Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
That cluster munition treaty is outright pointless, No major power signed it. Really no one outside of Africa and Western Europe signed it.
Boomstick's and shooty shooty bang bang's - The GUN Thread!
- Thread starter Kobold
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That cluster munition treaty is outright pointless, No major power signed it. Really no one outside of Africa and Western Europe signed it.
What exactly is the text and context of this "exploding bullet" international agreement?
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
It's the St. Petersburg Declaration https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/st-petersburg-decl-1868 which prohibits the use of explosive or incendiary projectiles under 400 grams (these days it's understood as not using such projectiles against people), which was then expanded in Hague Conventions The Avalon Project : Laws of War - Declaration on the Use of Bullets Which Expand or Flatten Easily in the Human Body; July 29, 1899 to also include hollow point and soft tip rounds (because Brits ended up on the receiving end in Boer War).
SO the US decided to make sure we use a bullet that's light and is guaranteed to bounce around inside the human body before leaving. SO much better.
And as someone else pointed out, these sort of treaties tend to favor the existing power structure- that is the major nations/empires of the time, over the smaller nations.
Not saying that necessarily wrong or right, just that if said power structure start behaving in an unhealthy manner people start to get…innovative. Just in case.
SO the US decided to make sure we use a bullet that's light and is guaranteed to bounce around inside the human body before leaving. SO much better.
You got to put yourself in the position of a man whose been shot by a 20mm autocannon round. That's pretty bad... but imagine if it exploded! You might be even more seriously hurt! There's a chance you might even die!
No thanks. Not putting myself in that position.
Steyr fucking finally gets around to announcing the thing they've had on the box for years now:
.300 Blackout AUGs/barrels officially coming to US. No release date, but a 6 position gas regulator (normal, low velocity, adverse, adverse+, adverse++, off) confirmed. Official NATO stock with bolt release may also be coming.
.300 Blackout AUGs/barrels officially coming to US. No release date, but a 6 position gas regulator (normal, low velocity, adverse, adverse+, adverse++, off) confirmed. Official NATO stock with bolt release may also be coming.
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Bullpups are the stupid concept that refuses to fuck off completely.
Bullpups have a definite niche. They can provide a long barrel weapon for accuracy in a very short frame. Makes it really handy (see what I did there?) in urban environments. It's one reason the Israelis went with one in their Tavor.
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Their trigger linkages are still pretty crappy and then you have the problem of their weird ergonomics when it comes to a magazine swap. The second issue could be solved with training I suppose but the first issue is something that there just really isn't a fix for.
There is, it's just that no one can make one in the US because ATF.
It's a solenoid FCG.
That said, the AUG has been getting a lot of new aftermarket attention from small startups like ARID and Titus 3D2A, who've been making a decent amount of trigger related parts that reduce the slop and force required to engage the sear.
Tiamat
I've seen the future...
Ahem....the following countries would highly disagree with you about bullpup rifles being "stupid concepts":
Austria
Australia
Belgium
Colombia
Croatia
France
India
Indonesia
Ireland
Singapore
Slovenia
UK (Yeah, the SA80/L85 originally sucked pretty hard but it supposedly has gotten a redo from H&K)
That said, all those countries and a few others are using bullpup weapons in some capacity or another. I recall US ICE was using the Steyr AUG for a while as well before switching to M4's.
Also, myself am the proud owner of an Israeli made (Civilian model) Tavor X-95. Yes, it takes a little practice to get used to the means of reloading, but by far it's my favorite personal long rifle, and I own several AR's.
So no, bullpups are not a stupid concept, they're actually quite legitimate.
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Okay and when have any of those countries actually fought a serious conflict that would put the effectiveness of those to the test?
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
SA80 after two rebuilds only sucks instead sucking real bad.
F2000 is rather disliked by soldiers of Slovenian army, due to bad ergonomics and tendency to lose mechanism parts (do not try to crawl with it).
Tellingly SF in both countries do not use bulpup rifles.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Uh...
Croatian War of Independence - Wikipedia
VHS rifle is literally built based on feedback of Croatian soldiers from the war. Development in fact started during the war, and both bullpup and non-bullpup versions were tested.
The Iraqis got and used a ton of VHS-2s, the Israelis use the Tavor all the time in their forever war with the Palestinians.
