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Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

Buba

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How did the Appalachian mountain range in the USA look like 22ky BP?
On another board an ISOT of that area from year 20000BCE to the present was mooted. My feeling is that it'd be tundra in the north - how far south would it reach? - and taiga in the south.
Already overrun by Amerindians mercilessly extirpating megafauna with their non sustainable traditional hunting ways? Or still humanfree?
 

ATP

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How did the Appalachian mountain range in the USA look like 22ky BP?
On another board an ISOT of that area from year 20000BCE to the present was mooted. My feeling is that it'd be tundra in the north - how far south would it reach? - and taiga in the south.
Already overrun by Amerindians mercilessly extirpating megafauna with their non sustainable traditional hunting ways? Or still humanfree?
megafauna should still be there,indians - dunno.Depending which article i should belive !
 

Agent23

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megafauna should still be there,indians - dunno.Depending which article i should belive !
You'd need more CO2 for Megafauna to work, lol.

And yes, the green bullshit is probably a dirty plot to deny all of us our riding dinosaurs!
 

Skallagrim

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How did the Appalachian mountain range in the USA look like 22ky BP?
On another board an ISOT of that area from year 20000BCE to the present was mooted. My feeling is that it'd be tundra in the north - how far south would it reach? - and taiga in the south.
Already overrun by Amerindians mercilessly extirpating megafauna with their non sustainable traditional hunting ways? Or still humanfree?
The ice sheet didn't actually extend far down the Appalachians, even in the depth of the last ice age:




This is somewhat crude, and of a more recent stage, when the ice had already receded (compared to the above map, which more accurately reflects the situation 20.000 years BC). However, it shows the climate zones that you're interested in:




The combination of these maps allows for some extrapolation. We may assume that 20.000 years BC, a long 'finger' of tundra extended along the back of the Appalachians, from the Ice Sheet down to what is now Northernmost Georgia. Around it, there would be taiga, as the open boreal woodland we see wouldn't be able to persist there under those conditions (except for possibly a strip on the Atlantic shore -- a region that is now beneath the waves, of course, because sea levels have risen since).




The question of human habitation is an open one. We know for a fact that people reached the region by 14.000 BC. The conventional model has humans reaching the Americas via Beringia (and that, it is increasingly thought, probably via a coastal route, rather than an overland 'ice-free corridor') in the period of roughly 25.000 BC - 20.000 BC. So there could plausibly be paleo-indians in Appalachia, although I can't imagine them as anything other than very small groups of the very boldest pioneers. Most likely, they just weren't there yet.
 

Lord Sovereign

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Here's a question.

Barring too much outside interference (like for example trade would still be a thing), which native culture or society would have ended up dominating/conquering Sub-Saharan Africa? Because in terms of the long game, weirdly enough, my money would be on the Zulu. Yes they were not nearly as technologically developed or even as wealthy as the more mercantile empires of central Africa, but their military outclassed basically everyone in their neck of the woods. This was a well trained, well put together fighting force, that even had a basic logistics system which allowed their armies to move fast.

And by the time those more advanced societies would brush up against them, the Zulu would have had the time to absorb tremendous amounts of territory and manpower into their state. They could well be raising the largest armies Africa has ever seen in such a hypothetical scenario.

I don't think they'd have been the "Rome" of Africa, but they'd have served the function of the eventual conquering Germanic tribes quite nicely.
 

stevep

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On a relate note, what if the Big Lie was true and Trump genuinely was a Russian agent? Never mind the implausibility of Russia getting a spy into the presidency, what would they do with one if they pulled it off?
Probably not a lot different from what he did OTL. Unless his orders from above would have prevented him making some of the mistakes that resulted in his defeat in 2020.

I think he was definitely a Russian asset in terms of a tool that could be used to their advantage because he's so easily manipulable.
 

WolfBear

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Probably not a lot different from what he did OTL. Unless his orders from above would have prevented him making some of the mistakes that resulted in his defeat in 2020.

I think he was definitely a Russian asset in terms of a tool that could be used to their advantage because he's so easily manipulable.
It's quite interesting; Trump was relatively hawkish on Russia, other than his anti-NATO stance, but ran on a pro-Russia platform. Of course, his hawkishness might have been an attempt to deflect Russiagate criticism of him.
 

WolfBear

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'AHC: Have Germany and Austria-Hungary pursue much deeper integration with each other in the absence of World War I'
 

stevep

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It's quite interesting; Trump was relatively hawkish on Russia, other than his anti-NATO stance, but ran on a pro-Russia platform. Of course, his hawkishness might have been an attempt to deflect Russiagate criticism of him.
I must admit I can't remember him being critical of Putin, unlike his hostility toward Xi and China. Even after the initial Russian attack on Ukraine he was referring to Putin as a great leader.

I get the impression he respected Putin so much because he saw a similar soul and wished he had as much power as Putin.
 

WolfBear

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I must admit I can't remember him being critical of Putin, unlike his hostility toward Xi and China. Even after the initial Russian attack on Ukraine he was referring to Putin as a great leader.

I get the impression he respected Putin so much because he saw a similar soul and wished he had as much power as Putin.
 

Atarlost

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Saying Putin is not to blame for the Russian invasion of Ukraine is like saying that Hitler is not to blame for the German invasion of Poland. Anyone who thinks that has no credibility to assign secondary blame.
 

WolfBear

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Saying Putin is not to blame for the Russian invasion of Ukraine is like saying that Hitler is not to blame for the German invasion of Poland. Anyone who thinks that has no credibility to assign secondary blame.
Yeah, that part is Russian trolling. I'm citing him to argue that Trump was more hawkish on Russia than he ostensibly appeared.
 

Zyobot

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'ATL Slang And Jargon'.

Pretty open-ended, really, since all kinds of expressions and figures of speech will crop up, fade out, or just plain never come to pass from one TL to the next.
 

WolfBear

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'ATL Slang And Jargon'.

Pretty open-ended, really, since all kinds of expressions and figures of speech will crop up, fade out, or just plain never come to pass from one TL to the next.
If Russian will become more of a global language, as is very possible without Communism, then it's entirely possible to see a lot more Russian slang and jargon be adopted in the West and elsewhere.
 

ATP

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If Russian will become more of a global language, as is very possible without Communism, then it's entirely possible to see a lot more Russian slang and jargon be adopted in the West and elsewhere.
True,russians would probably replace englich as most common language in this TL.Well,not counting chinees.
 

WolfBear

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True,russians would probably replace englich as most common language in this TL.Well,not counting chinees.
Even you Polonkadonks are going to be much more fluent in Russian in this TL!



The Russian script coexisted with the Latin one in Poland in the early 20th century, when Poland was still under Russian rule.
 

ATP

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Even you Polonkadonks are going to be much more fluent in Russian in this TL!



The Russian script coexisted with the Latin one in Poland in the early 20th century, when Poland was still under Russian rule.
Depend,on how russian would behave.If normal,and in cyvilized way,then - .Probably part of us would use russian.
 
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