Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Megadeath]

-snip-
goalpost shifting into something they have you not asked at all this entire dialogue so as to falsely present the fascade that I haven't addressed....before then immediately admitting we have, in fact, went over this before.
-Snip-

Uh... That's literally contradicting yourself from one sentence to the next. "You shifted to something we didn't talk about, to make it look like I didn't respond." and "You admit that we have already been over this." CAN NOT both be true statements. Now, admittedly I may be parsing that wrong, because your English has kinda degenerated to the same gibberish level as your actual arguments, but if that isn't what you mean then it's not at all clear what you intended to say.

EDIT; If it helps, you can just post directly in russian and I'll r̶u̶n̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶G̶o̶o̶g̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶n̶s̶l̶a̶t̶e̶ continue trying to ignore the stupidity.

 

[strunkenwhite]

I would definitely consider UAVs such, especially given the terminology used. This also fits with other forces around the world.

The collision of competing vocabularies is interesting but does nothing to rehabilitate the claim that Oryx "is claiming 234 destroyed planes" since you pointedly did not dispute me saying that helicopters are not planes, nor that the general you cited was speaking of the same group of downed planes that constitutes a subset of Oryx's number that happens to be exactly the same size.

In which case, underestimating AFU losses by about 75% would suggest deep problems with his model, no?

That depends on what the model is trying to accomplish.

In which case, what exactly does it tell us that the head of Ukrainian logistics doesn't even know the amount of equipment losses the AFU has sustained since February?

What does it tell us about how many losses the AFU has actually taken?

 

[History Learner]

Uh... That's literally contradicting yourself from one sentence to the next. "You shifted to something we didn't talk about, to make it look like I didn't respond." and "You admit that we have already been over this." CAN NOT both be true statements. Now, admittedly I may be parsing that wrong, because your English has kinda degenerated to the same gibberish level as your actual arguments, but if that isn't what you mean then it's not at all clear what you intended to say.

Which was exactly the point I was making to him, so thanks for re-stating my argument for me. He cannot in one breath claim we've never discussed it and then switch to saying I avoided it in a past conversation he just claimed has never happened.

EDIT; If it helps, you can just post directly in russian and I'll r̶u̶n̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶G̶o̶o̶g̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶n̶s̶l̶a̶t̶e̶ continue trying to ignore the stupidity.

I absolutely love how I have you seething so much you just proceeded to screw up your own English. As I said to @Captain X the other night, will you Ukie bros ever stop projecting your own Ls?

 

[History Learner]

The collision of competing vocabularies is interesting but does nothing to rehabilitate the claim that Oryx "is claiming 234 destroyed planes" since you pointedly did not dispute me saying that helicopters are not planes, nor that the general you cited was speaking of the same group of downed planes that constitutes a subset of Oryx's number that happens to be exactly the same size.

Because I didn't have to dispute the helicopter bit given the UAVs existence, for one.

That depends on what the model is trying to accomplish.

I'm not sure how you intend to explain self evidently deep problems with it away as anything other than admitting its propaganda numbers.

What does it tell us about how many losses the AFU has actually taken?

Well if we don't want to take it as a baseline for their losses, the only other conclusion is that the reporting system has sytematically broken down to the point the people in charge don't even know. Doesn't exactly look good for Ukraine in that case, no?

 

[Megadeath]

Which was exactly the point I was making to him, so thanks for re-stating my argument for me. He cannot in one breath claim we've never discussed it and then switch to saying I avoided it in a past conversation he just claimed has never happened.

I absolutely love how I have you seething so much you just proceeded to screw up your own English. As I said to @Captain X the other night, will you Ukie bros ever stop projecting your own Ls?

Except... Neither of those things happened? He didn't say you never discussed it, he said you failed to address issues and substantiate claims when you did discuss it. Nor did I screw up "my own" English. It's clear that on top of blatant bias, and a peculiar stupidity that prevents you from adjusting that bias to accommodate clear realities, you are having difficulties with the language aspect.

I would suggest you slow down, take the time to read things through twice, and try to do so objectively rather than through the lense of impotent rage. Argue with and respond to what people say, rather than reading just enough to confirm your bias and going back to beating your favourite strawmen. I imagine if you actually had the self awareness to do so though we wouldn't find ourselves in this situation to begin with.

 

[ATP]

Which was exactly the point I was making to him, so thanks for re-stating my argument for me. He cannot in one breath claim we've never discussed it and then switch to saying I avoided it in a past conversation he just claimed has never happened.



I absolutely love how I have you seething so much you just proceeded to screw up your own English. As I said to @Captain X the other night, will you Ukie bros ever stop projecting your own Ls?

You are wrong as usual,but it is not important.You want kgbstan win? it is still plausible,if:
1.They had hidden super kgb army,maybe even with apemans all sired by kgb.
2.Biden would gave them Europe for nothing,like FDR and Truman.Why not? he is democrat
3.kgb kill putin,replace with liberal putin,who after 10 years attack and take Europe.

But,you want kgb win on battlefield.Sorry,not going to happen.They are soviets,and they win during WW2 only thanks to american trucks,ammo,fuel, and trains.They are unable to win by themselves against any opponent bigger then Czeczenya.

P.S Could you deliver funny soviet sources,like @Chiron ,about evils fighting for Ukraine? i miss it.

 

[Vaermina]

I did, but it's clear you didn't:

“We lost five people for every one they did,” said Ihor, a 30-year-old platoon commander who injured his back when the tank he was riding in crashed into a ditch.

You apparently missed the name on that, given we have independent confirmation of exactly how many of his platoon were actually killed.

Also note that that article is from nearly three weeks ago, which was when Ukraine was still making Russia think Kherson was the main thrust of their counter attack. And before the real seige of the city began.

Yes, my statements being based in reality is what make them true. If you feel otherwise, instead of just claiming them, let's see some evidence. You can't attack me for treating your arguments with the same standard you did in presenting them.

You mean stuff that's already been posted that you ignore?

 

[Cherico]

Well, that's certainly an odd choice of targets for Russia.

Makes me wonder if target selection was aided by the CCP.

Russia is now a chinese vassal which is hilarious considering how they treated china when they were the soviet union

 

[Husky_Khan]

Some more Media Pertaining to the Russian Mobilization.

MediaZone Posted a Twitter Thread Showing Various Videos of Protests and Interference Occurring Regarding the Mobilization of Dagestanis for the Russian Special Military Operation. Dagestan, bordering Chechnya, is one of the poorest regions in Russia, predominantly Russian and disproportionately affected by the casualties so far in the Russian Invasion of Ukraine. Up to this point the casualties were high because a lot of Dagestanis desired to join the Russian military.



Russian Short Term Volunteers... Could Have Their Short Term Contracts Extended in an Open Ended Manner.



Freshly Mobilized troops Being Issued Uniforms and Clothes in High Quality Facilities



Spartan Style Training Ensures Strong Warriors



Newly Mobilized Troops Getting Their Personal Gear and Equipment Including Medicine Taken Away From Them at Training Camps.

 

[LordsFire]

Yeah, really feeling that 'industrial superiority' HL is so confident in.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Russia is now a chinese vassal which is hilarious considering how they treated china when they were the soviet union

And one reason I expect that to just erupt in pain between the two. I'm sure China will take the 1st chunk out of Siberia...though, Russia might give it away to pay off China.

 

[Cherico]

And one reason I expect that to just erupt in pain between the two. I'm sure China will take the 1st chunk out of Siberia...though, Russia might give it away to pay off China.

To be fair Russia did set the precident....

 

[WolfBear]

Males between 18-35 in the Russian Occupied Territories of Ukraine are Apparently Forbidden From Leaving So that they too can be Mobilized! Twitter thread below with reporting and anecdotes on it.

The Ukrainian version of the Malgre-nous :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgr%C3%A9-nous

What year do you think that the last surviving veteran of this war will pass away in? I'm inclined to say around 2115. If they were 17 when this war started (born in 2005), joined the next year, and then lived to age 110, then they would live to 2115.

 

[WolfBear]

To be fair Russia did set the precident....

Crimea River lol!

 

[Zachowon]

Yeah, really feeling that 'industrial superiority' HL is so confident in.

Only applies to artillery ammunition duh

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Honestly if the US had to actually do a mobilization it would also probably be a shit show like what was seen in the clips above. No country currently really has the ability to pull one of those off.

 

[Vaermina]

Honestly if the US had to actually do a mobilization it would also probably be a shit show like what was seen in the clips above. No country currently really has the ability to pull one of those off.

No... No it wouldn't... The US has the trainers, equipment, and ready locations to pull off mobilization if needed.

And yes... Yes they do...

 

[strunkenwhite]

Because I didn't have to dispute the helicopter bit given the UAVs existence, for one.

So, then, you agree that the claim about Oryx's inaccuracy on counting downed aircraft was wrong? Because the 234 number included helicopters which you agree are not planes, and Oryx's numbers include 55 "combat aircraft" which are likely the same thing as the AF general's 55 "warplanes". If your claim is modified to "Oryx is using bad vocabulary" then I think we can agree to disagree.

I'm not sure how you intend to explain self evidently deep problems with it away as anything other than admitting its propaganda numbers.

If the aim is simply to put a well-documented floor on possible equipment losses, then no. Such is in no way an "estimate" and it would be useless if used as such.

Well if we don't want to take it as a baseline for their losses, the only other conclusion is that the reporting system has sytematically broken down to the point the people in charge don't even know. Doesn't exactly look good for Ukraine in that case, no?

And yet, this has no direct relation to actual losses, and no indirect relation that you seem to care to identify, apparently preferring to ask rhetorical questions that are not on point to the question at hand.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Honestly if the US had to actually do a mobilization it would also probably be a shit show like what was seen in the clips above. No country currently really has the ability to pull one of those off.

Shit shows are relative. I would not be at all surprised if a US mobilization could be described as a "shit show". I would be extremely surprised if it could be described as a shit show in which extremely basic supplies like bandages are not reliably available, and troops are told to get their own, and troops who actually get their own have them confiscated.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

No... No it wouldn't... The US has the trainers, equipment, and ready locations to pull off mobilization if needed.

And yes... Yes they do...

Hey just a while back after the whole Jan 6th thing they had our national guard sleeping in a damn parking garage. If we really had to do a mobilization with the US governments recent track record it would absolutely be a shit show.