Israel 🇮🇱 State of Israel Thread

[King Arts]

Also what the hell is it with your downright laser sighted obsession with the assumption that any "discrimination" obviously needs to be based on oh so loved by current year Americans concept of "race"? Both Jews and Arabs are Semitic peoples, they can't discriminate against each other on the basis of race, no more than Germans can be racist against Austrians, or Ukrainians can be racist against Czechs. If they do discriminate against each other, it has to be on the basis religion, culture or nationality. Stop being ridiculous for dramatic effect, it really hurts the credibility of all the other arguments you make.

What is with the stupid comments today first someone someone says Arabs and probably semites aren’t Caucasian, now Germans can’t discriminate against Austrians? They can that argument is like saying a German can’t be racist against Polish people because they are both part of the white group. You do realize that there are layers right. Yes black white yellow then in the white category there are three main European families Latin, Germanic, Slavic non European Caucasians are Indians and semites and even deeper for semites is jew and Arab. For Latin it would be French and Spanish. But even within one nation there are dialects for example a central French Parisian could dislike and oppress an Ocitian, or a Norman or a Gascon or you get the idea.

It is hilarious how you proclaim yourself not a leftist, and then proceed to barrage me with concerns and interpretations of rights overwhelmingly popular among leftists, then shifting to "stereotypical" far right talking points of people who really don't like Israel for a variety of other more or less weird reasons - reasons you probably can't even defend properly - for example, if Israel was regularly and still selling US military technology to US with no restrictions or anything, it surely would get yeeted so hard from the F-35 program that it would make Turkey look like it got off lightly.
I am, however, a nationalist, and as such, i can admire the Jew's stubborn and effective pursuit of establishment of their own nation-state.

Ok what did he say that’s left wing the only thing that slightly fits is asking about human rights. But being against Israeli policy on gays or abortion is not left wing. Also no even if Israel sells stuff we give them to China that does not mean our alliance would end. There are people who like Israel far more than America and they aren’t even Jews just traitors and cuckolds.

Also yes good on you for being a nationalist and good job to Israel on being a nationalist for its people. But someone who is a nationalist of a nation he is not part of is awfully close to being a cuckold supporting and doing what is best for that nation sacrificing for it when he isn’t part of it. Are you Israeli? I’m not so I am not a Israeli nationalist, I do not condemn them when they fight Hamas or Hezbollah or who ever, however I also don’t support them it’s not my fight and any American who does try to make it Americas fight is disloyal.

 

[Vaermina]

Yes, because killing civilians is a war crime

You might want to actually look up what does and does constitute a war crime.

Because the reality would surprise you.

Specifically that there are a lot of things which negate civilian protections.

Also, it's specifically that a country should try to MINIMIZE civilian causalities. Which surprisingly Israel does to a frankly insane degree compared to other military's.

 

[Zachowon]

You might want to actually look up what does and does constitute a war crime.

Because the reality would surprise you.

Specifically that there are a lot of things which negate civilian protections.

Also, it's specifically that a country should try to MINIMIZE civilian causalities. Which surprisingly Israel does to a frankly insane degree compared to other military's.

It goes into risk assessments. They want 0 percent but depending on what it is, a larger number may be attached

 

[Marduk]

What is with the stupid comments today first someone someone says Arabs and probably semites aren’t Caucasian, now Germans can’t discriminate against Austrians? They can that argument is like saying a German can’t be racist against Polish people because they are both part of the white group. You do realize that there are layers right. Yes black white yellow then in the white category there are three main European families Latin, Germanic, Slavic non European Caucasians are Indians and semites and even deeper for semites is jew and Arab. For Latin it would be French and Spanish. But even within one nation there are dialects for example a central French Parisian could dislike and oppress an Ocitian, or a Norman or a Gascon or you get the idea.

Then read the goddamn rest of the post. If they are discriminating on the basis of culture, or even dialect of language, then obviously its not discrimination on the basis of race, aka racism. Even with your different example of Slavic vs Germanic people its pretty much impossible to tell who belongs to which group biologically without genetic tests with most people, at least with any sort of reliability, and within groups, like Germanic to Germanic, or Slav to Slav, its plainly impossible. Technically people can discriminate against each other on the basis of wearing silly hats, but there is no reason to call it racism.

Ok what did he say that’s left wing the only thing that slightly fits is asking about human rights.

Also the focus on discrimination, insisting on calling all policies and forms of what is more accurately designated ethno-religious conflict "racist" (because that's the favorite line of conflict in current year USA), his go-to examples being SA and Jim Crow, and i could go on.

But being against Israeli policy on gays or abortion is not left wing. Also no even if Israel sells stuff we give them to China that does not mean our alliance would end. There are people who like Israel far more than America and they aren’t even Jews just traitors and cuckolds.

Half this stuff applies to certain states within USA no less than Israel. Its one thing if someone from the isolationist hard right throws the military aid issue, but for someone who a moment ago was going on about governments helping everyone, racism, and human rights, well that just doesn't fit.

Also yes good on you for being a nationalist and good job to Israel on being a nationalist for its people. But someone who is a nationalist of a nation he is not part of is awfully close to being a cuckold supporting and doing what is best for that nation sacrificing for it when he isn’t part of it. Are you Israeli? I’m not so I am not a Israeli nationalist, I do not condemn them when they fight Hamas or Hezbollah or who ever, however I also don’t support them it’s not my fight and any American who does try to make it Americas fight is disloyal.

I think for most here it is an internet fight at most.

 

[King Arts]

Then read the goddamn rest of the post. If they are discriminating on the basis of culture, or even dialect of language, then obviously its not discrimination on the basis of race, aka racism. Even with your different example of Slavic vs Germanic people its pretty much impossible to tell who belongs to which group biologically without genetic tests with most people, at least with any sort of reliability, and within groups, like Germanic to Germanic, or Slav to Slav, its plainly impossible. Technically people can discriminate against each other on the basis of wearing silly hats, but there is no reason to call it racism.

That’s such an American thing to say lol as if a Ukrainian and a Russian are the same. Anyway under this logic Hitler was not actually a racist, Jews fall under the semite category with Arabs and many of them are as white as snow many look no different than a German or Russian.

Also the focus on discrimination, insisting on calling all policies and forms of what is more accurately designated ethno-religious conflict "racist" (because that's the favorite line of conflict in current year USA), his go-to examples being SA and Jim Crow, and i could go on.

It could be he is ok with ethno states and apartheid it’s just that he sees a double standard where “white” ethno states that are not Jewish don’t get the same protection and support as Israel. I haven’t paid attention to history learners posts before this thread so I don’t know. Oh and people have used race and ethnicity interchangeably before you haven’t heard the term the German race?

Half this stuff applies to certain states within USA no less than Israel. Its one thing if someone from the isolationist hard right throws the military aid issue, but for someone who a moment ago was going on about governments helping everyone, racism, and human rights, well that just doesn't fit.

Yes there are US states that do things we dislike but here is the thing those states are part of America so we do have to support and defend them from attack(physical not moral condemnation) but Israel is a seperate nation. Many people here would not be happy if oh Chinese or Iranian expats made a lobby in the US to help influence politicians or groups of Americans to support their nation.

I think for most here it is an internet fight at most.

That’s ok I’m not referring to anyone here I’m just debating and bringing up groups like the evangelicals.

 

[Marduk]

That’s such an American thing to say lol as if a Ukrainian and a Russian are the same.

Where did i say they are the same?
I said they are impossible to tell apart on a biological level, even with a genetic test.
The only differences are in culture, language, religion, and other non biological characteristics.

It could be he is ok with ethno states and apartheid it’s just that he sees a double standard where “white” ethno states that are not Jewish don’t get the same protection and support as Israel.

Well, they should be. Though most of them aren't nearly as attacked, both in political and physical, rockets flying sense.

I haven’t paid attention to history learners posts before this thread so I don’t know. Oh and people have used race and ethnicity interchangeably before you haven’t heard the term the German race?

Some people use specific terms wrong, news at eleven.

Many people here would not be happy if oh Chinese or Iranian expats made a lobby in the US to help influence politicians or groups of Americans to support their nation.

Implying they didn't. They just keep a lower profile and have less of an antagonist faction as such.

That’s ok I’m not referring to anyone here I’m just debating and bringing up groups like the evangelicals.

If you refer to evanglicals, from what i know at least some faction of them has a well defined reason within their religion for it.

 

[GoldRanger]

LOL at comparing Israel to Apartheid South Africa and Jim Crow America when there are 2 Arab ministers in the current government. Where there democratically elected black ministers in those governments?

 

[King Arts]

LOL at comparing Israel to Apartheid South Africa and Jim Crow America when there are 2 Arab ministers in the current government. Where there democratically elected black ministers in those governments?

Ironically yes for America right after the civil war. Though the KKK, and democrats and gun laws very soon put an end to that. I’m not judging Israel but to claim that Arab citizens are not second class seems a bit like ignoring reality.

 

[GoldRanger]

Ironically yes for America right after the civil war. Though the KKK, and democrats and gun laws very soon put an end to that. I’m not judging Israel but to claim that Arab citizens are not second class seems a bit like ignoring reality.

In which ways are they second class citizens? What law discriminates against them?

 

[Simonbob]

The thing that seperates races is not skin color but actually structural differences. Blacks have different skull structures to Asians, and Asians have different skull structures to Caucasian. If there is a skeleton you can’t tell what nation it comes from aka German or French but if you know what to look for you can see the difference between a white and a black without relying on skin color. And Indians even though they are culturally linked to Asians their skull structure matches white peoples. Yes even if they have dark skin.

Huh.

I've never seen that theory in detail before. I just looked it up, today.

I've seen some stupid stuff before, but that takes the cake. Yeah, that's not something I can see as having any real validity. The enviromental and cultural pressures of Arabs being somehow the same as those that make the people of Greenland? Some people are just weird.


Ethnicity is what I care about, than that's much more local.




This is also turning into a massive derail. Leave it for now, and I'll put together my full opinion on this stuff. I'll post it in the Uni.

 

[ATP]

Since it is named as Israel - Israel state was destroyed by Assyrians,and its people taken by them,and become "10 lost tribes"
All jews now are suppose to be descentents of Judea state and its 2 tribes.
Well,in reality people of Israel survived,become pagans,christians and now muslims - and,biologically,palestinians are descendents pf Israel people.The same goes for many muslims from Iraq.

Anyway,it should be Judea thread,not Israel.

P.S historian Shomo Sand proved,that jews as nation was invented in 19th century./The invention of jewish people/.
Before that,it was only religion.Fun thing - Israel 2.0 state is officially secular,but use the same criteria to decide who is jew as judaism.

 

[GoldRanger]

For everyone thinking that removing the settlements will do anything to resolve the conflict instead of only making it worse (like happened in Gaza):

 

[King Arts]

For everyone thinking that removing the settlements will do anything to resolve the conflict instead of only making it worse (like happened in Gaza):

Maybe the easiest thing for Israel to do is to make a buffer state, that will keep the Palestinians away from them. I know it's not realistic, but if it was somehow made, do you think that would be helpful to Israel?

 

[Captain X]

I don't think it would, because the issue at heart for them is simply that Israel exists or even just that Jews exist. There have been repeated attempts at such solutions and the Palestinians simply turn them down.

 

[LordsFire]

Maybe the easiest thing for Israel to do is to make a buffer state, that will keep the Palestinians away from them. I know it's not realistic, but if it was somehow made, do you think that would be helpful to Israel?

Israel literally does not have the territory to create a buffer state. It's already barely more than a city-state.

 

[Marduk]

Nevermind territory, what kind of people would live there, defend it, pay for it, while maintaining some mutually agreeable pretense of neutrality?

 

[King Arts]

I don't think it would, because the issue at heart for them is simply that Israel exists or even just that Jews exist. There have been repeated attempts at such solutions and the Palestinians simply turn them down.

I don’t think you understand for a buffer state Israel would not need the permission of Palestinians. It would just be a group, that is a human shield for the Israel. And please don’t talk in hyperbole. No the Arab nations don’t have a hate against a hypothetical Jewish state they hate Israel due to its location it being right next to them and controlling Jerusalem. If after ww2 a Jewish state was made in Europe carving out part of Germany for example Arabs and Palestinians would not travel to another continent to fight it.

Israel literally does not have the territory to create a buffer state. It's already barely more than a city-state.

Israel is not a big country but don’t go making statements like oh it’s so small and weak. Israel has many cities in its borders. Tel Aviv, Ascalon, a Jerusalem. That’s three that’s much bigger than a city state lol.

Nevermind territory, what kind of people would live there, defend it, pay for it, while maintaining some mutually agreeable pretense of neutrality?

Yes that’s why I said IF it was possible. Israel is in a similar situation to Rome in a way ironic. There is pressure to expand in self defense. See the Palestinians like the Barbarians are attacking and raiding the edges of the nation they aren’t a real threat but are annoying and the border needs to be expanded so they can’t go attacked important civilians stuff inland. But eventually the borders get civilian infrastructure built up which then is in danger because Palestinians attack the military border outpost and then the civilian infrastructure is in danger .

 

[Marduk]

Yes that’s why I said IF it was possible. Israel is in a similar situation to Rome in a way ironic. There is pressure to expand in self defense. See the Palestinians like the Barbarians are attacking and raiding the edges of the nation they aren’t a real threat but are annoying and the border needs to be expanded so they can’t go attacked important civilians stuff inland. But eventually the borders get civilian infrastructure built up which then is in danger because Palestinians attack the military border outpost and then the civilian infrastructure is in danger .

No, its considerably different. Israel just simple doesn't have an "inland", only a bunch of edges.
A certain modern warfare innovation that is commonly used in the area is kinda geographically warping the issue vs the Rome situation.

This is a 122mm Grad rocket. It's 60's tech, its simple, its cheap, a whole lot of countries make all sorts of variants of it. It's also a fairly common and representative of average destructiveness and range of the kind of artillery Palestinians use for terror attacks on Israel.
Depending on the variant, current ones tend to have a maximum range of 20 to 45 kilometers, 30 being one of more common.

Now, to understand the problem, you need a map.
For example, this population density map:

Why this one? It has a nice bar to scale 30km off down there.
Now what you need to do is draw a circle of a radius equivalent to 30km. Then copy it, and paste lots and lots of copies of it, with their centers places around the edges of Palestinian territories. Then look at which parts of Israel are covered by your circles.

 

[49ersfootball]

I see Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett met with President Biden at the White House.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

I see Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett met with President Biden at the White House.

I bet that was an interesting meeting...