The scrawny kid who has a solid left hook can still break your nose and black your eye before he goes down. Underestimating your enemy is a seriously bad strategy.....As for the first posy my point wasn't that they are currently top dawg but that they have a very good reason for such arrogance. Because in reality they very much have been a seriously powerful nation for most of recorded history. Respecting an understanding that fact isn't a bad thing in my opinion
China ChiCom News Thread
- Thread starter LordsFire
- Start date
Understand and acknowledging their history is fine, but understanding and acknowledging current reality is another matter entirely and is only what matters in this context. They refuse the latter out of arrogance of the past.
Fair enough I don't necessarily disagree but the context of history should never be ignored.
Oh, I'm acknowledging their history, especially as it's mostly why they're so arrogant and stupid today.
As someone who was accidentally pinged before....... It is quite painful. You feel the Soundwaves pass through your body.
You also have to understand that a fight with them isn't going to be a cakewalk. Now I have no doubt that we(America) would win the fight but we will have to actually try. It wouldn't be say rolling Iraq in a few months or killing the Vietnamese until we got bored.
To be honest, the only reason why China hasn't been bitchslapped already by other nations around them is because a) America would get pissy for reasons (and even then I don't think it'd stop some countries), and b) nuclear deterrent.
A lot of what China says they have and what they actually have are two different things, and while I'm not on the "America, fuck yeah!" train like a lot of members, I do recognize that China wouldn't last as long as you think they would in such a conflict. They're a paper tiger at best.
If they actually managed to summon up the courage to commit to a fight without running like a bitch. There are a multitude of neighbors who'll not hesitate to help burn China down.
The Chinese history we acknowledge and know personally is Chinese fleets regularly harassing our lowland cousins. Raiding and demanding tribute in goods and slaves. China is the Great Enemy in our collective history. The Mongols were an improvement that was actually respected and welcomed.
Ses that's where our disagreement stems from,I don't believe that China is what they think they are but I do believe they are a serious power. We're all nerds here in my opinion the PRC is basically Cardassia and the US is the UFP. The UFP of they decided to really throw down would beat the Cardassians. Yet doing so would be painful and require at least a bit of effort but we will likley have a definitive answer for this question within the decade.
An anemic version of Cardassia, yeah.
I know people joke and are concerned that the USM is going woke (well, it is), but China's armed forces literally prioritise learning Communist theory (in a book) over actual training.
Combine that with their hardware failures, flawed copies of Western tech, and their kit being several generations behind in terms of pretty much everything... Yeah, they're a threat, but they're not as much of a threat as you believe, I think.
Wargamer08
Well-known member
They are however, slowly for sure, getting better. The USM is not. The latest joint chief is the one who pushed the racial equity in pilots nonsense.
They are insitinionally incapable of surpassing the USM.
Due to the fact that we have more experience and know how well our stuff works, add in we are technologically more advanced.
And as for the woke stuff.
As I have pointed out numerous times.
That only truly effects the higher levels.
The actual fighting force training and the like?
They are the ones that will win the war, because the generals that sucj get reppced by lower ranks if they are not doing a good job in the time of war.
And u like China, we do not have a political CCP officer standing next to our officers to make sure it fits the current CCP guidelines.
Like the Chinese have...
Due to the fact that we have more experience and know how well our stuff works, add in we are technologically more advanced.
And as for the woke stuff.
As I have pointed out numerous times.
That only truly effects the higher levels.
The actual fighting force training and the like?
They are the ones that will win the war, because the generals that sucj get reppced by lower ranks if they are not doing a good job in the time of war.
And u like China, we do not have a political CCP officer standing next to our officers to make sure it fits the current CCP guidelines.
Like the Chinese have...
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
...What on earth makes you think the Chinese military is getting better?
Wargamer08
Well-known member
It has more modern planes. More advanced missiles. Ships that would not be out of place a couple decades ago.
Would I consider them good? Not particularly, but they are closing the gap. Two decades ago their missiles and jets were so bad they would have been a larger contemporary to Iraq. Now? They have closed at least two technical generations.
China has an enormous amount of work to still do to close on US or even EU military technical ability. But they're putting in the effort.
It's like this, when western powers cut experienced white pilots for equity reasons, China is there to hire them as trainers. Western military contractors looking to cut costs? China steps in. To the point that some US major contractors have stated that they cannot supply the US military without Chinese contributions.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Yes, and the US is getting better planes, missiles, and ships too.
China cannot build their advanced hardware without US-designed and/or built parts, and what we provide is a lot harder to replace than what they provide.
The reason I'm skeptical of them getting better, is because there has been no demonstration of capability or competence in actual war on their part.
Corruption in the US military-industrial complex generally means 'we paid way more for that than we should have,' but the equipment will still be top shelf.
Corruption in the Chinese military-industrial complex is 'our Aircraft carrier still can't reliably launch aircraft, our rifles are keyholing at ten yards, and our submarines accidentally kill their crews.'
I'll grant that they expanded in capacity and almost certainly capability from the 1980's to the 2010s, if for nothing else due to having enormous amounts of money to throw around, but their economy is slowing down, probably actually shrinking (though it's bloody hard to tell past all the lies), and they can't just fire-hose money at the problem anymore.
They have all the institutional culture problems that every other communist army has, plus the arrogance of Chinese elitism on top of that. I don't think they're actually improving anymore.
Typhonis
Well-known member
How much of their new better stuff is actually new and better? Look at Russia! They had new and better weapons as well and how much good did they do them in Ukraine? Where are the battalions of T-14s to crush Ukranian resistance? Where are the advanced attack helicopters to smite Ukranian tanks.
Why did we not see a Day 1 repeat of the Day 1 slaughter of the Gulf War when Russian aviation kicked the stuffing out of Ukraine's command and control mechanism?
Why did we not see a Day 1 repeat of the Day 1 slaughter of the Gulf War when Russian aviation kicked the stuffing out of Ukraine's command and control mechanism?
Honestly we wont know how bad the chinese military is until it fights.
But considering how communist countries typicially under perform in war, the shear amount of corruption in China, and the fact that the current leader has purged anyone who threatens his power or even just disagrees with him. I don't think it would do well. And that's discounting how they pretty much poisoned a good chunk of their arable land and cant feed themselves any more and how their enemies would just instantly cut them off from international trade if china ever got froggy.
That said the west is currently controlled by incompetent idiots so there is a possibility they can win just on that alone.
Officially Xi purged 4 million officials in his power grab, or Anti-corruption campaign as he euphemistically calls them. Including every one of the Officer Corps above Lieutenant. The army backed the wrong faction. Their officers are undertrained, every combat encounter in UN peacekeeper actions has had the Chinese soldiers running for the nearest vehicle and flooring it. Abandoning their wounded and stragglers. Like most communist armies they are very officer heavy, with almost non-existent NCOs. Everything must go through the commanding general at base and his decisions must be approved by Xi's appointed political officers. Not helped that there are political officers at every level who must approve all communications.
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I think we will see how they do once they fight but yeah your right and its unlikely they will do well.
Typhonis
Well-known member
Also.....once Xi leaves this mortal coil things will get 'interesting.'