two positions are contradictory.

When if he had considered my past statements and my more recent ones more deeply, he would know there is no contradiction between sobriety and passionate principle.

 

[Unhappy Anchovy]

Would it also have to be a massive conspiracy for... hmmm let's say, just a random imaginary possibility here, for the Russians to interfere in elections?

I don't see where I made any claim about Russian interference. As such this is not a valid response to me.

You know what, @random_boy232 , @Unhappy Anchovy, @Xilizhra and all the others that disbelieve in widespread voter fraud? Give me a reason why would you oppose recounts and audits to lay the matter to rest once and for all.

Hm? Recounts are perfectly fine. Georgia's going to have a recount, and I have no objections. Close results should have multiple counts. That's just good practice.

I don't see how that changes anything I said? It is vanishingly unlikely that any recount would swing a state, much less enough states to make Trump win the election. As such, given the facts on the ground - that there is no real evidence of fraud, and that the chances of recounts altering anything are so infinitesimal - I think that Trump ought to do the right thing and formally concede.

Yes, that is always a possibility. But that is rather implausible, since Trump has already gotten the highest vote of any sitting president, and somehow Joe Biden of all people massively out preforms both Hillary and Obama. How plausible is it that Joe Biden, who is unlikable, uncharisma, scandal ridden, has a past of racist remarks, and is obviously corrupt would do that much better. So how likely is it that he genuine won, if he did so much better than he logically should have? The man talking to empty parking lots could some how pull in over 75 million votes?

We are in an age of hyper-polarisation and negative partisanship. It's not surprising that turnout was high. Remember that Trump is also one of the most hated American presidents of all time, and barring a short period slightly after inauguration, has never had a net positive approval rating. Over fifty percent of the country consistently disapproved of the way he did his job, over years. As such it is entirely plausible that there was massive turnout in order to get rid of him. That is to say that Trump is such a polarising figure that this election featured significantly boosted turnout, both for and against him.

However, I think the deeper issue here is that this and other arguments you make in the same post essentially boil down to, "Trump can't have lost the election because it feels wrong to me. I feel like he ought to have won. Therefore he won." See also:

And really you think Georgia somehow voting for Biden is the will of the people? By such razor thing margins, in a contested election, in a clearly red state, that is full of Trump supporters. What is more likely a Republican state wants a Republican President, or they want an incredibly corrupt, unlikable, and uncharismatic democratic president. That sounds pretty unplausible to me, so I will reiterate it will be violence, because they dared to enforce the will of the people. And thus political terrorism.

This is absurd. You find it implausible that Biden might have won Georgia, therefore... what? No. Only one thing will determine whether or not Biden won Georgia, and that thing is the number of votes. So far it looks like Biden won Georgia, but there will be a recount, as it's really razor-thin and I don't know which way it will go.

But the point is that your gut feeling is not a reliable guide to election outcomes. See also:

I would say they do, I have actually seen MACA hats, and heard plenty of people being fellow travellers. And I would wager they polled the big cities and not the places where Canada's Trump supporters would most likely live. Such as smaller cities, or rural communities. Because face it, those communities are almost never polled and big cities are taken to be representative of the whole. And of course, they'd think a Biden presidency would be good for Canada, Biden is more pliable to our interests! And I will admit, I do have my own issues with Trump for the continuance of American economic aggression at my country, and many Canadians are going to be even angrier than me who can take it in proportion.

I note that I looked up polling data, made a quick calculation, clearly stated all my assumptions, and then chucked a 10% bonus for Trump on to the end just for the lulz. You... are citing anecdotes. Okay? I mean, you've seen a MAGA hat, congratulations. I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. Do you disagree with my conclusion that Canadians overwhelmingly dislike Trump, and that at a rough guess, only a quarter to a third of Canadians at most are likely to be sympathetic to claims of voter fraud?

It is good you actually admitted some contrary evidence, and I'd say Israelis like Trump for the same reason many Canadians dislike him, political interest.

My guess would be that Trump's foreign policy has been unusually pro-Israel (cf. the embassy in Jerusalem), and that Israelis are unlikely to care that much about American domestic politics, so from their perspective Trump has been quite good for them.

Going back a bit now...

And now you are agreeing with someone calling for violence when he doesn't get his way. Good to know.

I said that he and the National Review are correct that it would be disastrously awful if state legislatures were to ignore the votes and appoint electors in defiance of the will of the people. I explicitly said that I was not encouraging violence. Yeesh.

This forum is not right wing, nor is it meant to be.

As Joe Biden himself might say, "C'mon, man."

Actually, I think that is more like you. You ignore all the information, because it doesn't fit your preconceived notions. And a flawed map can get you killed, it gives you false confidence. So I'd rather have no map, then I am forced to think on my feet and use all my available knowledge to survive. Every trick and every rule of thumb, rather than relying on information that could get me killed. To me you are saying you'd rather rely on obviously flawed information that is told to you, than thinking for yourself.

I don't think you are using numbers? The closest you came above was saying that you don't find the turnout for Biden believable, but that's not an estimate you're basing on any actual numbers of data. It's based on your estimate of what's realistic for Biden, which is to say, another gut feeling.

Which ones have been laughed out? He just won in Pennsylvania big time. I am going to need a citation for that, because I am seeing Trump winning plenty.

...I cited Trump's lawsuits in my opening post. Here's the link I included there. The vast majority of Trump's lawsuits have been dismissed. The one victory in Pennsylvania is too small to change the result of the election.

To be clear, he's filed over a dozen lawsuits. It looks like about eight have been outright rejected, a few are currently ongoing, and the only two victories are a trivial suit in Pennsylvania about standing a few feet closer to vote-counters, and one about ballots that didn't receive supplemental identification by the 9th. This will not change the result.

It doesn't need to be a massive operation, just many small operations and a larger one at the top. You don't need any large scale organizational efforts these days to organize things. Just look at ISIS, Antifa, and the Hong Kong protests.

One thing ISIS, Antifa, and the Hong Kong protests have in common is that none of them were trying to execute an extremely complex and subtle operation, in secret, across an entire nation of more than three hundred and twenty million people. Antifa doesn't have coordination problems because there's nothing to coordinate: all you have to do to be part of Antifa is put on a black hoodie and a mask and go punch some people.

But beyond that, it's important that none of those groups are secret. ISIS has not been able to convince anyone that it doesn't exist. The Hong Kong protesters have not silently manipulated the Hong Kong Legislative Council from the shadows with impunity. The thing about the protests or Antifa or the like is that they don't require massive coordination, because the main thing they're doing is turning out in public, being seen, and showing discontent. That is the opposite of what a giant, covert electoral fraud organisation would need to be.

@Unhappy Anchovy <deleted content>
No voter fraud?

If you check back, you will notice that I consistently said "no significant voter fraud and no election fraud". One random guy on Twitter alleging an individual irregularity is not evidence of widespread election fraud. Over a hundred and fifty million people voted in this election. You need to take scale into account: if, say, 0.01% of all votes are cast fraudulently, which is probably believable for clerical error, that's still fifteen thousand mistakes.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I consider it a positive thing when someone drinks a bitter draught of sobriety and assesses matters of state coldly.

agreed, it's mainly a surprise more than anything. I really think a terrorist attack in people's own back yard will make people think twice.

When if he had considered my past statements and my more recent ones more deeply, he would know there is no contradiction between sobriety and passionate principle.

there kind of is when you go from "Fight fight fight! Deus Vult!" to questioning if it's a good idea. It's called walking it back.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually not a bad show.

The interviews outlined exactly what I thought; the massive strange surges are from last-minute desperate attempts to fix the vote, because they simply hadn't made enough to beat Trump. If that is the case, then it would explain some of Trump's behavior. Election fraud when the plan goes off well would be hard to detect. Election fraud because you had to try and ballot stuff in the last minute is much easier to beat.

You’re telling me that all of the registered republican poll workers in state after state after state just participated in outright ballot stuffing... That this, which is uncovered within minutes in third world dictatorships where they do it now, thanks to the smart phone, has been kept secret from Trump’s lawyers for almost two weeks?

 

[Deleted member]

You know what, @random_boy232 , @Unhappy Anchovy, @Xilizhra and all the others that disbelieve in widespread voter fraud? Give me a reason why would you oppose recounts and audits to lay the matter to rest once and for all. Why? If there isn't any voter fraud then wouldn't you want conclusive proof of the vote's integrity, something such an audit would provide and you'll get to wave it in the face of Trump supporters? Or do you think Trump is going to magically """""suppress"""" legal votes through a bipartisan highly supervised audit? Because that would be one heck of a conspiracy theory.

I don’t oppose any of it. But I am completely convinced there’s absolutely no viable evidence of fraud and that Biden will be the next US President when it’s done. Look at Florida, 2000 and where it was after two weeks. The court cases were much more advanced because actual evidence existed.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Frankly it does not interest me if there was significant voter fraud or not. The fact is Joe Biden is the president elect. And that barring outright divine intervention either he or Kamala Harris will be president on January 21st.

What interests me more is what this says about the state of American society, it’s government, culture, spiritual aspirations, and social composition.

The fact Biden is elected reveals to us a lot about these things.

That is they are rotten beyond repair, and must be allowed to fade into history. One way or another. Either in a glorious cataclysmic palingenesis, or through the triumphant and inexorable decay of Time who has never been defeated by any empire in history.

agreed, it's mainly a surprise more than anything. I really think a terrorist attack in people's own back yard will make people think twice.



there kind of is when you go from "Fight fight fight! Deus Vult!" to questioning if it's a good idea. It's called walking it back.

Deus Vult is serious business my friend. I can entirely support it and also caution not for people to reject it but to contemplate what it means.

As Jesus said to his disciples, they needed to count the cost of following him.

I want everyone to count the cost. That doesn’t mean the cost isn’t worth it, it just means it should be counted.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Orange man gone now GTFO.

 

[The Original Sixth]

You’re telling me that all of the registered republican poll workers in state after state after state just participated in outright ballot stuffing...

Be a rather difficult feat given that they were ejected early. Did you perchance watch the video?

That this, which is uncovered within minutes in third world dictatorships where they do it now, thanks to the smart phone, has been kept secret from Trump’s lawyers for almost two weeks?

Trump alleged fraud the night of the election, the day after, and every day for the past ten days. Whistleblowers are coming forward. Strange things have happened with Dominion, which was not accepted in Texas due to being faulty and easily penetrated.

Either way, there's no reason why we can't investigate the allegations.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Deus Vult is serious business my friend. I can entirely support it and also caution not for people to reject it but to contemplate what it means.

As Jesus said to his disciples, they needed to count the cost of following him.

I want everyone to count the cost. That doesn’t mean the cost isn’t worth it, it just means it should be counted

I fear your going to be in for a shock when the trumpets sound.

 

[Deleted member 88]

I fear your going to be in for a shock when the trumpets sound.

Perhaps. I’ve considered that contingency. And I will face eternity with the dignity that is incumbent upon me to show.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Perhaps. I’ve considered that contingency. And I will face eternity with the dignity that is incumbent upon me to show.

I think you're wrong in more ways then one.I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Deleted member 88]

The system is rotten, and has lost the moral legitimacy to continue.

This is an inescapable conclusion of anyone who has paid attention in the last oh decade or so, and studied history, of the past half century, at the minimum.

The country such as it is becoming more decadent, more ugly, more wretched, more wrong and wrong and wrong. In every way.

I understand people are emotionally and psychologically attached to America. But America is dead.

It’s in the ground and has been for years. If not decades.

The thing that it is now is an unholy corpse rotting that somehow will not cease to be.

I have total confidence that flowers will bloom and something will be born of this rotting carcass. Something beautiful, new and old and rich and wonderful.

But the fact Joseph Robinette Biden is President should helpfully open eyes and hearts as to the true nature of modern America.

 

[Bacle]

I don’t oppose any of it. But I am completely convinced there’s absolutely no viable evidence of fraud and that Biden will be the next US President when it’s done. Look at Florida, 2000 and where it was after two weeks. The court cases were much more advanced because actual evidence existed.

Oh evidence does exist, you know it does, but acknowledging it might put your ass in sling if Biden is able to steal his way in.

Your actions and words seem far more like trying to cover your own ass and toe the line on Hatch Act issues.

 

[Jormungandr]

The system is rotten, and has lost the moral legitimacy to continue.

This is an inescapable conclusion of anyone who has paid attention in the last oh decade or so, and studied history, of the past half century, at the minimum.

The country such as it is becoming more decadent, more ugly, more wretched, more wrong and wrong and wrong. In every way.

I understand people are emotionally and psychologically attached to America. But America is dead.

It’s in the ground and has been for years. If not decades.

The thing that it is now is an unholy corpse rotting that somehow will not cease to be.

I have total confidence that flowers will bloom and something will be born of this rotting carcass. Something beautiful, new and old and rich and wonderful.

But the fact Joseph Robinette Biden is President should helpfully open eyes and hearts as to the true nature of modern America.

Jesus H Christ mate, you're like a walking My Chemical Romance stereotype.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

I understand people are emotionally and psychologically attached to America. But America is dead.

It’s in the ground and has been for years. If not decades.

The thing that is now is an unholy corpse rotting.

I disagree, while America as an institution might be rotting/heavily decaying/dead by this point, it's immortal as an ideal, and that's were it counts, not in policy or bureaucracy. It will never truly be dead, as even if it's decaying embodiment falls, so too will the people rise to erect a likeness of it's golden age in it's place.