Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes

DarthOne said:
That is like saying ‘because many nations take marching orders from the World Economic Forum, the WEF must have a point.’ Aka an appeal to authority fallacy.
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Learn some fucking history. This held true even before the people who started WEF were born.
"WEF doesn't like it so it has to be good" is not some kind of universal argument for defending every imaginable or unimaginable sort of political lunacy other than the specific WEF brand of it.
Unlike you, i refuse to allow WEF to own all the real estate in my head too.
DarthOne said:
Because I don’t live in Russia, ergo I have much less skin that game, therefore I’m less concerned about what it’s doing unless it plans to go Full Nihilist and kill the world or something. I would like it to play nice but that’s ultimately down the Russia and the rest of Europe.
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1973.
DarthOne said:
Ah yes the ‘your just too stupid to know what’s good for you’ fallacy. Listen here Polish, if you and your nation want to support Ukraine, fine. If other European nations want to support Ukraine, fine.

I’m American and we’ve been getting involved with Europe’s dumb shit at the expense of our own nation and people for far too damn long. Also I’m not going to sit here and pretend that Zelenskyy isn’t a corrupt piece of shit like Putin, just so you can have your Russian Derangement and
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Want to use that argument? Fine.
Most of your country disagrees. If Democrats call you a Russian shill, i won't say a word in your favor.
DarthOne said:
dreams of revenge against them for shit that happened decades ago.
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Again, read some fucking history that isn't written by a FSB asset. Russia was making hostile expansionist moves on my country and its allies in the region since Putin is in charge of it.
You and i know damn right that this policy didn't change and won't change, so spare yourself the effort and stop trying to convince me to share in your delusions of Russian establishment's benevolence.
 
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DarthOne said:
That is like saying ‘because many nations take marching orders from the World Economic Forum, the WEF must have a point.’ Aka an appeal to authority fallacy.
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More like "Because the WEF is extremely wealthy, they must know how to make money." It's not an appeal to authority fallacy when the authority is demonstrably an authority on the subject at hand, only when the authority is unrelated (such as an athlete or celebrity trying to be an authority on military strategy).
 
Bacle said:
Got proof 'Zelensky's just as bad as Putin', or are you uncritically parroting a lot of Russian propaganda again?

Because someone else accused him of being a child trafficker, and yet could not provide even one source when asked.

Provide evidence, and not just 'hurr duur, WEF supports Ukraine, thus Ukraine bad', or admit you do care about anything except beng part of the 'contrarian Right' who would say that the 'sky is blue' is fake news if a Dem said it.

I seriously am disgusted by a lot of this forum and people who claimed to be so moral and upright want to throw Ukraine under the bus to save a few pennies, or just because they buy Russian lies.

The GOP and it's base deserve to lose 2024 and beyond that if this is what the American Right has become.
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Marduk said:
Unfortunately for you, absolutely no major political powers in the world agree with that line of thinking, so they may have some kind of a point.
If isolationism is so great, why isn't it done by anyone with a real choice in the matter?
Why not China? Why not UK? Why not even Japan, India or Germany?
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Because people in power love power, and don't give a shit about the cost, whether it involves murdering innocents, dragging out a war, etc. Duh.
Bacle said:
The Ukrainians have gutted the Russian military of over 100k men, destroyed Russian conventional military power for a generation, and asserted their independence, all for the price of 5.6% of the annual US defense budget.

From a purely budgetary perspective supporting Ukraine, with equipment that is mostly already paid for and some help with soldier pay and reconstruction funds, has been a great return on investment with how much of the Russian military they've destroyed and how weak they've shown Russia to be.

Also, most of the world isn't focused on trying to make AnCap fantasies into reality, and realize that the interconnected, globalized world isn't going anywhere.
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None of this advances American interests of freedom and democracy given Zelenski's clampdown on human rights and embrace of nazi battalions, and even if I'll give you showing that Russia was weak was good (it wasn't, I'd rather they be revealed to be weak when it mattered, now they'll go and fix it), Ukraine already showed Russia is weak, there's no reason to keep funding them.

None of this benefits Americans unless they are high up in the MIC.

Seriously, Bacle, it's kinda funny that you realized that woke is bad, only to jump right back into the uniparty with the constant warmongering. Actually, no. It's not kinda funny, it's hilarious. You are NPC'ing war good all over the forum because you fell for the MIC propaganda.

It's one dictatorship invading a kleptocracy. Oh no. Anyways...



What the US should be doing is campaigning for peace to stop the suffering as soon as possible.
 
Abhorsen said:
Because people in power love power, and don't give a shit about the cost, whether it involves murdering innocents, dragging out a war, etc. Duh.
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People in power also love wealth, if it's so costly to not apply isolationism, why aren't they doing it to have lots of wealth to siphon off for themselves?
It's almost as if nations get richer off worldwide influence and favorable trades, rather than not having any of that.
Abhorsen said:
What the US should be doing is campaigning for peace to stop the suffering as soon as possible.
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Why not sing kumbayah and join a pacifist march while at it, traditionally sponsored by KGB?
You know what Lenin called people who fall for such sentiments (which he didn't shy away from spreading himself)?
 
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Marduk said:
People in power also love wealth, if it's so costly to not apply isolationism, why aren't they doing it to have a wealth to siphon off for themselves?
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It's not costly to them. It's costly to the average American. The MIC loves war, it makes them billions. It's costly in lives to the people suffering in war, but those in power are half the world away, so they don't give a shit.
 
Abhorsen said:
It's not costly to them. It's costly to the average American. The MIC loves war, it makes them billions. It's costly in lives to the people suffering in war, but those in power are half the world away, so they don't give a shit.
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Ok, in that case MIC is a sideshow financially, as US political class deals in trillions.
It was ridiculous when hippie left argued for isolationism and whined about MIC in light of Soviet expansionism, and i consider it equally foolish when right or center engages in the same now.
It's just a ridiculous way to view world politics. Some pretty major countries in history tried, and guess what, the lesson they took out of that experience is that they don't do it anymore.
 
DarthOne said:
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Wait, you want me to take Russell Brand seriously?!

Man, no wonder you buy so much Russian propoaganda when you take people like him seriously.
Abhorsen said:
Because people in power love power, and don't give a shit about the cost, whether it involves murdering innocents, dragging out a war, etc. Duh.

None of this advances American interests of freedom and democracy given Zelenski's clampdown on human rights and embrace of nazi battalions, and even if I'll give you showing that Russia was weak was good (it wasn't, I'd rather they be revealed to be weak when it mattered, now they'll go and fix it), Ukraine already showed Russia is weak, there's no reason to keep funding them.

None of this benefits Americans unless they are high up in the MIC.

Seriously, Bacle, it's kinda funny that you realized that woke is bad, only to jump right back into the uniparty with the constant warmongering. Actually, no. It's not kinda funny, it's hilarious. You are NPC'ing war good all over the forum because you fell for the MIC propaganda.

It's one dictatorship invading a kleptocracy. Oh no. Anyways...



What the US should be doing is campaigning for peace to stop the suffering as soon as possible.
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Sorry, am I supposed to take this seriously when you are parroting lies that have been disproven multiple times on this forum?

Like, how many times have me and others gutted pretty much all of these arguments, and yet you keep bringing them back up like some sort of broken gramophone.

Because it is possible to hate the corruption in DC, while admitting support for Ukraine is righteous, and frankly Russia's actions have kinda softened my view of the MIC, because Putin proved the neo-cons right.
 
Didn't the money we sent go to that crypto stuff then straight to democrat and rino campaigns?

I remember seeing stuff like that when they arrested that crypto guy for fraud or something.

I just dislike the whole thing. I don't like Russia because of Putin but Ukraine is the evil globalists money laundering program. I don't want anything to do with either of them.

Especially with every single corrupt asshole destroying my country doing whatever they can to support the conflict.

Really not fond of the "Support this or you're a Russian propagandist" angle either.

Reminds me of all the other bullshit that's happened the last few years. Support current thing or you're a anti vaxxer/fascist/racist/whatever.

I'll make my own mind up, thanks very much. Got a pretty good record too. I just look at what the corrupt evil people support and apply healthy skepticism.
 
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"Guys come on support Ukraine just ignore how corrupt they are and how much money laundering is going on guys come on please guys"

Please shut the fuck up. It's embarassing. UA x RU war is a battle of Oligarchs. There are no good sides. It's fucking Iran-Iraq for the 2020's. The insistance on supporting Ukraine without a single shred of skepticism or any sort of control on the obvious money laundering is absurd. It's pathetic.
 
Sobek said:
"Guys come on support Ukraine just ignore how corrupt they are and how much money laundering is going on guys come on please guys"

Please shut the fuck up. It's embarassing. UA x RU war is a battle of Oligarchs. There are no good sides. It's fucking Iran-Iraq for the 2020's. The insistance on supporting Ukraine without a single shred of skepticism or any sort of control on the obvious money laundering is absurd. It's pathetic.
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You could use exactly the same arguments for not supporting the French in WW1 or the French and Soviets in WW2, or South Korea and Chinese Nationalists in Cold War, and so on.
As the saying goes, ask not if they are bastards, ask if they are our bastards.
Unfortunately the rival powers would be in danger of laughing themselves to death if you expected them to follow this rule too.

For one at least it's not Afghanistan, and the investment in fighting your enemies by proxy actually pays off in said enemies being fought properly.
 
Not really, the support of the French in WW1 was war loans, they were gonna have to be repaid. These are pretty much gifts. WW2 ones were also loans and then the USA joined directly at which point they were allied. South Korea was pretty much a puppet (not meaning that as a insult, just fact) and when they got attack the USA did the correct thing in defending their subject.

The Chinese nationalists one is the closest to being the same here, but even then there was a open understanding it was a China lobby and the whole thing was a LOT more honest. And of course the ammount of money sunk in China is not even close to this grift, and China was nowhere as much of a money laundering scheme.
 
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Marduk said:
You could use exactly the same arguments for not supporting the French in WW1 or the French and Soviets in WW2, or South Korea and Chinese Nationalists in Cold War, and so on.
As the saying goes, ask not if they are bastards, ask if they are our bastards.
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And as far as World War 1 was concerned, that's a valid argument. If the USA had stayed entirely out of it (including economic partisanship), the Central Powers would have won by late 1916, due to the Entente collapsing economically. Then there would have been no Hitler, nor a USSR, which would have rendered the rest of your examples moot.

That being said, once you go down a road, it's almost impossible to turn back. America chose Empire, and if you make that play and lose-- well, then you become Russia, as it is now.

Still, as inescapable as the cold realities of the empire are, I do find the incessant need to sugar-coat it (by some people here) to be tiresome. Just admit that fighting to the last Ukrainian is a geo-political power move to push Russia off this mortal coil (or at least definitively end it as a significant power). Don't try to pretend that there's something moral in any of this.

The morally just position is strict non-interventionism, as Washington and Jefferson advocated ("trade with all nations, alliance with none"), but if you choose to aim for supreme global power instead... then have the courage to admit what you are:

The Empire, cold and ruthless.
 
Sobek said:
Not really, the support of the French in WW1 was war loans, they were gonna have to be repaid. These are pretty much gifts.
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Dude, i recommend a history book.
en.wikipedia.org

France–United States relations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
The debts left over from World War I, whose payment had been suspended since 1931, was renegotiated in the Blum-Byrnes agreement of 1946. The United States forgave all $2.8 billion in debt from the First World War, and gave France a new loan of $650 million. In return French negotiator Jean Monnet set out the French five-year plan for recovery and development.[89] The Marshall Plan gave France $2.3 billion with no repayment. The total of all American grants and credits to France from 1946 to 1953, amounted to $4.9 billion.[90]
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Accounting for inflation, that would be something like $80bn now.

And don't worry about "fighting to the last Ukrainian". If they ever want to surrender, they will. Uncle Sam couldn't even stop Afghans from surrendering.
Skallagrim said:
And as far as World War 1 was concerned, that's a valid argument. If the USA had stayed entirely out of it (including economic partisanship), the Central Powers would have won by late 1916, due to the Entente collapsing economically. Then there would have been no Hitler, nor a USSR, which would have rendered the rest of your examples moot.
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Of course we will never know what the interventionists sitting in your spot in that alternative reality would be bringing up not happening if they prevented Central Powers from winning the war, so, it's impossible to say if that would be a good thing at all.
Who knows, maybe in that alternative reality WW2 would have involved nuclear exchanges.
Skallagrim said:
Still, as inescapable as the cold realities of the empire are, I do find the incessant need to sugar-coat it (by some people here) to be tiresome. Just admit that fighting to the last Ukrainian is a geo-political power move to push Russia off this mortal coil (or at least definitively end it as a significant power). Don't try to pretend that there's something moral in any of this.
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Of course it is, and i don't see a contradiction between morality and "move to push Russia off this mortal coil". It's kinda like ISIL and chicoms. It's both moral and self-interested to oppose them, you don't have to choose.
Skallagrim said:
The morally just position is strict non-interventionism, as Washington and Jefferson advocated ("trade with all nations, alliance with none"), but if you choose to aim for supreme global power instead... then have the courage to admit what you are:

The Empire, cold and ruthless.
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Non-interventionism is not any more of a moral position than pacifism. It technically is a position, but there is nothing moral about it, no matter what its adherents think.
 
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Sobek said:
Please shut the fuck up. It's embarassing. UA x RU war is a battle of Oligarchs. There are no good sides.
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Tell that to the random civilians tortured and/or killed by the Russians. Tell that to the families ripped apart by the Russians who sent their loved ones to Siberia, or to be "adopted" by "good Russian homes." Tell that to the women who were raped and murdered by the Russians. :cautious:

It's fucking Iran-Iraq for the 2020's. The insistance on supporting Ukraine without a single shred of skepticism or any sort of control on the obvious money laundering is absurd. It's pathetic.
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My desire to see money laundering exposed and punished does not mean I do not still support Ukraine in its fight for survival. Just because there are some crooks involved in this does not mean I'm going to throw up my arms and say that Ukraine deserves to get conquered and that Russian expansionism should be ignored. Frankly it's a pretty bad look that you seem to think anyone should, because it looks like you are simply latching on to any excuse to support your per-existing knee-jerk position, while ignoring everything else against it.
 
Bacle said:
The Ukrainians have gutted the Russian military of over 100k men, destroyed Russian conventional military power for a generation, and asserted their independence, all for the price of 5.6% of the annual US defense budget.

From a purely budgetary perspective supporting Ukraine, with equipment that is mostly already paid for and some help with soldier pay and reconstruction funds, has been a great return on investment with how much of the Russian military they've destroyed and how weak they've shown Russia to be.

Also, most of the world isn't focused on trying to make AnCap fantasies into reality, and realize that the interconnected, globalized world isn't going anywhere.
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And, why is the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, the obilteration of entire cities, and the potential freezing of europeans across winter worth it, for the damage to a nation that was only a strategic threat through WMD's?


Seriously. Russia wasn't, and isn't, a serious threat to the US, or even most of Europe. They were a regional power at best.




(Unrelated note. Where have all the good memes gone? I spent 1/2 an hour, and found crap. I think I need to up my Search game)
 
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