It's simply wrong to behave in such a way, there is no justification. Feeling like society is unfair and cruel to you is no excuse for you to be unfair and cruel to others. And connecting that to the "Golden Rule" is sociopathic moral perversion.
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MGTOW, Minimalism, dating and the Establishment reaction.
- Thread starter Agent23
- Start date
It's actually the silver rule treat others as they treat you. And it's the natural result of people cheating the system and an effective tactic in game theory. The golden rule works in functional societys in disfunctional societys you go with silver.
In a completely toxic one it's do onto others before they do unto you.
Moral standards aren't about what "works".
Ixian
Well-known member
Sociopathic? Its basic logic, if you are consistently treated in a certain way, its only a matter of time before you start treating others the same. If those MGTOW individuals who follow the "I don't owe a woman anything for my time" philosophy are sociopaths, then so are the vast majority of women.
Now, I personally feel that relationships are a partnership with defined expectations for men and women within the context of the relationship. Thats how I and my wife live our lives, but that isn't how most women who have grown up on feminist "girl power" live their lives, and it's reached a point in the west where we are seeing men decide that if the game is rigged they either aren't going to play, or play by the same rules that women use (IE extracting value from the relationship as opposed to building value, which is what most feminist women do), to simply dismiss it as sociopathic ignores why this is happening.
I'm saying the mindset of "I feel like society and the whole other gender mistreats me and screws me over, so I'm going to mistreat and screw over society in return as much as I can get away with in return" is sociopathic, and connecting that mindset to the Golden Rule is a sociopathic perversion of the rule. You can explain their motivations all you want, it's no justification.
Or, to put it another way:
Moral standards were created In the first place because they do work. The problem is society isn't punishing the bad actors so you get sub optimal results.
Ixian
Well-known member
I'm saying the mindset of "I feel like society and the whole other gender mistreats me and screws me over, so I'm going to mistreat and screw over society in return as much as I can get away with in return" is sociopathic, and connecting that mindset to the Golden Rule is a sociopathic perversion of the rule. You can explain their motivations all you want, it's no justification.
Or, to put it another way:
Well like it or not, it's happening and isn't likely to stop as far as I can see.
I'm not sure of a full proof solution unfortunately.
Moral standards exist so that we can know when we do wrong, when we do evil. That doesn't change based on whether or not things are "working". If a society is going against moral standards, it's an evil society.
King Arts
Well-known member
Like modern western society? So not caring about an evil society is not sociopathic.
"Not caring" isn't the issue. The issue is becoming an active participant in the same evil the culture around you is committing. You don't have the moral right to do that.
King Arts
Well-known member
What exactly do you mean by active participant in the evil of the culture? I thought people were talking about either treating marriage/relationships like contracts/business relationships, or just being a NEET/wellfare queen and sucking up wellfare and societies resources. Those are not inherently immoral.
I mean behavior like men wanting absolutely no commitment to women, but still sleeping around with them.
Reward people for good behavior and you will get more or it. Punish them for good behavior and you will get less of it. If the incentive structure is broken then your going to get sub optimal results.
King Arts
Well-known member
Oh, yeah I can say that is bad. Christian morality says fornication is bad. Sex outside of marriage is wrong.
Robovski
Well-known member
If you act like you want commitment and are not, you are a liar. If you are never seeking commitment and do not act like you want it then it is up to the other party to take that at face value and not try to be "the one that changes him".
I'm recently remarried but I don't blame men for being uninterested in hitching themselves to a lot of the women available. I am glad I found my wife and I feel my first marriage was probably a mistake despite the few happy years I had. For those not giving up, being diligent and forthright but cautious goes a long way.
I'm recently remarried but I don't blame men for being uninterested in hitching themselves to a lot of the women available. I am glad I found my wife and I feel my first marriage was probably a mistake despite the few happy years I had. For those not giving up, being diligent and forthright but cautious goes a long way.
posh-goofiness
Well-known member
As the old MGTOW proverb goes, it's not what you've done for her, it's what you've done for her lately. The problem with commitment is that she can, at any time, just decide that your previous commitment isn't enough. It happens often enough that men can see this happening in real time and in absolutely horrific ways. The modern woman embodies too much risk and that's just not going to change any time this generation or the next or the next. Saying men need to play the same old game with the traditional rules of commitment and fidelity is not only a losing proposition it's a destructive one. Men are shit on enough as it is and asking them to walk into the meat grinder and still be happy about it? Lol no.
And here's the problem with the MGTOW mindset I've been talking about, acting like "modern women" are all the same. There are women who value commitment more than momentary satisfaction and gratification. But again, you need to work on yourself and value the things those women value, put yourself in social environments where those sorts of women can be found ie church, in order to be attractive to them in the first place. But a lot of modern men aren't interested in doing that. They end up only attracting the kind of women they deserve.
Its not the women its the incentive structure, our current legal and cultural frame work encourages women to act badly.
When their small children their treated like princesses, through out their scholastic years their given preferential treatment while being told their 'opressed' then they get into the much harder real world and are told to prioritize a career and job over family. Finally in their 30s a lot of them decide to get into a relationship.
And most of them don't have the skillset to make a relationship work, and after a life time of being told not to settle for less most likely resent the man their with even if he is a good man. And if they divorce this man they get half his stuff and get subidized by the government.
If you want to change things you have to get the government out of peoples relationships. You have to match power with responsibility. If some one wants full custody then they have to pay all of the bills for the children. You have to stop supporting single mothers with any fincial aid.
For roughtly 10 years a whole lot of single mothers will in fact suffer, but then they will be forced to get over their egos have realistic thoughts about who they can have and then invest in their relationships.
None of this is hard, fucking cave women have had successful relationships it takes a whole lot of state power to make things as purposefully retarded as they are now.
So you find women who will be loyal and committed in spite of the "incentives" not to be. They exist. This is a victim mentality, acting like the problem is with the system and everyone else and how that needs to be fixed before you can act properly and honorably.
I just outlined what the problem is and how to fix it. The solution actually requires less resources then what we as a society are paying now and requires less effort because all the government has to do is nothing.
I get there are good woman out there but I kind of prioritize unfucking our civilization so we don't collapse.
Your tax dollars are being spent to prop up other people's bad decisions are you really happy about that.