Derek Chauvin Trial: summer 2020 electric boogaloo

[Rocinante]

Except it was ti restrain him. The thing is, you don't know if someone is telling the truth or not. Especially thr I can't breathe. Often times people will stop resting long enough for officers to ease up and attack the officers. So you often keep them there a longer time.

The EMTs put him on the stretcher. He wa salsa heavy as fuck and not easy to pick up

There were several minutes where he had stopped responding entirely and you had people there saying "he's not responding you need to check his vitals" and Chauvin chose to instead remain there with his knee in the unresponsive man's neck.

Idk why so many people want to suck this dude's nuts so hard. He fucked up. If people want to talk what degree the charges should be, or what the exact crime should be, that's fine, but I keep seeing people act like he did nothing wrong. That's just insane. (A shitload of police agree with that too.)

If Chauvin had treated him like a human, he might be alive today. Maybe some narcan or Medical intervention could have saved his life. But no, instead he chose to hold the man down by his neck for several minutes after he stopped responding.

 

[Zachowon]

There were several minutes where he had stopped responding entirely and you had people there saying "he's not responding you need to check his vitals" and Chauvin chose to instead remain there with his knee in the unresponsive man's neck.

Idk why so many people want to suck this dude's nuts so hard. He fucked up. If people want to talk what degree the charges should be, or what the exact crime should be, that's fine, but I keep seeing people act like he did nothing wrong. That's just insane. (A shitload of police agree with that too.)

If Chauvin had treated him like a human, he might be alive today. Maybe some narcan or Medical intervention could have saved his life. But no, instead he chose to hold the man down by his neck for several minutes after he stopped responding.

They didn't know he was high.
You dint give narcan to someone who you dint know what they have.

They did CPR on him while waiting for EMTs.

Do you know how often people "Stop" resisting ti get cops off of thrm? Do you know that the pedestrians were part of the reason as in case he was faking it, you do not want people that close as they are then within cross fire and the suspects reach should he get up.

 

[Rocinante]

They didn't know he was high.
You dint give narcan to someone who you dint know what they have.

They did CPR on him while waiting for EMTs.

Do you know how often people "Stop" resisting ti get cops off of thrm? Do you know that the pedestrians were part of the reason as in case he was faking it, you do not want people that close as they are then within cross fire and the suspects reach should he get up.

Ah yes maybe he was just acting, as he gasped for his final breaths, and as his body went limp, and his heavy labored breathing ceased entirely.

Chauvin was totally just protecting those innocent bystanders.

Oh Please.

At the very least it was inexcusable negligence that happened here.

As for your narcan comment...do You know what narcan does to someone who isn't having an OD? Nothing. It's harmless. Maybe if instead of holding Floyd down by the neck, Chauvin took his vitals and maybe thought to administer narcan, Floyd would be alive. Or even if he wasn't, Chauvin wouldn't be sitting in a trial.

His negligence landed him in a courtroom and he deserves to be there.

 

[Zachowon]

Ah yes maybe he was just acting, as he gasped for his final breaths, and as his body went limp, and his heavy labored breathing ceased entirely.

Chauvin was totally just protecting those innocent bystanders.

Oh Please.

At the very least it was inexcusable negligence that happened here.

As for your narcan comment...do You know what narcan does to someone who isn't having an OD? Nothing. It's harmless. Maybe if instead of holding Floyd down by the neck, Chauvin took his vitals and maybe thought to administer narcan, Floyd would be alive. Or even if he wasn't, Chauvin wouldn't be sitting in a trial.

His negligence landed him in a courtroom and he deserves to be there.

Yes. In a perfect world that would have hapoend. He was being yelled at and harassed during this. So he was kinds not fully focused on Floyd because if those bystanders.

Have you ever been in a high stress situation?

 

[Rocinante]

Yes. In a perfect world that would have hapoend. He was being yelled at and harassed during this. So he was kinds not fully focused on Floyd because if those bystanders.

Have you ever been in a high stress situation?

He had almost 9 minutes to come to his senses and there were several other police around.

Sorry, "high pressure situation" doesn't cut it. Officers work in high pressure situations every day. He sat there stationary on the man's neck. For almost 9 minutes.

 

[Zachowon]

He had almost 9 minutes to come to his senses and there were several other police around.

Sorry, "high pressure situation" doesn't cut it. He sat there stationary on the man's neck. For almost 9 minutes.

How long into that time till he died was it?

Because there have been plenty of cases where bystanders try and free the person being arrested. So trying to get him up and someone helps him.
Boom.
You now have more then one person going against you trying to maintain him.

The officer followed the rules, and in a high stress situation (time Flys when you are doing these things) so you really don't know how long it had been.

 

[LordsFire]

Just checking, are some of you not aware that the 'kneeling on neck' thing is literally what the Minneapolis Police Department trained and created policy for its officers to do?

Or that he could visibly, clearly breathe, as he was talking?

That the coroner who examined the body determined that there were no signs of asphyxiation or constricted airways? That the death was due to massive drug overdose?

As in, to the best of the actual medical data available, George Floyd died of a drug overdose, and there was literally nothing the officers did which contributed to that death?

Are you aware that they had called for medevac well before Floyd became unresponsive?


Now, to be clear, I am not claiming that the MPD's training and policy are good. I am not claiming that what Chauvin was doing was the best thing in the situation. I'm not claiming to know for sure what was going on in his head at the time.

But unless you have some information I am unaware of that officers from that police department are given some kind of crash kit and training in how to use it, that has the right counter-agents to treat drug overdose, there is literally nothing they could have done to save his life.

If you have information that those cops did have such equipment, that does substantially change the circumstances. Please link me if you have a source on them having that kit and/or training.

 

[Rocinante]

How long into that time till he died was it?

Because there have been plenty of cases where bystanders try and free the person being arrested. So trying to get him up and someone helps him.
Boom.
You now have more then one person going against you trying to maintain him.

The officer followed the rules, and in a high stress situation (time Flys when you are doing these things) so you really don't know how long it had been.

Nobody is trained to hold a "blood choke" on someone for 9 minutes.

I've done thousands of them and had them done to me thousands of times. Properly applied, you're asleep in 4-12 seconds.

After 9 minutes, you're dead.

 

[ShieldWife]

All of this discussion is about potential incompetence or maybe even manslaughter, and it’s certainly reasonable to say that Chauvin could have handled the situation better, but there isn’t any indication that Chauvin intended for Floyd to die or that he acted with total disregard for Floyd’s life.

 

[Rocinante]

Just checking, are some of you not aware that the 'kneeling on neck' thing is literally what the Minneapolis Police Department trained and created policy for its officers to do?

Or that he could visibly, clearly breathe, as he was talking?

That the coroner who examined the body determined that there were no signs of asphyxiation or constricted airways? That the death was due to massive drug overdose?

As in, to the best of the actual medical data available, George Floyd died of a drug overdose, and there was literally nothing the officers did which contributed to that death?

Are you aware that they had called for medevac well before Floyd became unresponsive?


Now, to be clear, I am not claiming that the MPD's training and policy are good. I am not claiming that what Chauvin was doing was the best thing in the situation. I'm not claiming to know for sure what was going on in his head at the time.

But unless you have some information I am unaware of that officers from that police department are given some kind of crash kit and training in how to use it, that has the right counter-agents to treat drug overdose, there is literally nothing they could have done to save his life.

If you have information that those cops did have such equipment, that does substantially change the circumstances. Please link me if you have a source on them having that kit and/or training.

I don't think this was much of an airway choke. Pressure on him could have made it difficult to breath, but from the angle I can see, it's mostly going to be cutting off the corotid artery, which will knock someone unconscious and eventually kill them, even if their airway is free.

 

[Rocinante]

All of this discussion is about potential incompetence or maybe even manslaughter, and it’s certainly reasonable to say that Chauvin could have handled the situation better, but there isn’t any indication that Chauvin intended for Floyd to die or that he acted with total disregard for Floyd’s life.

The point I am willing to entertain:

You can argue that floyd didn't intentionally kill him.

You can argue that maybe it was the drugs that killed him.

But the knee in the neck for nine minutes was negligent, and it certainly didn't help.

People don't always die from "lethal doses." A lethal dose means it CAN kill you. Not that it DOES. A larger person with a high tolerance can survive. And if they are given narcan or other medical intervention, they can survive.

A knee on the neck for 9 minutes usually isn't the best way to help them survive an overdose.

 

[StormEagle]

I don't think this was much of an airway choke. Pressure on him could have made it difficult to breath, but from the angle I can see, it's mostly going to be cutting off the corotid artery, which will knock someone unconscious and eventually kill them, even if their airway is free.

Except, I believe, the medical examiner found no evidence of a blood choke either.

@LordsFire can correct me if I’m wrong though.

 

[Rocinante]

Except, I believe, the medical examiner found no evidence of a blood choke either.

@LordsFire can correct me if I’m wrong though.

Pretty sure there isn't really any solid evidence left behind from a blood choke, seeing as if they're released you can recover just fine in a few seconds.

(I have been in literally thousands of them)

 

[LordsFire]

Nobody is trained to hold a "blood choke" on someone for 9 minutes.

I've done thousands of them and had them done to me thousands of times. Properly applied, you're asleep in 4-12 seconds.

After 9 minutes, you're dead.

Chauvin didn't put Floyd into a blood choke. That is not what happened.

People don't always die from "lethal doses." A lethal dose means it CAN kill you. Not that it DOES. A larger person with a high tolerance can survive. And if they are given narcan or other medical intervention, they can survive.

It wasn't just a lethal dose of drugs. It was multiples of the amount needed to kill, just of the one drug, on top of the other things in his system.

And also, apparently he had some kind of tumor that secretes adrenaline into his system, but I don't fully understand that part of it.

 

[Rocinante]

Chauvin didn't put Floyd into a blood choke. That is not what happened.



It wasn't just a lethal dose of drugs. It was multiples of the amount needed to kill, just of the one drug, on top of the other things in his system.

And also, apparently he had some kind of tumor that secretes adrenaline into his system, but I don't fully understand that part of it.

A knee on the side of someone's neck like that for nine minutes can easily cut off the carotid artery.

 

[Zachowon]

Nobody is trained to hold a "blood choke" on someone for 9 minutes.

I've done thousands of them and had them done to me thousands of times. Properly applied, you're asleep in 4-12 seconds.

After 9 minutes, you're dead.

A knee on the side of someone's neck like that for nine minutes can easily cut off the carotid artery.

It wasn't a fuckimg blood choke!
Fucking hell!

He had his knee on his neck as a control measure so he can't move. It was heavy enough to keep him from moving. It was not a blood choke.

If you looked at the training manual you would know

 

[Rocinante]

It wasn't a fuckimg blood choke!
Fucking hell!

He had his knee on his neck as a control measure so he can't move. It was heavy enough to keep him from moving. It was not a blood choke.

If you looked at the training manual you would know

I had a training buddy apply this to me. At the right angle with the pressure in the right spots, it's ABSOLUTELY a blood choke. Even if it's not meant to be when being trained.

The pressure between the knee and floor puts enough pressure on for me to start seeing stars after it's held for a bit.

 

[Terthna]

I had a training buddy apply this to me. At the right angle with the pressure in the right spots, it's ABSOLUTELY a blood choke. Even if it's not meant to be when being trained.

The pressure between the knee and floor puts enough pressure on for me to start seeing stars after it's held for a bit.

So how do you know that the knee on George Floyd's neck was at the right angle, in the right spots, to be a blood choke?

 

[Abhorsen]

Just checking, are some of you not aware that the 'kneeling on neck' thing is literally what the Minneapolis Police Department trained and created policy for its officers to do?

Or that he could visibly, clearly breathe, as he was talking?

So they aren't charging him with a air choke (much more dangerous), but with a blood choke, which allows air to flow and people to talk, but cuts off blood (and thus oxygen) from the brain.

And the official autopsy found that he was dead because of the overdose plus police action:

"cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

If the pressure on the neck contributed to the death (IANAL, so idk how much it needs to contribute. Maybe it needs to be "absent this, he would have lived", or maybe its "his actions directly contributed to the death." I don't know.), then a conviction for depraved heart murder (he didn't seem to care if Floyd lived or died) is pretty easy, which is 3rd degree murder in Minnesota.

It wasn't a fuckimg blood choke!
Fucking hell!

He had his knee on his neck as a control measure so he can't move. It was heavy enough to keep him from moving. It was not a blood choke.

If you looked at the training manual you would know

It definitely was a blood choke. Also, why look at the training manual, when you can look at the picture of the actual knee on the actual neck?

So how do you know that the knee on George Floyd's neck was at the right angle, in the right spots, to be a blood choke?

We have really good pictures and video of it.

Also, it's possible that the cops were trained to use a blood choke (I haven't seen the training documents), which makes sense, they are usually safe, if not applied for 9 minutes like a crazy person.

 

[Rocinante]

So how do you know that the knee on George Floyd's neck was at the right angle, in the right spots, to be a blood choke?

It's pretty deep in the neck. It easily looks like he could be on the carotid