Atheists and Evangelical Christians join forces against Intersectional Social Justice

LifeisTiresome

Well-known member

"
The unholy alliance between atheists and evangelicals
Is social justice a civilizational and eternal threat?

The setting was the Gladstone Library, a dramatic, imposing room named after one of Britain’s most cherished politicians, though on closer inspection, its grandeur was somewhat faded. Ornate faïence-tiled columns held up lofty, sculpted ceilings punctuated with chandeliers above mahogany shelves along the room’s perimeter lined with faithful replicas of the 30,000 volumes spanning 17th- to 20th-century political material now safely housed at the University of Bristol.

In many ways, this staid, cavernous hall filled with ersatz books at the very heart of the National Liberal Club established by William Gladstone himself is the perfect metaphor for the state of liberalism today. Which brings us to why an unlikely crew of atheists, secularists and evangelical Christians were gathered here on a balmy Sunday October morning. Instead of bedlam, there was unity and congeniality. At stake, it seemed, was the complete takedown of liberalism and, with it, Western civilization.

The conference, organized by Sovereign Nations and titled ‘Speaking Truth to Social Justice,’ featured the masterminds behind the so-called ‘Sokal Squared’ scandal: Helen Pluckrose, Peter Boghossian, and James A. Lindsay. Its name is a nod to an earlier hoax, which parodied the extreme postmodernist criticism of science, perpetuated by physicist Alan Sokal, who graced the occasion with his presence. Last year, the three current and former academics, who are prominent speakers in atheist and humanist circles, published bogus research papers in several academic disciplines — gender studies, queer theory, critical race theory, intersectional feminism, fat studies and postcolonial theory — to highlight the charlatanism and obscurantism that stand in for scholarship, the lack of academic rigor and flaws in the publishing protocols of these fields. Some of the hoax papers they submitted border on outright hilarity. One published paper suggested that dog parks perpetuate ‘canine rape culture’ while another was basically Mein Kampf dressed up in intersectional feminist lingo. The trio popularized the term ‘grievance studies’ to refer to these fields because, according to Pluckrose, they begin ‘from the assumption of a grievance’ and then bend ‘theories to confirm it.’

They found in Michael O’Fallon, the evangelical Christian founder and editor-in-chief of Sovereign Nations, an ally who is likewise deeply concerned about our postmodern era in which ‘grand narratives that have guided our discourse are collapsing.’ What he fears is the encroachment of the secular theoretical perspectives that undergird social justice upon the gospel and the church, weaponizing identity to upend the Christian interpretation of doctrine.

And so an unholy alliance between a bunch of atheists and evangelical Christians was born.
Having the inaugural conference dedicated to defending liberalism in a venue named after the ‘Grand Old Man’ of liberalism could not have been more symbolic. William Ewart Gladstone was a four-term British prime minister whose political doctrine centered around ‘peace, economy and reform.’ He instituted laissez-faire economic policies and free trade, extended voting rights, promoted equality of opportunity and self-governance of Britain’s colonies and disestablished the Church of Ireland (so that Roman Catholics no longer had to pay tithes to support the Anglican Church), among other reforms, and was an early if ultimately unsuccessful advocate for ‘Home Rule’ for Ireland.

Deeply religious with an evangelical sensibility, Gladstone served under Queen Victoria in a society shaken up by the publication of Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species, in which the theory of natural selection was pitted against the reigning theory of creation in an epistemological zero-sum game. The Victorian age might have been characterized by an ever-widening rift between science and religion, but it was during this time, in the grand quarters of the Gladstone Library, that two unlikely members of the National Liberal Club met and bonded: George Bernard Shaw, the Irish atheist playwright and polemicist, and G.K. Chesterton, the English writer and theologian whose work in Christian apologetics needs no introduction. These two men of great stature often engaged in intellectual sparring, but they were also friends, each recognizing in the other a common humanity through jokes and banter and harboring a respect for the other’s colossal genius.

Today, this state of affairs between two such people holding diametrically opposed views seems almost quaint. Both O’Fallon and the grievance studies authors have come to realize that the post-Victorian culture war is no longer about metaphysics, the supernatural realm or miracles. They have come together to defend what Boghossian calls the ‘rules of engagement’ and cognitive liberty, the very forces that enabled the warm friendship between Shaw and Chesterton despite their occupying antagonistic sides of an ideological axis.

Principled-based rules of engagement create an environment in which dialogue can be fostered and cultivate a culture that values freedom of speech and dialectics that eschew ad hominem attacks and mischaracterization.
They begin with, according to James Lindsay, ‘putting forth the best arguments from opposing and differing sides in the best-possible faith, and seeking understanding and communication across divides.’ To him, this is the way to preserve all that is good and effective about free liberal societies that tolerate and welcome differences of opinion. Those societies seem to be under threat, given recent headlines about the rise of cancel culture and public debates about the moral validity of punching Nazis and hurling milkshakes at people with whom we disagree.

According to Boghossian, the fault lines in Culture War 2.0 center around the correspondence theory of truth and the role that intersectionality ought to play into our worldview. The correspondence theory of truth states that that there is a ‘truth’ and that our beliefs correspond to a stable, knowable world. Intersectionality is the idea that there are intersecting identities that comprise one’s identity (e.g., lesbian, white, disabled, etc.) that contribute to a framework of power dynamics and moral hierarchy. Much of social justice ideology and activism is predicated on intersectionality and standpoint epistemology, which in contrast to the correspondence theory states that it is one’s position in a system that determines what’s true. A liberal atheist, Boghossian says that ‘if the conservative Christians at the conference believe Jesus walked on water (that either is or is not true for everyone regardless of one’s race or gender) and they value discourse and adhere to basic rules of engagement, then they are closer to my worldview than an atheist who’s adopted intersectionality and does not adhere to the rules of engagement.’

These views are causing a schism in every walk of life, from knitting clubs to religious organizations. It’s ripping apart Christianity as the church grapples with what O’Fallon has characterized as a postmodern crisis. Intersectional Christians believe one must examine scripture through an intersectional lens and have adopted tactics from their secular counterparts to protect these ideas from scrutiny.

The deeper problem is that wherever intersectionality goes, cognitive liberty is lost. One can no longer pursue truth and seek it for oneself; one must subscribe to the new secular dogma of intersectionality or risk being labeled a heretic or blasphemer. And there are a multitude of speech and thought-policing mechanisms to assure that intersectionality takes root: Bias Response Teams, political correctness, Offices of Diversity and Inclusion, safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc. Taboos and stigma attached to running afoul of the moral orthodoxy eliminate the rhetorical space that allows these ideas to be critiqued, further entrenching the moral orthodoxy itself. The evening was perfectly capped off with an appearance by Andrew Doyle, the columnist and comic behind the woke parody Twitter account Titania McGrath. Doyle’s satire has been so on-point that on a few occasions, Titania’s feed has been more prophetic than parody.

When the Sovereign Nations conference was first announced, Richard Dawkins signal boosted it on Twitter, only to be dogpiled by critics accusing the ‘new atheists’ of aligning themselves with right-wing Christian fundamentalists. The grievance studies authors had to contend with myriad charges of ‘grifting,’ an overused slur virtually impossible to dispute. Calling someone a ‘grifter’ — accusing one of holding a point of view that violates one’s own conscience simply for profit motives — effectively delegitimizes that person’s sincerely held views. Unless you’re a mind-reader, there is no way to prove it. Eventually, the mob won and Dawkins deleted his tweet.

When asked what the goals of this new venture are, the organizers and speakers asserted that they share a vision of growing a movement that tries to clarify what ‘social justice’ is about and offers alternatives that don’t rely upon postmodernist ideology to address issues of social inequality and other grievances. By design, the movement should be apolitical and encourage the breaking down of barriers that prevent meaningful dialogue across divides (mostly via guilt by association), fostering free and open dialogue even with people with whom we have substantive disagreements.

Boghossian and Lindsay have gone a step further and written a how-to-manual titled How to Have Impossible Conversations, a guide through conversational techniques necessary to talk about the wedge issues du jour: climate change, religious faith, poverty, immigration, gun control, etc. Almost a century ago, Shaw and Chesterton took part in the kind of public debate that exemplifies an impossible conversation — it just happened at a time and in a climate that made it possible.

It is this spirit that these evangelicals and atheists are fighting to restore. Faith or no faith is no longer the dividing line here. Bad faith is. And you don’t need to be religious to argue in bad faith.
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Found something on Neogaf
 

LifeisTiresome

Well-known member
Also found this:

It's interesting what you would think are diametrically opposed individuals are coming together to discuss ideas. They've released 3 out of a 5 part series on intersectionality. James Lindsey and Peter Boghossian really nailed down their points in these videos. If you're looking for a primer on intersectionality, this is it.

Deconstructing communities:







I like how the 3rd video tells you that "problematic" is infact meant to destroy and deconstruct and find racism or whatever and that its circular so they can call you evil and its not meant to start a conversation. The "start a conversation" as always is a lie trying to hide what they really want.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Politics of opasition is as old as politics itself.

That said this is a really good sign, this means people are moving past the bargening stage

(you cant bargen with fanatics sorry.) and getting over the sadness and are moving on to accepting that the intersectional people are a legitement threat and that we dont have a choice but to come together to defeat them.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
Intersectionality is basically a postmodern religion anyway. Which actively despises Christianity mostly because it’s oppressive to XYZ, and modern secularism/atheism/free thought because it’s a male dominated western, enlightenment based movement.

Both atheists and christians believe their is an external truth. Which corresponds to what we see(correspondence theory).

Intersectionality is basically “truth is a construct which character dictated by whether your oppressing or being oppressed”.

Fundamentally it’s a product of postmodernism. And the rejection of a truth or reality outside of human relations(i.e. power dynamics and oppression).
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Intersectionality is basically a postmodern religion anyway. Which actively despises Christianity mostly because it’s oppressive to XYZ, and modern secularism/atheism/free thought because it’s a male dominated western, enlightenment based movement.

Both atheists and christians believe their is an external truth. Which corresponds to what we see(correspondence theory).

Intersectionality is basically “truth is a construct which character dictated by whether your oppressing or being oppressed”.

Fundamentally it’s a product of postmodernism. And the rejection of a truth or reality outside of human relations(i.e. power dynamics and oppression).


“If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.” – Sun Tzu

In other words directly rejecting truth as a concept tends to be a bad idea.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
That’s why you’ll see them prioritize “lived experience” and the like. It’s a fundamentally emotional worldview.

Which is why SJWs and postmodern tumblr pixies are so quintessentially quick to cry and screech.

Foucault out of all of them is the man to blame here. Like that man is cited everywhere in the humanities today. Frankly all his books needs to be burned. Though Derrida, Baudrillard, and others share a lot of the blame, also Fanon. Basically all the postmodernists ought to have their books burned and any literature pertaining to them or their ideas for the good of civilization ought to be suppressed.

Thing is, postmodernists are also a cunning and patient lot. They have worked to secure their own positions in academia and lower level education, and aren’t bothered by the occasional blow up where one of them says something shocking to normal people that gets reported on talk radio. (2+2=4 is a western racist epistemology!).
 

AnimalNoodles

Well-known member
That’s why you’ll see them prioritize “lived experience” and the like. It’s a fundamentally emotional worldview.

Which is why SJWs and postmodern tumblr pixies are so quintessentially quick to cry and screech.

Foucault out of all of them is the man to blame here. Like that man is cited everywhere in the humanities today. Frankly all his books needs to be burned. Though Derrida, Baudrillard, and others share a lot of the blame, also Fanon. Basically all the postmodernists ought to have their books burned and any literature pertaining to them or their ideas for the good of civilization ought to be suppressed.

Thing is, postmodernists are also a cunning and patient lot. They have worked to secure their own positions in academia and lower level education, and aren’t bothered by the occasional blow up where one of them says something shocking to normal people that gets reported on talk radio. (2+2=4 is a western racist epistemology!).

Intersectionalists should not be debated or engaged. Intersectionalism is, at its heart a system of violence. The only way to treat intersectionalism is through deconstruction of its narratives. Intersectionalists themselves should be driven from power and deplatformed in any way you can. If you can get one fired, do it. If you can get one in trouble, do it. Have no mercy, no second thoughts about it.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Intersectionalists should not be debated or engaged. Intersectionalism is, at its heart a system of violence. The only way to treat intersectionalism is through deconstruction of its narratives. Intersectionalists themselves should be driven from power and deplatformed in any way you can. If you can get one fired, do it. If you can get one in trouble, do it. Have no mercy, no second thoughts about it.

And always make sure to film their actions, helps in embarrassing them further
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
You cant really embarrass them. They revel in their degeneracy and hypocrisy and behavior.

Yes and no, I don’t think they all like acknowledging things like their Dragqueen-Boys, they go around actually having to actually acknowledge their stuff even if they support em all by default

That’s my experience when I show Leftists links relating to really fucked up shit they support, they refuse to answer or they go around it

It's why "SJW's don't exist" or "anyone who uses SJW unironically is a moron" is something I often heard before, they do gaslighting at the same time
 
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Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
I am thankful for rescuing our New Atheist allies from the bed they erroneously made with the Left and wholeheartedly welcome thrm on to the Right Side of history.

Out of gratitude for their service we should ensure to save them for last when they must choose to convert before the Cross or be purified by the Pyre.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
I am thankful for rescuing our New Atheist allies from the bed they erroneously made with the Left and wholeheartedly welcome thrm on to the Right Side of history.

Out of gratitude for their service we should ensure to save them for last when they must choose to convert before the Cross or be purified by the Pyre.
I think the thing with the "new atheists," is just that they don't like the Puritan bullshit, which is why they sided with the left before. Now that the left has gone full authoritarian, and have their own form of Puritanism, it makes it easier for many of the atheists to side with right wingers, even if they're Christian.

At least, as an atheist, that's how I feel. I'd rather hang around a bunch Christians who I think are wrong, (and who think I'm wrong,) but still hear me out and treat me like a person, than with rabid psychopaths who want to "cancel" everything that isn't perfectly woke.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
I think the thing with the "new atheists," is just that they don't like the Puritan bullshit, which is why they sided with the left before. Now that the left has gone full authoritarian, and have their own form of Puritanism, it makes it easier for many of the atheists to side with right wingers, even if they're Christian.

At least, as an atheist, that's how I feel. I'd rather hang around a bunch Christians who I think are wrong, (and who think I'm wrong,) but still hear me out and treat me like a person, than with rabid psychopaths who want to "cancel" everything that isn't perfectly woke.

Almost like there's some substance to Christ's teaching about God's Love and treating all people as having value and worth.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Indeed. I'm far more likely to side with the people who treat me like a human, and let me talk about my beliefs, over those who would silence and shun me. Even if we disagree with each other on a great deal of things.

The Bible teaches that you bring people to the Truth by showing them Love and reasoning with them. Obviously, not all people claiming Christ's name have or do follow this, but that's a heck of a lot better than ideologies that teach 'by any means necessary.'
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
The Bible teaches that you bring people to the Truth by showing them Love and reasoning with them. Obviously, not all people claiming Christ's name have or do follow this, but that's a heck of a lot better than ideologies that teach 'by any means necessary.'
Yeah I am speaking in general, and there are always no shortage of exceptions, but my discussions and disagreements tend to work out much better with the religious right, than with the authoritarian left.

It wasn't always this way, as far as I recall. The left wasn't so authoritarian, and It used to be the religious right who gave me most grief. I personally perceive a bit of a culture change in them. They seem to have embraced being more open and accepting. That, or the left has just gotten so toxic, that what I used to view as hostility from the right is now just viewed as regular old disagreement.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Yeah I am speaking in general, and there are always no shortage of exceptions, but my discussions and disagreements tend to work out much better with the religious right, than with the authoritarian left.

It wasn't always this way, as far as I recall. The left wasn't so authoritarian, and It used to be the religious right who gave me most grief. I personally perceive a bit of a culture change in them. They seem to have embraced being more open and accepting. That, or the left has just gotten so toxic, that what I used to view as hostility from the right is now just viewed as regular old disagreement.

Up into the 2000's, the political and cultural left was in a minority position, and they knew it. Some time around 2010 or later, they started perceiving themselves as the dominant cultural center. A lot of Obama policies, as well as Big Tech getting in bed with the Obama administration, changed this.

Big Tech coming out harshly in support of hard-left authoritarianism is one of the major things that clinched the cultural shift.

The attitude of the 'Christian Right' in the 80's and 90's is what you can expect when Christianity holds cultural center. What we've had in the last six years is what you get when the Secular Left holds cultural center.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Up into the 2000's, the political and cultural left was in a minority position, and they knew it. Some time around 2010 or later, they started perceiving themselves as the dominant cultural center. A lot of Obama policies, as well as Big Tech getting in bed with the Obama administration, changed this.

Big Tech coming out harshly in support of hard-left authoritarianism is one of the major things that clinched the cultural shift.

The attitude of the 'Christian Right' in the 80's and 90's is what you can expect when Christianity holds cultural center. What we've had in the last six years is what you get when the Secular Left holds cultural center.
That 80's/90's attitude better not return if the Christian right takes the center again, because it is a very good way to lose long-term. Fool me once and all that.

Love and acceptance is a far better attractant than hellfire sermons, morality laws, and Westboro Baptist-type antics.

Using religion as a bludgeon and sword will not work in the modern world, and the religious right of all faiths need to remember that.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
That 80's/90's attitude better not return if the Christian right takes the center again, because it is a very good way to lose long-term. Fool me once and all that.

Love and acceptance is a far better attractant than hellfire sermons, morality laws, and Westboro Baptist-type antics.

Using religion as a bludgeon and sword will not work in the modern world, and the religious right of all faiths need to remember that.

The Westboro Baptists were only ever a fringe of a fringe, and they only got as much media attention as they did, because it was useful to people wanting to smear them.

A return of the 90's/2000's attitudes is most likely if Christianity retakes the cultural center. If it's successful enough, the 'Karens' will switch 'allegiance' again, and things will get ugly. That's just how social patterns work, especially in larger civilizations.

The big question is whether or not we'll have a more honest media at that point, where they'll depict the bad and the good of Christian institutions, or just continue the relentless smears.
 

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