Babylon 5 A Fighting Chance --- A Babylon 5 AU

[Doomsought]

He could have done worse, like surrendered and then use that for a surprise attack.

 

[Chris O'Farrell]

Well played by Levy. Made the point that the Centuari are in the doghouse and the Narn, Drazi and Dilgar (especially the Narn) are all sliding up to Earth leaving them increasingly (and dangerously) isolated.

Also well anticipated by Londo, that Earth would be asking 'what exactly do we need you for when we're winning when you refused to help us when we were loosing?' And having an answer to the question of the kind of value needed and asking simply for the status quo in regards to Narn-Centuari relations. That Earth won't take sides in their little dispute... very well played. Although I'm sure the Minbari won't be happy when they find out about it. Although, given that House Fleets seem to be licking their lips and eyeing off the border worlds...

And Shakiri. Shakiri Shakiri Shakiri. Always jumps out of the Starfire wheel

Also good to see it starting to sink in for the Minbari that their little righteous crusade to exterminate humanity ... has turned into a genuine war for their own survival, with their own worlds about to start being invaded and sharks circling on their borders. So much so that its seemingly shifted enough opinion in the Grey Council that a negotiated peace is being seen as something to actively pursue. Although I'm pretty sure that at this point that the Grey Council will be in full Japan WWII mode and determined to save face. Demanding that the terms will be status quo on the borders, a formal apology from Earth for the death of their leader, some kind of reparations like Q40 (that the Minbari need to rebuild their fleet) and of course the extradition of the dickhead who started this for execution. And even then many hardliners thinking that this is still letting Earth off far too easily ...

David Sheridan is going to have his hands full I think trying to negotiate them down to something rather more reasnoble...

Looking forward to seeing Johnny going to play hell with the supply lines. A very good idea using explorer ships as mobile deep bases; with the new Drakh sensors they should be able to navigate Hyperspace damn near as well as the Minbari! Time to start taking Branmer to school about how REAL wars are fought

 

[Gyre]

Will it still take Sinclair getting the reaction from the tri-luminary to end this?
Someone is going to have to take the Council by the nose, and beat some sense into them. Perhaps it is Branmer.

 

[MrBirthday]

Some loose thoughts- First, what are the odds of this war beating the stupid out of the Warrior Caste? Second, I wonder if there will still be a Minbari Civil War in this timeline. Hopefully not. Third, I don't see that bastard Clark being able pull his shit anywhere near as much as in canon. Fourth, with Earth having the treaty relationship it does with both the Centuari and the Narn, it's a logical choice to play the role of mediator between the two. That might be the source of the Babylon project in this timeline, provided it's enacted like in canon.

 

[Spartan303]

Some loose thoughts- First, what are the odds of this war beating the stupid out of the Warrior Caste? Second, I wonder if there will still be a Minbari Civil War in this timeline. Hopefully not. Third, I don't see that bastard Clark being able pull his shit anywhere near as much as in canon. Fourth, with Earth having the treaty relationship it does with both the Centuari and the Narn, it's a logical choice to play the role of mediator between the two. That might be the source of the Babylon project in this timeline, provided it's enacted like in canon.

Clark isn't going to be taking power this time around. The Xenophobic backlash won't be there this time around. Infact I expect a lot of pro League sentiment. The formula for Clark to take power simply wont be there.

 

[MrBirthday]

Clark isn't going to be taking power this time around. The Xenophobic backlash won't be there this time around.

Yeah, I thought that, but didn't know if it was safe to discount the slimy bastard entirely. What did you think of my other thoughts?

 

[Ghostking 666]

As one the Dilgar fleet stretched forward, the lone dreadnought and several battleships ably supported by assorted frigates and destroyers. Prominent among them were the Sekhmet cruisers, once rarities among the fleet but today the backbone of the Navy. Each Dilgar ship was built from the best tech of the League forced together by Dilgar scientists. Hyach lasers, Abbai shields, Brakiri gravitic propulsion all supported by fighters derived from the best human and Cascan principles.

I suppose Brakiri graviton weapons just weren't competitive enough for the Dilgar to adopt, shame sense they are such a unique weapon amongst the younger races. And no Vree technology? I suppose it would be hard to acquire still intact samples considering how much they love antimatter.

“So it appears Warmaster.” Fiy'jash looked through the data. “Has anyone ever captured a Minbari ship before?”

Does the Vree finding the remains of a Valen-Shadow War era Minbari warfleet count? Cause that's how they got a bunch of their advanced technology(including their antimatter tech).

“The captured warships we'll divide among our four governments. I expect Earth will be greatly appreciative.”

“Our own scientists are going to drool on their uniforms.” Fiy'jash smiled at the thought. “If we can replicate Minbari armour...”

“And their Neutron weapons.” Dar'sen added. “Either way this is an excellent bounty. We will secure the ships, give the prisoners to Earth. Tell our Marines to be gracious about it but careful, some may not wish to surrender.”

That's something that will definitely change the balance of power, Drazi, Dilgar and Narn with Minbari technology oy.

“And our sensor tech keeps you in the game. Not just against the Minbari, I hear the Centauri have been experimenting in holographic manipulation. Starship scale chameleon nets, that sort of thing.” Levy noted. “That's the sort of thing this sensor tech could also interfere with.”

Is that an actual thing? Not their use of normal chameleon nets but starship scale ones? That's the first time I've ever heard of this.

“The location of every Minbari planet including their homeworld?” Londo remarked. “Which worlds have orbital defences, ship yards, logistics hubs. The location of restricted zones that are part of their military infrastructure, clan headquarters, their holding locations for mothballed ships? That sort of thing.”

I wonder what everyone's reactions to the Minbar defense grid would be, from what I remember Minbar is supposed to have the most expansive defense grid outside of a the homeworld of a First One race.

“Did he at least have the presence of mind to destroy our Jammer systems before he handed the ships over?”

“He did not.”

Useful, but not all that game changing with the proliferation of the sensor technology needed to break it, not unless everyone agree's to keep it out of the hands of those who don't currently have it in which case those races are pretty well fucked.

“They shouldn't have to!” Coplann snapped. “We are their defenders, does a parent seek the help of his children?”

See, this is the type of paternalistic crap that see's earth abandoned in the future after the Great Burn, and the people still living on the planet regressing into a pre-industrial state(with Anla'Shok infiltrators slowly "guiding" humanity back to the stars).

No they aren't your children, they were your allies from the last Shadow War. They are advanced, space faring races in their own right and are just as old as the Minbari. You treat them as your equals because they are, not like a bunch of primitives new to space that have never constructed their own starship before. Just because their populations got devastated doesn't make them lesser to you or lesser then they were before said genocide.

 

[Spartan303]

Yeah, I thought that, but didn't know if it was safe to discount the slimy bastard entirely. What did you think of my other thoughts?

True. But at the same time, Clark got as far as he did because Earth lost its confidence and was feeling a Xenophobic backlash. A direct response from the Minbari War. He built on that. Now though? Whole different ballgame.

 

[MrBirthday]

snip

So, no thoughts about this war beating the stupid out of the Warrior Caste, for example?

 

[Spartan303]

So, no thoughts about this war beating the stupid out of the Warrior Caste, for example?

I suspect with Naroon at the helm of the Warrior Caste, we'll see a far improved Warrior Caste that'll actually contribute something tremendous to the war with the Shadows.

 

[TimeDiver]

So, no thoughts about this war beating the stupid out of the Warrior Caste, for example?

Well, the Star Riders are at least open to learning (Neroon, Coplann(?) and Branmer's (adoptive?) clan).

The Wind Swords, though? Incapable of learning or adapting (at the highest levels). Might be extinct soon.

 

[mwkillkenny84]

*read the new chapter and the commentary* Why I have the feeling that Brammer will be temped to 'volunteer' Wind Swords and Star Riders forces (what they survived, at least) for 'glorious' missions... that would put them inside the meatgrinder that are the EA&Allies fleets?

 

[Culsu]

*read the new chapter and the commentary* Why I have the feeling that Brammer will be temped to 'volunteer' Wind Swords and Storm Riders forces (what they survived, at least) for 'glorious' missions... that would put them inside the meatgrinder that are the EA&Allies fleets?

As tempting as that may sound, it most likely goes against Branmer's character, and more importantaly, against his desire to conserve his forces. It's far more likely he'll crack down on a few of the remaining leaders to get the rest of the Warrior Caste in line. It's just not like him to throw away lives like that.

 

[mwkillkenny84]

As tempting as that may sound, it most likely goes against Branmer's character, and more importantaly, against his desire to conserve his forces. It's far more likely he'll crack down on a few of the remaining leaders to get the rest of the Warrior Caste in line. It's just not like him to throw away lives like that.

Counter: Wind Swords and Star Riders are also the more pro-War factions inside Minbari Society and the ones more likely than not to cause ruckuses in case a peace treaty was to be signed in any shape or form that was not of their satisfaction (so basically anything that did not declare that Minbari were Totally Not At Fault, that the EA deserved the War, and so on) up to the point of trying to 'impose' their "clearly reasonable ideas" to the rest of the populace.
Aka starting the canonical Minbari Civil War early.

Wind Swords and Star Riders are also the two forces more likely to disregard any battle order given by Brammer, Neroon and their ilk and continue to use the 'traditional' Minbari Battle Fleets tactics (that ITTL are obsolete and more likely than not even less successiful than the old kamikaze tactic was for the Imperial Japanese Navvy in WWII).

 

[Spartan303]

You guys mean Star Riders, right?

At any rate. Brammer can not afford such petty revenge. He's got his head on straight, unlike a lot of Minbari at this time. It's also against his character. He wouldn't do such a thing even if he could. He's trying to reform Warrior caste society, not burn it to ash under the guns of Earth Alliance Dreadnoughts.


Shakiri was technically operating within his mission parameters. Had he succeeded it would have been hard for Brammer to pull the leash on him. How lucky for us Shakiri sucks as a Commander.

 

[Shadow Knight]

Another great update. Lol, stupid Shakiri, a gift that keeps on giving. Getting intact Minbari warships is a bonanza. The Centauri must be feeling real bad about their decision to not back Earth.

Say we haven't heard from our favorite Gropo in a while. Last we heard he was jumping off in power armor.

Looking forward to seeing long this mess will continue before the Vorlons have to get involved.

 

[mwkillkenny84]

Shakiri was technically operating within his mission parameters. Had he succeeded it would have been hard for Brammer to pull the leash on him. How lucky for us Shakiri sucks as a Commander.

Not even succeeding, even with only swallowing his pride and retreating the instant he saw the combined fleets would have been a positive for Shakiri (that thus would not have opened at least three more fronts on the War with at least three more powers).

Sadly (for him) he is not the one in charge. His ego is.

Looking forward to seeing long this mess will continue before the Vorlons have to get involved.

Why should they? On one hand, the War has not gone as the data gathered from the Station/B4 should have informed them.

On the other hand, the combined fleets and alliances are proving their point of the Great Debate, preparing a new force for the next Shadow War, and teaching the Minbari the pecking order... sorry, humility and adaptability.

 

[walkir]

The three different fleets had never operated before, training had been scheduled but given how rapidly events had progressed it hadn't happened

operated together, I presume

wth obvious satisfaction G'Sten line dup his firing solutions, Shakiri woefully underestimating both the skill and

lined up

even look at his fellow warriors, their stares burning into him like torches. The gunfire ended, the enemy moving to deploy a corden around them. The Minbari fleet had never given up the fight

cordon

. The Minbari fleet had never given up the fight before, pride and honour would never permit it. Yet Shakiri simply did not want to die, and next to that he could live with the shame. At least he would still be alive to deal with

Asshat doesn't even have the decency to die. That has to sting the warriors more than anything else, even handing over the tech...

It is to our everlasting shame that we, th eLion of th eGalaxy, failed to be good friends to our human neighbours.

the Lion, the Galaxy

The could be at Nocalo within a week and it will only get worse.

They

“No, we can only slow them down. I have ordered our ship yards focus on producing light ships, frigates and corvettes, to raid human supply lines. These ships are still able to defeat larger Earth

to focus on

 

[MrBirthday]

I see that there is someone correcting typos in this, @walkir. (Something I've done for various fics I've read, but not something I always feel like doing.)

I suspect with Naroon at the helm of the Warrior Caste, we'll see a far improved Warrior Caste that'll actually contribute something tremendous to the war with the Shadows.

You know, that makes me wonder if some will look back at this timeline's Human-Minbari war and decide that while it may have been a tragedy, it was a tragedy with a purpose.

 

[Scarecrow]

Are the Shadows even going to kick things off in this timeline at all? The Minbari as a client species of the Vorlons, represent their philosophy right?

Thinking about it, the fact that the Minbari lost several massive fleet battles in a 1v1 against Earth is really damaging to that philosophy. That all Earth needed in order to beat back a race thats over one thousand years older than them is some sensor tech is frankly embarrassing.