Kherson for the Donbass is a worthy trade, IMHO.
Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
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Kherson for the Donbass is a worthy trade, IMHO.
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
give it a few days. The 'offensive' will peter out like all the other ones and will turn out to have more meme than anything else.
Kharkiv. KIEV, Chernikiv?
Those didn't Peter out for the Ukrainians.
*Chernihiv
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
Kharkiv has lol. Its a theatre of secondary importance, thinly manned, and the Ukrainians have little to show for it after weeks of back and forth
Kiev was literally the Ukrainians reoccupying areas the Russians evacuated.
But the Russians are very interested in defending the South, and every serious attempt by the Ukrainians to threaten Kherson or move into the the south has been bloodily repulsed.
Have they?
Last I checked the Russians seem to be losing ground in the south and gaining meters in the east.
And LOL, Kharkiv caused a lot of Russian losses
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
wait a few days. Once the fog of war clears, we'll see how far the ukrainians got.
Hint: not far.
Where I not far? Kherson is about to be pushed up on, Kharkiv Front was abandoned because they were losing to the Ukrainians and the easy is a slog fest that the Russians are only gaining eith more losses then the Ukraonians because they let them.
Guess what Washington did against the British to perserve his lower number of forces?
Megadeath
Well-known member
But you, in your infinite wisdom, don't need to wait for that fog to roll back? I'm sure you have some unique and special insight and information. As opposed to being another idiot betting against Ukrainian success, and incapable of admitting that pretty much literally everything that's happened so far has made a joke of the Russian military.
"Oh, Kiev was a faint! Kharkiv didn't matter! They probably wanted their flagship and the units that got exploded at the dramatically failed river crossing destroyed, to avoid a coup and make room for modernisation!" Yeah, sure, go on about how it's other people handing out the "cope".
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
But you, in your infinite wisdom, don't need to wait for that fog to roll back? I'm sure you have some unique and special insight and information. As opposed to being another idiot betting against Ukrainian success, and incapable of admitting that pretty much literally everything that's happened so far has made a joke of the Russian military.
"Oh, Kiev was a faint! Kharkiv didn't matter! They probably wanted their flagship and the units that got exploded at the dramatically failed river crossing destroyed, to avoid a coup and make room for modernisation!" Yeah, sure, go on about how it's other people handing out the "cope".
1) I have never bought into or the idea that Kiev was big feint. But the idea that Ukraine pushed the Russians out in a brilliant blitz is also bullshit. Russia evacuated once their position became untenable and pointless, and Ukraine reoccupied.
2) Kharkhiv IS a secondary front and thinly manned. Ukraine has poured masses of resources into the front with marginal gains and little to show for it. Russia is still holding significant territory in the area and is slowly regaining land.
3) A ship was sunk and a river crossing was defeated in a war? Wow..thats never happened before.
Meanwhile the Ukrainians have been completely unable to make any solid and lasting gains against any areas the Russians have decided to actually defend. Previous large counterattacks at Izyum and in the south were badly mauled. This one will be as well.
Megadeath
Well-known member
Copes. Copes everywhere.
Ukraine is grinding Russia into mincemeat, and even the Russian propagandists are starting to admit it. Russia has been completely unable to make any lasting and serious gains in any theatre where the Ukrainians have gotten around to countering in force.
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
I cant figure out if this is a troll or you are deluded. ah well. in a few days this southern offensive will fail and Russia will continue to advance in donbass.
Donbass Participants Getting Flashbacks to Conflicts That Occurred Almost Exactly 79-80 Years Ago!
Behind Enemy Lines, Scouts Help Ukrainians Execute Deadly Strikes - T…
archived 11 Jun 2022 05:33:13 UTC
Russia Moving Forward With 'Referendum' Plans in Occupied Southern Ukraine, Says Kherson Mayor
Russian forces in control of territory in Ukraine’s south are reviving discussions about holding referendums on integrating the occupied areas into Russia.
www.rferl.org
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
planefag
A Flying Bundle of Sticks
Fog of War.
Still ukrainians could not made any crimes against kgbstan civilians,becouse they are on Ukraine.
Russia was murdered by soviets.And kgbstan either made secret deal with USA to not advance,or they are so corrupted that they could not advance.
In both cases,they would take Ukraine only if USA gave it to them.
Just like sralin could take Central Europe becouse FDR gave it to him.
If kgbstan is smart,they have deal with USA and ,thanks to that,could take Ukraine.
If they are really deluded idiots who welive in powerpuff soviets,then they would fail.
We would see.
History Learner
Well-known member
I generally stopped replying to these kind of threads because I knew time would prove me right soon enough, and indeed it has.
Ukraine is running out of ammunition as prospects dim on the battlefield:
[T]he odds against the Ukrainians are starting to look overwhelming, said Danylyuk, the government adviser.
“The Russians are using long-range artillery against us, often without any response, because we don’t have the means,” he said. “They can attack from dozens of kilometers away and we can’t fire back. We know all the coordinates for all their important targets, but we don’t have the means to attack.”
Ukraine has now almost completely run out of ammunition for the Soviet-era weapons systems that were the mainstay of its arsenal, and the Eastern European countries that maintained the same systems have run out of surplus supplies to donate, Danylyuk said. Ukraine urgently needs to shift to longer-range and more sophisticated Western systems, but those have only recently been committed, and in insufficient quantities to match Russia’s immense firepower, he said.
Russia is firing as many as 50,000 artillery rounds a day into Ukrainian positions, and the Ukrainians can only hit back with around 5,000 to 6,000 rounds a day, he said. The United States has committed to deliver 220,000 rounds of ammunition — enough to match Russian firepower for around four days.
Ukraine forces outgunned up to 40 to one by Russian forces, intelligence report reveals
Ukrainian troops are suffering massive losses as they are outgunned 20 to one in artillery and 40 to one in ammunition by Russian forces, according to new intelligence painting a bleak picture of the conflict on the frontline.
A report by Ukrainian and Western intelligence officials also reveals that the Ukrainians are facing huge difficulties responding to Russians shelling with their artillery restricted to a range of 25 kilometres, while the enemy can strike from 12 times that distance.
For the first time since the war began, there is now concern over desertion. The report, seen by The Independent, says the worsening situation in the Donbas, with up to a hundred soldiers being killed a day, is having “a seriously demoralising effect on Ukrainian forces as well as a very real material effect; cases of desertion are growing every week”.
Anyone at this point claiming the Ukrainians are winning or even having an easy time of it are deluding themselves and ignoring even what the Ukrainians themselves are admitting to. To quote Zelensky himself, from June 1st:
“The most difficult situation is in the east of Ukraine and southern Donetsk and Luhansk,” Zelensky said in an interview with Newsmax that was published on Tuesday.
“The situation is very difficult; we’re losing 60 to 100 soldiers per day as killed in action and something around 500 people as wounded in action. So we are holding our defensive perimeters,” he added.
Zelensky advisers, as the situation continues to develop, are now admitting to far higher losses as of June 10th:
A senior Ukrainian presidential aide has told the BBC that between 100 and 200 Ukrainian troops are being killed on the front line every day.
To put this into historical perspective:
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said this week that Ukraine is now losing 60 to 100 soldiers each day in combat. By way of comparison, just short of 50 American soldiers died per day on average in 1968 during the Vietnam War’s deadliest year for U.S. forces.
Just to really hammer it home:
Any way you count it, the figures are stark: Ukrainian casualties are running at a rate of somewhere between 6oo and 1,000 a day. One presidential adviser, Oleksiy Arestovych, told the Guardian this week it was 150 killed and 800 wounded daily; another, Mykhaylo Podolyak, told the BBC that 100 to 200 Ukrainian troops a day were being killed.
It represents an extraordinary loss of human life and capacity for the defenders, embroiled in a defence of the eastern city of Sievierodonetsk that this week turned into a losing battle. Yet the city was also arguably a place that Ukraine could have retreated from to the more defensible Lysychansk, across the Siverski Donets River, the sort of defensive situation that Ukraine has fared far better in.
Further:
Western officials prefer not to discuss the impact of the war on the defenders, instead highlighting the problems for the Russians in their briefings. This week, one of those officials said their estimate was that the invaders had lost “15,000 to 20,000 dead”, out of an invasion force that was 150,000 or more. Yet despite this, Moscow’s army has still not lost its offensive capability.
But they chose not to provide similar estimates for Ukraine, which can create a lopsided impression that the Russians are faring worse. In fact, with an artillery overmatch of 10 or 15 to one, according to the Ukrainians, it may well be that the invaders’ casualty rate is far lower at the moment, because they are able to deal death from a greater distance to defenders who cannot see them.
Ammunition is certainly running short on the Ukrainian side, again by their own admission. Vadym Skibitsky, the deputy head of Ukraine’s military intelligence, has said Ukraine is using 5,000 to 6,000 artillery rounds a day, and has “almost used up” its stockpile of Soviet 152mm standard shells. It is now relying on Nato-standard 155mm howitzers; it is unclear how many of these it has.
Commanders have told the Guardian that Ukraine struggles for some basic equipment such as encrypted radios (where mobile phones work, it is not uncommon to rely on the secure Signal app instead) or advanced sights and optics of the types commonly used by western militaries.
Ukraine is not short on bravery and determination. Western support is still in place, as shown by the UK announcement to supply a handful of – perhaps three – multiple rocket launchers this week, even if Kyiv said almost immediately it wanted many times more. But it is Russia’s forces that have found a way to advance in the Donbas, raising the question of whether the three-month war is at another turning point.
They have half of the combat brigades Ukraine had in February and their own war games found the Russians would crush them in less than a week.