Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Captain X]

Pointing out that in practice that is what the US did for years before this war and led to a world culture of these violations of international law is whataboutism?

Yes, responding to "this looks bad for Russia to be doing this" with "but whatabout the US doing this" is whataboutism.

I'm pointing out that this IS the actual norm in practice.

Apparently not since the articles you cite are about how people are getting criminally charged for committing these acts.

The US military certainly tries to pretend it isn't, something the Russians are simply more honest about, but there is a record of it doing so and violating all sorts of norms it claimed to uphold.

Ah, so Russia being honest about being horrible makes them not horrible somehow?

I know you think this is gotcha question, but actions speak louder than words and in terms of actions the US does not live up to its supposed words except to make an example of enlisted when they get caught.

No, actually what I was commenting on is that it looks pretty bad for Russia to just announce they're going to kill people when what the US was doing under the same logic was imprisoning people indefinitely.

That hasn't happened in Russia? Dissent is stifled in the US too when it is for a popular enough cause or sanctioned enough by the media. Where are the protests for the January 6th rioters who have been detained in all sorts of illegal ways?

And we'd all agree that this is bad, right? And that when it happens, it doesn't exactly get swept under the rug, right? And that this issue of indefinite detention has been something the media over here has always gone on about, right?

People get abused in US custody all the time. After all the US has the world's largest population of prisoners, utterly dwarfing Russia despite the population differences.

Which makes it okay for Russia to just slaughter any foreign fighters they come across, even after they've surrendered?

 

[Megadeath]

Taken out of the context of him supposedly fighting Russians in Ukraine; if he were just any normal American threatening Tucker Carlson with bodily harm on social media, what would that tell you about their political allegiances and ideological inclinations? To me, it smacks of someone who is afraid of what Tucker is saying; otherwise, they wouldn't be threatening to silence him with force, unless they were simply a violent thug who reacts to everything with violence. Either way, not someone I would consider trustworthy enough to believe their stories of military conquest.

Sorry, saying carlson has a punchable face is threatening him with bodily harm and trying to silence him with force? Talk about making mountains out of molehills! And if wishing violence on someone you don't like can only logically mean one is afraid of what the other is saying, there's apparently an awful lot of people around here terrified of the messaging from the US democrat party and any media outlet to the left of the daily stormer.

 

[Zachowon]

It is what the Chieftain warned about in his latest video. And given how battered he got on the internet when the Sherman Revisionism was all the rage before it got battered back down with hard science and numbers, he has learned his lesson. He now makes sure he has actual hard data before committing. He doesn't want a repeat of being made a fool of when someone pointed out the US and Germany used different armor standards that weren't comparable to each other, and thus the Sherman Gun had half the penetrating power of a comparable German Gun and US armor could only take half the punishment a German sheet of armor of the same thickness could.

So the entire 5 Shermans to a Panzer (not just the Panther) was true, and completely irrelevant as the Allies had a massive artillery and airpower advantage to where it didn't matter. Which is what the conversation should have been in the first place. But I digress.

Uh..
No Chieftan has disproven time qnd time again how wrong your thought is.
He has proven the Sherman 75 was good for its job at every level even against higher armored German tanks.
The thing is...
We never HAD to do 5 shermans to a Panzer. Becase a Panzer 4 vs a Sherman wad always who fired first.
A Panzer 3 had to shoot anywhere but the front...
But yeah.
I have s33n every video of Chieftains about Shermans and the like.
He has never changed his facts as he has ALEAYS used evidence of the US, the Soviets, the British and the Germans in his comments

 

[BlackDragon98]

You realize she's Russian right?

You realize I didn't make this political, right?

I just said that they forgot to put on the Mauripol background without stating which side.

I also just stated Bimbo brain, without stating a side.

By making this political, you have exposed yourself as a shill and a RINO.

But tell me, how much are they paying you to do this?

 

[TheRejectionist]

On the plus side, vacationing in East Europe is gonna be cheaper in the future. /s and I like the girl.

 

[Terthna]

Sorry, saying carlson has a punchable face is threatening him with bodily harm and trying to silence him with force? Talk about making mountains out of molehills!

Yes, it is. It'd be downright hypocritical of almost everyone on this forum to say otherwise, considering all the times they've condemned this exact rhetoric from the regressive left up until now.

And if wishing violence on someone you don't like can only logically mean one is afraid of what the other is saying, there's apparently an awful lot of people around here terrified of the messaging from the US democrat party and any media outlet to the left of the daily stormer.

Calls for violence against people who haven't actually done anything beyond voice an opinion you don't like are unacceptable no matter which political ideology you ascribe to.

 

[Vaermina]

You realize I didn't make this political, right?

I just said that they forgot to put on the Mauripol background without stating which side.

I also just stated Bimbo brain, without stating a side.

By making this political, you have exposed yourself as a shill and a RINO.

But tell me, how much are they paying you to do this?

So no, you didn't realize she was Russian.

 

[Marduk]

Uh..
No Chieftan has disproven time qnd time again how wrong your thought is.
He has proven the Sherman 75 was good for its job at every level even against higher armored German tanks.
The thing is...
We never HAD to do 5 shermans to a Panzer. Becase a Panzer 4 vs a Sherman wad always who fired first.
A Panzer 3 had to shoot anywhere but the front...
But yeah.
I have s33n every video of Chieftains about Shermans and the like.
He has never changed his facts as he has ALEAYS used evidence of the US, the Soviets, the British and the Germans in his comments

Statistically, if i remember right, most Sherman losses were to boring anti tank gun ambushes.

 

[Captain X]

 

[TheRejectionist]

 

[Zachowon]

Statistically, if i remember right, most Sherman losses were to boring anti tank gun ambushes.

Correct.

 

[Floridaman]

Arma footage, in a war with Russians. Are the Badgers operating in Ukraine?!

 

[The Original Sixth]

You realize she's Russian right?

She's parodying Zelensky, I think. He had the exact same fake backdrop as he did in the beginning.

 

[PsihoKekec]

People in general don't get the satire.

 

[Chiron]

Uh..
No Chieftan has disproven time qnd time again how wrong your thought is.
He has proven the Sherman 75 was good for its job at every level even against higher armored German tanks.
The thing is...
We never HAD to do 5 shermans to a Panzer. Becase a Panzer 4 vs a Sherman wad always who fired first.
A Panzer 3 had to shoot anywhere but the front...
But yeah.
I have s33n every video of Chieftains about Shermans and the like.
He has never changed his facts as he has ALEAYS used evidence of the US, the Soviets, the British and the Germans in his comments

The 5 to 1 ratio is established historical fact, and well documented and continues to hold up under scrutiny. By not acknowledging it you are in fact shitting on the sacrifices of Sherman Tankers.


Second Armored tells of its frustrations battling a Panzer Division which double checking the dates had no Tiger Battalion in support and only 180 tanks.

So 9th Army was battling mostly Panthers and Panzer IVs. The good stuff was being horded for the Ardennes Offensive.

A PDF with more context and period interviews.

Reaction in the Press
The growing inadequacies of the Sherman were common knowledge among tankers and high ranking Army commanders at the end of 1943. The experiences of tankers in the Sherman in Sicily and Italy during the last half that year began to showcase the results of the Sherman when taking on the new German tanks. Germany constantly upgraded their existing tank models and produced new ones as well. In the early days of 1944 the press even began to take notice of this problem and its effect on the soldiers’ morale. In a cable from General George C. Marshall to Lt. General Jacob Devers (head of Armored Force), Marshall expressed his worry on allowing the press to publish an article on such matters. The article, by New York Times correspondent Cyrus Sulzberger, had this to say about American tanks: Weakest portion of armor on German Tiger tanks equals strongest armor plating on Sherman. Either German Mark 4 or Mark 6 outguns Sherman. New German antitank gun has at least double muzzle velocity of best American weapon. There isn't a single American gun in this theater which can equal the range of the German 170 by thousands of yards. In other words our tanks and guns must close with the enemy before they are able to deal a blow. Even if we are numerically superior that does not equalize the situation. . . Just yesterday night writer sat up in tent with 2 tank Colonels gloomily discussing their particular mission . . . ‘There will be plenty of flamers. Germans have been able to make this sector regular trap and we haven't got guns to stand up 41 against them. But we have got to get in action. As our General says "a tank doesn't make very good mantelpiece." 26

Also if you read on it was the WW2 Washington Post that started the 3 to 1, 5 to 1 ratio.

An Official US Government Report.

Long story short, the 75mm was not good enough, it lacked the velocity and ammo to compete. Hell the Panzer IV Ausf H could no sell the 76mm frontally.

Now if Ordinance, Intelligence, and AGF had all been on the same damn page and not ignoring or backstabbing each other, the Sherman would have had 3 tons more armor on the front, a 90mm gun, and an improved suspension system.

Unfortunately they were not on the same page.

Luckily for the Allies it didn't matter as they had an overwhelming artillery and airpower advantage that ground the Germans down. Not so lucky for the Tankers who had to pay the price.

 

[TheRejectionist]

When you forget to put on the Mauripol background . . .



Bimbo brain strikes again!

Who's the girl?

 

[Agent23]

Medal count: OSINT analysis of real Russian losses for the first week of hostilities in Ukraine - InformNapalm.org (English)

With the beginning of the active phase of hostilities against Ukraine on February 24, 2022, reports about...

informnapalm.org

TL;DR there is evidence that Ukrainian claims of Russian losses are in fact pretty accurate.

Brought to you by the spammers/psyops of Kiev, with the help of Georgia.

Stunks like more Uki copium-induced cherry picking and/or outright Uki propaganda.

 

[Marduk]

Brought to you by the spammers/psyops of Kiev, with the help of Georgia.

Stunks like more Uki copium-induced cherry picking and/or outright Uki propaganda.

Do you have any argument for why their sources on medals and their numbering are wrong?
Seems to me like "everyone who doesn't simp for Russia like me has to be wrong about everything related to the war" coping.

 

[Agent23]

Do you have any argument for why their sources on medals and their numbering are wrong?
Seems to me like "everyone who doesn't simp for Russia like me has to be wrong about everything related to the war" coping.

You constantly disprove your own arguments.

Need I remind you who rees that anyone who disagrees with them is a Russian bot or a Commie?

Keep throwing stones at the walls of your glass house.

 

[Marduk]

You constantly disprove your own arguments.

Need I remind you who rees that anyone who disagrees with them is a Russian bot or a Commie?

Keep throwing stones at the walls of your glass house.

Ah, as i thought, you have nothing and just piss in the wind in hope that someone mistakes your handwaving for a valid argument