'Climate Change' and the coming 'Climate Lockdown'

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How on earth could taking someone's private property make the "weather better?"

Dimon claimed, "we simply are not getting the adequate investments fast enough for grid, solar, wind and pipeline initiatives."

"Polarization, paralysis and basic lack of analysis cannot keep us from addressing one of the most complex challenges of our time," Dimon said.
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Notice, he didn't answer the question. How does this help climate change? No idea, doesn't say.

I could speculate, that this would involve things like seizing polluting factories or office buildings that haven't been sold for decades and thus not up to current thermal insulation and energy efficiency standards. If that is the case then it would basically not affect 98% of ordinary individuals.

Of course, the more likely answer is that it would mean putting everyone in Judge Dredd style hab-blocks.
 
Megadeath said:
Cool. Cool cool cool. Nothing to do with anything I said though. A specific prediction was made. I pointed out that it wasn't borne out. That is all.
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>nothing
Nothing would imply all this stuff i've mentioned wasn't happening. Yet it is, and it is definitely being pushed. Surprisingly it's UK leading the push, but the point stands, some of their mainstream media talk about it.
 
mrttao said:
I looked up the post with the "prediction".
it has this disclaimer explicitly
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That's you misunderstanding. He's saying that "climate lockdown" won't necessarily happen, but whether it does will be a big political fight. I didn't comment on that aspect at all. It's also pretty arrogant of you to try and offer your own interpretation when the OP themselves already said:
Rocinante said:
I mean, idk what you're looking for here? Yeah I was wrong about a prediction I made two years ago?
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Marduk said:
>nothing
Nothing would imply all this stuff i've mentioned wasn't happening. Yet it is, and it is definitely being pushed. Surprisingly it's UK leading the push, but the point stands, some of their mainstream media talk about it.
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No, it doesn't imply that? It implies whether something sorta, kinda, vaguely like a "climate lockdown" being imposed in incredibly specific and small localities is largely irrelevant to the idea that climate lockdown will be something pushed in a big way by mainstream media. Which was the prediction and which isn't happening. Also, nothing you linked is anything I would call "mainstream media".
 
Megadeath said:
No, it doesn't imply that? It implies whether something sorta, kinda, vaguely like a "climate lockdown" being imposed in incredibly specific and small localities is largely irrelevant to the idea that climate lockdown will be something pushed in a big way by mainstream media. Which was the prediction and which isn't happening. Also, nothing you linked is anything I would call "mainstream media".
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Daily Mail - not mainstream media.
Guardian - not mainstream media.
Yeah, sure.
Globally recognizable city names - specific small localities.
We're clearly in iffy territory regarding how big is big media attention, but your insistence on just ignoring the not so insignificant even if smaller than expected scale of what was predicted is just open downplaying of the matter to make a point. He may have been off in scale and/or timing, but it's definitely not nothing either.
 
Marduk said:
Daily Mail - not mainstream media.
Guardian - not mainstream media.
Yeah, sure.
Globally recognizable city names - specific small localities.
We're clearly in iffy territory regarding how big is big media attention, but your insistence on just ignoring the not so insignificant even if smaller than expected scale of what was predicted is just open downplaying of the matter to make a point. He may have been off in scale and/or timing, but it's definitely not nothing either.
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The guardian ran a comic mocking the idea that what's been suggested is anything like a "climate lockdown". That's categorically different from pushing climate lockdown as a valid idea. Personally I wouldn't call the daily mail MSM in the first place, more sensationalist tabloid, but they also weren't particularly pushing the idea. As for the cities mentioned, the hardest pushing and most progressive timeline seems to be Oxford, saying that in nearly 20 years hopes to have improved zoning and infrastructure planning enough to implement it. Any talk of imminent forced lockdown is rather incongruous with what's actually been presented as evidence.

Also, my only point was that the prediction was incorrect. Since the prediction was inherently about the scale and timing, I would consider your final sentence as meaning we're in agreement. So, yay for that and not needing to discuss it further.
 
Megadeath said:
The guardian ran a comic mocking the idea that what's been suggested is anything like a "climate lockdown". That's categorically different from pushing climate lockdown as a valid idea. Personally I wouldn't call the daily mail MSM in the first place, more sensationalist tabloid, but they also weren't particularly pushing the idea. As for the cities mentioned, the hardest pushing and most progressive timeline seems to be Oxford, saying that in nearly 20 years hopes to have improved zoning and infrastructure planning enough to implement it. Any talk of imminent forced lockdown is rather incongruous with what's actually been presented as evidence.

Also, my only point was that the prediction was incorrect. Since the prediction was inherently about the scale and timing, I would consider your final sentence as meaning we're in agreement. So, yay for that and not needing to discuss it further.
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www.bbc.com

How '15-minute cities' will change the way we socialise

A new urban planning model will change the French capital – and could provide a template for how to create stronger local communities and make residents happier.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
www.theguardian.com

In praise of the ‘15-minute city’ – the mundane planning theory terrifying conspiracists | Oliver Wainwright

The frightening prospect of greener, people-friendly streets has sent the online right – and Tory MPs – into a tailspin, says Guardian architecture critic Oliver Wainwright
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
If your argument is "it doesn't count because they are being more gradual and deceptive with it than expected", well, that's just your opinion.
Also, not in 20 years, Birmingham has roads being blocked on account of this bullshit now.
This also has other examples shown.


Secondly, his prediction says nothing about imminent and forced lockdowns, just that mainstream media will be propagandizing for such ideas, so congratulations on getting caught pulling classic journo tricks.
Obviously they aren't going to advertise this kind of policy as imminent forced lockdowns, that would be idiotic of them and i think by now we should be expecting at least some minimal level of sneaky shitfuckery from the social engineers.
 
Marduk said:
www.bbc.com

How '15-minute cities' will change the way we socialise

A new urban planning model will change the French capital – and could provide a template for how to create stronger local communities and make residents happier.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
www.theguardian.com

In praise of the ‘15-minute city’ – the mundane planning theory terrifying conspiracists | Oliver Wainwright

The frightening prospect of greener, people-friendly streets has sent the online right – and Tory MPs – into a tailspin, says Guardian architecture critic Oliver Wainwright
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
If your argument is "it doesn't count because they are being more gradual and deceptive with it than expected", well, that's just your opinion.
Also, not in 20 years, Birmingham has roads being blocked on account of this bullshit now.
This also has other examples shown.


Secondly, his prediction says nothing about imminent and forced lockdowns, just that mainstream media will be propagandizing for such ideas, so congratulations on getting caught pulling classic journo tricks.
Obviously they aren't going to advertise this kind of policy as imminent forced lockdowns, that would be idiotic of them and i think by now we should be expecting at least some minimal level of sneaky shitfuckery from the social engineers.
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Uh huh... The initial article says “Under a ‘climate lockdown,’ governments would limit private-vehicle use, ban consumption of red meat, and impose extreme energy-saving measures, while fossil-fuel companies would have to stop drilling,” What we actually have is some enforced local traffic only zones. But sure, if we pretend that those are the same thing then yes I guess that most (actually, only a couple) mainstream media are pushing (or at least, have a handful of positive articles on) climate lockdown.

As for the idea "Oh, it is really the same, this is just the tip of the iceberg, they don't say what they really want, etc." That still means they are not pushing for the other thing, your mind reading assumptions about what they'd really like to push for not withstanding. It's just an even more tenuous version of the slippery slope argument. "If zoning and infrastructure are allowed to make local living too convenient, we'll all end up eating bugs!" feels less like a logical progression and more like something the crazy homeless people say.
 
Megadeath said:
As for the idea "Oh, it is really the same, this is just the tip of the iceberg, they don't say what they really want, etc." That still means they are not pushing for the other thing, your mind reading assumptions about what they'd really like to push for not withstanding. It's just an even more tenuous version of the slippery slope argument. "If zoning and infrastructure are allowed to make local living too convenient, we'll all end up eating bugs!" feels less like a logical progression and more like something the crazy homeless people say.
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Um.

I'm pretty sure they're trying to make local living the only option, or making all other options much more inconvenient, with nothing they do making anything more convenient. (Town Planning, man, not even once.)


Also, the same groups are pushing the bugs as the "15 minute city", so linking them together isn't too strange. Even if it does sound nuts.



Sure, it's not that far gone right now. But, that doesn't mean they won't ramp it up.



(So, I think I'm centerist here. It's a little weird, that feeling.)
 
Simonbob said:
I'm pretty sure they're trying to make local living the only option, or making all other options much more inconvenient, with nothing they do making anything more convenient. (Town Planning, man, not even once.)


Also, the same groups are pushing the bugs as the "15 minute city", so linking them together isn't too strange. Even if it does sound nuts.
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Yeah, when they have done the 15 minute thing so far, it's just meant putting blockades on the roads to prevent vehicle travel, not actually changing the layout or zoning structure. Maybe that part is an ideal for the future, but it's not happened. In an abstract way I can really see the appeal of having everything I need within a few minutes walk, but I also view it as fairly unrealistic unless we want to have a population density that is ~x3 higher than it is now in most areas. The 15 minute thing comes mainly from Europe, where they already have the "high street" of corner shops and super-dense urban housing, with row-houses that lack yards and the like. Even there people are extremely skeptical of it working as advertised.
 
In my home town, a lot of people travel for work. The offices are in one part of the city, what (light) industry we have is in other parts. (Mostly, a smaller town, 90+ minutes drive away.)


There's not much living space 15 minutes from working areas. It'll only work for cafes and the like, not much else, and expensive parts of town? When your coffee has to be 2-3 times as much so workers can live close enough, with crazy rents?


Yeah, it's another dumb idea.
 
Megadeath said:
Uh huh... The initial article says “Under a ‘climate lockdown,’ governments would limit private-vehicle use, ban consumption of red meat, and impose extreme energy-saving measures, while fossil-fuel companies would have to stop drilling,” What we actually have is some enforced local traffic only zones. But sure, if we pretend that those are the same thing then yes I guess that most (actually, only a couple) mainstream media are pushing (or at least, have a handful of positive articles on) climate lockdown.

As for the idea "Oh, it is really the same, this is just the tip of the iceberg, they don't say what they really want, etc." That still means they are not pushing for the other thing, your mind reading assumptions about what they'd really like to push for not withstanding. It's just an even more tenuous version of the slippery slope argument. "If zoning and infrastructure are allowed to make local living too convenient, we'll all end up eating bugs!" feels less like a logical progression and more like something the crazy homeless people say.
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facepalm.
just... facepalm.

the article did not specify a date for when govts would
limit private-vehicle use, ban consumption of red meat, and impose extreme energy-saving measures, while fossil-fuel companies would have to stop drilling,
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It only specified that this is what they explicitly stated they want in the world economic forum. A place where the world's richest and most powerful people gather to discuss international policy.

Rocinante predicted 2 years ago that
Most mainstream media will be pushing this before too long. Give it a year or two, if that.
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And he was absolutely right.
Pushing does not mean "explicitly tell you the end goal".
Advocating for partial implementation is absolutely pushing it.

they are pushing the 15 minute cities. they are pushing the natural gas bans. they are pushing no meat, and so on.
And fossil fuel companies did stop drilling thanks to bullshit like bidan's ban.

Taking clear steps towards an explicitly stated goal is not "slippery slope".

Also, the slippery slope is a proven fact, not a fallacy.
Also to begin with the claim of the fallacy was never "all slippery slope arguments are fallacious" but "this person is making a fallacious slippery slope argument where he is making mental leaps between unrelated items"
 
Marduk said:
Why would they talk about it considering how inherently unpopular such idea is to at least 3/4 of the voter base?
The media aimed at more friendly audience absolutely do talk about it:
www.greenmatters.com

Will Climate Lockdowns Be Necessary to Fight the Climate Crisis?

At the beginning of COVID-19, lockdowns were necessary to fight the deadly virus. To lower emissions, another type of lockdown might need to be used: Climate lockdowns.
www.greenmatters.com www.greenmatters.com
Secondly, if you haven't noticed, more moderate and gradual implementation of such policy is already being done on mass scale in UK, raising certain controversy:
www.carwow.co.uk

What are 15-minute cities and why are they controversial?

The idea behind 15-minute cities is simple; their application is anything but
www.carwow.co.uk www.carwow.co.uk

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

Traffic filters will divide city into six "15 minute" neighbourhoods

Traffic filters will divide city into six "15 minute" neighbourhoods, said the county's highways councillor.
www.oxfordmail.co.uk www.oxfordmail.co.uk

www.localgov.co.uk

Oxford hit by wave of protests over '15-minute city' backlash | LocalGov

Approximately 2,000 people took part in demonstrations against Oxford's '15 minute neighbourhoods' plan, with protests and counter protests on Saturday.
www.localgov.co.uk www.localgov.co.uk
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By now people should have realized they voting decides nothing and if it did it would be banned.
This same situation can be applied to mass migration/border security and a dozen other issues we discuss on here.
:cool:
 
Agent23 said:
By now people should have realized they voting decides nothing and if it did it would be banned.
This same situation can be applied to mass migration/border security and a dozen other issues we discuss on here.
:cool:
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I can only speak for myself in that I am leaning that way, at least in terms of the current establishment and corrupt system, but am desperately hoping it doesn’t come to that and that we’ll see an attack of common sense.

I have my doubts.
 
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