David Koch dead at 79

[ShieldWife]

Billionaire philanthropist and political activist David Koch just died at the age of 79. Because I know elsewhere on the net, this event will cause some nasty behavior, I hoped that we could discuss David Koch with a bit more decorum.

David Koch was known for his contributions to conservative politicians, though he was also quite a philanthropist who supported museums, the arts, and gave a great deal of money to medical research.

With regards to politics, though he is often regarded as being on the far right, it would be more to say that David Koch was a libertarian leaning moderate - he was pro-choice, supported same sex marriage and gay rights, wanted stem cell research, opposed the war on drugs, and was more of a dove on foreign policy. While he was certainly closer to the Republicans than the Democrats, Koch did support some Democratic candidates and he also had some major disagreements with Donald Trump - on the issues of protectionism and immigration for example.

In addition to the money he gave to various causes, one could also say that Koch Industries contributed to the world as well. Unlike so many other billionaires we have these days, the Koch’s money didn’t come from financial shenanigans, but because he ran a company that actually made stuff - paper, asphalt, chemicals, plastics, etc. In a sense, one might say that David Koch became rich by making us all a bit richer.

I had my differences in opinion with David Koch, but you can’t say that he didn’t have a noteworthy life or that many of his contributions weren’t positive. His passing deserves to be treated respectfully.

RIP David Koch

 

[Big Steve]

As with many Human beings with the means to influence the world, he'll leave a legacy. It may turn out to be a mixed one, with bad and good, but it can't be denied.

 

[Deleted member 1]

I think he was a civilised man who put serious effort into solving real problems within the context of his philosophy, and that he was attempting to do good, none should deny. RIP.

 

[ReeeFallin]

Perhaps with less big money influence we can return the tea party to its true roots and goals of returning true statesmen to government.

 

[f1onagher]

I have decidedly negative feelings towards the man, but the celebratory hoo hah I see over on other sites makes it hard to indulge. I don't like a number of his causes, but some people were legit comparing him to Osama Bin Laden. I honestly, legitimately, don't get it. Was it because he opposed Cap and Trade? I don't get the hate and I'm honestly scared to ask.

 

[Lightershoulders]

The man helped make politics about money.

I can't respect that. Maybe now that he is dead it will not be as popular among billionaires to fund politics.

 

[ShieldWife]

I don’t see any reasonable way that money can be removed from politics. Even if we banned all donations, then these big media corporations would be free to push their own agendas while poor people couldn’t even give a few dollars to a candidate that they like. Ban corporate news and you have state run media, a recipe for disaster.

All that we can do to counter money in politics is to try to have an engaged and informed public.

 

[Psyckosama]

My feelings on the issue.

All that we can do to counter money in politics is to try to have an engaged and informed public.

Democracy is doomed.

 

[ShieldWife]

Democracy is doomed.

Probably so.

 

[Psyckosama]

Probably so.

Yeah, the Media these days is designed specifically to make people stupid and pliable.

Fox News? Largely non-reality.

MSNBC? Just enough truth to mask the fact that they vomit a banal Neo-Liberal ideology and a constant stream of Identity Politics bullshit...

 

[Bacle]

The man helped make politics about money.

I can't respect that. Maybe now that he is dead it will not be as popular among billionaires to fund politics.

Money has been part of politics since before Babylon was built.

Not sure why you'd think America would be different.

 

[Lightershoulders]

Money has been part of politics since before Babylon was built.

Not sure why you'd think America would be different.

Never to this degree within this political format.

 

[Comrade Clod]

Well i'm not going to claim to be sorry about his death (to say I dislike how he worked with politics is an understatement) but I derive no pleasure from it either.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Probably so.

It’s always been doomed before. There is no fear it, just a grim conviction that people in our historical time who are moral and upright are required to defend its principles to the last dying breath even as we can be confident that it is irrevocably doomed. The Coming Age will be better, but few of us will live to see it. An educated Chinese would find themselves in the same place according to their own customs in the era of the Three Kingdoms.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

Never to this degree within this political format.

Oh?
We had money as one of the largest determinators of the franchise for a very long time. Then there was the whole Yellow Journalism thing and the era of the Robber Barons.

Money in US politics goes all the way back to the Founding and has been far worse at various times in the past than it is today.

 

[Lightershoulders]

Oh?
We had money as one of the largest determinators of the franchise for a very long time.

Again, not to this degree.

Then there was the whole Yellow Journalism thing

That was about the news outlets making money, not the owners influencing policies for themselves.

Yellow journalism was also part of what lead to the current state of news media we have today with news outlets being mouth pieces of political parties rather than unbiased sources of news.

Very much so a net negative.

and the era of the Robber Barons.

Which one?

When the term was first coined, it was because such a "Robber Baron" managed to ship by railroad at a fraction of the price as the shipping companies using the same method but requiring government dollars. He beat them just as any company should be able to beat out another in a capitalist market. His crime? It was accepting bribes from the other shipping companies to not ship on their routes.

Him engaging in influencing politics with money was the same as those shipping companies influencing politics with their services, and did not go nearly as far as the Kosh brothers.

The term Robber Barron was, for the most part, an unjust term to persecute those who managed to beat out their competitors and form (or nearly form) a monopoly, not because they had their fingers in politics.

Money in US politics goes all the way back to the Founding and has been far worse at various times in the past than it is today.

Examples? Because the above two aren't really.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Again, not to this degree.

I think @Emperor Tippy means to say that literally there were financial and/or property qualifications to even have the right to vote throughout most of history when there were elections.

 

[Lightershoulders]

I think @Emperor Tippy means to say that literally there were financial and/or property qualifications to even have the right to vote throughout most of history when there were elections.

Well, yeah that is true. And he would be totally right in that case.

But it is clear I am referring to the scale of politics being determined by money.

I should clarify on my end, I do not just think the Kosh brothers are guilty of using money to determine a parties politics. I am positive you can find such examples with the Democrats as well as independent parties

 

[Husky_Khan]

Actually I think the money thing is a bit overstated. We've had so-called 'establishment' candidates lose before already.

Donald Trump over Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and John Kasich
Barack Obama over Hilary Clinton.
Even in 2008 John McCain's primary campaign was considered dead and he came back to become the frontrunner over Mitt Romney and Huckabee.

Now money in campaign can be difficult, especially if your getting no attention like we can see right now with a lot of the DNC and (lol) other Republican candidates. But we've seen 'insurgent' candidates rise up before and swarm over into primary wins in recent history.

And in all honesty I actually don't think money playing a factor is worse now then in earlier periods of history. I mean we have progressed from Business Plots and episodes of Boardwalk Empire. If anything, the effects of huge amounts of money are partially mitigated by the fact that candidates like Obama or Trump can get free media by being "interesting" or "compelling" candidates and you can still get exposure through the internet and social media and podcasts and whatever. Not just running TV ads and mailings and canned debates.

 

[7 Gold Eye Heals the Wise]

Again, not to this degree.

How much more did Hillary spend to lose to DJT?