After the 1940 Fall of France, Benito Mussolini goes to war with Switzerland over the Italian-majority Ticino Canton

[ahmed ali]

Spain do not joined,becouse Franco was catholic who hated socialists.And germans were socialists.
Moreover,Canaris warned him to not join.

Without such visit,and without hate for socialists in Turkey,we had 50% chance of joining.

FDR would made peace if Valkyrie succed - but it was impossible.You need kill Hitler earlier for that.

So, for the same reason, Turkey will not join

Killing Hitler is very easy, just put an extra bomb in the bag and Hitler won't survive

 

[ATP]

So, for the same reason, Turkey will not join

Killing Hitler is very easy, just put an extra bomb in the bag and Hitler won't survive

You for some reason belive that Turkey would not join.
Me? after taking Baku,we have good chance for that.That is all.

Killing Hitler change notching in 1944 - SS would take power.You need kill him before SS becomed so powerfull.
1942,maybe 1943.

 

[ahmed ali]

You for some reason belive that Turkey would not join.
Me? after taking Baku,we have good chance for that.That is all.

Killing Hitler change notching in 1944 - SS would take power.You need kill him before SS becomed so powerfull.
1942,maybe 1943.

Because Turkey simply would not trust the Germans after the First World War

Himmler is the Nazi Lavrenty Beria and the rest of the Nazis hated him and this will help the Valkyrie putschists

 

[ATP]

Because Turkey simply would not trust the Germans after the First World War

Himmler is the Nazi Lavrenty Beria and the rest of the Nazis hated him and this will help the Valkyrie putschists

That is difference between us.For you Turkey never ever would join Hitler.Becouse.
For me - they would probably join after taking Baku,but could still wait.

Himmler was not liked,yes - but his also have personal army,and controlled forces in Germany.
So,he would win.

 

[ahmed ali]

That is difference between us.For you Turkey never ever would join Hitler.Becouse.
For me - they would probably join after taking Baku,but could still wait.

Himmler was not liked,yes - but his also have personal army,and controlled forces in Germany.
So,he would win.

Paris and Spain fell, remained neutral, so Baku will fall. Turkey will remain neutral

Hemler will not succeed in his personal army, he has no chance against Wehrmacht

 

[ATP]

Paris and Spain fell, remained neutral, so Baku will fall. Turkey will remain neutral

Hemler will not succeed in his personal army, he has no chance against Wehrmacht

You are sure that Turkey would remain neutral.Why? becouse they were moral? if they were moral,they would not genocide armenians.

No,Turkey,just like all other states except Poland,did what they think was best for joining winning side.
If they thought that germans are winning side,they would join them.That is all.
And,after Baku fell,it would be possible.
But,unlike you,i am not 100% sure what they would do- they would probably join germans,or still wait.

 

[ahmed ali]

You are sure that Turkey would remain neutral.Why? becouse they were moral? if they were moral,they would not genocide armenians.

No,Turkey,just like all other states except Poland,did what they think was best for joining winning side.
If they thought that germans are winning side,they would join them.That is all.
And,after Baku fell,it would be possible.
But,unlike you,i am not 100% sure what they would do- they would probably join germans,or still wait.

Because they simply got away with losing Anatolia and would never risk it again.

They did it with the Allies

After World War I, they would not see this possible if they lost the first, because winning the second is not at all guaranteed.

After the events of 1918-1923 is very unlikely

They will not (Ataturk and Inonu are not a fan of Hitler and Bulgaria is Hitler's ally and has hostile relations with Turkey and Italy and Turkey has very hostile relations)

 

[ATP]

Because they simply got away with losing Anatolia and would never risk it again.

They did it with the Allies

After World War I, they would not see this possible if they lost the first, because winning the second is not at all guaranteed.

After the events of 1918-1923 is very unlikely

They will not (Ataturk and Inonu are not a fan of Hitler and Bulgaria is Hitler's ally and has hostile relations with Turkey and Italy and Turkey has very hostile relations)

You are beliver who belive that Turkey would never ever join germans.
Why? they were no naive children like we,they did what in their opinion helped them.
If they belive that attacking soviets would help them,they would go for it.
Probably after taking Baku by germans,very probable after taking both Baku and Stalingrad.

But,since i am not beliver like you,i am not 100% sure that they would attack even then.

But,no matter what happen,it not matter - FDR or other democrat would gave Europe to sralin anyway.Only difference is,that in case when turks joined,Kurds would be free ....in soviet state.Poor dudes.

 

[ahmed ali]

You are beliver who belive that Turkey would never ever join germans.
Why? they were no naive children like we,they did what in their opinion helped them.
If they belive that attacking soviets would help them,they would go for it.
Probably after taking Baku by germans,very probable after taking both Baku and Stalingrad.

But,since i am not beliver like you,i am not 100% sure that they would attack even then.

But,no matter what happen,it not matter - FDR or other democrat would gave Europe to sralin anyway.Only difference is,that in case when turks joined,Kurds would be free ....in soviet state.Poor dudes.

You are a stupid person

You have said that Turkey will never join the Germans because they are very afraid of re-imposing the Treaties of Sevres, and that is something Turkey never wants, which is why it will remain neutral.

(Read the history of the Turkish National War and the Treaty of Sevres before speaking stubbornly)

The Soviets helped Turkey against Greece, so no, relations are very good and only got worse after the war in 1946 (read history and the role of Lenin and the Soviets in helping Mustafa Kemal Atatürk)

(Bulgaria, an ally of Hitler, has bad relations with Turkey, and this is another reason)

The Kurds will not be liberated there, Iraq, Syria and Iran, and the Soviets will try to court Iraq and Syria, and this will keep them away from the Soviets, so the Kurds will not be liberated, but they will simply face ethnic cleansing

(Transylvania did not return to Hungary after the war)

Even Roosevelt would not give Europe to Stalin if he took it all, or France would become communist

 

[ATP]

You are a stupid person

You have said that Turkey will never join the Germans because they are very afraid of re-imposing the Treaties of Sevres, and that is something Turkey never wants, which is why it will remain neutral.

(Read the history of the Turkish National War and the Treaty of Sevres before speaking stubbornly)

The Soviets helped Turkey against Greece, so no, relations are very good and only got worse after the war in 1946 (read history and the role of Lenin and the Soviets in helping Mustafa Kemal Atatürk)

(Bulgaria, an ally of Hitler, has bad relations with Turkey, and this is another reason)

The Kurds will not be liberated there, Iraq, Syria and Iran, and the Soviets will try to court Iraq and Syria, and this will keep them away from the Soviets, so the Kurds will not be liberated, but they will simply face ethnic cleansing

(Transylvania did not return to Hungary after the war)

Even Roosevelt would not give Europe to Stalin if he took it all, or France would become communist

And you are beliver who knew that Turkey would never ever join germans.
When they,like every other country,did what they think is good for them.

Well,except Poland,we die for others.

I knew history of turkish genociding both armenians and greeks.They were genociders,so they would not join germans? sorry,weak argument.

You also belive that soviets would not liberate kurds.Soviets liberated every nation - which mean ethnic cleansing in practice.But those kurds who survive would be very greteful for that!

By the way - it is another proof,that you do not undarstandt how soviets operated.They always liberated,genocides,and made remnants thanks them for genociding them.
The same would be with kurds.

And,if sralin take entire Europe,FDR would be no needed for him at all.

 

[ahmed ali]

And you are beliver who knew that Turkey would never ever join germans.
When they,like every other country,did what they think is good for them.

Well,except Poland,we die for others.

I knew history of turkish genociding both armenians and greeks.They were genociders,so they would not join germans? sorry,weak argument.

You also belive that soviets would not liberate kurds.Soviets liberated every nation - which mean ethnic cleansing in practice.But those kurds who survive would be very greteful for that!

By the way - it is another proof,that you do not undarstandt how soviets operated.They always liberated,genocides,and made remnants thanks them for genociding them.
The same would be with kurds.

And,if sralin take entire Europe,FDR would be no needed for him at all.

Did the Soviets liberate Slovakia or the peoples of Yugoslavia?

No, they did not, but even planned to unify the Balkans within Yugoslavia, so no, the Kurds will not be liberated, but rather they will be exterminated to gain the Turkish communists, and Turkey will keep its borders even when it is communist

(Even Stalin replaced Poland's loss of the East with German lands to win the Polish Communists and give them legitimacy)

Weak argument huh

This has been the focus of Turkey's foreign policy since 1923, which is avoiding by any means the re-imposition of the Sevres treaties, and this means avoiding war by any means because it will lead to the re-imposition of the Sevres treaties

This means that neutrality is beneficial to them, stupid (Spain has a greater chance of joining the axis than Turkey).

It is you who do not understand

This is why Franklin Roosevelt kept Western Europe

 

[ATP]

Did the Soviets liberate Slovakia or the peoples of Yugoslavia?

No, they did not, but even planned to unify the Balkans within Yugoslavia, so no, the Kurds will not be liberated, but rather they will be exterminated to gain the Turkish communists, and Turkey will keep its borders even when it is communist

(Even Stalin replaced Poland's loss of the East with German lands to win the Polish Communists and give them legitimacy)

Weak argument huh

This has been the focus of Turkey's foreign policy since 1923, which is avoiding by any means the re-imposition of the Sevres treaties, and this means avoiding war by any means because it will lead to the re-imposition of the Sevres treaties

This means that neutrality is beneficial to them, stupid (Spain has a greater chance of joining the axis than Turkey).

It is you who do not understand

This is why Franklin Roosevelt kept Western Europe

Your Faith is strong,but tell me,how do you knew that turks would not join germans after they take Baku and Stalingrad?

And,why soviets after victory should care about defeated turks feelings,when they could have loyal Kurdish state ?

I think,that both is very probable,but,unless you,i am not 100 % sure.
Becouse i do not belive in Turkey joining or not Hitler,but Jesus and Holy Mary.

 

[ahmed ali]

Your Faith is strong,but tell me,how do you knew that turks would not join germans after they take Baku and Stalingrad?

And,why soviets after victory should care about defeated turks feelings,when they could have loyal Kurdish state ?

I think,that both is very probable,but,unless you,i am not 100 % sure.
Becouse i do not belive in Turkey joining or not Hitler,but Jesus and Holy Mary.

For the same reason they did with Poland

(Strengthening East Germany would have been realistically a better idea for the Soviets, but their position in Poland would become unsustainable, so not compensating Poland would have hurt them.)

They cared about the feelings of the Bulgarians and the Romanians, and they are actual members of the Axis and participated in Barbarossa
Dobruja is not returned to Romania and Transylvania is not returned to Hungary, so there will be no Kurdish state

I believe in God Almighty and His Prophet Muhammad, but the facts are very clear

(Turkey would never join an anti-Soviet side that did not include Britain and France, and they learned this in 1918 the hard way.)

Maintaining their borders and avoiding the re-imposition of Sefer in the Turkish psyche is the same Trianon in the Hungarian psyche that will guide their actions.

 

[ATP]

For the same reason they did with Poland

(Strengthening East Germany would have been realistically a better idea for the Soviets, but their position in Poland would become unsustainable, so not compensating Poland would have hurt them.)

They cared about the feelings of the Bulgarians and the Romanians, and they are actual members of the Axis and participated in Barbarossa
Dobruja is not returned to Romania and Transylvania is not returned to Hungary, so there will be no Kurdish state

I believe in God Almighty and His Prophet Muhammad, but the facts are very clear

(Turkey would never join an anti-Soviet side that did not include Britain and France, and they learned this in 1918 the hard way.)

Maintaining their borders and avoiding the re-imposition of Sefer in the Turkish psyche is the same Trianon in the Hungarian psyche that will guide their actions.

So,you belive in Turkey not joining Hitler no matter what,not Machomet.

And,just like soviets gave western parts of germany to Poland becouse germans attacked them,they would gave Kurds their state,becouse turks attacked them,not kurds.
Of course,later soviets would genocide kurds in their independent state,so they wish for turks return - but,it is another story.

 

[ahmed ali]

So,you belive in Turkey not joining Hitler no matter what,not Machomet.

And,just like soviets gave western parts of germany to Poland becouse germans attacked them,they would gave Kurds their state,becouse turks attacked them,not kurds.
Of course,later soviets would genocide kurds in their independent state,so they wish for turks return - but,it is another story.

I will concede and say that Turkey will join Hitler

But only on one condition and it will never happen without it

(If the Treaty of Sevres is successfully implemented and lost to Greece, Turkey becomes like Hungary.)

Did East Prussia and Silesia gain independence? No, so this will not happen to the Kurds

And I believe in God and Muhammad

 

[ATP]

I will concede and say that Turkey will join Hitler

But only on one condition and it will never happen without it

(If the Treaty of Sevres is successfully implemented and lost to Greece, Turkey becomes like Hungary.)

Did East Prussia and Silesia gain independence? No, so this will not happen to the Kurds

And I believe in God and Muhammad

You still belive in Turkey not joining germans no matter what.
I knew,that after taking Baku it is probable,and if germans take Stalingrad,it is almost assured.
But,they could still remain neutral,althought it is unprobable.

prussia and silesia was part of germany,who lost war.That is why they lost it,too.

Since turks would lost war as german allies,they would lost territories,too.Which mean free soviet Kurdistan.
Where Kurds would be still genocided,and pray for turks to return.

P.S IT is Machomet.

 

[ahmed ali]

You still belive in Turkey not joining germans no matter what.
I knew,that after taking Baku it is probable,and if germans take Stalingrad,it is almost assured.
But,they could still remain neutral,althought it is unprobable.

prussia and silesia was part of germany,who lost war.That is why they lost it,too.

Since turks would lost war as german allies,they would lost territories,too.Which mean free soviet Kurdistan.
Where Kurds would be still genocided,and pray for turks to return.

P.S IT is Machomet.

Will Hungary join the Germans if they avoid the Trianon? No you won't

The same applies to Turkey

The Kurds will not have a state at the end of the story

I am an Arab and pronounce Muhammad like this

 

[ATP]

Will Hungary join the Germans if they avoid the Trianon? No you won't

The same applies to Turkey

The Kurds will not have a state at the end of the story

I am an Arab and pronounce Muhammad like this

Was Italy victim of Trianon? no? yet they still joined Hitler,becouse they thought he would win.
The same goes for Turkey - if they thought in 1942 that germans would win,they would joined them.

And kurds would get their state as turks victim after soviets take over.And then genocided in their own "free" commie state to the point when they pray for turks return.

You are on western forum - so,it is Machomet here.If i were on arab forum,i could consider that.Or not,in Poland it is Machomet.

 

[ahmed ali]

Was Italy victim of Trianon? no? yet they still joined Hitler,becouse they thought he would win.
The same goes for Turkey - if they thought in 1942 that germans would win,they would joined them.

And kurds would get their state as turks victim after soviets take over.And then genocided in their own "free" commie state to the point when they pray for turks return.

You are on western forum - so,it is Machomet here.If i were on arab forum,i could consider that.Or not,in Poland it is Machomet.

yes Italy has its own Trianon and its name is the Vittoria Motellata, or distorted Victory, because the Entente did not give Italy the benefits of the London Treaty of 1915

The Kurds will not get their own state because this will simply kill any future good relationship between the Soviets and their Arab allies and sabotage any legitimacy of the Turkish communists.

Or simply return them to their original land, which is within Armenia, and establish their state in it (Stalin's plans to reduce the number of Armenians)

Oh, you are Polish, your country is wonderful

 

[ATP]

yes Italy has its own Trianon and its name is the Vittoria Motellata, or distorted Victory, because the Entente did not give Italy the benefits of the London Treaty of 1915

The Kurds will not get their own state because this will simply kill any future good relationship between the Soviets and their Arab allies and sabotage any legitimacy of the Turkish communists.

Or simply return them to their original land, which is within Armenia, and establish their state in it (Stalin's plans to reduce the number of Armenians)

Oh, you are Polish, your country is wonderful

It was not Trianon.Italian generals fucked up and almost lost their country,so french and brits must saved them.That is why they do not get their part of loot.But still get enough to not complain.

Arabs mostly do not cared about Kurds,unless they lived in Syria.And turks would be beaten,so soviets would not care about their opinion.

In this scenario,Kurds would be treated as poles - formally they were no enemies,so would get their own state.
Althought...soviets killed only about 200.000 poles from 1945 till 1956,so,maybe Kurds would be treated well,too.
Well compared to normal soviets,Sralin killed at least million of them per year.

Yes,Poland is wonderfull - for now.Germans want destroy us,Moscov want the same,we have entire hordes of traitors and USA could sell us to Moscov any given moment.

If we survive,it would be only thanks to Jesus and Holy Mary.