After the 1940 Fall of France, Benito Mussolini goes to war with Switzerland over the Italian-majority Ticino Canton

[WolfBear]

What if, after the 1940 Fall of France, Benito Mussolini goes to war with Switzerland over the Italian-majority Ticino Canton? Based on a population density map of Switzerland, Mussolini can argue that this canton doesn't really belong in Switzerland:

What would Adolf Hitler, the British, the US, and Vichy France do in response to such a war and how would this war itself have went?

 

[ahmed ali]

The Balkan front was averted and the invasion of Greece was avoided, so the Balkans remained neutral

The invasion of Switzerland drains the axis severely, but we will win the axis

It will be divided between Germany and Italy only

After the loss of the Axis Switzerland is greatly enlarged and gives up neutrality

 

[ATP]

The Balkan front was averted and the invasion of Greece was avoided, so the Balkans remained neutral

The invasion of Switzerland drains the axis severely, but we will win the axis

It will be divided between Germany and Italy only

After the loss of the Axis Switzerland is greatly enlarged and gives up neutrality

Exactly.They join NATO,and maybe get some additional italian and german territory.
Changes in WW2 -
becouse british do not send anything to Greece,Libya fall in 1941.Rommel and 2 armored dyvisions on East Front - they partially take Moscov in 1941,and Baku in 1942.
Soviets without 50% of their oil advance slower.
Free Hungary,Yugoslavia and maybe Bulgary.

If Turkey join germans,taken by soviets.Poland and Czech still given to sralin for notching.

Much better world,with few more free countries.And,if soviet take Turkey,they would not made troubles now.

 

[ahmed ali]

Exactly.They join NATO,and maybe get some additional italian and german territory.
Changes in WW2 -
becouse british do not send anything to Greece,Libya fall in 1941.Rommel and 2 armored dyvisions on East Front - they partially take Moscov in 1941,and Baku in 1942.
Soviets without 50% of their oil advance slower.
Free Hungary,Yugoslavia and maybe Bulgary.

If Turkey join germans,taken by soviets.Poland and Czech still given to sralin for notching.

Much better world,with few more free countries.And,if soviet take Turkey,they would not made troubles now.

After what happened twenty years ago, Turkey wants the moon and some stars to trust the Germans again, and this will not happen

The best option is for Turkey to join the Allies around 1940

(They threatened that if Bulgaria intervened to help Italy against Greece) defeat Bulgaria and Romania, liberate Greece, Albania and Yugoslavia, and occupy Bulgaria and Romania.

The Iron Curtain is Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary (the Americans liberated the Czechs and the Soviets liberated Slovakia)

 

[ATP]

After what happened twenty years ago, Turkey wants the moon and some stars to trust the Germans again, and this will not happen

The best option is for Turkey to join the Allies around 1940

(They threatened that if Bulgaria intervened to help Italy against Greece) defeat Bulgaria and Romania, liberate Greece, Albania and Yugoslavia, and occupy Bulgaria and Romania.

The Iron Curtain is Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary (the Americans liberated the Czechs and the Soviets liberated Slovakia)

If Baku fall in 1942/possible with Rommel,2 more armored dyvisions,and more italians there/ then Turkey would join germans.
And get occupied by soviets later.

But,even in your scenario,soviets would get Romania and Czech,when Hungary could be free.It is what would happen if Allies go through Balkans.

P.S Italians on East Front fought well - when soviets encircled them in early 1943,they go through in bayonet charge.
Here.what normally go to Africa would go East - 10 dyvisions more,including 2 tanks/with light tanks,but still/

And Greece would be never attacked - italians would bleed in Switzerland ,and send later to soviets before they could do so.

 

[ahmed ali]

If Baku fall in 1942/possible with Rommel,2 more armored dyvisions,and more italians there/ then Turkey would join germans.
And get occupied by soviets later.

But,even in your scenario,soviets would get Romania and Czech,when Hungary could be free.It is what would happen if Allies go through Balkans.

P.S Italians on East Front fought well - when soviets encircled them in early 1943,they go through in bayonet charge.
Here.what normally go to Africa would go East - 10 dyvisions more,including 2 tanks/with light tanks,but still/

And Greece would be never attacked - italians would bleed in Switzerland ,and send later to soviets before they could do so.

Turkey will never join the Germans after what happened, and even if they did, the Soviets would not conquer it because it is too rugged and they cannot

Greece will never be attacked. This means that there will be no coup in Yugoslavia. This means that Yugoslavia will remain in the axis. This means that Bulgaria will remain neutral.

And if Baku was occupied, this would be a fatal blow, because the Soviets desperately needed its oil, and without it we would collapse

 

[ATP]

Turkey will never join the Germans after what happened, and even if they did, the Soviets would not conquer it because it is too rugged and they cannot

Greece will never be attacked. This means that there will be no coup in Yugoslavia. This means that Yugoslavia will remain in the axis. This means that Bulgaria will remain neutral.

And if Baku was occupied, this would be a fatal blow, because the Soviets desperately needed its oil, and without it we would collapse

Turks would join those who look like winning.In 1942 after german taking Baku it would be them.
And,soviets conqered rugged territories in Hungary and Romania.Facing better opponents.

Becouse turkish army had good infrantry,164 light tanks,400 obsolate planes and obsolate artillery.And would be attacked from Iran,Syria and soviet territory.

Agree about Greece ,but british would made putch in Yugoslavia anyway.And Bulgary never mattered.

Baku - yes,it would stop soviet offensives till they retake it.Good for Europe,maybe Poland would remain free thanks to that.

 

[ahmed ali]

Turks would join those who look like winning.In 1942 after german taking Baku it would be them.
And,soviets conqered rugged territories in Hungary and Romania.Facing better opponents.

Becouse turkish army had good infrantry,164 light tanks,400 obsolate planes and obsolate artillery.And would be attacked from Iran,Syria and soviet territory.

Agree about Greece ,but british would made putch in Yugoslavia anyway.And Bulgary never mattered.

Baku - yes,it would stop soviet offensives till they retake it.Good for Europe,maybe Poland would remain free thanks to that.

The Turks will join the Germans when the Wehrmacht marches through the streets of London, and then they will join them

This means avoiding communist Europe and Turkey. The Soviets would simply take only the Baltic states and eastern Poland

Hungary and Romania are rugged, but eastern Turkey is basically more like Afghanistan, and there are no flat roads except from the south, and this will help the West, not the Soviets.

 

[ATP]

The Turks will join the Germans when the Wehrmacht marches through the streets of London, and then they will join them

This means avoiding communist Europe and Turkey. The Soviets would simply take only the Baltic states and eastern Poland

Hungary and Romania are rugged, but eastern Turkey is basically more like Afghanistan, and there are no flat roads except from the south, and this will help the West, not the Soviets.

Turks almost joined germans in 1942 in OTL - when Baku fall,they would do that.
And soviets would get what idiot FDR gave them - which mean at least part of germany,entire Poland and probably Czech.

Soviets had no problems in Manchuria,so they would take over part of Turkey,too.

All in all - world better for everybody except turks and poles,but Poland was fucked anyway.

 

[ahmed ali]

Turks almost joined germans in 1942 in OTL - when Baku fall,they would do that.
And soviets would get what idiot FDR gave them - which mean at least part of germany,entire Poland and probably Czech.

Soviets had no problems in Manchuria,so they would take over part of Turkey,too.

All in all - world better for everybody except turks and poles,but Poland was fucked anyway.

The Turks will not join the Germans even if Moscow falls, do you understand? They will not join the Germans no matter what

There is no guarantee that Roosevelt will win in 1940 or even decide to run (rest assured Wendell Weekly wants to step in like Roosevelt does)

It is not a condition that Poland will continue to fall to the Soviets that the West may liberate it

 

[ATP]

The Turks will not join the Germans even if Moscow falls, do you understand? They will not join the Germans no matter what

There is no guarantee that Roosevelt will win in 1940 or even decide to run (rest assured Wendell Weekly wants to step in like Roosevelt does)

It is not a condition that Poland will continue to fall to the Soviets that the West may liberate it

1.According to what i read,turks considered it in 1942.
2.Yes,elections in 1940 were made in a way which made FDR victory sure thing
3.Republicans could save us,problem is - they do not have chance to win.And Democrats would always gave us to soviets.It is in their genes.

 

[ahmed ali]

1.According to what i read,turks considered it in 1942.
2.Yes,elections in 1940 were made in a way which made FDR victory sure thing
3.Republicans could save us,problem is - they do not have chance to win.And Democrats would always gave us to soviets.It is in their genes.

Even Spain considered joining the axis in 1942, but they did not

The results were close. If Roosevelt had respected Washington's precedent and stepped down after two terms and nominated Henry Wallace or Cordell Hull on his behalf, Wendell Willkie would have won.

He has a chance against any candidate who isn't Roosevelt

 

[ATP]

Even Spain considered joining the axis in 1942, but they did not

The results were close. If Roosevelt had respected Washington's precedent and stepped down after two terms and nominated Henry Wallace or Cordell Hull on his behalf, Wendell Willkie would have won.

He has a chance against any candidate who isn't Roosevelt

Especially the Spain.They had Gibraltar to retake.But,Canaris warned Franco that Hitler probably would lost,so Franco did notching.
If Canaris did the same in Turkey AFTER germans take Baku,they would not join.
But - if not,turks would go for it.And lost with Hitler,but keep loosing long enough that most of Central Europe would remain free.
Not Poland,unfortunatelly.

Well,commies was in control of USA media then and Hollywood/if you do not belive,watch ANY USA movie about soviets from that period/ ,so Democrat candidate would win no matter what.
Unless made something really stupid,like praising kolchoz just before elections or something like that.
But,since Democrats then had no Biden yet,it is improbable.

 

[ahmed ali]

Especially the Spain.They had Gibraltar to retake.But,Canaris warned Franco that Hitler probably would lost,so Franco did notching.
If Canaris did the same in Turkey AFTER germans take Baku,they would not join.
But - if not,turks would go for it.And lost with Hitler,but keep loosing long enough that most of Central Europe would remain free.
Not Poland,unfortunatelly.

Well,commies was in control of USA media then and Hollywood/if you do not belive,watch ANY USA movie about soviets from that period/ ,so Democrat candidate would win no matter what.
Unless made something really stupid,like praising kolchoz just before elections or something like that.
But,since Democrats then had no Biden yet,it is improbable.

This is just silly propaganda for McCarthy and his faction, and the people, not Hollywood, will elect the president
And Wendell Willkie is as charismatic as Roosevelt and Wendell Willkie supported Roosevelt in going to war

The person who will benefit the communists is Bob Taft with his isolationism

Even Henry Wallace has been accused of being a communist and he's not one so this is simply absurd

If Poland is occupied by the West, Stalin will not provoke a war against it, because the Allies fought for it, and he is not a fool, and guaranteeing the Baltics and eastern Poland is sufficient for him.

Simply tired of the Democrats is the reason for their illusion since 1932 in the presidency

Ismet Inonu will not trust the Germans because he simply fought alongside them twenty years ago and knew if it happened in the end, so no he would not join

 

[lordhen]

What if, after the 1940 Fall of France, Benito Mussolini goes to war with Switzerland over the Italian-majority Ticino Canton? Based on a population density map of Switzerland, Mussolini can argue that this canton doesn't really belong in Switzerland:

What would Adolf Hitler, the British, the US, and Vichy France do in response to such a war and how would this war itself have went?

We know how that will end, Switzerland will end up at the gates of Rome and Germany has to bail out Italy in order to prevent its defeat at the hands of the Swiss.

 

[ATP]

This is just silly propaganda for McCarthy and his faction, and the people, not Hollywood, will elect the president
And Wendell Willkie is as charismatic as Roosevelt and Wendell Willkie supported Roosevelt in going to war

The person who will benefit the communists is Bob Taft with his isolationism

Even Henry Wallace has been accused of being a communist and he's not one so this is simply absurd

If Poland is occupied by the West, Stalin will not provoke a war against it, because the Allies fought for it, and he is not a fool, and guaranteeing the Baltics and eastern Poland is sufficient for him.

Simply tired of the Democrats is the reason for their illusion since 1932 in the presidency

Ismet Inonu will not trust the Germans because he simply fought alongside them twenty years ago and knew if it happened in the end, so no he would not join

MCCarthy was rigfht about soviet agents ,thanks to Mitrochin archive we knew that now.
And people would belive what media said.If they said that genocider Sralin is saint who made WORKER PARADISE,they would buy it.

Henry Wallace visited soviet death camps in Magadan and lied about how people are happy there,so he was commie.

Poland would be not occupied,but LIBERATED.Soviet occupied us - that is why next free elections we had in 1991.
When in France,LIBERATED by USA,ruled parties choosed by french people.

And,why gave sralin Baltics and part of Poland? if he get only to Dniepr/germans could hold soviets there if Hitler had brain/
then sralin would be lucky to get anything past that river.

Ismet Inonu fought by german side,and remembered that they surrendered lastand try help Turkey as much as they could.
If he thought that germans would win after taking Baku,he would join.

If Wendel Willkie win,then USA lead by republicans would not waste money for lend-lease for soviets - only made more stuff like B.29 and made A bomb faster.
USA wasted for soviets 5 more time money then Manchattan project get.

Remove that,and WW2 would end with muschrooms over Germany in early 1945.And Poland,of course,would be free.
Only Democrats for unknown reason gave us to sralin for notching.And made soviets another world power.
Republicans would remain only world power,with Poland as ally.

We know how that will end, Switzerland will end up at the gates of Rome and Germany has to bail out Italy in order to prevent its defeat at the hands of the Swiss.

Yes,but what next? Germans would conqer Switzerland,but what about Africa? if Italy lost it before germans send Rommel there,we have 2 more tank dyvisions against soviets.
And,they would attack earlier.Part of Moscov would fall.In 1942 Baku and Stalingrad would fall.Turkey would join then.
Germans would still lost - but,more Europe would remain free.

 

[lordhen]

MCCarthy was rigfht about soviet agents ,thanks to Mitrochin archive we knew that now.
And people would belive what media said.If they said that genocider Sralin is saint who made WORKER PARADISE,they would buy it.

Henry Wallace visited soviet death camps in Magadan and lied about how people are happy there,so he was commie.

Poland would be not occupied,but LIBERATED.Soviet occupied us - that is why next free elections we had in 1991.
When in France,LIBERATED by USA,ruled parties choosed by french people.

And,why gave sralin Baltics and part of Poland? if he get only to Dniepr/germans could hold soviets there if Hitler had brain/
then sralin would be lucky to get anything past that river.

Ismet Inonu fought by german side,and remembered that they surrendered lastand try help Turkey as much as they could.
If he thought that germans would win after taking Baku,he would join.

If Wendel Willkie win,then USA lead by republicans would not waste money for lend-lease for soviets - only made more stuff like B.29 and made A bomb faster.
USA wasted for soviets 5 more time money then Manchattan project get.

Remove that,and WW2 would end with muschrooms over Germany in early 1945.And Poland,of course,would be free.
Only Democrats for unknown reason gave us to sralin for notching.And made soviets another world power.
Republicans would remain only world power,with Poland as ally.




Yes,but what next? Germans would conqer Switzerland,but what about Africa? if Italy lost it before germans send Rommel there,we have 2 more tank dyvisions against soviets.
And,they would attack earlier.Part of Moscov would fall.In 1942 Baku and Stalingrad would fall.Turkey would join then.
Germans would still lost - but,more Europe would remain free.

Also if this happens in 1940, then Italy will not invade Greece like OTL which as we now they almost lost until the Germans came to their rescue.

 

[ATP]

Also if this happens in 1940, then Italy will not invade Greece like OTL which as we now they almost lost until the Germans came to their rescue.

Of course,how could they invade Greece,when swiss would come to storm walls of Rome?

 

[lordhen]

Of course,how could they invade Greece,when swiss would come to storm walls of Rome?

Well we are talking about Benito Mussolini.

 

[ATP]

Well we are talking about Benito Mussolini.

True enough.He decide to invade Greece,when he could take Egypt after all/there was almost no british forces there in 1940/
If i were less lazy,i would made TL when he attack Egypt for real in 1940.