Catachan (Warhammer40k) vs Various Invasions

[Simonbob]

Yes I have it's literally no more dangerous than the wasteland, and more than half the roster wouldn't be able to kill or injure a power armored trooper.

Did you just say half the bio-sphere could eat power armor as an argument against me?

Furthermore the "Catachan" ate a Hive Fleet is literally bullshit, a guy assumes that's what happened other lore states that Catachan was created by advanced Hive fleets who never connected with the main Tyranid Hive.


People think Catachan was invaded but it never was and the only source that states this is directly contradicted by another source.

So....

Either Catachan ate a Tyranid attack, or it is a Tyranid bio-sphere. Either way, some low tech power armor isn't even close to proof against it.


Seriously, give it up, man. Chaos, orks, all sorts of other things have hit that planet and bounced. Humanity got there at the hight of their tech, and that wasn't enough to tame Catachan. When the Empire of Man got there, there was the remains of the colonial groups, fighting and running from the bio-sphere, not even close to being in charge.

The Imperium, with it's million worlds and God-Emps only knows how many tech-priests and general stuff, they can't do move than keep it running.


The Wiki says, even with most everybody living in massively armed and armored forts, 3/4 of the kids born on Catachan don't make it to adulthood. It's a top of the line Death World. No, the wasteland is not as dangerous as Catachan. Nothing in the wasteland could eat a MBT.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Did you just say half the bio-sphere could eat power armor as an argument against me?

No more like more than half the biosphere wouldn't do jack to advanced power armor.

So....

Either Catachan ate a Tyranid attack, or it is a Tyranid bio-sphere. Either way, some low tech power armor isn't even close to proof against it.

But unaugmented humans wearing nothing but a T-Shirt can survive fine

Please attest to how T-Shirts made of cloth are more advanced and protective than Fallout Power Armor.

I'll go ahead and wait.

Seriously, give it up, man. Chaos, orks, all sorts of other things have hit that planet and bounced. Humanity got there at the hight of their tech, and that wasn't enough to tame Catachan. When the Empire of Man got there, there was the remains of the colonial groups, fighting and running from the bio-sphere, not even close to being in charge.

More like the Imperium and those who invaded were either criminally incompetent or underequipped.

Lest not we forget Daemons and Orkz run around naked or just covered in plain heavy metal armor.

The Imperium, with it's million worlds and God-Emps only knows how many tech-priests and general stuff, they can't do move than keep it running.

Citation required.

Last I checked the Imperium's actual reason is because they purposely want Death Worlds the way they are because they think 1/4 people surviving there would make their troops higher quality than providing any decent training.

Not because they allocated millions of ships and hundreds of Astartes Chapters over the course of 30,000 years to subjugate the planet. The fuckers didn't even bother to create a PDF force so calm your boner.

The Wiki says, even with most everybody living in massively armed and armored forts, 3/4 of the kids born on Catachan don't make it to adulthood. It's a top of the line Death World. No, the wasteland is not as dangerous as Catachan. Nothing in the wasteland could eat a MBT.

Everybody living in said forts consist of naked baseline humans, Catachan don't make it to children because again the naked human body doesn't offer much protection.

Mean while the Wasteland deals with Supermutants that can eat explosions that kill power armored troopers and dozens of FO laser rifle blasts and requires tactical nukes to kill

Get the Fat Man! We'll try to keep him busy!

Even relatively common pests like Death Claws require explosives to deal with and wiped out a Platoon.

"Mayday, mayday, mayday! This is NCR trooper Gleeson calling anyone listening on this channel. My platoon has been wiped out, and I am pinned down by a goddamn huge deathclaw in a place called the Divide! So far I've been able to scare it away with flares, but I lack any explosives to kill the damn thing! Please assist! I say again, please assist! Mayday, mayday, mayday! This is NCR Trooper Gleeson calling anyone listening on this channel."

In contrast you have generic shitty man eating plants 1 through 20 for the bulk of the dangers present on Catachan.

Fallout has Super Fungoid Hive Mind giant bats that take multiple Rockets to down if it doesn't just immediately turn you into this in seconds with its spores.

Against people who are already canonically resistant to super viruses and parasites with their natural immunity.


But please go on

 

[Bear Ribs]

Everybody living in said forts consist of naked baseline humans, Catachan don't make it to children because again the naked human body doesn't offer much protection.

...


But unaugmented humans wearing nothing but a T-Shirt can survive fine

There's no such thing as a "baseline" or "unaugmented" human. A human's abilities in fiction are what the fiction says and have no relationship to what humans in real life can do.

A basic mook human with no augmentations in Claymore can roof-jump while wearing a full-plate harness and carrying a halberd. That's literally rando gate guard behavior in that universe. Ranma Saotome is an unaugmented human who can jump fifty feet through the air, shatter trees and stone walls with a casual punch, and hold open the jaws of an alligator the size of a schoolbus. The guy standing next to him is a delusional fool who can still chop through a stone pillar with a wooden sword. How about Batman? He's unaugmented, but he can also do... well do we need to cover his ludicrous feats?

"But muh unaugmented humans" is a weak argument because the writer is under no constraints to have their unaugmented humans as limited as RL humans.

Catachan's actually a specifically justified example, because power armor doesn't work against most of the threats. The toxins will go right through environmentally sealed armor, the spores can eat through concrete and steel as easily as flesh, and the bugs can burrow through it as easily as through skin.

Also as you keep reaching for game mechanics, I'll point out that Catachans are notably much larger and stronger than any other humans. They can punch and stab as hard as a Space Marine (who are massively augmented) and a Catachan Jungle Fighter's bare chest deflects bullets about as well as Cadian Pattern Flak Armor.

 

[Battlegrinder]

But unaugmented humans wearing nothing but a T-Shirt can survive fine

No they can't, the death rate for native catachans is incredibly high. And that's with thousands and thousands of years of knowledge and experience.

Mean while the Wasteland deals with Supermutants that can eat explosions that kill power armored troopers and dozens of FO laser rifle blasts and requires tactical nukes to kill

"tactical nukes" is overstating things considerably. A fat man shell seems to be on par with an artillery round as far as the actual blast size and explosive effect, which is impressive for a man portable weapon, but in no way is it a tactical nuclear weapon.

Even relatively common pests like Death Claws require explosives to deal with and wiped out a Platoon.

Eh, that quote doesn't say the deathclaw wiped out his platoon, merely that it had been wiped out (given there was an ongoing battle against the legion at the time, it's more likely the legion did a lot of the damage), and there's zero evidence to suggest that deathclaws require explosives to deal with (in fact, there's a scripted set piece encounter in 4 that suggests they're entirely vulnerable to conventional weapons).

Deathclaws are also not in any way common (in large part becuase wastelanders go to great lengths to wipe them out), as that same game you're quoting shows, where deathclaws are only really found in....2 areas in the base game IIRC.

Fallout has Super Fungoid Hive Mind giant bats that take multiple Rockets to down if it doesn't just immediately turn you into this in seconds with its spores.

That sounds like video game hit point logic. Certainly those bats can be tough, but by that argument everyone in fallout is super tough and can withstand multiple rifle shots to the chest or head without issue.

Against people who are already canonically resistant to super viruses and parasites with their natural immunity.

Eh...I don't think that's the case, the PIV program never actually got off the ground.

 

[Zachowon]

Excuse my French but bullshit, base line humans with training can notice it.




Literally only two things don't, toads and spores. Which are VERY easily countered by any force with a half decent kit.



Daemons and Orkz are still susceptible to biological warfare and don't wear vacuum sealed armor, Orkz runs around naked with scrap weapons and Daemons run around naked with melee weapons.

Neither are a professional or well equipped and organized army.




Unless there's millions of Toads and Devil Catachan every mile no, the biggest and primary threat is disease and poisonous fauna which power armor will no sell.



Source they can shoot ICBM with point defense guns? Not silly flak cannons for WWII planes.



Yes, one every three hours per facility.



No you can't there are no stairs or structures to jump off from.



Logically if a section collapsed removing the debris isn't going to restore the stair case to support the weight of multi ton power suit.

Which means rebuilding the staircase which requires time and resources of which they didn't have.

You're talking about a force that was limited to one Magazine each.



You can't climb to Helios one, there are no ladders or positions to jump across. Your arguing for fanfiction.

Daemons actually arnt susceptible to chemical warfare.
They dont have any lungs or anything. Blood letters don't, Chaos spawn of any don't. Nurglings don't.
You ar ethinking cultists and Chaos space marines

No more like more than half the biosphere wouldn't do jack to advanced power armor.



But unaugmented humans wearing nothing but a T-Shirt can survive fine

Please attest to how T-Shirts made of cloth are more advanced and protective than Fallout Power Armor.

I'll go ahead and wait.




More like the Imperium and those who invaded were either criminally incompetent or underequipped.

Lest not we forget Daemons and Orkz run around naked or just covered in plain heavy metal armor.



Citation required.

Last I checked the Imperium's actual reason is because they purposely want Death Worlds the way they are because they think 1/4 people surviving there would make their troops higher quality than providing any decent training.

Not because they allocated millions of ships and hundreds of Astartes Chapters over the course of 30,000 years to subjugate the planet. The fuckers didn't even bother to create a PDF force so calm your boner.



Everybody living in said forts consist of naked baseline humans, Catachan don't make it to children because again the naked human body doesn't offer much protection.

Mean while the Wasteland deals with Supermutants that can eat explosions that kill power armored troopers and dozens of FO laser rifle blasts and requires tactical nukes to kill




Even relatively common pests like Death Claws require explosives to deal with and wiped out a Platoon.

In contrast you have generic shitty man eating plants 1 through 20 for the bulk of the dangers present on Catachan.

Fallout has Super Fungoid Hive Mind giant bats that take multiple Rockets to down if it doesn't just immediately turn you into this in seconds with its spores.

Against people who are already canonically resistant to super viruses and parasites with their natural immunity.


But please go on

Calling Catachan Jungle fighters ordinary humans is laughable.

Besides we have IN LORE them being stronger every time they are brought up.
This is obvious by multiple thong.
One, they are often mistaken for Ogryns by people who have never seen them.
Two, we have things saying they are on without a doubt taller and stronger them tje average human soldier.
This is shown in novels such as Cain series. Where we have two of them holding a blast door open that would have crushed anyone else. He mentioned just how large they are compared to everyone else.

We also have feats such as Harker, a Catachan, taking gun shots and surviving.
We have Catachans that have faced Tryanid beasts and come out of it alive and only missing an arm.
They are the only regiments that have known Humans carrying heavy weapons, not just Ogryns.
They carry knives the size of shirt swords to everyone else.

They arnt normal

 

[Scooby Doo]

There's no such thing as a "baseline" or "unaugmented" human. A human's abilities in fiction are what the fiction says and have no relationship to what humans in real life can do.

Unaugmented is literally stated from the 40k sources. This explicitly means you can't scale them up to other characters with out cherry picking.

A basic mook human with no augmentations in Claymore can roof-jump while wearing a full-plate harness and carrying a halberd. That's literally rando gate guard behavior in that universe. Ranma Saotome is an unaugmented human who can jump fifty feet through the air, shatter trees and stone walls with a casual punch, and hold open the jaws of an alligator the size of a schoolbus. The guy standing next to him is a delusional fool who can still chop through a stone pillar with a wooden sword. How about Batman? He's unaugmented, but he can also do... well do we need to cover his ludicrous feats?

Irrelevant, unless you want to argue with the author's who wrote the source material that Catachan are closer to Spacemarines than Guardsmen

"But muh unaugmented humans" is a weak argument because the writer is under no constraints to have their unaugmented humans as limited as RL humans.

Catachan's actually a specifically justified example, because power armor doesn't work against most of the threats. The toxins will go right through environmentally sealed armor, the spores can eat through concrete and steel as easily as flesh, and the bugs can burrow through it as easily as through skin.

Also as you keep reaching for game mechanics, I'll point out that Catachans are notably much larger and stronger than any other humans. They can punch and stab as hard as a Space Marine (who are massively augmented) and a Catachan Jungle Fighter's bare chest deflects bullets about as well as Cadian Pattern Flak Armor.

Source for all of that, especially the bare chest deflecting bullets and punching as hard as a Spacemarine. (Which would contradict various sources)
______________________

No they can't, the death rate for native catachans is incredibly high. And that's with thousands and thousands of years of knowledge and experience.

Uh yes they can you have to make up your mind either Catachan is completely inhospitable and nothing can survive or Humans can survive on the planet with out any protective measures

"tactical nukes" is overstating things considerably. A fat man shell seems to be on par with an artillery round as far as the actual blast size and explosive effect, which is impressive for a man portable weapon, but in no way is it a tactical nuclear weapon.

General Brock's Report - September 2077

After a few design setbacks, and the loss of one of our testing squads, we've finally perfected the M42 Launcher's firing mechanism. Washington has been riding me to wrap this project up, but with a weapon this potent I was inclined to take my time. We've sent the launchers ahead to the supply yard in Mississippi, and we're just waiting for the go ahead to ship the warheads wherever they need to go. Hopefully, we can get those nukes out of here before the month is out. I don't feel comfortable sleeping twenty feet above enough nukes to reduce this island to ash.

Artillery shells can't vaporize islands, your personal head canon doesn't override established lore.

Eh, that quote doesn't say the deathclaw wiped out his platoon, merely that it had been wiped out (given there was an ongoing battle against the legion at the time, it's more likely the legion did a lot of the damage), and there's zero evidence to suggest that deathclaws require explosives to deal with (in fact, there's a scripted set piece encounter in 4 that suggests they're entirely vulnerable to conventional weapons).

Quote literally does, and no the Divide didn't have Legion forces fighting there it is a literal NCR stronghold and the only thing the Legion were stated to have done IRC is assassinate Caravanners.

And the only instance in FO4 with a scripted sequence with a Deathclaw has it slaughter an entire gunner squad with out harm like wise Deathclaws were designed to replace Pre-War Soldiers so their defenses would be equivalent to existing power armor. Along with the other sources of them taking rifle rounds without flinching and desert eagles rounds without flinching.

You see a typical deathclaw. The creature is huge, with a powerful body, sharp teeth, and long claws. This one appears to be female but you can not tell with any certainty. You notice the scars of several injuries on her torso. -Kerith description (Fallout 2)

That is a painful memory. A treacherous human sneaked in here and planted a bomb among the eggs while I was asleep. Fortunately he was not as stealthy leaving and I awoke to find the bomb. There was not enough time to deal with the device properly, so I threw it at the door and placed myself between it and the eggs. The eggs and I survived. The door did not. -Kerith (Fallout 2)

You seem to have a habit of downplaying Fallout to the lowest possible interpretation tbh even with easy to find sources that say other wise.

Deathclaws are also not in any way common (in large part becuase wastelanders go to great lengths to wipe them out), as that same game you're quoting shows, where deathclaws are only really found in....2 areas in the base game IIRC.

Excuse me?

• Despite the best efforts of well-equipped hunters, deathclaws continue to establish nests across the Mojave Wasteland.

There's literally over 45 Death Claws in the Mojave alone even with extensive population control. They are very very much indeed very common, even in Fallout 4 where they appear rarely you find a single Death Claw mother can lay about five eggs in one clutch, if they grow and have the same productive cycle as their pre mutated selves they should be able to maintain relatively high numbers.

Which is likely considering losing 20 of their members of a pack didn't seem to cause a noticable drop in their numbers which indicates their growth and reproductive cycle is fast enough to replace those losses.

That sounds like video game hit point logic. Certainly those bats can be tough, but by that argument everyone in fallout is super tough and can withstand multiple rifle shots to the chest or head without issue.

The Brotherhood literally uses rocket sentry's in a scripted event and died because the turrets went down it's actually a plot point.

Eh...I don't think that's the case, the PIV program never actually got off the ground.

It is the case

Daemons actually arnt susceptible to chemical warfare.

Yes they are, I literally own the Tyranid 7th edition codex and Tyranids were able to harm Nurgle Daemons on several occasions with their biowarfare.

And since Catachan is a proto Tyranid biosphere, ding ding ding.

They dont have any lungs or anything. Blood letters don't, Chaos spawn of any don't. Nurglings don't.
You ar ethinking cultists and Chaos space marines

-The Doom of Hesp

Vectoriums of the 4th and 7th engage the Tyranids of Hive Fleet Lotan amidst the steaming jungles of Hesp. When the swarms deploy Toxicrenes and Venomthropes to poison the environment, the Death Guard respond with plague spells, virus bombs and daemonic diseases. With neither side willing to back down, the atmosphere of Hesp becomes ever more toxic until the jungles, and even the warring armies, are reduced to a gory, bubbling soup.

Calling Catachan Jungle fighters ordinary humans is laughable.

They are in the setting of 40k according to author fiat, deal with it.

Besides we have IN LORE them being stronger every time they are brought up.
This is obvious by multiple thong.

Yeah it's easy to be contrasted as strong compared to malnourished peasants and Guardsmen tbh

One, they are often mistaken for Ogryns by people who have never seen them

That's a testament to their size and physique but more so a testament to how bad the physique is of the average Imperial.

.
Two, we have things saying they are on without a doubt taller and stronger them tje average human soldier.

That's agreeable.

This is shown in novels such as Cain series. Where we have two of them holding a blast door open that would have crushed anyone else. He mentioned just how large they are compared to everyone else.

And how much did the door weigh exactly? I can hold a door that would crush my elderly grandma, doesn't mean I'm a Spartan II.

Calc the feat.

We also have feats such as Harker, a Catachan, taking gun shots and surviving.

Source

We have Catachans that have faced Tryanid beasts and come out of it alive and only missing an arm.

Not impressive, a random fodder messenger can survive Tyranids that killed Cadians.

They are the only regiments that have known Humans carrying heavy weapons, not just Ogryns.
They carry knives the size of shirt swords to everyone else.

They arnt normal

That's like impressive compared to Russian esque conscripts not power armored regiments.

 

[Zachowon]

Unaugmented is literally stated from the 40k sources. This explicitly means you can't scale them up to other characters with out cherry picking.



Irrelevant, unless you want to argue with the author's who wrote the source material that Catachan are closer to Spacemarines than Guardsmen


Source for all of that, especially the bare chest deflecting bullets and punching as hard as a Spacemarine. (Which would contradict various sources)
______________________

Uh yes they can you have to make up your mind either Catachan is completely inhospitable and nothing can survive or Humans can survive on the planet with out any protective measures

Artillery shells can't vaporize islands, your personal head canon doesn't override established lore.




Quote literally does, and no the Divide didn't have Legion forces fighting there it is a literal NCR stronghold and the only thing the Legion were stated to have done IRC is assassinate Caravanners.

And the only instance in FO4 with a scripted sequence with a Deathclaw has it slaughter an entire gunner squad with harm like wise Deathclaws were designed to replace Pre-War Soldiers so their defenses would be equivalent to existing power armor. Along with the other sources of them taking rifle rounds without flinching and desert eagles rounds without flinching.



You seem to have a habit of downplaying Fallout to the lowest possible interpretation tbh even with easy to find sources that say other wise.



Excuse me?

There's literally over 45 Death Claws in the Mojave alone even with extensive population control. They are very very much indeed very common, even in Fallout 4 where they appear rarely you find a single Death Claw mother can lay about five eggs in one clutch, if they grow and have the same productive cycle as their pre mutated selves they should be able to maintain relatively high numbers.

Which is likely considering losing 20 of their members of a pack didn't seem to cause a noticable drop in their numbers which indicates their growth and reproductive cycle is fast enough to replace those losses.



The Brotherhood literally uses rocket sentry's in a scripted event and died because the turrets went down it's actually a plot point.


It is the case

Yes they are, I literally own the Tyranid 7th edition codex and Tyranids were able to harm Nurgle Daemons on several occasions with their biowarfare.

And since Catachan is a proto Tyranid biosphere, ding ding ding.











They are in the setting of 40k according to author fiat, deal with it.



Yeah it's easy to be contrasted as strong compared to malnourished peasants and Guardsmen tbh



That's a testament to their size and physique but more so a testament to how bad the physique is of the average Imperial.



That's agreeable.


And how much did the door weigh exactly? I can hold a door that would crush my elderly grandma, doesn't mean I'm a Spartan II.

Calc the feat.



Source


Not impressive, a random fodder messenger can survive Tyranids that killed Cadians.



That's like impressive compared to Russian esque conscripts not power armored regiments.

Death guard they can harm because again, not Daemons.
And Tyranids are connected to the warpnin the fact they can weaken it. Therefore allow the Daemons to be weakened if not stop them outright.

We also know Nurgle deamons spread plagues. If you mean the specific fleet that has ADAPATED to fight Choas by making Warp attacking disease then you have a point.


They arnt normal humans in 40k. They are thier own thing of Humans in 40k.
Catachans are basically known to being the big bulky muscle clad humans. Again, often mistaken as Abhumans.

If we wanna say all humans across all setting are the same normal humans, then Hawkeye from Marvel is just as ordinary as me and you. A catachan Warrior is as normal as me or you. Humans in fucking anime series are normal like me and you, even when we know they are definitely not....
I get it. Everyone is a normal human according to thier lore. Therefore they are just like you and me.


Except that isn't true. We can see in 40k, based ok quotes and the like, they are not like a Normal human in real-life. Catachans are normal to each other but to outsiders they seem abhuman.

Malnourished peasants and Guardsmen? Dude, what? We know what an average Guardsmen looks like based off numerous covers and art work, as well as models and the like.
We even have what hive gangers look like and even normal hive world's look like based off descriptions.

Outside of certain situations rarely ever do we see them as "Malnourished peasants".
We often see plump leadership sure, but in Hive cities for example, plenty are not Malnourished.
Like, where are you getting that from? You are sounding like a sigmarxist with that phrasing.


What? Like...what? Guardsmen are not peasants that are starving. They sre often kept well fed when possible to allow for the ability to fight conflicts.

Catachans are heads and shoulders above that. We can take the Cain novels. The Gaunt novels. Damn near every thing we have about the guard shows the opposite what you are stating.
We have the Only War RPGs, Dark Heresy even has it.
Hell, we can look at DarkTide to see that even PRISONERS, arnt malnourished.

Maybe because keeping your populace in shape is important....

...it's a fucking blast door, made to stop decompression from the rest of the ship. It is also strong enough to withstand a lot. Like, bulkhead type doors. They held it open with pure muscle.

Here is a picture of one type of blast door.

And these are more akin to what is on the ground but also in ships.
Not small, and if it took two too hold it up based off the description we got in the book. It is probably the second one.

As for Harker source.

All Catachans have a reputation for being tough, but Harker is perhaps the hardest of them all. While a rumour claiming he chews glass instead of tobacco might be false, he has certainly been known to place his hands into the fire and ignore it, and easily shrug off blade cuts or gunshot wounds without as much as a grimace.

-5th edition Imperial Guard Codex

Also, here we have another thing saying that due to the planet they are naturally bigger and stronger then normal humans.

We have a Catachan regiment that literally covered themselves in Lictor blood and hunted the lictors hunting them...

We have men like Iron Hand Straken who had half his body eaten by a land shark.

Harken carries a fucking Heavy bolter, and that honestly isn't that far off from normal Catachans. Ogryns can do that kinda shit.

We also have Catachans fighting multiple orks in melee combat. Wothiut any ranged weapons. Orks are basically super mutants strength wise.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Death guard they can harm because again, not Daemons.

The 4th and 7th Vectorium specifically have Daemons in their ranks and are led specifically by a Daemon.

So yes Daemons.

And Tyranids are connected to the warpnin the fact they can weaken it. Therefore allow the Daemons to be weakened if not stop them outright.

So then why are you bragging about Catachan beating Daemons if they're naturally weak to Tyranids?

Catachan is a Proto Tyranid biosphere

We also know Nurgle deamons spread plagues. If you mean the specific fleet that has ADAPATED to fight Choas by making Warp attacking disease then you have a point.

Nope the Battle of Hesp was not Kronos, even Hive Fleet Gorgon beat Nurgle forces in the past irc.

They arnt normal humans in 40k. They are thier own thing of Humans in 40k.
Catachans are basically known to being the big bulky muscle clad humans. Again, often mistaken as Abhumans.

Okay got it, they're better than normal humans but still human so peak human.

If we wanna say all humans across all setting are the same normal humans, then Hawkeye from Marvel is just as ordinary as me and you. A catachan Warrior is as normal as me or you. Humans in fucking anime series are normal like me and you, even when we know they are definitely not....
I get it. Everyone is a normal human according to thier lore. Therefore they are just like you and me.

So peak human got it

Except that isn't true. We can see in 40k, based ok quotes and the like, they are not like a Normal human in real-life. Catachans are normal to each other but to outsiders they seem abhuman.

You do know there are various types of in shape humans and sizes?

Catachan aren't suddenly Superman.

Malnourished peasants and Guardsmen? Dude, what? We know what an average Guardsmen looks like based off numerous covers and art work, as well as models and the like.
We even have what hive gangers look like and even normal hive world's look like based off descriptions.

Yeah malnourished, the Imperium only keeps a select few specific Regiments in top shape like Cadians or Catachan were as the rest are poorly trained conscripts rushed to the front line.

Outside of certain situations rarely ever do we see them as "Malnourished peasants".
We often see plump leadership sure, but in Hive cities for example, plenty are not Malnourished.
Like, where are you getting that from? You are sounding like a sigmarxist with that phrasing.


What? Like...what? Guardsmen are not peasants that are starving. They sre often kept well fed when possible to allow for the ability to fight conflicts.

Corpse-starch
The Bulk of Imperium forces eat recycled corpses, only important ones and world's get any quality food.

Catachans are heads and shoulders above that. We can take the Cain novels. The Gaunt novels. Damn near every thing we have about the guard shows the opposite what you are stating.
We have the Only War RPGs, Dark Heresy even has it.
Hell, we can look at DarkTide to see that even PRISONERS, arnt malnourished.

Maybe because keeping your populace in shape is important....

...it's a fucking blast door, made to stop decompression from the rest of the ship. It is also strong enough to withstand a lot. Like, bulkhead type doors. They held it open with pure muscle.

Here is a picture of one type of blast door.

And these are more akin to what is on the ground but also in ships.
Not small, and if it took two too hold it up based off the description we got in the book. It is probably the second one.

So how much force were they pushing against? It's a blast door doesn't answer the question, was it closing at full power? Was it damage?

As for Harker source.

-5th edition Imperial Guard Codex

So he's just getting shot without grunting in pain, good feat for pain tolerance but it doesn't signify anything for durability.

Is he getting shot with smaller calibers/high calibers are they graze or sticking his heart/chest? Ect

Surviving bullet wounds is different from tanking them.

Also, here we have another thing saying that due to the planet they are naturally bigger and stronger then normal humans.

You know who are also stronger than typical humans? Soldiers, Olympic Athletes, Strongmen.


This isn't signifying superhuman strength to even come close to threatening Power Armor.

We have a Catachan regiment that literally covered themselves in Lictor blood and hunted the lictors hunting them...

Cool, example of PIS.

We have men like Iron Hand Straken who had half his body eaten by a land shark.

Was he capable of fighting? I can point out normal humans irl who survived 1,000 foot falls with nothing to break their fall or impalement to the head with a spear and still survive.

Harken carries a fucking Heavy bolter, and that honestly isn't that far off from normal Catachans. Ogryns can do that kinda shit.

So he's lifting 68 kilograms (Heavy Bolter is 68 kilo). Which is 7 kilograms above the weight lifting for a regular soldier

Military Press Standards for Men and Women (lb) - Strength Level.

Not superhuman only very good physique, the only thing superhuman would be how well he handles the recoil of the Heavy Bolter.

We also have Catachans fighting multiple orks in melee combat. Wothiut any ranged weapons. Orks are basically super mutants strength wise.

PIS, Skitaari in the novel "Skitarius" were losing to sensory deprived Orkz in melee and Skitaari are stated to be above any Guard regiment in physical ability.

 

[Scooby Doo]

And before you go wanking Catachan hunting LICTORS, it contradicts existing source.

at this corpuscular level, it was a mistake to see the lictor as a lictor, one of millions; there were not many, there was one. The lictor was the lictor. Every iteration was a copy, better than perfect for aeons of improvement, party to the actions, mistakes and successes of every other lictor that had come before. Welded to the very genes of its being were untold millions of years of experience. And it was on Baal just as it was simultaneously on a thousand other worlds throughout the galaxy.

It put ancient lessons into action. Sight was the easiest sense to fool. The lictor moved at night, when it was harder to see. Chromatic microscales lent it near perfect chameleonic ability even in the full light of day. Deformable organ clusters embedded in its skin allowed it to change its shape somewhat, enabling it to take on the rough texture of stone, or mimic fronds of vegetation. Smell was a more primal sense, harder to deceive because of it. The lictor managed that too. It had virtually no scent. Only when it flooded the air with pheromone trails to guide its kin beasts did its emissions become noticeable. By then it was too late. Most prey could hear, so it made no sound when it moved. Special arrangements of hairs baffled the whisper of its limbs moving over one another.

More esoteric senses were equally well accounted for. Its electromagnetic profile was minimal. Its brain case was shielded by internal bone structures against energy leakage. The nerves in its body were similarly cloaked. Its hooves were shaped to make the minimum of vibration, and although it could not entirely stop the perturbation of the air made by its movements, its chitinous plates were fluted in precise molecular, fractal patterns to minimise its wake. It gave off no heat. It shed no cells unless damaged. Its psychic link with the hive mind was like spider silk, gossamer thin, strong, and almost impossible to detect.

More adaptations heaped on top of more. Unlike a natural organism, which loses certain gifts in favour of others as evolution pushes it down a particular path, the lictor's advantages were retained, new gifts stacked atop the others. Its genetic structure was incredibly complex. Within every cell was billions of years' worth of adaptation, culled from every lictor, coiled up one over the other. Anything useful to its role, no matter how inconsequential seeming, it retained forever. Every machine and psychic ability the Imperium had geared towards detection, the lictor could evade. The hive mind had consumed far more advanced races than mankind. Infiltrating Baal was child's play. There was no need for it to employ a fraction of its considerable talents.

 

[Simonbob]

I'm not going to keep arguing. It's dumb.

There are real critters, bears, etc, that can damage steel and titanium, of a certain amount. There are biological acids, molds and the like, that can eat such things. Freaking steel and titanium armor stopping the kind of insane bullshit that's Catachan?

Seriously?

And, pretending there aren't psionic stuff making whatever you're pretending is impossible, possible, you need to look a little deeper.




You know what? I'm just going to leave this here. I've said my piece. 40K is full of bullshit, and Catachan is a part of the insanity.

 

[Scooby Doo]

I find it hilarious people wanking Catachan threats when the environment of Fallout is just as dangerous with lethal spores/gases and creatures that can spit acid all the same



Only thing that FO doesn't have is train sized Kaiju, but please go ahead and wank a death world that isn't much different from another death world

 

[Battlegrinder]

Uh yes they can you have to make up your mind either Catachan is completely inhospitable and nothing can survive or Humans can survive on the planet with out any protective measures

Humans can survive there, but it's do dangerous they probably won't.

Artillery shells can't vaporize islands, your personal head canon doesn't override established lore.

Ok, first off that's very obviously could be hyperbole. Secondly.....what exactly do you think would happen to a very small island if tons and tons of artillery ammunition being stored there cooked off?


As for your images, I'm aware of what the game says, but you seem to be intentionally missing my point again. My point was that calling mini nukes "tactical nuclear weapons" is overhyping their performance. They are not, in any way, comparable to tactical nukes.

Quote literally does, and no the Divide didn't have Legion forces fighting there it is a literal NCR stronghold and the only thing the Legion were stated to have done IRC is assassinate Caravanners.

You recall incorrectly, there were conventional Legion forces there was well. Given that 3/4 of the named marked men are former legionaries, there may in fact have been more Legion troops in the area than NCR.

And the only instance in FO4 with a scripted sequence with a Deathclaw has it slaughter an entire gunner squad with out harm like wise Deathclaws were designed to replace Pre-War Soldiers so their defenses would be equivalent to existing power armor. Along with the other sources of them taking rifle rounds without flinching and desert eagles rounds without flinching.

You forget the introductory scene where you fight one with a minigun, and you're misrepresenting the salem church encounter. Yes, a lone deathclaw wipes out a sqaud of gunners, but it does do via stealthily picking them off one by one, it doesn't just tank everything they throw at it.

Also, you're making a wild leap in logic to assume they must be designed to be as tough as power armor. Deathclaws were designed to replace human infantry, but that does not mean they were meant to be a 1:1 replacement, there's no evidence (and for that matter, no plausible mechanism) that thry have a hide that's tougher than power armor.

There's literally over 45 Death Claws in the Mojave alone even with extensive population control.

Fallout NV has an area of 9000 square miles, so that's 200 square miles per deathclaw, and probably two or three times that once we adjust for the fact that a huge chuck of the claws in NV are young and would probably not survive to adulthood.

That's about the range size of Grizzly bears, and Grizzly bears are not particularly common. And since claws are packed animals that are, as I said, largely confided to two or so areas and bears are not, they're even less commonly encountered.

The Brotherhood literally uses rocket sentry's in a scripted event and died because the turrets went down it's actually a plot point.

Can you explain what happens in this scene slightly more, because I'm not seeing where you get the conclusion you're drawing.

It is the case

That is not canonical evidence that wastelands are particularly resistant to these "super viruses".

 

[Husky_Khan]

Parts of Fallout can be comparable to Deathworld level inhospitality. I'm sure Catachans reputation is due to the pervasiveness and persistence of the deadliness as opposed to the general threat level.

Fallout Wasteland is different in that the Deathly parts of the Wasteland may not grow back after being burned to the bedrock at so many meters per day with vines and lichens. When you killed the Mommy Deathclaw in Fallout 1 in the Boneyard it helped curb the Deathclaw population there dramatically. Maybe something similar could happen in The Quarry.

But places like The Divide and Sierra Madre and Big MT are exceptionally inhospitable. And a place like the Divide with it's pervasive Tunneler problem, turning the inhabitants into hyper aggressive well armed Marked Men types, the constant thick atmosphere and radiation hazards would make it comparable unhealthy.

There's also the Glowing Sea in the Commonwealth, the Pitt, and the swathes of the East Coast apparently just overrun by Supermutants which are likely similarly unhealthy. You could conceivably kill all the Supermutants ofc. But solving the inhospitality of the Divide, The Pitt or whatnot would likely require a similar strategic cleansing that Scooby Doo is recommending for Catachan. Neither place is also strictly inhospitable. But settlements can survive there. You can walk outside and survive with appropriate precautions.

The fact that Catachan bounced a Conventional invasion doesn't mean it could somehow survive those same factions using planetary level strategic weapons to cleanse the place. Whether it's Orks or Zetans doing it, you can scourge the surface until it goes glossy or glowy.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

...The fact that Catachan bounced a Conventional invasion doesn't mean it could somehow survive those same factions using planetary level strategic weapons to cleanse the place. Whether it's Orks or Zetans doing it, you can scourge the surface until it goes glossy or glowy.

The point of the OP though is to COLONIZE not eradicate. So we need to stop even considering the employment of strategic scale weaponry to 'cleanse the place.'

 

[Scooby Doo]

The point of the OP though is to COLONIZE not eradicate. So we need to stop even considering the employment of strategic scale weaponry to 'cleanse the place.'

Yeah colonize it for a population of ten million which is around the ball park the Catachan have.


Y'all essentially arguing peak human athletes with T-shirts can survive infinitely better regardless of advanced technology or assets deployed by the invaders even if this tech explicitly counters every issue that can be come across during colonization attempts.

 

[Zachowon]

The 4th and 7th Vectorium specifically have Daemons in their ranks and are led specifically by a Daemon.

So yes Daemons.




So then why are you bragging about Catachan beating Daemons if they're naturally weak to Tyranids?

Catachan is a Proto Tyranid biosphere




Nope the Battle of Hesp was not Kronos, even Hive Fleet Gorgon beat Nurgle forces in the past irc.





Okay got it, they're better than normal humans but still human so peak human.



So peak human got it




You do know there are various types of in shape humans and sizes?

Catachan aren't suddenly Superman.



Yeah malnourished, the Imperium only keeps a select few specific Regiments in top shape like Cadians or Catachan were as the rest are poorly trained conscripts rushed to the front line.





Corpse-starch
The Bulk of Imperium forces eat recycled corpses, only important ones and world's get any quality food.


So how much force were they pushing against? It's a blast door doesn't answer the question, was it closing at full power? Was it damage?



So he's just getting shot without grunting in pain, good feat for pain tolerance but it doesn't signify anything for durability.

Is he getting shot with smaller calibers/high calibers are they graze or sticking his heart/chest? Ect

Surviving bullet wounds is different from tanking them.






You know who are also stronger than typical humans? Soldiers, Olympic Athletes, Strongmen.


This isn't signifying superhuman strength to even come close to threatening Power Armor.



Cool, example of PIS.



Was he capable of fighting? I can point out normal humans irl who survived 1,000 foot falls with nothing to break their fall or impalement to the head with a spear and still survive.



So he's lifting 68 kilograms (Heavy Bolter is 68 kilo). Which is 7 kilograms above the weight lifting for a regular soldier

Military Press Standards for Men and Women (lb) - Strength Level.

Not superhuman only very good physique, the only thing superhuman would be how well he handles the recoil of the Heavy Bolter.




PIS, Skitaari in the novel "Skitarius" were losing to sensory deprived Orkz in melee and Skitaari are stated to be above any Guard regiment in physical ability.

And we have the deathguard out plaguing the Tyranids.

We knoe that the Daemons themselves are immune tonthings that arnt warp based.
then again, tyranids have Warp based things because they are used tinfighting daemons...wierd....

Daemons arnt naturally weak to Tyranids. Infact plenty of planets have survived them because of the Chais taint.
Because Chaos doesn't leave any biomass.
And Catachan has no Warp fuckery like Tyranids have...

Do we know jow they beat the Nurgle forces?

they are not peak human.
they are literally stronger then peak humans in other regiments.
Cain for instance can be considered peak human. Catachans are leagues stronger then him.

catachans are known to be the strongest, even mini ogryn like.

and we know for a fact that malnutrition isn't that common in the guard. We have the Valhallans in the Cain series. The Tallarn also in the Cain series. We have the Tanith in the Guant series.
None malnourished. Hell, the orisoners in Darktide.

that stuff is reserved for when unable to get anymore food in certain situations.
We literally never hear about the starche in the Cain series, and AFAIK never in the Guant series as well.

The Blast Door was fully operational, and was closing because of a hull breech. They held it open for long enough all but Cain and Jurgen were the only ones left when it closed because they couldn't hold it. So it is a door strong enough to stay pressurized, as well as be able to stop invaders onto the ship.

Hold on.
scooby, you know I am a soldier right? Plenty of people are stronger then me. The diffrence is, I know soldiers in Rangers and SF, peak physical condition a human can be at. They arnt able to do the kind of things Catachan are.


Except the fact that Catachans are often compared to Ogryns. Who would rip power armor apart because Space Marines are even threatened by Ogryns. Catachans are considered to be mini ones. Not as strong but so abhumanly strong that it makes modern day Olympians and strong men look pale.

Also, did you know a Browning 50, and the minivun are both under 100 lbs. Wanna know somwthing though. I can deadlift 200 lbs. A dead lift is not holding somwthing to your shpulder and firing it. I kmow guys who can max the ACFT deadlift who wouldnt be able to do that. So it is definitely not justpeak human.

Skitari do not compare to that of the Catachan in physic. Catachan Jungle fighters are renowned fir thier melee skill, especially against Orkz. Which they are known to be the best at hunting.

Only thing that FO doesn't have is train sized Kaiju, but please go ahead and wank a death world that isn't much different from another death world

Catachan is literally considered the deadliest death world by the Imperium.
Deathclaws are cute compared to Catachan Devils and Barking toads.
The thing about FO thiugh, is ordinary people can survive the Wasteland just fine. Be it NV, 3, 4.
They can have settlements, trading posts, etc and honestly not have much to worry about in day to day lives.

Now, compared to that of Catachan where you will most likely die before you get to see adulthood....

And spores on catachan can and have been threats to Space Marines. Again, Catachan was a world colonized by the DAoT Humanity iirc, and they couldn't even tame it.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Yeah colonize it for a population of ten million which is around the ball park the Catachan have.


Y'all essentially arguing peak human athletes with T-shirts can survive infinitely better regardless of advanced technology or assets deployed by the invaders even if this tech explicitly counters every issue that can be come across during colonization attempts.

Well, to run with Husky's point a bit, the question is if fallout tech does actually counter those issues. Yes, if you have the right equipment and training, you can survive in the glowing sea/pitt/divide/etc. You can walk around the area and fight through the hazards, but you can't inhabit the area, it's too lethal for any kind of prolonged, sustainable settlement.

To do that, the catachans have to essentially wage a constant war against the local environment (not wildlife, environment, even plants on Catachan can bring down a building in short order), which they inevitably lose and have to relocate somewhere else. It's like the planet knows they're there and is actively trying to drive them away.

You keep focusing on "lol, humans in T-shirts", when the issue isn't if you can survive on catachan minute to minute (also, for many, many residents of catachan, the answer to that question is no, so the "survive daily life" bar is actually set well above dudes in T-shirts), it's if you can stay alive long term and actually settle it. While also having to contend with the local IG, who aren't going to to just sit by and let you try to get a foothold before they attack you, BTW.


Additional, you are not considering that having the technological capability to counter what catachan can throw at you is not the same as having the knowledge to apply it in that role. Sure, fallout can eventually figure out how to survive on catachan and deal with the hazards, but if they'll do so before running out of time is a different question. It'll only take one mistake for thier beachhead to collapse, and they'll have a lot of mistakes to make.


For example, you argued that the barking toad is a none-issue because lol robots. Let's ignore that your plan to clear them out just blithely assumes the robots won't get mulched by one of the hundreds of other predators on catachan on thier way to go get rid of the toads. How many times is the fallout armies beachhead going to go up in a fireball before they figure out the root cause is an exploding frog? Because I'm betting on it being a fairly common issue for them, particularly since anyone in a position to actually see the toad detonating won't live to report it.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Well, to run with Husky's point a bit, the question is if fallout tech does actually counter those issues. Yes, if you have the right equipment and training, you can survive in the glowing sea/pitt/divide/etc. You can walk around the area and fight through the hazards, but you can't inhabit the area, it's too lethal for any kind of prolonged, sustainable settlement.

You can't inhabit it because of lack of resources, GECK is literally created to deal with that sort of threats and with the Sierra Madre technology they can mass produce this (Altho only one or two should be needed, let alone a hundred)

To do that, the catachans have to essentially wage a constant war against the local environment (not wildlife, environment, even plants on Catachan can bring down a building in short order), which they inevitably lose and have to relocate somewhere else. It's like the planet knows they're there and is actively trying to drive them away.

Yeah and Catachan typically keep it all at bay with simple flame throwers

You keep focusing on "lol, humans in T-shirts", when the issue isn't if you can survive on catachan minute to minute (also, for many, many residents of catachan, the answer to that question is no, so the "survive daily life" bar is actually set well above dudes in T-shirts), it's if you can stay alive long term and actually settle it. While also having to contend with the local IG, who aren't going to to just sit by and let you try to get a foothold before they attack you, BTW.

If they're not in their home fortress they'll have to be in the forest, small groups (large groups would set off Barking Toads and they don't field robots) incapable of supplying any large offensives or heavy armor or artillery.

Attacking any entrenched Military force of Fallout will make short work of them with advanced sensors and nigh recoiless laser weapons that can and will one shot them regardless of their work out regime.

Additional, you are not considering that having the technological capability to counter what catachan can throw at you is not the same as having the knowledge to apply it in that role.

They have sixteen years and are with composite technology, most of the technology they already have to handle existing threats similar to this

Unless somehow the Military forgot the use and purpose of scouts they can just send Duraframe Eyebots and Robo Scorpions, which can kill any Minor threats such as the man eating plants which aren't below their pay grade.

Sure, fallout can eventually figure out how to survive on catachan and deal with the hazards, but if they'll do so before running out of time is a different question. It'll only take one mistake for thier beachhead to collapse, and they'll have a lot of mistakes to make.

Uh no they don't, they have enough Military presence to Occupy Canada and large sections of China while simultaneously dealing with large domestic disturbances across USA all at once.

With how automated their industry is (Red Rocket was 100% automated for the bulk of the East Coast)

And how big their economy is ($7.5 million the estimated costs for the raw material costs of an armored division) and known budget to supply the costs for over a hundred vaults (122) costing each around 150 billion dollars and possessing fabrication factories that can produce a robot every 8 minutes non stop for four days straight

They can substantially boost their presence with large amounts of automation which would constitute the bulk of their forces, the Catachan are likely to fight more robots and synths before they reach actually biological crew to fight


They can easily afford to lose one hundred drones to one, then just recycle any that are destroyed.

For example, you argued that the barking toad is a none-issue because lol robots. Let's ignore that your plan to clear them out just blithely assumes the robots won't get mulched by one of the hundreds of other predators on catachan on thier way to go get rid of the toads.

Please give me a list of Predators that would not only be interested in attacking non biological forms but also be powerful enough to destroy the robot before it can detect it with advanced sensors and destroy it with its own laser rifle fire?

Unless you're trying to imply every inch is covered with Devil Catachan (Which can be escaped on foot by peak athletes)

How many times is the fallout armies beachhead going to go up in a fireball before they figure out the root cause is an exploding frog?

Send Robot Scorpion ahead because scouting and reconnaissance is a basic military tactic, see on camera through the robo scorpions system that a toad blows up and the cloud kills all vegetation.

Make it a priority to have robots clear out biological mines. Problem solved

This has a camera with livefeed, man eating Venus fly traps with spores and vines are not going to OHK it especially when we know it can already fend off groups of Protectors and their limb dismemberment lasers with little issue.

Because I'm betting on it being a fairly common issue for them, particularly since anyone in a position to actually see the toad detonating won't live to report it.

Nah what probably happens is they clear the area by burning it down just like how it works and canonically is done in Catachan then they irradiate some tens of kilometers outskirts of the facility so bad that nothing biological on foot and outside the pacification field can get within one hundred miles with out dying from severe radiation poisoning by the time they reached the various established defenses and mine fields.

If by some miracle it gets passed the radiation and mines and automated robotic armored divisions and conventional artillery then they would to deal with Aerial and Ortillery bombardment with mini-nukes and other such heavy anti tank weaponry and then somehow no sell a recalibrated pacification field at that.

But considering flame throwers and high walls are more than sufficient to keep anything short of a Devil Catachan away it shouldn't be a problem

 

[King Arts]

I don't know why Y'all are fighting soo much, it's pretty obvious that Catachan makes no damn sense at all. It's either steeped in the warp or it's not actually quite as bad as some of the idiots who wrote it say it is. I mean the worst part that nuclear toad that explodes if it gets spooked or injured or killed. Imagine that thing if they actually existed on a planet they would life wipe it in short order. Because once one of them explodes the fuck off huge explosion would cause a ripple effect that causes more nuclear toads that get caught in the explosion. Then there would be more nuclear explosion and keep going.

 

[Scooby Doo]

I don't know why Y'all are fighting soo much, it's pretty obvious that Catachan makes no damn sense at all. It's either steeped in the warp or it's not actually quite as bad as some of the idiots who wrote it say it is. I mean the worst part that nuclear toad that explodes if it gets spooked or injured or killed. Imagine that thing if they actually existed on a planet they would life wipe it in short order. Because once one of them explodes the fuck off huge explosion would cause a ripple effect that causes more nuclear toads that get caught in the explosion. Then there would be more nuclear explosion and keep going.

Yeah I just wanted to see how people would argue how technology can help counter the threats of the planet but everyone's saying it's impossible but the only people have tried were poorly equipped to handle the environment.


FO has Filters more advanced than what's used to create sterile environments in surgical rooms.
HEPA 20 cartridge filter