East Palestine Ohio Train Crash & Poison Gas Plume Megathread

[Abhorsen]

See, I get the doubt about gov agencies, but the Corp of Engineers is one of the few relatively apolitical, still competent, and necessarily-equipped agencies to handle a nationalized rail-network.

If you nationalize the rail network, it won't stay apolitical. That's the issue you are missing here. If it becomes valuable, it will be corrupted. If it isn't corrupted, it isn't valuable. You are making the classic mistake of assuming that the government can work at scale because it can do other, more minor things (and make no mistake, running the rail network is significantly more than they do know).

 

[Bacle]

If you nationalize the rail network, it won't stay apolitical. That's the issue you are missing here. If it becomes valuable, it will be corrupted. If it isn't corrupted, it isn't valuable. You are making the classic mistake of assuming that the government can work at scale because it can do other, more minor things (and make no mistake, running the rail network is significantly more than they do know).

And you are making the mistake of thinking that having functional and smooth rail is optional for our current level of civilization, and seem to forget how horribly the rail companies treat their operators due to the working conditions.

The Corp of Engineers would be more humane bosses to the operators than the current heads, at least until full anti-trust and corruption probes and cleanings are done.

And your mistake is thinking that rail isn't already political; giving it to ACE would be a step towards apolitical management once again.

Plus, the Corp of Engineers undeniably has the knowledge and expertise to safely run and maintain trains and their infrastructure. Any building/project in the US that needs an Environmental Impact Statement has to run through some ACE office at some point in the approval process as it is, and rail projects, particularly badly needed new rail lines, would already be under ACE purview to begin with, this just removes a lot of middle men, and lets ACE directly deal with stuff via contractors or rail troops.

 

[Abhorsen]

And you are making the mistake of thinking that having functional and smooth rail is optional for our current level of civilization, and seem to forget how horribly the rail companies treat their operators due to the working conditions.

The Corp of Engineers would be more humane bosses to the operators than the current heads, at least until full anti-trust and corruption probes and cleanings are done.

The corp of engineers as it is right now, might be better. It will become bloated and worse in short order after nationalization.

And your mistake is thinking that rail isn't already political; giving it to ACE would be a step towards apolitical management once again.

HAHAHAHAHA! Yes, because a company doing company things is so political. It's why politicians decide the price of freight transport. Oh, wait, they don't. Just because something is bad doesn't make it political.

And on top of that, the insane idea that giving control to ACE will lead to apolitical management. Government control is never apolitical except to morons. In fact, giving control to ACE is the great step to making ACE a political football.

 

[Sailor.X]

I'm not sure how you think that a government which refuses to enforce law against the railroad companies now, would be likely to enforce law if it had even more power over them.

I don't care about conservative Dogma or Liberal Dogma. I am a moderate pragmatist. All I care about is getting the job done. And the current corporations getting away with doing nothing is not making things better it is making things worst. It is even spilling into interstate highway projects now. The private sector is scamming the American public now. In SC when the State DOT makes a better road than two major road construction companies under contract. You know the private sector is up to something rotten. Until that is fixed it is better for the Army Corps of Engineers to be in charge. They could work with State Agencies to streamline things for efficiency sake.

 

[Bigking321]

They could work with State Agencies to streamline things for efficiency sake.

🤨...

State Agencies

efficiency

HA! Good one. 👍

 

[LordsFire]

I don't care about conservative Dogma or Liberal Dogma. I am a moderate pragmatist. All I care about is getting the job done. And the current corporations getting away with doing nothing is not making things better it is making things worst. It is even spilling into interstate highway projects now. The private sector is scamming the American public now. In SC when the State DOT makes a better road than two major road construction companies under contract. You know the private sector is up to something rotten. Until that is fixed it is better for the Army Corps of Engineers to be in charge. They could work with State Agencies to streamline things for efficiency sake.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem.

I'm saying your solution is guaranteed to make it worse.

If the ACE is as efficient and apolitical right now as some people are talking about, it won't be for long.

 

[Sailor.X]

I'm not saying there isn't a problem.

I'm saying your solution is guaranteed to make it worse.

If the ACE is as efficient and apolitical right now as some people are talking about, it won't be for long.

We are out of options. The Railroads aren't being held accountable because they have deep pockets , lobbyists and high priced lawyers. And they are allowing rail lines they control to degrade to horde profits. I don't care about dogma or what might happen. The current situation is already a disaster. Time to pull the trigger and let the ACE fix it.

 

[LordsFire]

We are out of options. The Railroads aren't being held accountable because they have deep pockets , lobbyists and high priced lawyers. And they are allowing rail lines they control to degrade to horde profits. I don't care about dogma or what might happen. The current situation is already a disaster. Time to pull the trigger and let the ACE fix it.

You just act like nationalizing railroads improving the situation is a given. That it's an incontrovertible fact that doesn't need to be supported, it's simply self-evident.

It isn't.

 

[Sailor.X]

You just act like nationalizing railroads improving the situation is a given. That it's an incontrovertible fact that doesn't need to be supported, it's simply self-evident.

It isn't.

I would rather take my chances with the ACE handling the Railroads. Than to have another East Palestine and Graniteville. Corporations gave us those two.

 

[Robovski]

ACE is the best case scenario in government takeover and is not a sure thing. Government control could go to a newly formed department or to some stupid desk like Interstate Commerce.

 

[Captain X]

 

[Karmic Acumen]

I'm surprised at this board. Government involvement always makes things worse. How is this even up for debate?

 

[filipina84]

Well…shit.

Oh my goodness.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

I'm surprised at this board. Government involvement always makes things worse. How is this even up for debate?

To be fair that is highly subjective especially on the subject of railroads as this crisis wasn't solely the responsibility of the government doing too much or too little nor was Norfolk Southern guiltless either.

Most rail failures of the past century aren't due to regulation but the fact that some regulations enable shenanigans by already greedy and incompetent management leading to more shenanigans.

Does anybody here know why PennCentral failed in the 70's? Why AmTrack and Conrail came into existence? The answer is government intervention, bad regulations, incompatible mergers greed, incompetence and a whole host of other issues.

Also, as someone who recently looked into, I can't recommend enough looking up videos on the absolute tire fire that was the Penn Central Railroad.


Its a sight to behold a sign that despite how bad East Palestine was it can always be worse...

In short, the reason Consolidated Rail or Conrail was founded was because a mix of problems the Penn Central would have been a troublesome rail line enough but The Government taking forever to finalize the merger leaving doubts as if to it would even happen and forcing all railroads in the U.S. to maintain a passenger service despite them being a money sink didn't help.

Ironically when the Government was forced to bail out Penn Central and establish Conrail it forced them to realize how outdated many of the old regulations were when they got forced to actually run a damn railroad rather than pretend they knew how it worked, that is why all passenger services were handed over to Amtrack among other things so rather than being a sinkhole for the railroads it became one for the U.S. government.

 

[49ersfootball]

I've heard that Biden is finally going to be visiting East Palestine, OH. Wondering if he'll get booed by folks down there ?

 

[Rocinante]

I've heard that Biden is finally going to be visiting East Palestine, OH. Wondering if he'll get booed by folks down there ?

I hope so. I doubt they're going to be happy to see him.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

I've heard that Biden is finally going to be visiting East Palestine, OH. Wondering if he'll get booed by folks down there ?

"People of East Palestine sorry about neglecting to engage with you over the past year since this accident happen, I was busy clamping down on the rail union's when they striked, but things have changed this year, and I would like for you to forgive me by voting blue for blue skies in November!

Yeah, they aren't going to be happy Biden's press secretary hardly addressed East Palestine the man himself didn't lift a finger beyond what was expected and because of that he can't even rail against any injustice because the first question will be why he didn't address it sooner.

To quote East Palestine's own Mayor Trent Conway...

"My personal opinion the best time for him to come would be February of 2025 when he is on his book tour."

 

[Culsu]

"People of East Palestine sorry about neglecting to engage with you over the past year since this accident happen, I was busy clamping down on the rail union's when they striked, but things have changed this year, and I would like for you to forgive me by voting blue for blue skies in November!

Yeah, they aren't going to be happy Biden's press secretary hardly addressed East Palestine the man himself didn't lift a finger beyond what was expected and because of that he can't even rail against any injustice because the first question will be why he didn't address it sooner.

To quote East Palestine's own Mayor Trent Conway...

That sounds way to coherent to come from Biden's mouth. There's got to be a few fumbles in there, as well as an anecdote how two weeks ago he met with Ulysses S. Grant whom he knows as the president of Mercosul or something...

 

[PsihoKekec]

So blowing up the chemical tanks and contaminating the entire area might have been completely unnecessary. Oops.

 

[Cherico]

So blowing up the chemical tanks and contaminating the entire area might have been completely unnecessary. Oops.

yeah that's going to haunt him for awhile.