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MGTOW, Minimalism, dating and the Establishment reaction.

colorles

Well-known member
lol at "artificial wombs". With that and modifying babies in the womb, it's easy to see how that would mold into a nightmare fuel trans-human ant colony slave dystopia

As to MGTOW in general and male/female mating dynamics, it is important to remember that monogomy first came about in neolithic times as a means to keep ever growing agricultural societies stable and functional. Because, compared to paleolithic tribes where an alpha male could mate all the available females because all the other males would have to accept this just to survive (the other option was a group of younger males just going out onto the frontier on their own. the Indo-Aryan koryos being an example, likely a large contributing factor to the Indo-Aryan expansions), in larger agricultural societies, if most of the males did not have access to female mates, they would revolt and have their leaders' heads on spears. Thus, wise leaders realized that giving the majority of men access to female mates, creates a stable and functioning larger society.

This worked out for men in that it gave a larger percentage of men than ever before, access to female mates. However, for females, all it did was move more of them out of the harem of very powerful men, and force more of them into what was basically servitude and birthing children to more average men in exchange for a roof over their head. This goes against female biological drives. However, since this move to monogamous societies was necessary for larger societies to grow and the increasing specialization of labor and tools and technologies and, by extension, the technological, logistic, and martial ability of said society to out compete other societies and to expand into new lands and resources, this societal structure was positively selected for.

At a biological level, this was always against female imperative. But they had no choice but to accept it. But note: why did societies move into monogomous structures in the first place? because, simply put, the majority of men in growing agricultural societies were not willing to work, fight, and die for a society, without access to female mates and reproduction. As societies industrialized, the same could be said.

However, nowadays, working American men are being cucked. And the government has taken the place of the caregiver and provider to modern American women. Ergo: women do not need to settle down with a man they probably do not like, in exchange for a roof over their head anymore. The government - or, should i say, the tax dollars of millions of random men she will probably never see or interact with - will provide a roof over her head. And, to add on to it, legal structure actually incentivizes females to only settle with men they do not like, for the sake of financially fucking them over. Or even if they get with men they do like, they can still legally fuck him over. The vast majority of the legal and social power, but very little of the responsibility of keeping society running, is now in female hands.

Although I will say, amongst younger "zoomer" girls, less and less of them are even bothering with men at all. Yeah, some get a man or two to know them up and then mooch off of child welfare benefits for having more and more kids. But many girls are just not bothering with men at all. They work simple jobs, and live together. More and more of them are bi-sexual. They only have eyes for other girls...except the occasional hot, athletic, high powered man. Which brings me to my next point: younger American "zoomer" girls are, with more and more frequency, instinctively forming harems. That is, they form large groups of other bi-sexual girls, they all are in "open relationships" with each other, and they work simple jobs, get some government benefits, or both...and often live with each other (so, instead of a man and women living together pooling resources, you have multiple girls living together pooling resources). The result is you have an ever increasing amount of young girls that not only do not need men in their immediate vicinity, they are happy without them. At least in the short term anyways

However: the second an attractive, athletic, high powered man comes into the picture - you know, the kind of man who has that "presence" to him - all of these girls start throwing themselves at him. They want his attention; they want to be loved by him; they want to have his babies. And they do this as a group - as a harem. This is the only kind of man that truly turns them on - as biology dictates it should. This type of man biological triggers the "tribal alpha" criteria that turns girls on, whether they consciously know it or not.

Very few men fit that criteria. There are a lot of try hards out there, all those "game" sites to "up your game to get with women". lol. You either have "it", or you don't. And girls - particularly if they are in groups around a bunch of other girls feeling the same things - can recognize "it" in mere moments.

The result? Very few men are getting with younger American women. The small percentage that are, can "slay", have some threesomes, some orgies, or just go from girl to girl. And because they can do so, many of these men that have "it", do so. Although, even then, there is still risk in that these girls have the legal system on their side. And not all men are willing to take the risk of having their lives fucked with over a bunch of sex. Not to mention STDs.

All the meanwhile? the majority of the working male cuck populace continues working and supporting all of this. And here is the key point: why did societies switch to monogomy in the first place? Because the majority of the working male populace was not willing to work, support and die for a system that didn't directly benefit them with access to females and continuing their genetic lines. The only reason this change happened to begin with, is because men made it happen.

Some things never change
 

posh-goofiness

Well-known member
I've met people who have straight up said "they have no real use for them." One guy in particular pretty much said he only gave me the time of day because I was a man. And this was considering the fact we agreed with each other politically for the most part. It was on YouTube so maybe the guy was just being a edgelord but it's hard to tell parody from reality anymore.
Just to be clear here, because this guy doesn't want to interact with women, that means he hates women?


Moving reply here so we don't get whacked for off topic.
 
Just to be clear here, because this guy doesn't want to interact with women, that means he hates women?


Moving reply here so we don't get whacked for off topic.

When you're willing to judge people by what's between their legs as opposed to what they actually believe I'm not sure what else to call that. It may not be on the same level of hate as wanting to murder someone by throwing them off a building but it is still hate.
 

Simonbob

Well-known member
When you're willing to judge people by what's between their legs as opposed to what they actually believe I'm not sure what else to call that. It may not be on the same level of hate as wanting to murder someone by throwing them off a building but it is still hate.
Or fear.

We don't generally hold people with phobias up as Hitler. Why hold a guy with a terrible past up as a hater?



Or, he doesn't have much sex drive, and his research suggests it's not worth the effort. (That usually comes with some past pain, though.)



Hate isn't the only reason to avoid a group. Fear's more common.
 

posh-goofiness

Well-known member
When you're willing to judge people by what's between their legs as opposed to what they actually believe I'm not sure what else to call that. It may not be on the same level of hate as wanting to murder someone by throwing them off a building but it is still hate.
We call it freedom of association? I don't know, just seems like you're making the leap from one to the other.
 
Or fear.

We don't generally hold people with phobias up as Hitler. Why hold a guy with a terrible past up as a hater?



Or, he doesn't have much sex drive, and his research suggests it's not worth the effort. (That usually comes with some past pain, though.)



Hate isn't the only reason to avoid a group. Fear's more common.

Personally I think for us at least fear has been more of a hindrance than a help.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
We call it freedom of association? I don't know, just seems like you're making the leap from one to the other.
I mean yeah you can associate with who you want. But if you are banning groups on basis of race or sex for no good reason there is a decent chance you are racist or sexiest.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
And if you have a good reason, as far as you can tell?
Then it’s not racist or sexist. For example avoiding people of a racial minority in a ghetto area makes sense as it more likely to be crime. With women if you think that the sexes should e kept separate until marriage because you want to cut down on chances of fornication that’s also cool.
 

Simonbob

Well-known member
Then it’s not racist or sexist. For example avoiding people of a racial minority in a ghetto area makes sense as it more likely to be crime. With women if you think that the sexes should e kept separate until marriage because you want to cut down on chances of fornication that’s also cool.

We used to do a certain amount of that kind of thing, and often, things were better in a number of ways.

They all came from the same premise, though, and that's that there are differences between groups. And if men aren't women, and women aren't men, then it makes sense to treat them differently.
 

colorles

Well-known member
Reward people for good behavior and you will get more or it. Punish them for good behavior and you will get less of it. If the incentive structure is broken then your going to get sub optimal results.

Its not the women its the incentive structure, our current legal and cultural frame work encourages women to act badly.

When their small children their treated like princesses, through out their scholastic years their given preferential treatment while being told their 'opressed' then they get into the much harder real world and are told to prioritize a career and job over family. Finally in their 30s a lot of them decide to get into a relationship.

And most of them don't have the skillset to make a relationship work, and after a life time of being told not to settle for less most likely resent the man their with even if he is a good man. And if they divorce this man they get half his stuff and get subidized by the government.

If you want to change things you have to get the government out of peoples relationships. You have to match power with responsibility. If some one wants full custody then they have to pay all of the bills for the children. You have to stop supporting single mothers with any fincial aid.

For roughtly 10 years a whole lot of single mothers will in fact suffer, but then they will be forced to get over their egos have realistic thoughts about who they can have and then invest in their relationships.

None of this is hard, fucking cave women have had successful relationships it takes a whole lot of state power to make things as purposefully retarded as they are now.

The central problem is that we need to get the government out of peoples relationships period.

Get rid of Alimony get rid of child support if you have custody then your fincially responsible for the child in question, do a one time devision of assets after the divorce.

The central problem of society is power with out the responsbility to go with it and responsbility with out the power to deal with said responsibility. Fix that and you fix a whole lot of other issues.

I quoted these posts because, while the post I made a while back focused more on nature than anything else, Cherico's posts emphasize that what is happening with male/female dynamics in modern western nations, is being intentionally done. I know you all are probably aware of that, but it is important to remember to not be too hard on yourselves.

And certainly never envy any of the men sleeping around with dozens of girls - if they themselves wern't so addicted to the drug rush that is sex, they would realize just how gross their lifestyle is, and just how gross the lifestyle of the girls they are sleeping around with are. At the end of the day the only thing women have that men need from them, is a womb. Don't lose sight of that.

But, lastly: don't think of females as "evil". They're not. They just have different biological imperatives, different instincts and a different way of thinking and sensing the world because of it. Emphasis on the word different. Males and females are different. Men and women being encouraged to hate each other on the internet and beyond will not solve anything. Learning to better understand the imperatives and ways of thinking of the opposite gender, however, will provide clarity and humility - and an understanding of how the enemy exploits these biological differences and sows discord throughout society.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Just to be clear here, because this guy doesn't want to interact with women, that means he hates women?


Moving reply here so we don't get whacked for off topic.
Yes. Him not looking at women as individuals, and instead grouping them up and treating them all the same way because of their gender, is the clearest step too far. Stereotyping is fine and can be useful, but not being able to overcome a stereotype give individual knowledge of a specific person is definitely one of the bad -isms, namely collectivism.
 

Simonbob

Well-known member
Yes. Him not looking at women as individuals, and instead grouping them up and treating them all the same way because of their gender, is the clearest step too far. Stereotyping is fine and can be useful, but not being able to overcome a stereotype give individual knowledge of a specific person is definitely one of the bad -isms, namely collectivism.

You obviously haven't been hurt by enough women.
 
. At the end of the day the only thing women have that men need from them, is a womb. Don't lose sight of that.

See this statement right here is what confuses the heck out of me.

IF the only thing that is beneficial of a woman (IE needed) is reproduction while the rest is a net zero at best and a liability/loss at worst, why not find a way to simply reproduce without the need of a woman?
 

colorles

Well-known member
Yes. Him not looking at women as individuals, and instead grouping them up and treating them all the same way because of their gender, is the clearest step too far. Stereotyping is fine and can be useful, but not being able to overcome a stereotype give individual knowledge of a specific person is definitely one of the bad -isms, namely collectivism.

Women are no more "all the same", than men are "all the same". Different personalities, different interests, etc. With that said: Men and Women are in fact wired differently, so to speak. And it is something that should be openly acknowledged and socially understood (and was, for much of human history).

On another note, a youtube channel I actually like that sometimes discusses this kind of stuff is Dry Creek Wrangler School. He's not a "MGTOW guy" or a "manosphere guy" or "alpha life coach/cringe lord" kind of guy. Just a middle aged cowboy with some life experience:

 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
You obviously haven't been hurt by enough women.
You don't know my life. Still, I've been hurt by people. Womankind as a group didn't all decide to hurt me (they can't agree on anything, how would they agree on that? /jk).

Take the LGBTQ squad. If I see someone advertise that they in it, I tend to immediately stereotype them. But then if I get to know them, and they aren't like that, I can use that further info to better classify them as people I'd like to know (Yes, I know I fall square into the middle of the stereotype on this platform lol, but I'm also definitely not a leftist).

If you can't overcome the initial stereotype, then one is definitely a collectivist of some sort, a person who judges another, despite having other info, on their skin/sex/whatever.
 

Simonbob

Well-known member
Say it with me.

Men are not women. Woman are not men.

That's reality. Reality is collectivist. Indivduals exist within groups. (I do agree, everybody's an individual, but, we can't live that way. It just doesn't work.)


As for stereotyping, there's limits on brain power. It happens because, amongst other reasons, we literally can't know everybody as individuals. Weather we like it or not, we have to stereotype, we cant exist any other way.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Say it with me.

Men are not women. Woman are not men.

That's reality. Reality is collectivist. Indivduals exist within groups. (I do agree, everybody's an individual, but, we can't live that way. It just doesn't work.)


As for stereotyping, there's limits on brain power. It happens because, amongst other reasons, we literally can't know everybody as individuals. Weather we like it or not, we have to stereotype, we cant exist any other way.
I'm not saying stereotyping is bad. I'm saying that deciding to remain with your initial opinion despite learning individualized info or refusing to learn individualized info if it's easy & harmless to get is bad.

Obviously, men and women are different. It's one of the biggest differences in humanity. One becomes an -ist when you refuse to see an individual as anything but a member of a group.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Or just take every women as different....
I thought my wife was gonna friend zone me while we were dating but here I am married due to prior experience with womwn.. I still gave it my all and hoped she would be diffrent.
She was.

Don't stereotype them, if they arnt willing to do it to you.
If they are then fuck them.
 

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