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China ChiCom News Thread

Husky_Khan

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Alathon

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lol Imagine being Chinese...

They banned Ultraman among other anime and live action shows.

I've enjoyed anime for most of my life. Yet when I look back on the media I was consuming, I cannot help but remember the constant violence, promiscuity, and creepy shit like Princess Fatora's twelve-year-old concubine in El Hazard. Not to mention the relative lack of stoicism and moral virtue. There were exceptions, but they were just that -- exceptional. Most anime and western cartoons too were garbage at best, and some of it was hella suspect. I do not think it accidental that American weebs became a recruiting pool for the trans-cult.

After observing how America and South Korea have gone (and Japan to a lesser degree), should we really be mocking China for driving this sort of popular entertainment media underground? I mean.. they're gonna replace it with media compliant with CCP propaganda, but would that genuinely, honestly, be worse?
 

Marduk

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I've enjoyed anime for most of my life. Yet when I look back on the media I was consuming, I cannot help but remember the constant violence, promiscuity, and creepy shit like Princess Fatora's twelve-year-old concubine in El Hazard.
In hindsight and from a results based perspective, is it necessarily a bad thing?
Should children be raised in a sanitized world, naive to the existence, nature and their own reactions to such things? That goes double for boys, who are both the target audience for this stuff and are naturally drawn to it, for good reasons.

In the end, its the demographics who are the biggest on playing violent videogames and watching unPC anime who populate the nightmares of progressive activists (gamergate, chans and the like), not the people who live insulated from all these things even in their virtual form, which these activists hate too, except for some specific kinds of weird shit.

Makes me wonder if that stuff was not so common and practically unavoidable, the most leftist of countries would be even closer to a Demolition Man style culture than they are now.
Not to mention the relative lack of stoicism and moral virtue. There were exceptions, but they were just that -- exceptional. Most anime and western cartoons too were garbage at best, and some of it was hella suspect. I do not think it accidental that American weebs became a recruiting pool for the trans-cult.
It loves targeting social outcasts/outsiders, like any cult really, so of course there is a massive crossover there.
After observing how America and South Korea have gone (and Japan to a lesser degree), should we really be mocking China for driving this sort of popular entertainment media underground? I mean.. they're gonna replace it with media compliant with CCP propaganda, but would that genuinely, honestly, be worse?
CCP has its own axe to grind here. The irony is that people thought North Korea will take an example from China and become more like it. Meanwhile the opposite has happened - Chinese state preferred and produced propaganda is struggling to compete with foreign entertainment and independent videogames, so the only way they have to indoctrinate their youth with the stuff they have painstakingly made is to forcibly remove the alternatives, so that they will entertain themselves with the proper propaganda materials out of lack of competition if nothing else.

Of course in the west a symmetrical scenario would unfold out of such measures, because there, the competition begging for such a helping hand are the likes of CNN, Hollywood, and various "studies" professors, who would love to push their stuff instead, and we all know what that is.
 

Terthna

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I've enjoyed anime for most of my life. Yet when I look back on the media I was consuming, I cannot help but remember the constant violence, promiscuity, and creepy shit like Princess Fatora's twelve-year-old concubine in El Hazard. Not to mention the relative lack of stoicism and moral virtue. There were exceptions, but they were just that -- exceptional. Most anime and western cartoons too were garbage at best, and some of it was hella suspect. I do not think it accidental that American weebs became a recruiting pool for the trans-cult.

After observing how America and South Korea have gone (and Japan to a lesser degree), should we really be mocking China for driving this sort of popular entertainment media underground? I mean.. they're gonna replace it with media compliant with CCP propaganda, but would that genuinely, honestly, be worse?
If you're honestly asking yourself that question, you're insane. Whatever your feelings are about anime and Japanese culture; what the CCP pushes on its citizens is demonstrably worse by several orders of magnitude. Besides; I've watched El-Hazard dozens of times (it's my favorite anime; period) and Alielle Relryle is not twelve.

As for any lack of "stoicism and moral virtue"; the former has to do with the fact that it's a relatively obscure western philosophical ideology, that incidentally hadn't experienced its latest revival until after El-Hazard was made. Moral virtue, meanwhile, is something that nobody ever agrees on fully; and is thus utterly irrelevant as a criticism.

Also, screw off with that whole "American weebs are a recruiting ground for trans-cultists" garbage. American culture period has been a breeding ground for that shit for decades; don't go blaming sub-cultures for something that's far bigger than any of them.
 

Terthna

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@Terthna Stoicism has been a thing since the Ancient Greeks dude.

As for American Weebs, I honestly don't know WTH that is.
Greek stoicism died in the 4th century, after Christianity was adopted as the state religion of the Roman Empire. Its had several revivals since; the most recent being contemporary stoicism, which really only became a thing in 1996 with the rise of the internet.
 

Yinko

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Interview

Link is to a pretty interesting interview with one of the exiled Chinese billionairs. He figured he was a deadman anyway, so he wrote a tell-all book about all the dirty secrets he had on the CCP higher-ups. Then, the day before the book launch, he gets a call from his ex-wife (who had been dissapeared and though dead four years earlier) telling him not to publish or he and his son will die.
 

Alathon

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In hindsight and from a results based perspective, is it necessarily a bad thing?
Should children be raised in a sanitized world, naive to the existence, nature and their own reactions to such things? That goes double for boys, who are both the target audience for this stuff and are naturally drawn to it, for good reasons.
The concern about a "sanitized world" is a straw-man argument. I have not suggested any such thing, rather, I have suggested that consuming media full of gratuitous violence, promiscuity, and sleaze, could in fact be bad ideas. There is plenty of literature and even modern media that includes violence and sexuality without doing so in a perverse way.

In the end, its the demographics who are the biggest on playing violent videogames and watching unPC anime who populate the nightmares of progressive activists (gamergate, chans and the like), not the people who live insulated from all these things even in their virtual form, which these activists hate too, except for some specific kinds of weird shit.

Makes me wonder if that stuff was not so common and practically unavoidable, the most leftist of countries would be even closer to a Demolition Man style culture than they are now.
It does not matter in the slightest how progressive activists feel about us. It matters whether we provide credible opposition. We have not.

CCP has its own axe to grind here. The irony is that people thought North Korea will take an example from China and become more like it. Meanwhile the opposite has happened - Chinese state preferred and produced propaganda is struggling to compete with foreign entertainment and independent videogames, so the only way they have to indoctrinate their youth with the stuff they have painstakingly made is to forcibly remove the alternatives, so that they will entertain themselves with the proper propaganda materials out of lack of competition if nothing else.

Of course in the west a symmetrical scenario would unfold out of such measures, because there, the competition begging for such a helping hand are the likes of CNN, Hollywood, and various "studies" professors, who would love to push their stuff instead, and we all know what that is.
If they enrich their youth with some sort of neo-Confucian collectivism, something like "obey the state, honor your ancestors, earn your place in society by working hard and fighting for your nation" it would be vastly superior to the garbage western media is feeding kids. It would be nice if America were not lined up to be their Great Satan, but we did kinda earn that privilege through decades of transgressing against other states sovereignty.
 

Marduk

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The concern about a "sanitized world" is a straw-man argument. I have not suggested any such thing, rather, I have suggested that consuming media full of gratuitous violence, promiscuity, and sleaze, could in fact be bad ideas. There is plenty of literature and even modern media that includes violence and sexuality without doing so in a perverse way.
And they have access to those too. If they are to learn to see cultural quality and value, welp, they have to learn that by filtering through all that, because any alternative option will involve someone doing their own filtering through their own, far more extensive preferences.
It does not matter in the slightest how progressive activists feel about us. It matters whether we provide credible opposition. We have not.
Credible to who exactly? If its credible enough for the enemy to note it, that's at least something. And if its doing a fairly effective job of competing with the other side's propaganda, that's even better.
If they enrich their youth with some sort of neo-Confucian collectivism, something like "obey the state, honor your ancestors, earn your place in society by working hard and fighting for your nation" it would be vastly superior to the garbage western media is feeding kids.
That's a very rosy eyed view of it. It's more plain ol' communism in its most stereotypical totalitarian form than anything Confucian. Obey the state, and by state they mean the party, if the ancestors or nation or anyone else go against the party, they have to go down, because the party is everything. Or in other words, a lean, mean version of what the far left anywhere wants, with none of the useful idiot addons, distractions, deceptions or extra steps.
It would be nice if America were not lined up to be their Great Satan, but we did kinda earn that privilege through decades of transgressing against other states sovereignty.
No reason to copy the left in their chest beating. America is lined up in their sights because there is very little room at the top that's nearly impossible to share, there can be only one hegemon, and they want that room, just like every other power who's not culturally self-hating, which means America has to be pushed down. We already see that none of the competing powers have even a bit of hesitation about "transgressing against other states sovereignty" outside of the practical and pragmatic cost-benefit analysis of it.
 
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Alathon

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If you're honestly asking yourself that question, you're insane. Whatever your feelings are about anime and Japanese culture; what the CCP pushes on its citizens is demonstrably worse by several orders of magnitude. Besides; I've watched El-Hazard dozens of times (it's my favorite anime; period) and Alielle Relryle is not twelve.

As for any lack of "stoicism and moral virtue"; the former has to do with the fact that it's a relatively obscure western philosophical ideology, that incidentally hadn't experienced its latest revival until after El-Hazard was made. Moral virtue, meanwhile, is something that nobody ever agrees on fully; and is thus utterly irrelevant as a criticism.

Also, screw off with that whole "American weebs are a recruiting ground for trans-cultists" garbage. American culture period has been a breeding ground for that shit for decades; don't go blaming sub-cultures for something that's far bigger than any of them.
If you want to make a case that people who were already vulnerable gravitated toward stuff like anime, I'd be open to it, but I will not pretend weebs aren't a prime recruiting ground. I've seen too much of it, both among fanfic communities I used to hang with, and more recently among family.

Aielle wasn't drawn like she was twelve but I'm pretty sure she said she was twelve. My tapes are long gone or I'd post a screenshot.

Stoicism as a behavioral principle (not an ideology) was plenty common among Western nations until recently. "Stiff upper lip" ring a bell?

Moral virtue is relevant in all situations, but if you don't want to hear it, w/e.

As for the CCP's propaganda, what are they pushing that you believe is "orders of magnitude worse" than ultraviolence and promiscuity?
 

prinCZess

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Absolutely haram.
They explicitly name drop the character Kaga from Azur Lane
Is...Is the Chinese China Music and Digital Association just doing the 'Your waifu is shiiiit!' meme in reality?

Also, on somewhat of a lark...Following through, apparently they banned characters in the game because of excess lewdity/sex-appeal/pornography, and...
Apparently Chinese got it bad for white-haired ladies?

Iunnow. Just found the prevalence of that curious.
 

bintananth

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Is...Is the Chinese China Music and Digital Association just doing the 'Your waifu is shiiiit!' meme in reality?

Also, on somewhat of a lark...Following through, apparently they banned characters in the game because of excess lewdity/sex-appeal/pornography, and...
Apparently Chinese got it bad for white-haired ladies?

Iunnow. Just found the prevalence of that curious.
I imagine the characters large bra size might be more of an issue. On average (using US cup sizes) a Chinese woman is an A while a Japanese woman is a C. Those gals sweater puppies are much too large for a C cup.
 

Terthna

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If you want to make a case that people who were already vulnerable gravitated toward stuff like anime, I'd be open to it, but I will not pretend weebs aren't a prime recruiting ground. I've seen too much of it, both among fanfic communities I used to hang with, and more recently among family.
As have I. But the thing is; it's everywhere. Every fandom; from Marvel comics, to Doctor Who, to Dungeons & Dragons, are "prime recruiting grounds". At some point, you have to admit that the fault lies in our culture as a whole, and not the works of fiction people enjoy.

Aielle wasn't drawn like she was twelve but I'm pretty sure she said she was twelve. My tapes are long gone or I'd post a screenshot.
Maybe in the dub, but I don't recall her ever saying that in the original Japanese; and I've watched El-Hazard well over dozen times. Then again, even if she did say she was twelve, I wouldn't see that as a problem; as I don't buy into the whole "fiction corrupts" mentality. It's fiction. She's not real.

Stoicism as a behavioral principle (not an ideology) was plenty common among Western nations until recently. "Stiff upper lip" ring a bell?
That's incredibly reductive of what Stocism actually is; and if you haven't seen much of that in anime, you clearly didn't see much anime. Just off the top of my head I could name dozens with characters who do the whole "stiff upper lip" thing, or something reasonably close to it.

Moral virtue is relevant in all situations, but if you don't want to hear it, w/e.
Sure it is. But it's almost impossible to find two people who entirely agree on what is virtuous.

As for the CCP's propaganda, what are they pushing that you believe is "orders of magnitude worse" than ultraviolence and promiscuity?
Genocide, Communism, unthinking obedience to an all-powerful superstate; take your pick. At least the ultraviolence and promiscuity are contained within a fantasy; what the CCP propagandizes in favor of actually affects people (even kills them) in the real world.
 

Vaermina

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Interview

Link is to a pretty interesting interview with one of the exiled Chinese billionairs. He figured he was a deadman anyway, so he wrote a tell-all book about all the dirty secrets he had on the CCP higher-ups. Then, the day before the book launch, he gets a call from his ex-wife (who had been dissapeared and though dead four years earlier) telling him not to publish or he and his son will die.
You really have to wonder why anybody even approaching that level of money would choose to stay in China at this point.
 

Alathon

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As have I. But the thing is; it's everywhere. Every fandom; from Marvel comics, to Doctor Who, to Dungeons & Dragons, are "prime recruiting grounds". At some point, you have to admit that the fault lies in our culture as a whole, and not the works of fiction people enjoy.


Maybe in the dub, but I don't recall her ever saying that in the original Japanese; and I've watched El-Hazard well over dozen times. Then again, even if she did say she was twelve, I wouldn't see that as a problem; as I don't buy into the whole "fiction corrupts" mentality. It's fiction. She's not real.


That's incredibly reductive of what Stocism actually is; and if you haven't seen much of that in anime, you clearly didn't see much anime. Just off the top of my head I could name dozens with characters who do the whole "stiff upper lip" thing, or something reasonably close to it.


Sure it is. But it's almost impossible to find two people who entirely agree on what is virtuous.


Genocide, Communism, unthinking obedience to an all-powerful superstate; take your pick. At least the ultraviolence and promiscuity are contained within a fantasy; what the CCP propagandizes in favor of actually affects people (even kills them) in the real world.
The CCP is about as communist as Scientologists are scientists. They do teach obedience to the state, but obedience and order being the highest values is normal in Asian nations. There's really no reason to fault them for that. I'm not so keen on how they're hyping their population up for war, but with all the sabre-rattling they're hearing from Globohomo, I can't blame them for that either. The CCP could choose war.... but so could our leaders, and it's ours that have invaded other nations for the last few decades.

I agree that there's more to the philosophy of Stoicism than "stiff upper lip". I also agree that there are surely many characters depicted in the medium of anime that have demonstrated stoicism in one respect or another. Are such shows centered on such characters actually being banned by China? Because on first glance it looks like China is banning a bunch of waifushit and generic toy-selling garbage that came from outside their own culture.

Finally, the idea that "it's not real" falls apart in video media because human brains are trainable by video media. I hear that "it's not real" shit and I hear my brother bitching about me muting commercials and how it's pointless because he "knows better" and "can tell the difference". Strangely, he went into substantial debt to buy brand new luxury consumer goods... as have tens of millions of Americans.

"It's not real" could be true in written literature, where the reader does not simply watch but must comprehend and imagine, but in video? We see what we see, and it doesn't matter if we're consciously aware that something is an advertisement or entertainment media -- our brains build associations.
 
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