Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a discussion thread and retrospective

[Cyan Saiyajin]

I'm mildly tempted to write a fic where Xander tries the typical 'fuse the hyena, soldier and fishman!' Thing and then just fucks it up and mutates himself. Sick of seeing that shit.

Already done and iirc, it was by an sber. He just gets turned into a gillman and wanders off.

The casual way it's done. I don't mind powering him up; haven't seen it done well as of yet though. Xander getting superpowers should be a dammed impactful thin that comes with some negatives.

I remember reading one where a wizard 'enhanced' the soldier and Hyena in him so that their 'instincts' were always active and the result was a Xander that just casually became a combat god rather than considering the concept of being constantly on edge with a predatory spirit and a soldier in his head 'reeeeeeeing' that the trees are speaking vietnamese.

Are you talking about Hunter by Psyckosama? Because honestly it was a really good story. And I mean I feel like giving the spells Ethan has pulled off in the past making the spell with little downsides isn't that much of a stretch.

 

[Spartan303]

Already done and iirc, it was by an sber. He just gets turned into a gillman and wanders off.



Are you talking about Hunter by Psyckosama? Because honestly it was a really good story. And I mean I feel like giving the spells Ethan has pulled off in the past making the spell with little downsides isn't that much of a stretch.

@Psyckosama did a phenomenal job on that story. It felt true to the setting.

 

[Janus]

I wish Buffy had a gay male warlock or something in it as a main character. That would have been great. BTVS never caught my eye as a teenager though.

 

[Abhorsen]

I wish Buffy had a gay male warlock or something in it as a main character. That would have been great. BTVS never caught my eye as a teenager though.

Andrew Wells.

 

[Spartan303]

Andrew Wells.

They never came right out and said it, but yes.

 

[Senor Hortler]

Andrew Wells.

They never came right out and said it, but yes.

I dunno if Andrew was gay so much as he was incredibly confused and attached to Warren as an idol figure. They didn't really portray any gay male characters that were in a healthy relationship. Willow and Tara's was a trainwreck from start to finish, but she got a decent gig out of it in the end. Andrew latched onto a lunatic who abused, used and casually discarded him; and then murdered his best friend. If he was gay it wasn't the most stellar portrayal.

 

[Spartan303]

I dunno if Andrew was gay so much as he was incredibly confused and attached to Warren as an idol figure. They didn't really portray any gay male characters that were in a healthy relationship. Willow and Tara's was a trainwreck from start to finish, but she got a decent gig out of it in the end. Andrew latched onto a lunatic who abused, used and casually discarded him; and then murdered his best friend. If he was gay it wasn't the most stellar portrayal.

They dont come right out and say it but pretty much every fanfic I've read post Chosen has him gay. Hell, one story did it in grand style and also involved Buffy...not sure if I should mention it here...

 

[Abhorsen]

They dont come right out and say it but pretty much every fanfic I've read post Chosen has him gay. Hell, one story did it in grand style and also involved Buffy...not sure if I should mention it here...

From a quick wikipedia search, apparently he comes out in the official fanfic season 10 as well.

 

[Senor Hortler]

They dont come right out and say it but pretty much every fanfic I've read post Chosen has him gay. Hell, one story did it in grand style and also involved Buffy...not sure if I should mention it here...

From a quick wikipedia search, apparently he comes out in the official fanfic season 10 as well.

That's a pretty shitty representation then.

Oh Larry's gay isn't he? I always forget him, he gets eaten by the Mayor though...a giant snake...Something feels freudian about that.

 

[Spartan303]

From a quick wikipedia search, apparently he comes out in the official fanfic season 10 as well.

I think that was just the writers acknowledging what everyone long suspected.

That's a pretty shitty representation then.

Oh Larry's gay isn't he? I always forget him, he gets eaten by the Mayor though...a giant snake...Something feels freudian about that.

Yeah, in the story I mentioned, Buffy was dating the Immortal and living the high life. She decided to drop in on him unannounced and catches him going to town...on Andrew. Buffy is shocked and bewildered by this while the immortal announces he's Gay and it took his relationship with Buffy to figure that out. Harsh.

 

[Abhorsen]

That's a pretty shitty representation then.

Oh Larry's gay isn't he? I always forget him, he gets eaten by the Mayor though...a giant snake...Something feels freudian about that.

For the 90s? That was a lot. Also, having every other character be gay is a lot, when not focused on a gay person. I mean, at best, 1/10 of the population is same sex attracted in some amount. Given that, 2 gay guys would have proportional representation for 18 confirmed straight guys, then that's not even counting all of the people who never specified who they were into. I don't see a problem here.

 

[Christi]

I think that was just the writers acknowledging what everyone long suspected.




Yeah, in the story I mentioned, Buffy was dating the Immortal and living the high life. She decided to drop in on him unannounced and catches him going to town...on Andrew. Buffy is shocked and bewildered by this while the immortal announces he's Gay and it took his relationship with Buffy to figure that out. Harsh.

That was harsh but funny as hell. I feel bad about it but I laughed hard.

But every relationship on that show was all kinds of fucked up.
The most normal relationship Buffy had was with Finn the guy that cheated on her with a hooker.

 

[Ash's Boomstick]

The most normal relationship Buffy had was with Finn the guy that cheated on her with several vampire hookers.

FTFY

 

[Ash's Boomstick]

I will always claim (Given its where I also started writing fic) that a Buffy/Xander relationship would have worked for them both a lot better than anything we saw on screen.

 

[Spartan303]

I will always claim (Given its where I also started writing fic) that a Buffy/Xander relationship would have worked for them both a lot better than anything we saw on screen.

That was the original plan for Season 7. A sort of bringing Buffy 'back into the light' something Nick and Sara had approached Joss with. Then he did an abrupt 180 because of the Spike fangirls. Literally.

 

[IceWing_mk1]

I will always claim (Given its where I also started writing fic) that a Buffy/Xander relationship would have worked for them both a lot better than anything we saw on screen.

Hey Ash (who, I have to say I've 'known' you since before I was on SB, being an old xanderzoner myself), I can say I pretty much agreed with you when we both started writing, but as the seasons progressed, it became clear that Buffy was suffering from a combination of traumatic events and, frankly, a bit of narcissism. I think that at a certain point, they no longer WOULD work in a relationship. I think that X/C or X\D might have had a better long term chance. X\F COULD have worked, but frankly Faith needed the counseling she got in prison to be able to have a healthy relationship, given her own traumatic past.

That was the original plan for Season 7. A sort of bringing Buffy 'back into the light' something Nick and Sara had approached Joss with. Then he did an abrupt 180 because of the Spike fangirls. Literally.

Honestly, was it Joss? Or Marti? Season 7, Marti was busy running the show into the ground while Joss was working on other projects?

 

[Spartan303]

Honestly, was it Joss? Or Marti? Season 7, Marti was busy running the show into the ground while Joss was working on other projects?

I heard it was more Joss than Marti. But Marti certainly had a major role in it. For Joss, Xander was supposed to never get the girl. And the Spuffy fans were being super annoying. So Joss apparently made the decision to give em what they wanted.

 

[IceWing_mk1]

I heard it was more Joss than Marti. But Marti certainly had a major role in it. For Joss, Xander was supposed to never get the girl. And the Spuffy fans were being super annoying. So Joss apparently made the decision to give em what they wanted.

Marti Noxin was pretty much responsible for all of the Xander butt monkey plot lines from what I've heard. And, when you figure that Xander was also the quintessential everyman, it may indicate some deepseated beliefs she holds regarding people.

Beyond that, you know, maybe it's time that showrunners and writers have characters that are actually somewhat decent role models, as opposed to attempted rapists (spike) being portrayed as heroes while they pander to the desires of people who have no life experience and sure as hell wouldn't want the consequences that would result from being in relationships with monsters who have at best a passing connection with humanity. 'Oh, I want the bad boy, I can fix him' is a trope, and not that there can't be improvement in people, but the correct response to inhuman monsters, be they human or vampire, is to stake them or run like hell, not date them.

 

[Ash's Boomstick]

Hey Ash (who, I have to say I've 'known' you since before I was on SB, being an old xanderzoner myself), I can say I pretty much agreed with you when we both started writing, but as the seasons progressed, it became clear that Buffy was suffering from a combination of traumatic events and, frankly, a bit of narcissism. I think that at a certain point, they no longer WOULD work in a relationship. I think that X/C or X\D might have had a better long term chance. X\F COULD have worked, but frankly Faith needed the counseling she got in prison to be able to have a healthy relationship, given her own traumatic past.


Honestly, was it Joss? Or Marti? Season 7, Marti was busy running the show into the ground while Joss was working on other projects?

Indeed we have IceWing, I remember your work and our convos about it. I did have most of it copied down but lost it when I lost ninety percent of my BTVS archive.

I think they did have a chance at a relationship at least until S5 with a very slim chance beginning S7 when there was that time they almost seemed to be a family, but as mentioned Buffy had some deep seated resentments and more than a few screws loose as she had been allowed to get away with far too much without incident. (Bad writing as usual).

Faith and Xander I can also get behind but again I think she has far too much in her background to really allow for a steady and healthy relationship between the two, she needed a friend more than anything and he could very easily have been that instead.

 

[Tiamat]

I might have said this before already, but is it wrong for me to say that the characters of BTVS, and indeed, the show itself, would have SERIOUSLY benefited from some actual halfway-decent adult figures to help the kids guide them out of their messes?

Not knocking on Giles, but they didn't make him as assertive as he should have been I noticed. Jenny...Jenny Calendar would have been an AWESOME addition to the Scooby Gang, instead....they made her a sacrifice to Angel. Riley was meh. Angel and Spike....enough said about those two. And as usual, the rest of the adults were either clueless or complete idiots as per Whedon, or perhaps to appeal to the egos of BTVS's teenage audience.