Election 2020 Election 2020: It's (almost) over! (maybe...possibly...ahh who are we kidding, it's 2020!)

[LindyAF]

IIRC, a large part of the reason for this, was because the revocation of the 'citizen soldier' laws and ethos. At one point, all soldiers had been land-owners, and part of why the Roman Legions were so numerous and driven, was because the Legionaires had a stake in Rome.

The question of land grants to soldiers was definitely a wedge between the soldiers and the republic, although I thought the decline of the citizen soldier ethos was more associated with the decline of the Empire. I think a big part of it was just that, well, if you're tramping around Gaul for a few years, living and dying by someone's command, and he showers you in honor and glory, well, that's a lot more immediate and trustworthy an authority than some fat cat fucks sitting on their asses in Rome.

OK, so what's the problem with that? To my understanding, the thousands of affidavits could be used to argue for this position just as well. Why were the claims dismissed? Why was the evidence considered insufficient?

I'm not arguing there wasn't fraud, in fact I know there was at least one case (not one of Guiliani's) where a democrat activist was shown to be illegally harvesting ballots- and IIRC they're going to jail over it. I'm just saying that's what Guiliani alleged instead of fraud. I didn't follow any of the cases closely- imo it was clear what the outcomes were going to be, but I don't think any of the cases besides the Texas one actually alleged issues big enough to change the results. There was no smoking gun. The Texas one got dismissed by lack of standing.

I do think there was fraud, enough to change the results, but that view essentially comes down to that on election night Trump was winning pretty handily, up in all the important swing states, overcoming Biden's early lead in some states due to mailed in ballots. And then at midnight democratic counties in six swing states stopped counting (later though, that got retconned, and they never actually stopped counting) and then in the morning the votes they started counting again at 3am erased that lead. There's no smoking gun, there, no proof. Just, if I saw this happen in another country I'd think it was probably rigged there too.

But it's essentially like if a museum or something had it's diamonds go missing and now the janitor is driving a lambo. Yeah, he stole them. But "he obviously did it, come on" probably isn't going to hold up in even a sympathetic court.

 

[lordmcdeath]

OK, so what's the problem with that? To my understanding, the thousands of affidavits could be used to argue for this position just as well. Why were the claims dismissed? Why was the evidence considered insufficient?

A few reasons, a court is more likely to offer immediate and extensive remedy or injunctions in the case of a fraud versus procedure and total errors. That is probably the most immediately relevant.

The claims are largely dismissed in part to not having the fillings or arguments done by someone who understand the jurisdictions election law. Only the last Trump lawsuit in Georgia was at all well filed or argued, and by then, the well has been poisoned and the time is basically gone. Judges really don't like you using the same sworn testimony over and over again.

Also, you should avoid suing anyone in Federal Court if you can. The Federal system has one of the most restrictive interpretations of standing and the robust understanding of latches. The Federalist Society in particular a hugely supportive of both and they've been basically been picking the conservative and some democratic judges, especially on the Federal level. It is called tort reform by the backdoor.

There are even a few Supreme court decisions related to environment that a big part of that. Its why if you have any option you go to the state courts, with someone who knows them well.

 

[lordmcdeath]

I do think there was fraud, enough to change the results, but that view essentially comes down to that on election night Trump was winning pretty handily, up in all the important swing states, overcoming Biden's early lead in some states due to mailed in ballots. And then at midnight democratic counties in six swing states stopped counting (later though, that got retconned, and they never actually stopped counting) and then in the morning the votes they started counting again at 3am erased that lead. There's no smoking gun, there, no proof. Just, if I saw this happen in another country I'd think it was probably rigged there too.

The problem with that thought, is those states didn't count the mail in ballots first. Some states can count mail in ballots as they are received but those six aren't those. The vote count could only begin the day of, and democratic counties tend to have much higher density.

Beyond that, there are states Trump won with similar spikes and even spikes of majority trump votes in a few.

 

[Airedale260]

The problem with that thought, is those states didn't count the mail in ballots first. Some states can count mail in ballots as they are received but those six aren't those. The vote count could only begin the day of, and democratic counties tend to have much higher density.

Beyond that, there are states Trump won with similar spikes and even spikes of majority trump votes in a few.

Yeah, that’s due to the fact that mail-in voting was generally by Democrats; since Trump had raised concerns prior to the election, Republican voters preferred to wait until the day of. That was the “red mirage” that the press kept referring to, since a lot of jurisdictions don’t allow for counting absentee ballots until after polls close.

Now, I happen to think this was an unmitigated shit show and that we really need to restrict absentee voting (and eliminate early voting outright) because the states simply aren’t set up for this. But I’m also skeptical of the claims of “widespread fraud.”

 

[LindyAF]

The problem with that thought, is those states didn't count the mail in ballots first. Some states can count mail in ballots as they are received but those six aren't those. The vote count could only begin the day of, and democratic counties tend to have much higher density.

Beyond that, there are states Trump won with similar spikes and even spikes of majority trump votes in a few.

The vote count starting the day of and the first votes being counted being disproportionately mail ins aren't contradictory. IIRC as it was happening Arizona was initially blue enough that Fox called it prematurely due to mail in ballots, even though even official numbers were fairly close at the end, and Pennsylvania had an early blue lead from mail ins & Philly, it got wiped out, then Biden came back in the dead of night b/c of mail ins & Philly redux.

End of the day though, it's not about any specifics. I'm not going to trust any argument about why ackshually elections that flip at 3am on the following day are trustworthy, and see zero reason to give the establishment regime any benefit of the doubt on this.

 

[Terthna]

But it's essentially like if a museum or something had it's diamonds go missing and now the janitor is driving a lambo. Yeah, he stole them. But "he obviously did it, come on" probably isn't going to hold up in even a sympathetic court.

Probably not, but it should at least be enough to justify investigating said janitor; otherwise, that museum is going to quickly find itself stripped of everything of value.

 

[Greengrass]

The vote count starting the day of and the first votes being counted being disproportionately mail ins aren't contradictory. IIRC as it was happening Arizona was initially blue enough that Fox called it prematurely due to mail in ballots, even though even official numbers were fairly close at the end, and Pennsylvania had an early blue lead from mail ins & Philly, it got wiped out, then Biden came back in the dead of night b/c of mail ins & Philly redux.

End of the day though, it's not about any specifics. I'm not going to trust any argument about why ackshually elections that flip at 3am on the following day are trustworthy, and see zero reason to give the establishment regime any benefit of the doubt on this.

It was extremely widely known before the election that late ballots in states that counted mail in ballots after the regular ballots were going to lean heavily Dem. Dems were much more likely to vote by mail this election (due to them actually being worried about coronavirus and Trump being heavily against mail in voting), so of course the ballots that you are counting late night/early morning (when the day-of votes are done being counted) are going to be mostly for Biden. This was widely known and widely reported, even by Fox, before the election.

 

[Terthna]

It was extremely widely known before the election that late ballots in states that counted mail in ballots after the regular ballots were going to lean heavily Dem. Dems were much more likely to vote by mail this election (due to them actually being worried about coronavirus and Trump being heavily against mail in voting), so of course the ballots that you are counting late night/early morning (when the day-of votes are done being counted) are going to be mostly for Biden. This was widely known and widely reported, even by Fox, before the election.

It's also "widely known" that all Trump supports are Nazis who want to kill minorities; so that's not really a valid argument.

 

[Greengrass]

It's also "widely known" that all Trump supports are Nazis who want to kill minorities; so that's not really a valid argument.

Tell me which of these statements you disagree with, because it is pretty straightforward.

1) Mail in votes leaned Democratic this year, because Democrats were more likely to have concerns about COVID and therefore vote by mail, and because Trump was heavily against mail in voting so Republicans were discouraged from voting by mail.
2) Several states did not allow counting mail in ballots before the day of the election.
3) On the day of the election, election workers are kind of busy dealing with the election and the votes that are coming in.
4) Therefore, they don't start counting mail in ballots until late evening/early morning.
5) Therefore, the ballots being counted in the late evening/early morning in those states would be lean Democratic (because they're mail in ballots which leaned Democratic)
6) Therefore, even if Trump was ahead in the early evening, it is possible that Biden could pull ahead with the later counted votes which lean Democratic.

 

[Terthna]

Tell me which of these statements you disagree with, because it is pretty straightforward.

1) Mail in votes leaned Democratic this year, because Democrats were more likely to have concerns about COVID and therefore vote by mail, and because Trump was heavily against mail in voting so Republicans were discouraged from voting by mail.
2) Several states did not allow counting mail in ballots before the day of the election.
3) On the day of the election, election workers are kind of busy dealing with the election and the votes that are coming in.
4) Therefore, they don't start counting mail in ballots until late evening/early morning.
5) Therefore, the ballots being counted in the late evening/early morning in those states would be lean Democratic (because they're mail in ballots which leaned Democratic)
6) Therefore, even if Trump was ahead in the early evening, it is possible that Biden could pull ahead with the later counted votes which lean Democratic.

To be honest? None of them. Taken by themselves, it's easy to conclude from those points that no fraud occurred; but they do not encompass the whole scope of what happened during the election. Like the fact that they lied about stopping the count, the fact that they blocked observers from observing the count, the fact that Biden somehow managed to set a new record for most votes received. Bare minimum, an investigation should have been conducted to, if nothing else, confirm that no fraud occurred; the fact that any attempt to do so was blocked by the establishment is, in my opinion, the strongest evidence that there was indeed fraud.

 

[GoldRanger]

Why does treason never prosper?

What does this have to do with anything?

Because of the "I'm Retarded" defense, you basically can't convict on voter fraud unless they confess.

But in theory they can order an investigation into the irregularities and suspend the election results in the meantime (or something to that effect, not sure on the exact jurisdictions of those specific courts). So why a complete dismissal? If he proved "merely" that the voting has been garbage, without intent, that should be more than enough to take action.

 

[Terthna]

The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election

For more than a year, a loosely organized coalition of operatives scrambled to shore up America’s institutions

web.archive.org

They don't even care about keeping it secret anymore; they know their followers will believe everything they do is right, as long as they present it in the right way. As for the rest of us? We don't have any power, and at worst, their followers will defend them; so who cares what we know, right?

 

[Rocinante]

The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election

For more than a year, a loosely organized coalition of operatives scrambled to shore up America’s institutions

web.archive.org

They don't even care about keeping it secret anymore; they know their followers will believe everything they do is right, as long as they present it in the right way. As for the rest of us? We don't have any power, and at worst, their followers will defend them; so who cares what we know, right?

I've given this its own thread because this is fucking major and doesn't deserve to be burried in a megathread.

I hope mods let it stay.

https://the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/time-magazine-openly-admits-to-rigging-fortifying-the-election.4919/

 

[Bacle]

Sorry to necro this thread, but there has been an update that goes here:



Kavanaugh and ACB are showing they weren't worth the fight to put on the bench.

It is very obvious now that CJ Roberts was not going to allow any challenge to the laws that let the Dems steal the election, either before or after the fact.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Sorry to necro this thread, but there has been an update that goes here:



Kavanaugh and ACB are showing they weren't worth the fight to put on the bench.

It is very obvious now that CJ Roberts was not going to allow any challenge to the laws that let the Dems steal the election, either before or after the fact.

What a disappointment ACB turned out to be, all of the justices beside Thomas and Alito can go fuck themselves.

 

[Bacle]

What a disappointment ACB turned out to be, all of the justices beside Thomas and Alito can go fuck themselves.

Gorsuch did join Alito and Thomas in dissenting.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Gorsuch did join Alito and Thomas in dissenting.

Yeah but he didn't in the case in December.

Anyways, here's what Justice Thomas said.

One wonders what this Court waits for. We failed to settle this dispute before the election, and thus provide clear rules. Now we again fail to provide clear rules for future elections. The decision to leave election law hidden beneath a shroud of doubt is baffling. By doing nothing, we invite further confusion and erosion of voter confidence. Our fellow citizens deserve better and expect more of us. I respectfully dissent.

 

[Bacle]

Yeah but he didn't in the case in December.

True, but he may have thought they would actually address it for things going forward.

Anyways, here's what Justice Thomas said.

He's on the money here; the court is effectively punting on this, and at the worst possible time.

If SCOTUS won't touch election cases anymore, or only rule on them in the Dems favor, then cleaning up the election process and restoring trust in the ballot box is going to be much harder to actually achieve.

 

[Terthna]

True, but he may have thought they would actually address it for things going forward.
He's on the money here; the court is effectively punting on this, and at the worst possible time.

If SCOTUS won't touch election cases anymore, or only rule on them in the Dems favor, then cleaning up the election process and restoring trust in the ballot box is going to be much harder to actually achieve.

The Supreme Court has essentially surrendered their status as a branch of government. Nobody should take them seriously anymore as a check on the legislative or executive branches.

 

[Rocinante]

The Supreme Court has essentially surrendered their status as a branch of government. Nobody should take them seriously anymore as a check on the legislative or executive branches.

Yeah, these are important cases.

Allegations of fraud aside, PA and others violated the constitution. This is why the SC fucking exists. But they won't see the case.

It's a fucking atrocity.