China ChiCom News Thread

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Actually it's not, sociopathic would be selling out to the Chinese in exchange for my own personal benefit. Sociopaths only care about themselves. But humans can't really care about everyone in the world our empathy is tribalistic. So for me I consider Christians to be my people. Thus I care about the wellbeing of Christians above others. All things being equal I'll support Christians before others, and the closer someone is to being of the right faith the more "worth" that I'd give them.

You're right that it fails the textbook definition of sociopathy, however, it still sounds heartless, which is what the common use of the word has evolved to.

More importantly, you're failing at Christian theology here. God's Love is not restricted to those who call him Lord, and if you strive to be like Christ, you strive to have a similar Love. Obviously in our limitations, we cannot personally attend to each individual as God can, but that is still the principle, and that principle should guide our attitude and actions.
 

Yinko

Well-known member
The CCP has kept the Falun Gong members (who are more of a blend of Christianity and Buddhism if I recall correctly) in prison the entire time, pulling one out from time to time to use as fresh organs for transplantation. They do the same thing with lifers and political prisoners. Don't even have to be a high ranking party member to benefit, anyone with the cash can go to China and they'll keep popping organs into you till something sticks.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
The CCP has kept the Falun Gong members (who are more of a blend of Christianity and Buddhism if I recall correctly) in prison the entire time, pulling one out from time to time to use as fresh organs for transplantation. They do the same thing with lifers and political prisoners. Don't even have to be a high ranking party member to benefit, anyone with the cash can go to China and they'll keep popping organs into you till something sticks.

How much does this cost?
 

VicSage

Carpenter, Cobbler, Chirugeon, Dataminer.
How much does this cost?
The list I found, admittedly from a news site I've never heard of so I'm not sure of how trustworthy it is, has the various organs at between 8-40,000 dollars (converted from yuan), I'd average them at about 18k or so.
Chinese Regime Publicly Prices Human Organs to Normalize What Has Partly Been Black Market Trade: Experts - ToysMatrix
So the Chinks are starting to really piss me off.
It's Chinx. Much more inclusive.
 

Yinko

Well-known member

I'm suspicious of the "blue skies for the Olympics" motivation. Sure, this could be a Kim family style power move, where they're doing whatever they want because they can, but it seems more likely to me that their goal is the industrial shut-down. Probably because they want to shift industry and population over to Western China, or use this as an opportunity to force modernization of existing plants so as to reduce pollution in Beijing. Not for any environmental reason, but because the senior officials all live there and may be kind of sick of how bad it is.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
I'm suspicious of the "blue skies for the Olympics" motivation. Sure, this could be a Kim family style power move, where they're doing whatever they want because they can, but it seems more likely to me that their goal is the industrial shut-down. Probably because they want to shift industry and population over to Western China, or use this as an opportunity to force modernization of existing plants so as to reduce pollution in Beijing. Not for any environmental reason, but because the senior officials all live there and may be kind of sick of how bad it is.

Also, it helps relieve their problems with power outages.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
I'm suspicious of the "blue skies for the Olympics" motivation. Sure, this could be a Kim family style power move, where they're doing whatever they want because they can, but it seems more likely to me that their goal is the industrial shut-down. Probably because they want to shift industry and population over to Western China, or use this as an opportunity to force modernization of existing plants so as to reduce pollution in Beijing. Not for any environmental reason, but because the senior officials all live there and may be kind of sick of how bad it is.

I personally think it's an attempt to try and handle their electricity crisis ...
 

Yinko

Well-known member
I personally think it's an attempt to try and handle their electricity crisis ...
It's possible. I hadn't heard about that specific crisis, but they have so many going on concurrently that this move could potentially alleviate that it's hard to nail down one as being the primary motivation.

Energy shortages? Diversify industry locations.
98% of all Han Chinese live east of the Heihe-Tengchong line? Move their jobs west of it.
North-Eastern China is water starved while South-Eastern China is flooding? Move people and industry out of the North.
Too many companies with too much influence? Bankrupt them and then make them public corporations.

Any of these could be a massive boon towards the goal of long-term homogeneity, political/economic consolidation, and utmost stability. ...Of course, that assumes that their government is competent enough to pull all this off, and just as there is a direct correlation between communism and bureaucracy, there is an inverse correlation between bureaucracy and efficiency.
 
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liberty90

Evil Neoliberal Cat
Also, it helps relieve their problems with power outages.

That is mostly solved. About two/three months ago there were problems with regulated prices of electricity making burning coal for electricity (price of coal was not as strongly regulated, and there was less supply and higher prices lately) loss-making at current prices. Government intervened to increase coal mining already, in temporary reversal of "net 0 carbon emissions in 2060" policies.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
Any of these could be a massive boon towards the goal of long-term homogeneity, political/economic consolidation, and utmost stability. ...Of course, that assumes that their government is competent enough to pull all this off, and just as there is a direct correlation between communism and bureaucracy, there is an inverse correlation between bureaucracy and efficiency.

Admittedly this is tangential, but it depends on the context. Medicare in the States is ran better than essentially all private healthcare providers, for example.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
You're right that it fails the textbook definition of sociopathy, however, it still sounds heartless, which is what the common use of the word has evolved to.

More importantly, you're failing at Christian theology here. God's Love is not restricted to those who call him Lord, and if you strive to be like Christ, you strive to have a similar Love. Obviously in our limitations, we cannot personally attend to each individual as God can, but that is still the principle, and that principle should guide our attitude and actions.
God's love is only actually felt by Christians since they are saved and taken into heaven. So all Christians no matter their race or nationality are our brothers.

So how do you feel about letting in refugees from other nations into your country? The Christian thing to do is to let them in if they are your brother. I have no problem letting in Christian refugees, but if you interpret scripture to say that you should treat EVERYONE like a Christian you should probably support letting in all the refugees from the middle east.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
God's love is only actually felt by Christians since they are saved and taken into heaven. So all Christians no matter their race or nationality are our brothers.

So how do you feel about letting in refugees from other nations into your country? The Christian thing to do is to let them in if they are your brother. I have no problem letting in Christian refugees, but if you interpret scripture to say that you should treat EVERYONE like a Christian you should probably support letting in all the refugees from the middle east.

I did not say that scripture claims you should treat everyone like a Christian. That explicitly is not the case.

I think Christian refugees should be given priority when they're fleeing from places that subject them to religious persecution. I also think that Buddhist refugees should be given priority when fleeing from religious persecution. Unsurprisingly, both groups are primarily persecuted by muslims.

I would be far more willing, however, to open my personal home to a fellow Christian, and if I was setting policy with a limited capacity between buddhists and Christians, I'd give Christians priority for a variety of reasons, both secular and religious.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
I did not say that scripture claims you should treat everyone like a Christian. That explicitly is not the case.

I think Christian refugees should be given priority when they're fleeing from places that subject them to religious persecution. I also think that Buddhist refugees should be given priority when fleeing from religious persecution. Unsurprisingly, both groups are primarily persecuted by muslims.

I would be far more willing, however, to open my personal home to a fellow Christian, and if I was setting policy with a limited capacity between buddhists and Christians, I'd give Christians priority for a variety of reasons, both secular and religious.
Ok we agree on that. I just see the nation as an extension of the home only it’s the collective ownership of all the citizens unless it’s a monarchy then it’s the kings giant house.
 

Cherico

Well-known member

liberty90

Evil Neoliberal Cat
I hope that people are aware how biased this thread can be. To be clear, it's not like information provided here is in any way untrue. It's just that almost everybody here focus only on bad news, while ignoring positive developments. Only electricity shortage is mentioned for example, and if the Chinese gov manage to solve the issue four months later, almost nobody mentions it again. In effect, you may be surprised if the Chinese regime survives far longer than you think.

Even if you have decent reason to consider China as your enemy, I think that many people here have a tendency to fall into a trap of underestimating your enemies. The fall of Chinese regime and economy was expected by many "any day now" since decades.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
I hope that people are aware how biased this thread can be. To be clear, it's not like information provided here is in any way untrue. It's just that almost everybody here focus only on bad news, while ignoring positive developments. Only electricity shortage is mentioned for example, and if the Chinese gov manage to solve the issue four months later, almost nobody mentions it again. In effect, you may be surprised if the Chinese regime survives far longer than you think.

Even if you have decent reason to consider China as your enemy, I think that many people here have a tendency to fall into a trap of underestimating your enemies. The fall of Chinese regime and economy was expected by many "any day now" since decades.

There's always the possibility that people predicting collapse will be wrong; collapses in major nations very much tend to be slowly getting closer, until they abruptly all happen at once.

The thing with China (and other communist and authoritarian states) though, is that even if specific problems are dealt with, the root cause of those problems are dealt with. And as with every other communist nation, the root problems are as follows:

1. The rejection of Truth and reality in favor of communist dogma. You must believe when the party says there are five lights, instead of your lying eyes.
2. Mass, gross, insane corruption. This is sabotaging and degrading every single part of society.

On top of that, China has to deal with the problem of their population collapse, being geographically bottled up, and having made every single neighbor they have hostile. It's not a good place to be, and there is no sign that china is interested in changing course on any of these key factors pushing them towards collapse, instead of doubling down.

While anybody who predicts specific dates is likely to be proven wrong, unless China undergoes fundamental reforms, ideally getting rid of the CCP altogether, it will eventually implode.

Sure, they're still dangerous in the meanwhile, but they're also more fragile than people would like to think. Unlike the 1940's, where the Soviet Union could survive by continually retreating before the Wehrmacht until winter and over-extended supply lines stalemated the Germans, if China starts any war that the US decides to join in on, there's only one factor that determines whether or not it emerges intact as a nation.

Can they retain control over their domestic airspace?

That they can't win an offensive war just about goes without saying. They lack the navy to project anywhere past Taiwan, and all their ground invasion targets have enormous defensive advantages. Any offensive force that fights both the nation they're pitted against, and a US coalition, is guaranteed to be defeated barring only obscene gross incompetence on the part of coalition flag officers.

But if their air force is shot down, and their surface-to-air defenses are successfully taken out (something for which advanced long-range stealthy missiles have been designed)?

Then US and allied air power will be able to start destroying Chinese military and industrial infrastructure at will. Attempting a land invasion would be a stupid and nigh-suicidal waste of lives and money, but when you can just bomb out every military base, power plant, rail line, and road, you don't need to invade. You can just wait for them to be forced to surrender.

Now, it's possible that the Chinese actually have beefy enough AA defenses to keep control of their own airspace, but the longer things go on, and shipping embargo chokes them out, the more likely that is to get ground away to nothing.

And if the CCP starts and loses a war, odds are damned good that they'll not be able to stay in power even if they successfully sue for peace before their infrastructure is bombed out.


China is, practically speaking, probably at the height of the power it will ever have as a communist nation. The 'gray zone' tactics it's using are where it is strongest against the US and other western powers, and as long as it can keep conflict in that area, especially with a Democrat in the White House, the longer it will be able to keep its bully-boy position in Eastern Asia. But that could implode at any time simply due to the fundamentally unsound nature of so many of their economic sectors.
 

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