After the 1940 Fall of France, Benito Mussolini goes to war with Switzerland over the Italian-majority Ticino Canton

[ahmed ali]

MCCarthy was rigfht about soviet agents ,thanks to Mitrochin archive we knew that now.
And people would belive what media said.If they said that genocider Sralin is saint who made WORKER PARADISE,they would buy it.

Henry Wallace visited soviet death camps in Magadan and lied about how people are happy there,so he was commie.

Poland would be not occupied,but LIBERATED.Soviet occupied us - that is why next free elections we had in 1991.
When in France,LIBERATED by USA,ruled parties choosed by french people.

And,why gave sralin Baltics and part of Poland? if he get only to Dniepr/germans could hold soviets there if Hitler had brain/
then sralin would be lucky to get anything past that river.

Ismet Inonu fought by german side,and remembered that they surrendered lastand try help Turkey as much as they could.
If he thought that germans would win after taking Baku,he would join.

If Wendel Willkie win,then USA lead by republicans would not waste money for lend-lease for soviets - only made more stuff like B.29 and made A bomb faster.
USA wasted for soviets 5 more time money then Manchattan project get.

Remove that,and WW2 would end with muschrooms over Germany in early 1945.And Poland,of course,would be free.
Only Democrats for unknown reason gave us to sralin for notching.And made soviets another world power.
Republicans would remain only world power,with Poland as ally.




Yes,but what next? Germans would conqer Switzerland,but what about Africa? if Italy lost it before germans send Rommel there,we have 2 more tank dyvisions against soviets.
And,they would attack earlier.Part of Moscov would fall.In 1942 Baku and Stalingrad would fall.Turkey would join then.
Germans would still lost - but,more Europe would remain free.

This and beyond is just paranoia

Henry Wallace went left because he hated Truman and this was 1948 and after that he supported the Korean war and the pig invasion if he became president he would become a staunch anticommunist because he would know the truth

If they had listened, MacArthur would have been president because he was popular

In the end, Turkey was almost severely chopped up, Ismet Inönü simply wouldn't risk it, so no, it wouldn't join even if Moscow fell (Russia fell and the Entente won the first war, don't forget that)

Wendel Willkie will still help the Soviets because they are the only ones who can stand up to the Nazis

The real difference in Wendell Willkie's victory is that Japan will not be economically isolated, Pearl Harbor will not be attacked, and therefore there will be no war in the Pacific. This will improve the performance of the allies in Europe with the surplus that was spent in Asia

So your assumptions are meaningless

 

[ATP]

This and beyond is just paranoia

Henry Wallace went left because he hated Truman and this was 1948 and after that he supported the Korean war and the pig invasion if he became president he would become a staunch anticommunist because he would know the truth

If they had listened, MacArthur would have been president because he was popular

In the end, Turkey was almost severely chopped up, Ismet Inönü simply wouldn't risk it, so no, it wouldn't join even if Moscow fell (Russia fell and the Entente won the first war, don't forget that)

Wendel Willkie will still help the Soviets because they are the only ones who can stand up to the Nazis

The real difference in Wendell Willkie's victory is that Japan will not be economically isolated, Pearl Harbor will not be attacked, and therefore there will be no war in the Pacific. This will improve the performance of the allies in Europe with the surplus that was spent in Asia

So your assumptions are meaningless

Mitrochin archive is not paranoja,only list of soviet agents.And Wallace in deathcamps of Magadan praised soviet genociders.
He was either idiot or agent - but idiots do not become vice presidents.

Turkey could join germans or not - depend of what their leaders would belive.If they belive that germans would win,like Mussolini,they would attack.If they belived otherwise,like Franco,they would remain neutral.
Both is possible here.

Wendel Willkie would support soviet enough for them to survive,not become superpower,which FDR did.USA in OTL wasted 5 times as much money as Manhattan Project on soviets.
It would not happen here.
Which mean soviets stopped on ukraine.Better for everybody.

But - back to topic.
On East Front we have Rommel,2 more tank dyvisions,and bigger Italian army,including tank and mechanized dyvisions.
What more important,bigger airforces there,too.

They would get to Moscov in 1941,and fight there.If city fall,they could win in 1942 or 1943.
United german Europe - bad for everybody.

If city hold,germans would still take Baku and Stalingrad in 1942.Turkey could join then - or not.
If they join,soviet would take them,but at cost of taking less in Europe.

If not,soviets would continue in Europe.

With FDR ruling,do not matter - he would gave Europe to soviets anyway.Well,Hungary and Czech could survive.
With WW,free Europe.

P.S it would be better,if Turkey joined - we would have free Kurdistan now,and postsoviet Turkey incapable of invading anybody.

 

[ahmed ali]

Mitrochin archive is not paranoja,only list of soviet agents.And Wallace in deathcamps of Magadan praised soviet genociders.
He was either idiot or agent - but idiots do not become vice presidents.

Turkey could join germans or not - depend of what their leaders would belive.If they belive that germans would win,like Mussolini,they would attack.If they belived otherwise,like Franco,they would remain neutral.
Both is possible here.

Wendel Willkie would support soviet enough for them to survive,not become superpower,which FDR did.USA in OTL wasted 5 times as much money as Manhattan Project on soviets.
It would not happen here.
Which mean soviets stopped on ukraine.Better for everybody.

But - back to topic.
On East Front we have Rommel,2 more tank dyvisions,and bigger Italian army,including tank and mechanized dyvisions.
What more important,bigger airforces there,too.

They would get to Moscov in 1941,and fight there.If city fall,they could win in 1942 or 1943.
United german Europe - bad for everybody.

If city hold,germans would still take Baku and Stalingrad in 1942.Turkey could join then - or not.
If they join,soviet would take them,but at cost of taking less in Europe.

If not,soviets would continue in Europe.

With FDR ruling,do not matter - he would gave Europe to soviets anyway.Well,Hungary and Czech could survive.
With WW,free Europe.

P.S it would be better,if Turkey joined - we would have free Kurdistan now,and postsoviet Turkey incapable of invading anybody.

I'm talking about post-archive actions and she's just lucky paranoid

And based on what their leaders already believed, Turkey would not simply join the Germans

Helping the Soviets, whether it was enough to survive or become a superpower. Otherwise, Stalin's ruthlessness saved the situation, whether the Soviets simply would not have survived with greater help

He was simply ignorant

Roosevelt is not a god. He barely won in 1940 and 1944, so losing him isn't hard

Now you have proven that you only hate Turkey and its people

A free Kurdistan will not happen because there are Iraq, Iran and Syria, and the Kurds do not deserve to be angry with them, and Kurdistan will be of zero interest and only another Afghanistan

(The freedom of Poland required the collapse of all opposing forces)

 

[ATP]

I'm talking about post-archive actions and she's just lucky paranoid

And based on what their leaders already believed, Turkey would not simply join the Germans

Helping the Soviets, whether it was enough to survive or become a superpower. Otherwise, Stalin's ruthlessness saved the situation, whether the Soviets simply would not have survived with greater help

He was simply ignorant

Roosevelt is not a god. He barely won in 1940 and 1944, so losing him isn't hard

Now you have proven that you only hate Turkey and its people

A free Kurdistan will not happen because there are Iraq, Iran and Syria, and the Kurds do not deserve to be angry with them, and Kurdistan will be of zero interest and only another Afghanistan

(The freedom of Poland required the collapse of all opposing forces)

1.Mitrochin was kgb ,and man,not woman.And he run to british with copies of spy files he copied from memory.
2.Turkey could join like Italy,or not like Spain - depend on how much more germans take in this TL.I would say 50%.
3.Sralin ruthleness decimated his army,without Lend-Lease he would lost it.
4.FDR was not god,but media and Wall Street supported him.Enough to win,when he decide for 3th term.
5.I do not hate kurds and other minorities there,or alavites.
I do not even hate idiots who deny genocide armenians.I pity them,and world would be better if they do not rule there.
6.Iraq and Syria are artifical states,only real one other then Turkey is Iran.Kurdistan could live without that part.
7.And,when Turkey would be conqered in 1944 0r 1945 by soviets/Allies,they would control Iraq,Syria and Iran.They could made as big Kurdistan as they wonted.

 

[ahmed ali]

1.Mitrochin was kgb ,and man,not woman.And he run to british with copies of spy files he copied from memory.
2.Turkey could join like Italy,or not like Spain - depend on how much more germans take in this TL.I would say 50%.
3.Sralin ruthleness decimated his army,without Lend-Lease he would lost it.
4.FDR was not god,but media and Wall Street supported him.Enough to win,when he decide for 3th term.
5.I do not hate kurds and other minorities there,or alavites.
I do not even hate idiots who deny genocide armenians.I pity them,and world would be better if they do not rule there.
6.Iraq and Syria are artifical states,only real one other then Turkey is Iran.Kurdistan could live without that part.
7.And,when Turkey would be conqered in 1944 0r 1945 by soviets/Allies,they would control Iraq,Syria and Iran.They could made as big Kurdistan as they wonted.

Had he been supported he would have won crushing victories in 1940 and 1944 rather than narrow victories.

If they join like Italy, they will lose Hatay and the lands of the Caucasus that the Soviets gave them and some small islands and they will not re-impose Sevres and dissolve the Republic of Turkey in favor of restoring the Ottomans

So they will recognize the horrors of Turkey

Iraq and Syria are not artificial, but they have a more ancient history than Turkey

Kurdistan wants their lands, and they even want the lands of Iran, so no, these three will never accept giving them whatever happens

The Soviets will not occupy because they cannot, because eastern Anatolia is very similar to Afghanistan

People have brains, they are not idiots, if you influenced them, the Democrats would rule continuously until 1970

 

[lordhen]

True enough.He decide to invade Greece,when he could take Egypt after all/there was almost no british forces there in 1940/
If i were less lazy,i would made TL when he attack Egypt for real in 1940.

End it ends with the Germans needing to save him after he mange to srew it up.

 

[ATP]

Had he been supported he would have won crushing victories in 1940 and 1944 rather than narrow victories.

If they join like Italy, they will lose Hatay and the lands of the Caucasus that the Soviets gave them and some small islands and they will not re-impose Sevres and dissolve the Republic of Turkey in favor of restoring the Ottomans

So they will recognize the horrors of Turkey

Iraq and Syria are not artificial, but they have a more ancient history than Turkey

Kurdistan wants their lands, and they even want the lands of Iran, so no, these three will never accept giving them whatever happens

The Soviets will not occupy because they cannot, because eastern Anatolia is very similar to Afghanistan

People have brains, they are not idiots, if you influenced them, the Democrats would rule continuously until 1970

1.Turks could join germans in 1941 0r 1942,if they belived that they win.Could happen with germans taking more lands - or not.
Syria was ancient state - when Greek rules there.By 1940 there was no greeks there.Iraq never was state.
And since both was occupied by Allies,nobody would care about opinions of muslims who ruled there.

Kurdistan would face problems only with Iran,becouse it was ancient state with its own army.

Soviets occupied Afganistan,so why not Anatolia?

People have brains - that is why media brainwashed them to vote for FDR.And they succed.

End it ends with the Germans needing to save him after he mange to srew it up.

Yes,but this time England could not send dyvisions to Switzerland,like they did with Greece - they would finish italians in Libya before Rommel come.

Rommel,2 more tanks dyvisions,and quiet good mechanized italian corp on East Front - germans take more,Turkey could join war.
No matter what happen,even with FDR at least Hungary and maybe Czech would be free.

 

[ahmed ali]

1.Turks could join germans in 1941 0r 1942,if they belived that they win.Could happen with germans taking more lands - or not.
Syria was ancient state - when Greek rules there.By 1940 there was no greeks there.Iraq never was state.
And since both was occupied by Allies,nobody would care about opinions of muslims who ruled there.

Kurdistan would face problems only with Iran,becouse it was ancient state with its own army.

Soviets occupied Afganistan,so why not Anatolia?

People have brains - that is why media brainwashed them to vote for FDR.And they succed.


Yes,but this time England could not send dyvisions to Switzerland,like they did with Greece - they would finish italians in Libya before Rommel come.

Rommel,2 more tanks dyvisions,and quiet good mechanized italian corp on East Front - germans take more,Turkey could join war.
No matter what happen,even with FDR at least Hungary and maybe Czech would be free.

They did it in 1914 and saw the result, so they won't, and stop repeating Turkey's accession because that simply won't happen.

Britain cares because Muslims make up half of their empire and Iraq falls within their domain

And Iraq, Syria, Britain and France, you're wrong

They failed at this and by 1945 the Red Army was on the verge of collapse

So explain to us why he won with difficulty in 1944

 

[sillygoose]

What if, after the 1940 Fall of France, Benito Mussolini goes to war with Switzerland over the Italian-majority Ticino Canton? Based on a population density map of Switzerland, Mussolini can argue that this canton doesn't really belong in Switzerland:

What would Adolf Hitler, the British, the US, and Vichy France do in response to such a war and how would this war itself have went?

Hitler would not accept this and pressure both sides to make concessions quickly, but highly unlikely to get involved so long as Switzerland keeps it local (doesn't try to join the allies or request help) and pressures Italy to stop ASAP. Not sure why Italy would do this given that it is really economically pointless for him compared to the Balkans and Greece.

 

[ATP]

They did it in 1914 and saw the result, so they won't, and stop repeating Turkey's accession because that simply won't happen.

Britain cares because Muslims make up half of their empire and Iraq falls within their domain

And Iraq, Syria, Britain and France, you're wrong

They failed at this and by 1945 the Red Army was on the verge of collapse

So explain to us why he won with difficulty in 1944

1.Depend on what Turkey leaders would belive in 1942.With german taking more land - possible.
2.Hindu made half of their empire.Muslims was not important,unless they had oil.And British do not cared which muslim keep oil,as long as they sell it to british.
Which mean,that Kurds could keep part of oil wells there,too.
3.Syria was great country - when greeks ruled there.Later - not so much,not even one country.The same for Iraq,but it never was one country.
France and England would do what they want - and they do not have reason to deny Kurds state.
4.Soviets on collapse take Berlin.With Lend-lease,but still.If they still get all Lend-Lease from OTL,they would take Turkey and all they get in OTL maybe except Hungary and Czech.
If smarter Republiocans send faction of it,they would still fought on Ukraine.
Do not matter,how good turks would fight - FDR mean occupied Turkey,republicans probably not.
5.Becouse he was soviet useful idiot and dying cripple,and smarter people knew that.Sadly,poles in USA was not smarter and voted for him after he gave us to commies.

 

[ahmed ali]

1.Depend on what Turkey leaders would belive in 1942.With german taking more land - possible.
2.Hindu made half of their empire.Muslims was not important,unless they had oil.And British do not cared which muslim keep oil,as long as they sell it to british.
Which mean,that Kurds could keep part of oil wells there,too.
3.Syria was great country - when greeks ruled there.Later - not so much,not even one country.The same for Iraq,but it never was one country.
France and England would do what they want - and they do not have reason to deny Kurds state.
4.Soviets on collapse take Berlin.With Lend-lease,but still.If they still get all Lend-Lease from OTL,they would take Turkey and all they get in OTL maybe except Hungary and Czech.
If smarter Republiocans send faction of it,they would still fought on Ukraine.
Do not matter,how good turks would fight - FDR mean occupied Turkey,republicans probably not.
5.Becouse he was soviet useful idiot and dying cripple,and smarter people knew that.Sadly,poles in USA was not smarter and voted for him after he gave us to commies.

Discussing with you is pointless

Your arguments have been refuted many times and you are still adamant

 

[ATP]

Discussing with you is pointless

Your arguments have been refuted many times and you are still adamant

Not my arguments.John G.Hill created scenario in which Turkey joined germans/Into the Caucasus" in "Third Reich Victorious"edited by Peter Tsouras,in which pro-german army officers made putch removing president Inonu in 1943 and attacked soviets.
Like general Emil Erkilet.

And, i do not say that would happen for sure,only that you could toss coin.

Moreover,it do not matter - FDR would gave Europe to soviets with possible exception of Hungary and Czech,when Republicans would not gave sralin anything.

Well,it would matter for kurds - if Turkey join war on german side,kurds would get their freedom.Or not,if it would be soviet kurdish state.In that case they would longing for turkish yoke.

 

[ahmed ali]

Not my arguments.John G.Hill created scenario in which Turkey joined germans/Into the Caucasus" in "Third Reich Victorious"edited by Peter Tsouras,in which pro-german army officers made putch removing president Inonu in 1943 and attacked soviets.
Like general Emil Erkilet.

And, i do not say that would happen for sure,only that you could toss coin.

Moreover,it do not matter - FDR would gave Europe to soviets with possible exception of Hungary and Czech,when Republicans would not gave sralin anything.

Well,it would matter for kurds - if Turkey join war on german side,kurds would get their freedom.Or not,if it would be soviet kurdish state.In that case they would longing for turkish yoke.

John Hill is not a prophet, he is a human being, and his hypothesis that Turkey joins the war on the German side has several scenarios with different outcomes.

It will not happen, the Turkish army itself supported the position of Ismet Inonu (and Ismet Inonu is also a military officer) and even supported joining the Allies.

Even Hitler himself planned to invade Turkey

Did Transylvania return to Hungary when it was occupied by the Soviets? No, it remained part of Romania

Did Dobruja go back to Romania when it was occupied by the Soviets? No, it remained part of Bulgaria

So even if the Soviets occupied Turkey, Kurdistan would not be created and Turkey would keep its borders.

Did Roosevelt give Western Europe to the Soviets?

No, and if he took all of Europe, he wouldn't give it to the Soviets, because basically the Soviets took over Eastern Europe.

So your arguments are wrong and absurd

 

[ATP]

John Hill is not a prophet, he is a human being, and his hypothesis that Turkey joins the war on the German side has several scenarios with different outcomes.

It will not happen, the Turkish army itself supported the position of Ismet Inonu (and Ismet Inonu is also a military officer) and even supported joining the Allies.

Even Hitler himself planned to invade Turkey

Did Transylvania return to Hungary when it was occupied by the Soviets? No, it remained part of Romania

Did Dobruja go back to Romania when it was occupied by the Soviets? No, it remained part of Bulgaria

So even if the Soviets occupied Turkey, Kurdistan would not be created and Turkey would keep its borders.

Did Roosevelt give Western Europe to the Soviets?

No, and if he took all of Europe, he wouldn't give it to the Soviets, because basically the Soviets took over Eastern Europe.

So your arguments are wrong and absurd

1.Are you God? becouse i claim that after taking Baku Turkey MAY invade soviets,and may not.
But you knew for sure,that Turkey would do nothing.

2.Turkish army supported Inonu when germans do not take Baku.After that,it could change,becouse generals like Emil Erkilet was antisoviet and progermans.

3.Yes,Hitler planned invade Turkey - IF THEY DO NOT AGREE TO ALLIANCE.
Poland in 1939 was invaded,becouse we refused Alliance with Germany.

4.Kurdistan - they are their own nations,so soviet would made their state.Or Allies - they promised free Kurdistan after WW1.
Considering how turks try and fail turning them into mountain turks,i could see why.

5.FDR gave East Europe to soviets in Techeran in 1943,that is why Allies do not go through Italy,but France.
If he was president,then even after germans taking more soviet territory,all territories do not claimed by Allies would go to soviets.
Hungary had chance to get western troops,if soviet come later,but that is only difference.

So,Turkey joining war change notching except fate of Kurds.

 

[ahmed ali]

1.Are you God? becouse i claim that after taking Baku Turkey MAY invade soviets,and may not.
But you knew for sure,that Turkey would do nothing.

2.Turkish army supported Inonu when germans do not take Baku.After that,it could change,becouse generals like Emil Erkilet was antisoviet and progermans.

3.Yes,Hitler planned invade Turkey - IF THEY DO NOT AGREE TO ALLIANCE.
Poland in 1939 was invaded,becouse we refused Alliance with Germany.

4.Kurdistan - they are their own nations,so soviet would made their state.Or Allies - they promised free Kurdistan after WW1.
Considering how turks try and fail turning them into mountain turks,i could see why.

5.FDR gave East Europe to soviets in Techeran in 1943,that is why Allies do not go through Italy,but France.
If he was president,then even after germans taking more soviet territory,all territories do not claimed by Allies would go to soviets.
Hungary had chance to get western troops,if soviet come later,but that is only difference.

So,Turkey joining war change notching except fate of Kurds.

Since Turkey has memories of the Turkish National War and the Treaty of Sevres, this made them anti-war (they barely kept Anatolia) especially fighting on the side of the Germans.

So no, Turkey will not fight alongside the Germans (Spain will fight alongside the Germans more than Turkey).

Emil Erclet is in the minority. Most of the generals are either neutral or pro-war on the Allied side

(Ataturk himself will not fight alongside the Germans, and this alone will persuade the generals to either be neutral or fight on the side of the Allies)

So no, Turkey would also not agree to an alliance (they threatened war if Bulgaria helped Italy invade Greece).

Unlike Poland, Turkey is friendly towards the Soviets because the Bolsheviks helped Ataturk

Kurdistan did not even get a state from Iran, and the good relations of the Soviet Union towards the Arabs do not deserve to be spoiled for the sake of the Kurds.

(The West alone supported Turkey and Iran, and the Soviet Union alone supported Syria and Iraq, and if Turkey was added to the influence of the Soviet Union, it would strengthen the Soviet Union's decision not to support the Kurds, but communist Turkey might commit ethnic cleansing against the Kurds with the support of the Soviet Union)

Franklin Roosevelt is not required to run. He may decide to adhere to the Washington precedent, which is still very strong, and we get another person.

 

[ATP]

Since Turkey has memories of the Turkish National War and the Treaty of Sevres, this made them anti-war (they barely kept Anatolia) especially fighting on the side of the Germans.

So no, Turkey will not fight alongside the Germans (Spain will fight alongside the Germans more than Turkey).

Emil Erclet is in the minority. Most of the generals are either neutral or pro-war on the Allied side

(Ataturk himself will not fight alongside the Germans, and this alone will persuade the generals to either be neutral or fight on the side of the Allies)

So no, Turkey would also not agree to an alliance (they threatened war if Bulgaria helped Italy invade Greece).

Unlike Poland, Turkey is friendly towards the Soviets because the Bolsheviks helped Ataturk

Kurdistan did not even get a state from Iran, and the good relations of the Soviet Union towards the Arabs do not deserve to be spoiled for the sake of the Kurds.

(The West alone supported Turkey and Iran, and the Soviet Union alone supported Syria and Iraq, and if Turkey was added to the influence of the Soviet Union, it would strengthen the Soviet Union's decision not to support the Kurds, but communist Turkey might commit ethnic cleansing against the Kurds with the support of the Soviet Union)

Franklin Roosevelt is not required to run. He may decide to adhere to the Washington precedent, which is still very strong, and we get another person.

They remained neutral in OTL.In this TL with germans taking more,we have good chance for them changing their mind.Nations do not have allies,but interests.Well,except idiots like us who die for allies.

And,after defeating Turkey,creating Kurdistan would be natural option for any occupant.

But,back to topic.Italians would lost Africa,send more troops to soviets - and face T.34 there.There would be Semovente M.32,25 and maybe even 46 in 1942.
Fighters with 20mm guns,too.
And,they would fall probably in 1944,not 1943 like in OTL.Both Allies and soviets would need crush Turkey first.

 

[ahmed ali]

They remained neutral in OTL.In this TL with germans taking more,we have good chance for them changing their mind.Nations do not have allies,but interests.Well,except idiots like us who die for allies.

And,after defeating Turkey,creating Kurdistan would be natural option for any occupant.

But,back to topic.Italians would lost Africa,send more troops to soviets - and face T.34 there.There would be Semovente M.32,25 and maybe even 46 in 1942.
Fighters with 20mm guns,too.
And,they would fall probably in 1944,not 1943 like in OTL.Both Allies and soviets would need crush Turkey first.

It won't happen and they won't change their mind. It's over, and Turkey won't join in, because there are more reasons for it not to happen than for it to happen

Africa will fall and this will not change

And Turkey will change its positions, like Italy, because they know that this will happen, so the coup will overthrow the president and change his positions.

After the war, Hatay returned to Syria, and the borders of Turkey and the Soviet Union returned to the 1914 borders

The dissolution of the Turkish Republic in favor of the restoration of the Ottoman Empire

Are there reasons for your insistence on Turkey joining the axis?

 

[ATP]

It won't happen and they won't change their mind. It's over, and Turkey won't join in, because there are more reasons for it not to happen than for it to happen

Africa will fall and this will not change

And Turkey will change its positions, like Italy, because they know that this will happen, so the coup will overthrow the president and change his positions.

After the war, Hatay returned to Syria, and the borders of Turkey and the Soviet Union returned to the 1914 borders

The dissolution of the Turkish Republic in favor of the restoration of the Ottoman Empire

Are there reasons for your insistence on Turkey joining the axis?

I do not insist on it,only state fact that if german take Baku,Turkey probably would do that.
That is all.
When you for some reason think that turks would never ever join germans.Why?
Politics is not about morality,but interests.At least for all countries except Poland.If Turkey leaders belived that germans would win,they would join them .That is all.

Of course,germans would still lost,and turks with them.In that case,we would have soviet Turkey with some lands given to armenians,and Alied Kurdistan.

Aside from that,notching change except possibly free Hungary and Czech,becouse Democrats would gave Central Europe to soviets like in OTL.

 

[ahmed ali]

I do not insist on it,only state fact that if german take Baku,Turkey probably would do that.
That is all.
When you for some reason think that turks would never ever join germans.Why?
Politics is not about morality,but interests.At least for all countries except Poland.If Turkey leaders belived that germans would win,they would join them .That is all.

Of course,germans would still lost,and turks with them.In that case,we would have soviet Turkey with some lands given to armenians,and Alied Kurdistan.

Aside from that,notching change except possibly free Hungary and Czech,becouse Democrats would gave Central Europe to soviets like in OTL.

The Nazis took over France in 1940 and Spain did not join, so the Germans might take Baku and Turkey would not join the Axis.

This is why Turkey will not simply join because their interest is clearly against that because if they join the Allies they gain nothing, and if they reach the Axis they gain nothing and lose a lot.

And I never mentioned morals here

Hungary, the Czech Republic, Yugoslavia and Albania may be liberated if Operation Valkyrie succeeds, and Turkey's Axis is not a condition for this.

Nor would Roosevelt dare oppose a moderate peace toward Germany because 1944 was a particularly election year and his intransigence against Germany would have cost him the loss of the 1944 election to Thomas Dewey.

Because the slogan of the Republicans will simply become peace and the return of the soldiers, and because they will accuse him of wanting to kill American soldiers, which is something that people will simply want.

It is an excuse that not even a Soviet spy can refute, especially since Roosevelt barely won in 1944, and victory in the war does not guarantee victory in the elections.

(Churchill won the war and was defeated in the election)

 

[ATP]

The Nazis took over France in 1940 and Spain did not join, so the Germans might take Baku and Turkey would not join the Axis.

This is why Turkey will not simply join because their interest is clearly against that because if they join the Allies they gain nothing, and if they reach the Axis they gain nothing and lose a lot.

And I never mentioned morals here

Hungary, the Czech Republic, Yugoslavia and Albania may be liberated if Operation Valkyrie succeeds, and Turkey's Axis is not a condition for this.

Nor would Roosevelt dare oppose a moderate peace toward Germany because 1944 was a particularly election year and his intransigence against Germany would have cost him the loss of the 1944 election to Thomas Dewey.

Because the slogan of the Republicans will simply become peace and the return of the soldiers, and because they will accuse him of wanting to kill American soldiers, which is something that people will simply want.

It is an excuse that not even a Soviet spy can refute, especially since Roosevelt barely won in 1944, and victory in the war does not guarantee victory in the elections.

(Churchill won the war and was defeated in the election)

Spain do not joined,becouse Franco was catholic who hated socialists.And germans were socialists.
Moreover,Canaris warned him to not join.

Without such visit,and without hate for socialists in Turkey,we had 50% chance of joining.

FDR would made peace if Valkyrie succed - but it was impossible.You need kill Hitler earlier for that.