Israel 🇮🇱 State of Israel Thread

[Marduk]

Yes the place with the oldest community of christians in the world is giving lip service to it.

By what magic does that make it the only one to be assumed as immune to ideological changes and subversions?
If they weren't cucked they would take any other realistic option over being ruled by Muslims, islamist ones at that. Though they may be more intimidated by them (Israel won't outright murderize them for cucking to the other side, islamists absolutely will do it for even lesser offenses) than just cucked.

No you just use liberation theology as a smoke screen whenever Christian’s call out shit on the establishment right.

This is not "calling out establishment right" This is 1:1 copying of marxist revolutionary arguments, i don't care if you spin it against the establishment right or not, after all they hate the establishment right (and left) too. You hate them for not being right enough, they, for not being left enough, so be careful about where you left "sticking it to the establishment" take you.

It’s just like the Russians yelling Nazi in Ukraine it’s a smokescreen that you don’t even have proof of.

I treat Russians yelling Nazi in Ukraine exactly the same way i treat Antifa yelling Nazi in Portland. Go read the dozens of pages of posting in the relevant threads for "proof" which you probably won't accept anyway because it goes against your pre-assumed worldview.

First of all non every Christian in Palestine/Israel is Catholic there is a decent orthodox community and a few others. Liberation theology is a Catholic heresy supposedly. And also communism isn’t even a popular ideology in that part of the world Islamist are and Christians are obviously not Islamists.

Read their bloody description. They aren't hiding their socialist bent. Liberation theology obviously is not Catholicism, that's why it is heresy, that kind of thinking obviously got into Catholicism from the outside, particularly people and organizations with marxist influences.
Many protestant churches follow the same ideas without Catholic hierarchy more or less half heartedly holding them back (see: all the homo and transgender bishops in certain places, obviously those also don't praise capitalism and shill for neocons, guess what ideas do they have).

Oh and kinda westerners? What? Who gives a shit why should I favor the Jew over the Muslim? Neither is a coreligionist you even told me you yourself are not religious you just use this to further your own goals you don’t care about faith you just support neocons and their goals. Neocons support Israel then you do as well.

I don't give a shit what neocons think.
What did Israel do to you that you simp for islamist leaning Arabs over them?
You are extremely fringe with your obsession about religion over nationality (i'm talking less than 1% of population to put it lightly), and letting it completely twist your understanding of very complicated geopolitical and civilizational conflicts into a pretzel. Who gives a shit, other things matter to most people more.

 

[King Arts]

By what magic does that make it the only one to be assumed as immune to ideological changes and subversions?
If they weren't cucked they would take any other realistic option over being ruled by Muslims, islamist ones at that. Though they may be more intimidated by them (Israel won't outright murderize them for cucking to the other side, islamists absolutely will do it for even lesser offenses) than just cucked.

Do you have any proof of large scale communist infiltration?

Also it's funny you bring up cucking. Islamists are bad yes, but Palestinian Christians are Palestinian wouldn't the bigger cuck move be for them to simp to people not of just a different religion(Muslim Palestinians are still Palestinians) but to cuck to the Israelis? After all they are Jewish and a completely different ethnicity, in your view of only ethnicity matters why should they not prefer people of their own ethnicity? Why is Islam worse than Judaism? They are both bad.

This is not "calling out establishment right" This is 1:1 copying of marxist revolutionary arguments, i don't care if you spin it against the establishment or not.

Please post right here the proof first that there is a marxist group, and second that it is prominent among Palestinian Christians.

I treat Russians yelling Nazi in Ukraine exactly the same way i treat Antifa yelling Nazi in Portland. Go read the dozens of pages of posting in the relevant threads for "proof" which you probably won't accept anyway because it goes against your pre-assumed worldview.

No you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm saying that when you scream "liberation theology" Without proof that these people are marxists it's just like Russia screaming "Nazi!" so they can dismiss the other person of being bad without actual proof. Again you can't define liberation theology as Christians caring for the poor and oppressed and calling out the selfish rich, and oppressors for bad acts.

Read their bloody description. They aren't hiding their socialist bent. Liberation theology obviously is not Catholicism, that's why it is heresy, that kind of thinking obviously got into Catholicism from the outside, particularly people and organizations with marxist influences.
Many protestant churches follow the same ideas without Catholic hierarchy more or less half heartedly holding them back (see: all the homo and transgender bishops in certain places, obviously those also don't praise capitalism and shill for neocons, guess what ideas do they have).

I got linked a whole wikipedia article man. Link the article and then post what specefically you want me to read in quotes: I'll give an example here is why I think Israel isn't 100% the good guy.

Palestinian Christians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In a 2007 letter from Congressman Henry Hyde to President George W. Bush, Hyde stated that "the Christian community is being crushed in the mill of the bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict" and that expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, were "irreversibly damaging the dwindling Christian community".[37][38]

In November 2009, Berlanty Azzam, a Palestinian Christian student from Gaza, was expelled from Bethlehem and was not allowed to continue her studying. She had two months left for the completion of her degree. Berlanty Azzam said the Israeli military handcuffed her, blindfolded her, and left her waiting for hours at a checkpoint on her way back from a job interview in Ramallah. She described the incident as "frightening" and claimed Israeli official treated her like a criminal and denied her an education because she is a Palestinian Christian from Gaza.[39]

In July 2014, during operation Protective Edge an Israeli-Arab Christian demonstration was held in Haifa in a protest against Muslim extremism in the Middle East (concerning the rise of the Islamic State) and in support of Israel and the IDF.[40]

Christian Arabs are one of the most educated groups in Israel.[41][42] Statistically, Christian Arabs in Israel have the highest rates of educational attainment among all religious communities, according to a data by Israel Central Bureau of Statistics in 2010, 63% of Israeli Christian Arabs have had college or postgraduate education, the highest of any religious and ethno-religious group.[43] Despite the fact that Arab Christians only represent 2.1% of the total Israeli population, in 2014 they accounted for 17.0% of the country's university students, and for 14.4% of its college students.[44] There are more Christians who have attained a bachelor's degree or higher academic degrees than the median Israeli population. Also Christian Arabs have one of the highest rates of success in the matriculation examinations, (73.9%) in 2017[45][46] both in comparison to the Muslims and the Druze and in comparison to all students in the Jewish education system as a group.[47] Arab Christians were also the vanguard in terms of eligibility for higher education,[47] and they have attained a bachelor's degree and academic degree more than the median Israeli population.[47] Christians schools in Israel went on strike in 2015 at the beginning of the 2015 academic year in protest at budget cuts aimed at them. The strike affected 33,000 pupils, 40 percent of them Muslim. In 2013, Israel covered 65% of the budget of Palestinian Christian schools in Israel, a figure cut that year to 34%. Christians say they now received a third of what Jewish schools receive, with a shortfall of $53 million.[48]

I'm simply saying that Israel is not this perfect angel that has no racism towards anyone and is only the victim of racism by others. No Israel does do bad acts, they do have racists inside their nation that dislike anyone thats not a Jew. I'm ok with Israel existing, hell I can tolerate them owning the holy land, as long as they allow Christian pilgrims to visit, and don't oppress the local Christians.

I don't give a shit what neocons think.
What did Israel do to you that you simp for islamist leaning Arabs over them?
You are extremely fringe with your obsession about religion over nationality (i'm talking less than 1% of population to put it lightly), and letting it completely twist your understanding of very complicated geopolitical and civilizational conflicts into a pretzel. Who gives a shit, other things matter to most people more.

I don't simp for the Islamists Palestinians, I said it above. The reason I called you a simp for the neocons is because on pretty much everything you are agreeing with them. I can understand you being aggressive towards Russia you are Polish and have history with them it's understandable I don't begrudge that. But when you agree with them on policies towards containing China, or how to handle the middle east, I start to roll my eyes and have to ask is there any place you disagree with them?

 

[Marduk]

Do you have any proof of large scale communist infiltration?

Also it's funny you bring up cucking. Islamists are bad yes, but Palestinian Christians are Palestinian wouldn't the bigger cuck move be for them to simp to people not of just a different religion(Muslim Palestinians are still Palestinians) but to cuck to the Israelis? After all they are Jewish and a completely different ethnicity, in your view of only ethnicity matters why should they not prefer people of their own ethnicity? Why is Islam worse than Judaism? They are both bad.

Please post right here the proof first that there is a marxist group, and second that it is prominent among Palestinian Christians.

Yeah, an organization puts the term "liberation" in its name and talks about inclusiveness in its mission statement, calls everything they don't like apartheid, and is sometimes teaming up with DSA, and you ask if there is any proof of communist infiltration
Are you some kind of opposite world McCarthy? Do you recognize communist influence only once it smacks you in the face with the stock of a Kalashnikov or is even that not conclusive enough for ya?

>just different religion
You of all people, actually caring about religion, i didn't expect to say something so crazy.
Just a border away, Syrians are murderizing each other in part over being "just a different sect of the same religion" while being the same nation. In many nearby countries, Christians are being treated like crap by the same "nation", "just a different religion".
Hell, the Christians in Palestine do admit that the "just a different religion" Palestinians treat them like crap, of course only those outside of their armed hand's reach.

It's one thing if the Islam in question was something like Indonesia or Turkey, you may have had an argument then, but the prevailing brand of Islam in Palestine? They aren't both bad, Islam there is its own league of bad that's hard to compare with any other religion currently in existence.

Persecution of Christians 'coming close to genocide' in Middle East – report

Millions uprooted from homes, says UK-commissioned report, with many jailed and killed

www.theguardian.com

Who do you think is doing enough of that for bloody Guardian of all things to write about it?
Does Israel run the rest of Middle East though? Or are you implying that the Palestinain islamists are uniquely nice to Christians as opposed to all the other islamists all over the Middle East?

Here's how Israelis describe the Palestinian Muslim-Christian relations:

Palestinian Crimes against Christian Arabs and Their Manipulation against Israel

Under the Palestinian regime Christian Arabs have been victims of frequent human rights abuses by Muslims. Palestinian Authority officials are directly responsible for many of the human rights violations. Yet for political and economic reasons many Palestinian Christian leaders blame Israel for...

jcpa.org

And here are some quotes of the Christians themselves:

Gaza Christians long for days before Hamas cancelled Christmas

Since the Palestinian Authority left the Gaza Strip, festive celebrations and displays of crucifixes have become taboo

www.theguardian.com

Imad Jelda is an Orthodox Christian who runs a youth training centre in Gaza City. With unemployment hovering at 23%, he has seen young Christian men leave to study and work abroad in their droves. "People here do not celebrate Christmas anymore because they are nervous," Jelda said. "The youth in particular have a fear inside themselves."

Karam Qubrsi, 23, and his younger brother Peter, 21, are the eldest sons in one of Gaza's 55 remaining Catholic families. Both wear prominent wooden crucifixes. "Jesus tells me, 'if you can't carry my cross, you don't belong to me,'" Peter explained. It's a demonstration of faith that has caused him some trouble.

He describes being stopped in the street by a Hamas official who told him to remove the cross. "I told him it's not his business and that I wouldn't," Peter said. After being threatened with arrest he was eventually let go, but the incident scared him.

I'm simply saying that Israel is not this perfect angel that has no racism towards anyone and is only the victim of racism by others. No Israel does do bad acts, they do have racists inside their nation that dislike anyone thats not a Jew. I'm ok with Israel existing, hell I can tolerate them owning the holy land, as long as they allow Christian pilgrims to visit, and don't oppress the local Christians.

We're not cultural marxists here, we don't obsess about racist this racist that in our circles, i hope at least. Israel is a pretty harsh country formed by hard times and act accordingly, none of the overly nice current year western shit. We don't have to like them, they don't have to like us likewise. However for practical purposes they are still a part of the western civlization, even if a peripheral one, and the other guys clearly aren't, and so i take my side accordingly.

I don't simp for the Islamists Palestinians, I said it above. The reason I called you a simp for the neocons is because on pretty much everything you are agreeing with them. I can understand you being aggressive towards Russia you are Polish and have history with them it's understandable I don't begrudge that. But when you agree with them on policies towards containing China, or how to handle the middle east, I start to roll my eyes and have to ask is there any place you disagree with them?

China is run by a literal communist party, this has some obvious connotations around here, that's why in fact some places very close to Poland are most hostile to them out of all EU, even more than Poland.
As for Middle East, well, since when were countries of my whole region huge fans of being soft on Muslims anywhere in general?
These are tendencies older than the very idea of neocons.

Where do i disagree with them? For example they have utterly fucked up the Afghanistan intervention. But not in the way leftists, pacifists, islamists and other scum usually criticize it.
There should have been no attempt of nation building, that was cucking to the chattering classes of the bleeding heart liberal and leftist kinds and also an opportunity for various grifters, in turn creating a mess with no purpose that was costly to keep and hard to leave. It should have been a short and bloody intervention, to be ended as soon as anyone even remotely associated with AQ in Afghanistan was deemed very, very dead, finalized with a promise to come back again if whoever ends up in charge next decides to make similar mistakes.

Likewise, Iraq. If it was worth it at all, without splitting it, not worth it really, Saddam was a mess, but the replacement, well, we will see, but so far it's not looking worthwhile.

 

[ATP]

That would be a horrifically bad idea.

The Palastinians have proven time and time again to be bad faith actors of the highest degree fucking over their Egyptian, Jordanian and other sponsors. They have frequently broken deals and when given the chance for self government either turn their areas into incredibly corrupt even by middle eastern standards kleptocracies that steal aid money to benifit themselves or full on terrorist states.

Any other government in world history would have either expelled them in mass or genocided them by now for the shit they pull on a regular basis. Historical Poland didn't put up with this shit there would have been heads on pikes for the shit the Palastinans have pulled.

There is a reason why everyone else in the middle east cant fucking stand them.

Poland actually pull up with this kind of shit.In 1920 jews welcomed soviets - we did notching.
In 1939 they welcomed soviets again and made deal with germans.
When germans start genociding them,we helped as much as we could.
After 1945 jews co-ruled polish soviet colony with soviets till 1968,when they still remain part of ruling elites,but with less power.

And,after 1989 we still did notching,even when jews blamed us for german crimes.

And,back to topic - i do not care about fake semites there,but if jews have right to blown up palestinians homes,palestinians could blow up jewish homes,too.

 

[Cherico]

Poland actually pull up with this kind of shit.In 1920 jews welcomed soviets - we did notching.
In 1939 they welcomed soviets again and made deal with germans.
When germans start genociding them,we helped as much as we could.
After 1945 jews co-ruled polish soviet colony with soviets till 1968,when they still remain part of ruling elites,but with less power.

And,after 1989 we still did notching,even when jews blamed us for german crimes.

And,back to topic - i do not care about fake semites there,but if jews have right to blown up palestinians homes,palestinians could blow up jewish homes,too.

they have frequently attempted to blow up jewish homes Iron dome was created because of frequent rocket attacks.

 

[ATP]

they have frequently attempted to blow up jewish homes Iron dome was created because of frequent rocket attacks.

Indeed.But who started it? It belonged to palestinians first.
But,i agree that average arab dictator would be more cruel.Problem is - Izrael need USA moneys to exist,and they would not get any if they genocide palestinians.

 

[Marduk]

Indeed.But who started it? It belonged to palestinians first.
But,i agree that average arab dictator would be more cruel.Problem is - Izrael need USA moneys to exist,and they would not get any if they genocide palestinians.

>first
History is longer than 1200 years you know. Obviously Jews belong in a place called like Judea, it's bloody named after them.

 

[Morphic Tide]

It belonged to palestinians first.

In living memory, soverignty over the region has been held only by the British and Ottoman Empires, and the Israeli government that the British formed. The two-state solution was denied by a war of extermination declared by every neighboring Muslim country the day after Israel became a state.

It is very barely in living memory that "Palestinians" were the private owners of SOME of the then-marginal land that Israel has improved massively, and most either sold it or abandoned it to retreat with the invaders.

The latter settlements intruding on "Palestine" follow a similar trend, nobody's using it for anything of importance, then Israelis move in and do great things, and only once the Israelis have developed the infrastructure do the Palestinians try to tear it down.

 

[ATP]

>first
History is longer than 1200 years you know. Obviously Jews belong in a place called like Judea, it's bloody named after them.

Of course.But,thanks to DNA we knew that the same population lived there from bronze age till 1948.They changed religions and at some point were named as jews,but now are muslims.

In living memory, soverignty over the region has been held only by the British and Ottoman Empires, and the Israeli government that the British formed. The two-state solution was denied by a war of extermination declared by every neighboring Muslim country the day after Israel became a state.

It is very barely in living memory that "Palestinians" were the private owners of SOME of the then-marginal land that Israel has improved massively, and most either sold it or abandoned it to retreat with the invaders.

The latter settlements intruding on "Palestine" follow a similar trend, nobody's using it for anything of importance, then Israelis move in and do great things, and only once the Israelis have developed the infrastructure do the Palestinians try to tear it down.

1.If that was true,Izrael would cease to exist.Saudi arabia and Egypt send few soldiers and did notching,Syrians fought Iraq almost as much as Izrael,and Jordania actually helped jews.

2.They retreated when jews genocided one village.And,according to that logic,jews in Central Europe lost right to their property,too.

3.They do not develpoed anything,becouse they were bombed.According to your logic,jews from german gettos should made miracles during WW2.

 

[Marduk]

Of course.But,thanks to DNA we knew that the same population lived there from bronze age till 1948.They changed religions and at some point were named as jews,but now are muslims.

It's total bullshit and such DNA studies prove only that Jews and Arabs both come from Middle East.

3.They do not develpoed anything,becouse they were bombed.According to your logic,jews from german gettos should made miracles during WW2.

Stop simping for Arabs, you should know better. Most of Arab countries didn't get bombed yet those without mad oil money developed shitholes too, some even poorer than the bombed and war torn Palestine, hilariously enough.

 

[Morphic Tide]

1.If that was true,Izrael would cease to exist.Saudi arabia and Egypt send few soldiers and did notching,Syrians fought Iraq almost as much as Izrael,and Jordania actually helped jews.

That there was enormous inefficiency is a famous fact of Middle Eastern militaries to this day, it does not change the fact that the war declaration came at quite literally the soonest possible opportunity. The Muslim world promptly decided to remove the Jew, the Jew fought back, and the Jew won. Israel took quite a bit of land from these removal attempts, and gave it back trying to buy lasting peace.

2.They retreated when jews genocided one village.And,according to that logic,jews in Central Europe lost right to their property,too.

The relevant comparison would be specifically the Jews who sided with the Germans or Soviets when Poland was invaded, then bounced as the tide turned the other way, fleeing expected persecution rather than present. Unlike the Polish case, the Palestinian's concerns proved unfounded, as the ones who didn't outright follow the invaders away did not face waves of confiscation like the modern Palestinians treat the claiming of land as.

3.They do not develpoed anything,becouse they were bombed.According to your logic,jews from german gettos should made miracles during WW2.

No, the Palestinians did not develop anything because the area was generally poor for local methods, just like the local Jews developed little. It was highly motivated European Jews with foreign wealth, connections, and education moving to the area to advance the Zionist movement doing the initial pre-Israel wave of improvements on land purchased from the locals, and the descendants or students of such continuing it today. Some of the modern ones are Muslim Arabs, in fact.

 

[Sergeant Foley]

That there was enormous inefficiency is a famous fact of Middle Eastern militaries to this day, it does not change the fact that the war declaration came at quite literally the soonest possible opportunity. The Muslim world promptly decided to remove the Jew, the Jew fought back, and the Jew won. Israel took quite a bit of land from these removal attempts, and gave it back trying to buy lasting peace.


The relevant comparison would be specifically the Jews who sided with the Germans or Soviets when Poland was invaded, then bounced as the tide turned the other way, fleeing expected persecution rather than present. Unlike the Polish case, the Palestinian's concerns proved unfounded, as the ones who didn't outright follow the invaders away did not face waves of confiscation like the modern Palestinians treat the claiming of land as.


No, the Palestinians did not develop anything because the area was generally poor for local methods, just like the local Jews developed little. It was highly motivated European Jews with foreign wealth, connections, and education moving to the area to advance the Zionist movement doing the initial pre-Israel wave of improvements on land purchased from the locals, and the descendants or students of such continuing it today. Some of the modern ones are Muslim Arabs, in fact.

This conversation has escalated aggressively I see

 

[49ersfootball]

@Husky_Khan @Airedale260 @Carrot of Truth @Circle of Willis @TheRomanSlayer @Zyobot @Aaron Fox @DarthOne @f1onagher @stevep
Emily Schrader was on Sky News Australia recently.

​

 

[King Arts]

Yeah, an organization puts the term "liberation" in its name and talks about inclusiveness in its mission statement, calls everything they don't like apartheid, and is sometimes teaming up with DSA, and you ask if there is any proof of communist infiltration
Are you some kind of opposite world McCarthy? Do you recognize communist influence only once it smacks you in the face with the stock of a Kalashnikov or is even that not conclusive enough for ya?

Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, this completely slipped my mind.

Anyway Many organization use the term liberation when they are fighting wars for independence. I mean the Americans in their revolution talked about liberty and had a group called the sons of liberty. Also I was talking about Palestinian/Arab Christians in general not a group in particular. So even if you show that there is some Christian heretic group that do subscribe to liberation theology that proves nothing unless you can show that most Arab Christians in the area are part of it and believe in that.

>just different religion
You of all people, actually caring about religion, i didn't expect to say something so crazy.
Just a border away, Syrians are murderizing each other in part over being "just a different sect of the same religion" while being the same nation. In many nearby countries, Christians are being treated like crap by the same "nation", "just a different religion".
Hell, the Christians in Palestine do admit that the "just a different religion" Palestinians treat them like crap, of course only those outside of their armed hand's reach.

It's one thing if the Islam in question was something like Indonesia or Turkey, you may have had an argument then, but the prevailing brand of Islam in Palestine? They aren't both bad, Islam there is its own league of bad that's hard to compare with any other religion currently in existence.

I brought up the just a different religion thing because you were the one that said it doesen't matter at all I was kinda being sarcastic. I do seperate Arab Christians from Arab muslims.

Who do you think is doing enough of that for bloody Guardian of all things to write about it?
Does Israel run the rest of Middle East though? Or are you implying that the Palestinain islamists are uniquely nice to Christians as opposed to all the other islamists all over the Middle East?

Here's how Israelis describe the Palestinian Muslim-Christian relations:

Yes I acknowledge that the Palestinian Muslims oppress Palestinian Christians. Is this some sort of gotcha? I said both the muslims and Jews oppress the Christians.

We're not cultural marxists here, we don't obsess about racist this racist that in our circles, i hope at least. Israel is a pretty harsh country formed by hard times and act accordingly, none of the overly nice current year western shit. We don't have to like them, they don't have to like us likewise. However for practical purposes they are still a part of the western civlization, even if a peripheral one, and the other guys clearly aren't, and so i take my side accordingly.

We aren't cultural marxists but no one likes to be seen as a lesser or 2nd class citizen. And if it's part of my group aka Christians then it's wrong. So when Jews do price tag attacks, or Hasedics vandalise Chruch's yes I won't go "Israel is our greatest friend we give them a free hand in the middle east and support their every action. Durr.

I simply treat them as any other nation.

But I do have a question in what way is Israel a western nation? Why is it a western nation but Islamic states like Egypt or Turkey aren't? I don't understand your logic. I can understand what ATP would say he would say western culture is a mix of Roman law/descent as well as Christianity. Neither Egypt or Turkey, or Israel have that Christian component. So why is one Western and the other not, you do no Judaism is closer to Islam then to Christianity right?

China is run by a literal communist party, this has some obvious connotations around here, that's why in fact some places very close to Poland are most hostile to them out of all EU, even more than Poland.
As for Middle East, well, since when were countries of my whole region huge fans of being soft on Muslims anywhere in general?
These are tendencies older than the very idea of neocons.

Where do i disagree with them? For example they have utterly fucked up the Afghanistan intervention. But not in the way leftists, pacifists, islamists and other scum usually criticize it.
There should have been no attempt of nation building, that was cucking to the chattering classes of the bleeding heart liberal and leftist kinds and also an opportunity for various grifters, in turn creating a mess with no purpose that was costly to keep and hard to leave. It should have been a short and bloody intervention, to be ended as soon as anyone even remotely associated with AQ in Afghanistan was deemed very, very dead, finalized with a promise to come back again if whoever ends up in charge next decides to make similar mistakes.

Likewise, Iraq. If it was worth it at all, without splitting it, not worth it really, Saddam was a mess, but the replacement, well, we will see, but so far it's not looking worthwhile.

This at least I can agree with.

 

[Marduk]

Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, this completely slipped my mind.

Anyway Many organization use the term liberation when they are fighting wars for independence. I mean the Americans in their revolution talked about liberty and had a group called the sons of liberty. Also I was talking about Palestinian/Arab Christians in general not a group in particular. So even if you show that there is some Christian heretic group that do subscribe to liberation theology that proves nothing unless you can show that most Arab Christians in the area are part of it and believe in that.

I see you didn't read enough Yuri Bezmenov.
Political movements putting the term "liberation" in their name should ring your alarm bells, it's not something they do by accident, it's a very specific term to use for an independence movement.

bezmenov.net - bezmenov Resources and Information.

bezmenov.net is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, bezmenov.net has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

bezmenov.net

This is a huge school under the direct control of the KGB and Central Committee where future leaders of the so-called "national liberation movements" are being educated and selected carefully. And some of them have absolutely, they neither… This, for example, is a group of students from Lumumba [Fig. 15]. They don't look like students at all. They look more like military, and that's exactly what they were. They were dispatched back to their countries to be leaders of the so-called "national liberation movements" or, to be translated into normal human language, leaders of international terrorist groups. Another area of activity when I was working for the Novosti was to accompany groups of so-called progressive intellectuals, writers, journalists, publishers, teachers, professors of colleges.

Can you guess who uses this particular term?

National liberation (Marxism) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

National liberation has been promoted by Marxists out of an international-socialist perspective rather than a bourgeois nationalist perspective.

It may sound similar, but confusing this is a huge mistake.

I brought up the just a different religion thing because you were the one that said it doesen't matter at all I was kinda being sarcastic. I do seperate Arab Christians from Arab muslims.


Yes I acknowledge that the Palestinian Muslims oppress Palestinian Christians. Is this some sort of gotcha? I said both the muslims and Jews oppress the Christians.

And in very different scale...

We aren't cultural marxists but no one likes to be seen as a lesser or 2nd class citizen. And if it's part of my group aka Christians then it's wrong. So when Jews do price tag attacks, or Hasedics vandalise Chruch's yes I won't go "Israel is our greatest friend we give them a free hand in the middle east and support their every action. Durr.

Hasidics are kinda controversial among the Israelis already for this and many other reasons, it's a separate issue. It's nothing comparable to the situation with local Muslims though.
Just because they are threatened to act as a dhimmi auxiliary to the Palestinian cause out of fear of what the rest of Palestinians would do to them if they refused doesn't mean you should join them in this act out of sympathy, that would be silly.

I simply treat them as any other nation.

But I do have a question in what way is Israel a western nation? Why is it a western nation but Islamic states like Egypt or Turkey aren't? I don't understand your logic. I can understand what ATP would say he would say western culture is a mix of Roman law/descent as well as Christianity. Neither Egypt or Turkey, or Israel have that Christian component. So why is one Western and the other not, you do no Judaism is closer to Islam then to Christianity right?


This at least I can agree with.

Because a large part of Israel's population had grandparents or parents who lived in the West and are highly westernized as such. You can see it by how the common person lives in its society, quite a lot like in western countries. You could make a similar argument to even some western coastal parts of Turkey, but only those parts. And if you dug into Turkish politics, you would notice that the westernized parts its society do not support its current course, sadly they get outvoted though.
Likewise, Japan is somewhat westernized culturally, even if it's not Christian.
As you brought up, Western culture is more than just Christianity, the other parts of the mix also count for the total score.

As for Egypt, there just isn't much westernized about it.

 

[King Arts]

I see you didn't read enough Yuri Bezmenov.
Political movements putting the term "liberation" in their name should ring your alarm bells, it's not something they do by accident, it's a very specific term to use for an independence movement.

It may sound similar, but confusing this is a huge mistake.

Yes I am aware that commies have coopted terms like that and in the modern times like 80% of groups that use that language are commie or commie affiliated and it should be a red flag. BUT that by itself is not dispositive, also like I said before you have to prove that Palestinian Christians are like that instead of traditional Orthodox Christians or Catholics like they have been for centuries in that place.

And in very different scale...

Again I'm not saying Muslims good Jews bad. Neither is good, I'm open to the idea that Israel is the lesser evil(it probably is) but why should I support the lesser evil against the greater evil? What would I gain from either, like if Israel granted rights to palestinian Christians who were willing to denounce Hamas and Hezbollah and groups like that then I would be willing to jump on your bandwagon.

Hasidics are kinda controversial among the Israelis already for this and many other reasons, it's a separate issue. It's nothing comparable to the situation with local Muslims though.
Just because they are threatened to act as a dhimmi auxiliary to the Palestinian cause out of fear of what the rest of Palestinians would do to them if they refused doesn't mean you should join them in this act out of sympathy, that would be silly.

I mean Israel dislikes the Hasidics because they don't contribute to the economy or the IDF except through "prayer and study of the torah which makes God look favorably upon the Jewish people" supposedly. They don't really care about Christians.

Because a large part of Israel's population had grandparents or parents who lived in the West and are highly westernized as such. You can see it by how the common person lives in its society, quite a lot like in western countries. You could make a similar argument to even some western coastal parts of Turkey, but only those parts. And if you dug into Turkish politics, you would notice that the westernized parts its society do not support its current course, sadly they get outvoted though.
Likewise, Japan is somewhat westernized culturally, even if it's not Christian.
As you brought up, Western culture is more than just Christianity, the other parts of the mix also count for the total score.

As for Egypt, there just isn't much westernized about it.

Because they lived there that's enough to make them western? So let's say 200 years things are still the same with the Arabs who migrated to Europe they lived there for centuries are they western?

But no the biggest thing you said that was wrong you said Japan is western? What? Are you serious? The land of the rising sun? Tell me does the sun rise in the west? It's as far east as you can go, yes they are wealthy and they are allied to us economically and geopolitically but they aren't western.

 

[Marduk]

Yes I am aware that commies have coopted terms like that and in the modern times like 80% of groups that use that language are commie or commie affiliated and it should be a red flag. BUT that by itself is not dispositive, also like I said before you have to prove that Palestinian Christians are like that instead of traditional Orthodox Christians or Catholics like they have been for centuries in that place.

By accident some may accidentally use the marxist term for an independence war as opposed to any other, sure...
But those who did that by accident probably won't proceed to talk about inclusiveness, apartheid, and being buddies with DSA.
However that's something that would obviously be done by those who did it intentionally.
Palestinian Christians of course have all sorts of political views, but here i've picked a major, notable group who does agree with your view, and is clearly influenced by marxism.
Do you have any better counter-examples? Of course i can't prove that every single Palestinian Christian who has some kind of beef with Israel is a marxist, but come on, demanding infeasible level of proof doesn't count as some kind of "i win" button in an argument. I may aswell ask you to prove that they aren't.

By the way Christians aren't the only people with a commie problem there. It also provides a good example of what's the local commie take on the conflict and how obvious, red flag with hammer and sickle totting commies speak of it.

60 high school seniors refuse to serve in the Israeli army because of the occupation

***

www.haaretz.com

Again I'm not saying Muslims good Jews bad. Neither is good, I'm open to the idea that Israel is the lesser evil(it probably is) but why should I support the lesser evil against the greater evil? What would I gain from either, like if Israel granted rights to palestinian Christians who were willing to denounce Hamas and Hezbollah and groups like that then I would be willing to jump on your bandwagon.

Don't they?

Israel passes legislation to reclassify its Christian citizens as ‘non-Arab’

A new Israeli law creating a legal distinction between Arabs of Christian and Muslim descent passes in the Knesset. Basing the categorisation and status of citizenship on religious and ethnic identifications creates systemic barriers to those citizens who are not deemed acceptable members of the...

www.opendemocracy.net

I mean Israel dislikes the Hasidics because they don't contribute to the economy or the IDF except through "prayer and study of the torah which makes God look favorably upon the Jewish people" supposedly. They don't really care about Christians.

And that's only the surface. This obviously comes with similar... attitude conflicts as with Christians.

Because they lived there that's enough to make them western? So let's say 200 years things are still the same with the Arabs who migrated to Europe they lived there for centuries are they western?

Who knows what will happen in 200 years? Sometimes assimilation works in 100 years. It can also fail to happen in 500. But in this specific example, there certainly was some of it at least.

But no the biggest thing you said that was wrong you said Japan is western? What? Are you serious? The land of the rising sun? Tell me does the sun rise in the west? It's as far east as you can go, yes they are wealthy and they are allied to us economically and geopolitically but they aren't western.

I have used the term "westernized" rather than "western" very intentionally.
They learn western style sciences hard and social alike, they have western style government, they wear western style clothes, they partake in western entertainment, when they don't make entertainment that fits western markets better than current year woke crap made in the West itself.

You couldn't say most of these things about countries that aren't westernized, like North Korea, Pakistan, Egypt, Iran or Jordan.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I hate to agree with @Marduk but Liberation theology (or at least the current ideology) belongs in the dustbin of history.

 

[King Arts]

I hate to agree with @Marduk but Liberation theology (or at least the current ideology) belongs in the dustbin of history.

Umm I'm not defending liberation theology. I was saying not all or even most Palestinian Christians are adherents to it.

 

[ATP]

Umm I'm not defending liberation theology. I was saying not all or even most Palestinian Christians are adherents to it.

Indeed.It is South America sin,not Africa.