United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

[Megadeath]

-Snip-
There was no threat of the Taliban doing that... Because it would have resulted in the US sending in 60,000+ troops with orders to exterminate the Taliban...

Seriously? Because, ya know, last time America decided to throw money and man power at the idea of destroying the Taliban it worked SO FUCKING WELL? The decision to try exactly that is exactly what lead to this moment! Do you really think that the Taliban are scared of pissing off America? They've just shown pretty fucking conclusively that they can survive a couple decades of American ire if they think their goal is worth it.

 

[Zachowon]

Seriously? Because, ya know, last time America decided to throw money and man power at the idea of destroying the Taliban it worked SO FUCKING WELL? The decision to try exactly that is exactly what lead to this moment! Do you really think that the Taliban are scared of pissing off America? They've just shown pretty fucking conclusively that they can survive a couple decades of American ire if they think their goal is worth it.

You mean how they ran tail between thoer legs to Pakistan because we obliterated them?

 

[Megadeath]

You mean how they ran tail between thoer legs to Pakistan because we obliterated them?

You mean, how the US armed forces just ran home, tail between their legs and let the whole country fall to the organisation they spent 20 years failing to destroy?

 

[Zachowon]

You mean, how the US armed forces just ran home, tail between their legs and let the whole country fall to the organisation they spent 20 years failing to destroy?

You mean how the US left and the people they spent painstakingly training for 20 years collapsed quickly.
The Taliban only succeeded against US forces when we had no air support and too complacent.
Has they overran the airport, we would have damn near reinvaded and kicked them back to Pakistan

 

[Marduk]

You mean, how the US armed forces just ran home, tail between their legs and let the whole country fall to the organisation they spent 20 years failing to destroy?

You mean Afghanistan was unwilling and unable to pay USA protection money, in fact, if anything, USA was paying big for the privilege of being allowed to protect Afghanistan from the Taliban?

But yes, USA has failed to destroy the Taliban.
Why? Because for whatever reason, like it or not, USA didn't even try to destroy Pakistan, which is where they sheltered when things got tough for them, which is a whole another can of worm.

 

[Megadeath]

You mean how the US left and the people they spent painstakingly training for 20 years collapsed quickly.
The Taliban only succeeded against US forces when we had no air support and too complacent.
Has they overran the airport, we would have damn near reinvaded and kicked them back to Pakistan

You mean how the most developed and prosperous nation on earth ran like cowards from people living in caves? If you spend 20 years training your replacement and they fold on the first day you're gone, you did a shitty job of training. Like how you did a shitty job conquering, pacifying, infiltrating or exfiltrating. In short, you did a shitty job all 'round.

What's worse, I say that as a foreigner with a firm belief and support for the Pax Americana. I want you guys to win. I vastly prefer it to the other options I see. But that doesn't mean I can't see you screwed the pooch.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Seriously? Because, ya know, last time America decided to throw money and man power at the idea of destroying the Taliban it worked SO FUCKING WELL? The decision to try exactly that is exactly what lead to this moment! Do you really think that the Taliban are scared of pissing off America? They've just shown pretty fucking conclusively that they can survive a couple decades of American ire if they think their goal is worth it.

Of course they're scared of American ire. The Taliban don't want to be re-invaded and endure another twenty years of dinking about in the border areas. There's a reason they didn't try to give overrunning the Airport (and even stayed out of Kabul until the Biden Administration said they could come in) and their Representatives in Qatar and the like keep talking about being a new Taliban. They don't want a war with America and going through all of this all over again.

 

[Megadeath]

You mean Afghanistan was unwilling and unable to pay USA protection money, in fact, if anything, USA was paying big for the privilege of being allowed to protect Afghanistan from the Taliban?

But yes, USA has failed to destroy the Taliban.
Why? Because for whatever reason, like it or not, USA didn't even try to destroy Pakistan, which is where they sheltered when things got tough for them, which is a whole another can of worm.

So... "Excuse, excuse, reason." The Taliban were a terrible enough threat for America to invade one country, and throw money and lives at the problem for 20+ years, but because some people in fucking Pakistan liked them, the USA can't do shit? Wow.

 

[Megadeath]

Of course they're scared of American ire. The Taliban don't want to be re-invaded and endure another twenty years of dinking about in the border areas. There's a reason they didn't try to give overrunning the Airport (and even stayed out of Kabul until the Biden Administration said they could come in) and their Representatives in Qatar and the like keep talking about being a new Taliban. They don't want a war with America and going through all of this all over again.

Of course they don't want to. But it seems like Americans are just as scared of it as they are, with far less excuse.

 

[Husky_Khan]

What's worse, I say that as a foreigner with a firm belief and support for the Pax Americana. I want you guys to win. I vastly prefer it to the other options I see. But that doesn't mean I can't see you screwed the pooch.

Of course they don't want to. But it seems like Americans are just as scared of it as they are, with far less excuse.

The "fear" of the Taliban had nothing to do with the 2018 talks. The main thing was a literally endless war where $300 million dollars was circling down the toilet constantly for no actual benefit except your bullshit "PAX AMERICANA" nonsense which was relevant twenty years ago.

Most of the actual discussion is around how staying around for another decade after Bin Laden was killed was a mistake. Or how shifting from Counter-Terrorism operations to Counter-Insurgency back in 2002 was the wrong shift to make. You can keep bases in Afghanistan and let them sort out their own shit while maintaining a counter-terrorism force instead of being the new Afghan Army and government. And of course how Biden handled the evacuation ever so admirably.

Like your alternative is, oh just stay there forever and throw money at it. The only other option then perpetual war in Afghanistan is YOUR SCARED of the Taliban. What a foreign policy.

 

[Zachowon]

You mean how the most developed and prosperous nation on earth ran like cowards from people living in caves? If you spend 20 years training your replacement and they fold on the first day you're gone, you did a shitty job of training. Like how you did a shitty job conquering, pacifying, infiltrating or exfiltrating. In short, you did a shitty job all 'round.

What's worse, I say that as a foreigner with a firm belief and support for the Pax Americana. I want you guys to win. I vastly prefer it to the other options I see. But that doesn't mean I can't see you screwed the pooch.

You can only train those willing to he trained

 

[Marduk]

So... "Excuse, excuse, reason." The Taliban were a terrible enough threat for America to invade one country,

Imagine arguing about Afghanistan while not being able to tell the difference between the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

and throw money and lives at the problem for 20+ years, but because some people in fucking Pakistan liked them, the USA can't do shit? Wow.

Welcome to western politics. Apparently no, turns out even the supposedly bloodthirsty Republican presidents didn't have the guts to decide that a certain nuclear power needs to have the bullshit beaten out of it.

 

[Megadeath]

The "fear" of the Taliban had nothing to do with the 2018 talks. The main thing was a literally endless war where $300 million dollars was circling down the toilet constantly for no actual benefit except your bullshit "PAX AMERICANA" nonsense which was relevant twenty years ago.

Most of the actual discussion is around how staying around for another decade after Bin Laden was killed was a mistake. Or how shifting from Counter-Terrorism operations to Counter-Insurgency back in 2002 was the wrong shift to make. You can keep bases in Afghanistan and let them sort out their own shit while maintaining a counter-terrorism force instead of being the new Afghan Army and government. And of course how Biden handled the evacuation ever so admirably.

Like your alternative is, oh just stay there forever and throw money at it. The only other option then perpetual war in Afghanistan is YOUR SCARED of the Taliban. What a foreign policy.

So... I was right in the first place to say that sending in the armed forces with orders to destroy the Taliban was pointless? Ya know, because they failed that mission and it became a "forever war"?

You can only train those willing to he trained

So then, I'm right that they wasted decades under republicans in exchange for nothing?

Imagine arguing about Afghanistan while not being able to tell the difference between the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

Welcome to western politics. Apparently no, turns out even the supposedly bloodthirsty Republican presidents didn't have the guts to decide that a certain nuclear power needs to have the bullshit beaten out of it.

Lol, so if only Al-Qaeda were the issue, what's with the big upset about the Taliban taking over? If the Taliban are such cool buddies, why didn't we chum up with them ages ago? If they're not cool and we're just making the best of a bad situation, why didn't we accept it so long ago? If it's so easy to crush them and they really are that bad, why didn't we?

 

[Zachowon]

So... I was right in the first place to say that sending in the armed forces with orders to destroy the Taliban was pointless? Ya know, because they failed that mission and it became a "forever war"?


So then, I'm right that they wasted decades under republicans in exchange for nothing?


Lol, so if only Al-Qaeda were the issue, what's with the big upset about the Taliban taking over? If the Taliban are such cool buddies, why didn't we chum up with them ages ago? If they're not cool and we're just making the best of a bad situation, why didn't we accept it so long ago? If it's so easy to crush them and they really are that bad, why didn't we?

So 8 years under Obama who did nothing but INCREASE the number of people there.
Trump was in the works of pulling us out back in April and May

 

[Husky_Khan]

Lol, so if only Al-Qaeda were the issue, what's with the big upset about the Taliban taking over? If the Taliban are such cool buddies, why didn't we chum up with them ages ago? If they're not cool and we're just making the best of a bad situation, why didn't we accept it so long ago? If it's so easy to crush them and they really are that bad, why didn't we?

I understand your just trolling and discussing this in bad faith by acting intentionally stupid but you see Al Qaeda was inside the country of Afghanistan which the Taliban controlled Megadeath.

But that's a good point, why didn't Bush or Obama accept it so long ago? At least Trump saw the reality of the Forever War and actually made an effort of putting an end to it and then Biden was able to masterfully watch over it in the End Zone.

 

[Marduk]

Lol, so if only Al-Qaeda were the issue, what's with the big upset about the Taliban taking over? If the Taliban are such cool buddies, why didn't we chum up with them ages ago? If they're not cool and we're just making the best of a bad situation, why didn't we accept it so long ago? If it's so easy to crush them and they really are that bad, why didn't we?

Because they said no. The Taliban were in control of most of Afghanistan for years before 9/11. What did USA do about them? Nothing.
USA even negotiated with them before the war. But they refused to hand over Osama and company. If they did it, there would be no war. That was the problem. Obviously not a relevant one anymore. They are just a bunch of not very important asshole islamists in Central Asia. Not a huge deal in the regional consideration of far better armed and more asshole islamists to the south and to the west of them.

 

[Megadeath]

So 8 years under Obama who did nothing but INCREASE the number of people there.
Trump was in the works of pulling us out back in April and May

And Biden actually reduced that number to 0. If that's your measure of success, what's your complaint? Funny how the threat to Americans was apparently less when Obama had people over there hitting them, than it is when we pull everyone out and give them a secure base to attack from. Didn't you say that was the whole problem with Pakistan?

I understand your just trolling and discussing this in bad faith by acting intentionally stupid but you see Al Qaeda was inside the country of Afghanistan which the Taliban controlled Megadeath.

But that's a good point, why didn't Bush or Obama accept it so long ago? At least Trump saw the reality of the Forever War and actually made an effort of putting an end to it and then Biden was able to masterfully watch over it in the End Zone.

No, I'm not trolling. I'm using grumpy and shitty rhetoric coz it's the best I get from anyone here so I'm not going to try harder outside of PM'S where people make an effort.

As to the point, I'm sure you're smart enough to answer for yourself. Surely you don't need me to manage both sides of the Socratic dialogue?

Because they said no. The Taliban were in control of most of Afghanistan for years before 9/11. What did USA do about them? Nothing.
USA even negotiated with them before the war. But they refused to hand over Osama and company. If they did it, there would be no war. That was the problem. Obviously not a relevant one anymore. They are just a bunch of not very important asshole islamists in Central Asia. Not a huge deal in the regional consideration of far better armed and more asshole islamists to the south and to the west of them.

Well then, if they're such a nothing burger it's a little sad to see so many up in arms about it?

 

[Zachowon]

And Biden actually reduced that number to 0. If that's your measure of success, what's your complaint? Funny how the threat to Americans was apparently less when Obama had people over there hitting them, than it is when we pull everyone out and give them a secure base to attack from. Didn't you say that was the whole problem with Pakistan?


No, I'm not trolling. I'm using grumpy and shitty rhetoric coz it's the best I get from anyone here so I'm not going to try harder outside of PM'S where people make an effort.

As to the point, I'm sure you're smart enough to answer for yourself. Surely you don't need me to manage both sides of the Socratic dialogue?


Well then, if they're such a nothing burger it's a little sad to see so many up in arms about it?

Obama increased the effort to nation build. Once we killed Osama he should have pulled us out.
Trump was going to make our departure have zero casualties to Americans or civilians, and would have also destroyed any equipment left by the ANA or US.
But all Biden did was say pull everyone out. Leave the easiest defensible position, to a horrible spot. And let's leave americans

 

[Megadeath]

Obama increased the effort to nation build. Once we killed Osama he should have pulled us out.
Trump was going to make our departure have zero casualties to Americans or civilians, and would have also destroyed any equipment left by the ANA or US.
But all Biden did was say pull everyone out. Leave the easiest defensible position, to a horrible spot. And let's leave americans

Trump had 4 years to do what you say should have been done before he even came to office. If the problem is that 4 years isn't enough to engineer it, it's stupid to be mad that Biden couldn't manage it in less than one year like he had to to meet trumps capitulation.

 

[Marduk]

Well then, if they're such a nothing burger it's a little sad to see so many up in arms about it?

Some wanted to keep making money on being middlemen in paying Afghanistan to protect itself.
Some wanted to keep making money on pushing woke causes in Afghanistan and having US government pay for it.
Some are just making preemptive argument to let all the Afghans move to the west while still sending money there for "humanitarian" reasons.
And some don't care about any of the above, just pissed that the withdrawal was poorly organized and delayed, not that it happened or that the Taliban took over after.